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Vaportrail

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NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« on: Jun 02, 2003, 12:37 »
Hello,  I am curious if any or all of the other nukes in the country are pounding a new Access Authorization package at their employees?  I am at Exelon's Quad plant and am questioning the need for the information they are demanding.  We are being told that in order to maintain unescorted access, we need to submit to all the normal background stuff - but now they are adding credit checks and personal interview authorizations for family, friends, neighbors, and any other aquaintences they see fit.  The papers reference an NRC order dated 1/7/03 which points to the 9/11 attacks as the reason for these stepped up and intrusive investigations.
Please respond with what, if any, new requirements you are being asked to submit to.  Also, add what you think of these new requirements.  Shouldn't we be outraged at these requests?  Thanks for your time.  

PS  Sacrificing freedoms for a false sense of security is not the American Way!

duke99301

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 02, 2003, 12:42 »
its clear you never worked a DOE site when regan was in office he made it a living heck for people under a cloak of NS needs to bad it can get worse if you got bones to hide.

RAD-GHOST

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 02, 2003, 04:26 »
Vaportrail... Surprising to hear they are just getting around to this.  The credit check thing has been around since the early 90's!  Peer & Spin off references also.  As you said, Freedom versus Security.  This is a sign of the times and will probably get worst in the future.  Since employment is a privilage, not a constitutional right, failure to submit will probably put you out the door!  What should really scare you is the fact that some clerk, wishing to be the next hero of the millenium, will be reviewing your paperwork!  God help you if something stupid pops up in your background, like a case of identify theft or a past associate with a less than perfect background!  Hell, if you manifested the millions of laws in this country,(  Federal, state and local ), even the Pope would be guilty of breaking three a day!  As a summation, they are going to do whatever they want and you will have to comply

I was at a plant in the early 90's, when 10 CFR 26 was instituted at the site.  One day a lot of long term workers didn't show.  They were discharged for past problems, which were as much as two decades old!  Seem's their background didn't meet the new " Revised" Utility Security Guidelines!  It didn't matter if they had been on site for twenty + years!

It's not just the Nukes!  Most employers will do a criminal background and credit check.  Most apartment complex's also do the same!  

Austria

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 02, 2003, 04:45 »
Yep, seems we have to give up a certain amount of privacy to be able to work. Unfortunately, it seems we are losing more and more of our right to privacy in the name of fighting terrorism. Some things I've read in Time and Newsweek magazines recently regarding hassles people have gone through under the new "Patriot Act" is a bit scary. Being detained and questioned for hours at airports and having no legal way to appeal the status of being on some type of "watch list".  >:(

About the only thing we can do at this point is to request  a copy of any and all information obtained by the utility company while performing a background check. As far as I know we still have that right and it should be stated on the consent form we sign.

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 02, 2003, 04:59 »
Such is the age we live in.  Increased security checks do require giving up a degree of privacy and liberty.  But many of these facilities don't want to be the one that had someone slip through the cracks.
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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 02, 2003, 05:44 »
We had to do this earlier this year at Callaway.  Bottom line was, no consent, no access.  Union lawyers checked on it & there wasn't much one could do but complain about it & fill out the forms.

As Austria said, you have the right to request copies of the information the get while doing the check.  I did & so did most others.

Just another of the joys of working nuke. [smiley=deal.gif]
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littlebittime

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 02, 2003, 06:25 »
well If it gives you all any consolation... it's not just nukes...

I'm a volunteer at our local high school and had to submit to a very similar background check  - interview with a shrink, fingerprints run by the sheriff, they were allowed to chit chat with my neighbors and relatives, signed/notarized letters from teachers and some friends stating their opinion of my parenting skills, all of which I had to pay for btw -  in order to be allowed to volunteer as a mentor with high school kids.  

It was ok as far as I was concerned... at least I know the school district is checking the people my kids are spending time with.  I know it's not fool proof, but it's the best they can do.  

I suppose you all could view it in the same light... at least the companies are doing what they feel is needed at the time in order to make sure you all are safe... and the plant is safe from folks who might want to cause harm.  Not a fool proof method... but you work with what you have at the time.




rlbinc

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 02, 2003, 10:21 »
I had a background performed at Monticello for access to the Training Building, which is a mile outside the fence.

I guess I could have taken over the Simulator, or something.

As a contractor, you should expect Criminal and Credit History, reference checks, fitness for duty screening, and the occasional pat down or vehicle search. I'm thinking PADS ought to be able to handle that sort of requirement, companies don't necessarily trust each others sources.

In short, the same treatment they give their own workers.

We have to keep the industry safe - remember the security people can't "profile", and  check only Muslim males between 18 and 35. The Anti-American Communist Lawyers Union (ACLU) would have a fit.

That's why the typical 80 year old white haired lady in a wheelchair always seems to get her luggage ripped apart at the Airport.




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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 02, 2003, 11:43 »
The secure America bit does seem to have gone a bit far. If you have bad credit,no job,that's outrageous.It's even more chilling when problems you may have had 20 years ago could jeopardize your job now.20 years ago a lot of young males were in there teens or early 20's.You've got testosterone levels out of this world at that time in your life. Drinking,barfights,just outlandish attitudes,so how should you be punished now that you're older and more mature.The REAGAN era made just about everyone broke,except the rich.I served in the military ,and it still doesn't help with the silly rules,they are implementing. GIVE IT A BREAK,WE'RE NOT THE PROBLEM.SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT TO WORK. [smiley=hop_fire.gif]
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Offline Rain Man

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 02, 2003, 12:14 »
Quote


We have to keep the industry safe - remember the security people can't "profile", and  check only Muslim males between 18 and 35. The Anti-American Communist Lawyers Union (ACLU) would have a fit.


Many moons ago a friend in plant security related to me that a nuclear power plant's biggest security headache was "internal sabotage".  They have much more on their plates these days but the internal threat is probably still a significant issue.
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Offline Rain Man

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 02, 2003, 12:18 »
Quote
The secure America bit does seem to have gone a bit far. If you have bad credit,no job,that's outrageous.It's even more chilling when problems you may have had 20 years ago could jeopardize your job now.20 years ago a lot of young males were in there teens or early 20's.You've got testosterone levels out of this world at that time in your life. Drinking,barfights,just outlandish attitudes,so how should you be punished now that you're older and more mature.The REAGAN era made just about everyone broke,except the rich.I served in the military ,and it still doesn't help with the silly rules,they are implementing. GIVE IT A BREAK,WE'RE NOT THE PROBLEM.SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT TO WORK. [smiley=hop_fire.gif]


I guess that cigarette I got caught smoking in the bathroom in 9th grade and went on my "permanent record" is going to come back and haunt me.
"Giving power and money to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenaged boys." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Offline uRiaL

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 02, 2003, 12:50 »
Rainman,it wouldn't surprise me,they're losing their grip on reality. (0) (0)
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Austria

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 02, 2003, 03:07 »
Quote
If you have bad credit,no job,that's outrageous.It's even more chilling when problems you may have had 20 years ago could jeopardize your job now.20 years ago a lot of young males were in there teens or early 20's.You've got testosterone levels out of this world at that time in your life. Drinking,barfights,just outlandish attitudes,so how should you be punished now that you're older and more mature.[smiley=hop_fire.gif]


Well, I guess there's hope for us all then.
George W. Bush (you know...the president) was arrested 3 times including a DUI that he plead guilty to.  (he was in his 30's) And Dick Cheney (you know...the vice-president) has TWO DUI arrests on his record. And hey, nothing against them but I figure that if these two guys can be trusted to control the worlds largest military (and associated nuclear hardware) with that kind of stuff on their records then regular workin' stiffs like us should have some recourse to amend for some of our past indiscretions. Fair is fair. For ALL of us.  ;)

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 02, 2003, 04:52 »
The only disturbing thing to me is the part where they ask you your race on the questionaire.
At DC Cook, I simply refused to give an answer.  The guy in badging told me I had to answer.  I told him that I didn't HAVE to do anything, and he could give me the badge or not.
He gave me the badge.
At Monticello, I answered "C".  I assume that the screener understood this to mean "Caucaisian".  In reality, it simply meant "C", and I intended to say so if asked.

Here's the thing:  There is in all actuality no such thing as "race".  All human beings belong to the same species.  Our DNA is unique to each individual person (except identical twins).  Likewise, skin color, hair texture, eye color, thickness of lips, shape of eyes, broadness of nose, stature...etc.  are not exclusive to any one "race", nor are they uniformly common among any single "race".

Attempts to identify a person's ethnicity by DNA and statistics is essentially flawed because all the participants in the control group are "self-identified".  That is; somebody took a sample and asked them what group they belonged to.

Now, I can give a sample and say that I am a Native American.  Technically, this is true since I was born on one of the American continents.  I am not to my knowledge a descendant of any of the aboriginal tribes of America, known commonly as Indians.  But, I could say that I was and nobody could definitively prove me wrong.
I could just as easily say that I am African American, Asian, Hispanic, or anything else I want.  Who can say that I'm wrong?

In my opinion, they have no need for this information.  They can't use it to identify me, so what can they use it for without breaking the law?


Here's a trick; ask Mariah Carey what "race" she belongs to.  Being adopted, I bet she doesn't even know.  Her physical characteristics (other than being totally FINE) could place her in any one or more racial groups.  Be careful about making an assumption.  You could be wrong.  An Irish name does not guarantee Irish ancestry.

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #14 on: Jun 02, 2003, 06:30 »
Glad I am not as paranoid as most of you.  Why is it so hard to understand when a countrys security is at stake?  Change has been something of a hardship for most people.  I have noticed it here at GGNS, and I notice it here on Nukeworker.  What are you gonna do when you have bitched your bitch, and there is nothing left to do except turn into an Israel type of country?  No more bitchin'then.  And the response I expect is Privacy is our right and freedom.  Well, go back to an earlier post;  employment is a privelage.  If you don't like it, there is a Walmart on almost every street corner.   =;

Offline Brigrat

Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #15 on: Jun 02, 2003, 10:26 »
I get the feeling that no one on this site works in Security, perhaps I can help with the confusion.  The NRC recently released an Access Authorization order which  had many requirements, most of which are safeguards information.  The biggest threat after the terrorist threat is of course the insider threat (according to the NRC).  The only way to account for the insider threat without disrupting the hell out of day to day business of a plant, is to stregthen the depth of the access authorization process.  We all admit that the nuclear industry is about the best industry to be involved in in the country, and now in order to maintain our positions in arguably the best industry in the country, we have to answer some important questions.  The answers are generally maintained in very secure locations, and usually the results of a background investigatrion are up for interpataion by the access authorization supervisor.  If you truly made a mistake in your past, and aren't really a bad person, the opportunity is there for your "charges" to be adjudicated.  If you have a pattern of "Bad" behavior, you will probably end up working at a fossil plant in the future.  I am not saying this is right, all I am saying, is really the plants have no choice in the matter, this is an NRC thing.  THe plants just want to do their best to comply with the new orders.   So let us do our bests to help out our employers.

PS
does this sound like managements answer, because it probably is, Wink, Wink.

Austria

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 02, 2003, 11:56 »
Quote
Glad I am not as paranoid as most of you.  Why is it so hard to understand when a countrys security is at stake?  Change has been something of a hardship for most people.  I have noticed it here at GGNS, and I notice it here on Nukeworker.  What are you gonna do when you have bitched your bitch, and there is nothing left to do except turn into an Israel type of country?  No more bitchin'then.  And the response I expect is Privacy is our right and freedom.  Well, go back to an earlier post;  employment is a privelage.  If you don't like it, there is a Walmart on almost every street corner.   =;


No one said anything about being paranoid azkidd. And if nobody bitches and looks out for themselves and others, then this country eventually will turn into an Israeli type of state.
We can look back at the fifties and McCarthyism and be shocked that such a thing could happen in our country. Paranoia ran rampant in the government. The less people pay attention to what's going on and just sit back and take what's given to us the less it becomes a government "by the people". It is our right and our DUTY to question what goes on and why. Participation of the people is essential to a democratic form of government. These days though, it seems all to easy to just write someone off as "un-American" or paranoid when they start asking questions about what's going on or voice an opposing view to the government.

I am sure that most of us are quite comfortable with the security checks that we need to go through for employment. However, that hardly means that we should not question something that appears new to us. Understanding and reason gained through a questioning attitude (questioning attitude...sound familiar to all of us HP types?) is something many people simply prefer over blind obedience.
Availing myself of the 'privilege' to work does not mean I forfeit the right to understand the requirements for employment.

Peace.  ;)

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 03, 2003, 04:35 »
personally, i have been uncomfortable with the nuke's security questionaires ever since they began asking for your soc number... my card used to say (the original that i lost, darnit) "not to be used for identification", and when asked for the number, i would block the number with my thumb and point that phrase out to the security person and place the card back into my wallet.  made for some uncomfortable interviews, to be sure.
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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 03, 2003, 04:58 »
Quote


And hey, nothing against them but I figure that if these two guys can be trusted to control the worlds largest military (and associated nuclear hardware) with that kind of stuff on their records then regular workin' stiffs like us should have some recourse to amend for some of our past indiscretions. Fair is fair. For ALL of us.  ;)


All men are created equal....just in different tax brackets.
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Austria

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 03, 2003, 05:32 »
Quote
personally, i have been uncomfortable with the nuke's security questionaires ever since they began asking for your soc number... my card used to say (the original that i lost, darnit) "not to be used for identification", and when asked for the number, i would block the number with my thumb and point that phrase out to the security person and place the card back into my wallet.  made for some uncomfortable interviews, to be sure.



Like you, SloGlo, I lost my original card years ago. I did order a new one last year and it no longer states that it is not for identification. ( I do remember that, though) Instead, the information that comes with the card states, in part:
"Some private organizations use (SSN's) for recordkeeping purposes. Such use is niether required nor prohibited by federal law. The use of your (SSN) by such an organization for it's own records is a private matter between you and the organization."
It further states that:  "Any Federal, State, or local government agency that asks for your number must tell you: wether giving it is voluntary or mandatory, its authority for requesting the number, and how the number will be used. "

Yea, these are the kind of things I look up when I have too much time on my hands.  :P

Anyways, it seems that just about anything can be used for ID these days. SS cards, credit cards, phone and utility bills, etc...
I guess it is up to us as individuals to see that these requests are reasonable and that the information is used responsibly.




littlebittime

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 03, 2003, 10:08 »
Quote



Like you, SloGlo, I lost my original card years ago. I did order a new one last year and it no longer states that it is not for identification. ( I do remember that, though) Instead, the information that comes with the card states, in part:
"Some private organizations use (SSN's) for recordkeeping purposes. Such use is niether required nor prohibited by federal law. The use of your (SSN) by such an organization for it's own records is a private matter between you and the organization."
It further states that:  "Any Federal, State, or local government agency that asks for your number must tell you: wether giving it is voluntary or mandatory, its authority for requesting the number, and how the number will be used. "

Yea, these are the kind of things I look up when I have too much time on my hands.  :P

Anyways, it seems that just about anything can be used for ID these days. SS cards, credit cards, phone and utility bills, etc...
I guess it is up to us as individuals to see that these requests are reasonable and that the information is used responsibly.





It also states that "private organizations can not get information from your social security record just because they know the number."  

do you think that's true?  And if it is... why are they always telling people not to give out the number?   That's a little confusing huh?

rlbinc

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 03, 2003, 11:25 »
Quote


It also states that "private organizations can not get information from your social security record just because they know the number."  

do you think that's true?  And if it is... why are they always telling people not to give out the number?   That's a little confusing huh?


They may not be able to get information from the US Government, but Equifax and TRW are a different story.

A $15 credit check provides addresses and account info, which contributes to the crimes of Identity Theft and Credit Fraud. The criminal needs to provide a name, an address, and an SSN.

The credit agencies are required to get your approval prior to releasing information, but evidently, that is an inadequate barrier to crime.

That is one good reason to never give out ANY account or SSN information to unknown or unreliable entities.

(Might want to do a background on them first.... :)    )

I don't even provide my references addresses unless specifically asked, and then only with permission of those involved.


Chimera

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 04, 2003, 08:34 »
Back in the 60's we complained about the information the government wanted to do our DOD security background checks for the military.  In the 70's, we complained about the information needed to do our AEC security background checks.  I've been in trouble many times for being obstinate with security at various nuclear plants.  This is all my way of saying I agree with most of the comments in this particular thread.

However, where I'm working now - ostensibly in the nuclear industry subject to the provisos of the NRC and the CFRs - some of the employees sit in the parking lot during their breaks or during lunch doing crack, grass, or coke.  Some of them have arrest records that you would never imagine for someone being involved in the "nuclear industry".  Pass a GET or RadWorker test?  Some of them can't even read while others are only functionally illiterate.

There is a certain comfort level that comes with knowing your fellow employees and/or contractors are essentially trustworthy (just don't leave your wallet laying around).

I still resent all the information my employer and, through them, the government seems to think they need.  After all, how many times do I have to provide it?  You'd think that after giving the same information for almost 40 years they'd know everything they needed to know about me.

I don't know where the line needs to be drawn, but I sure don't want to go to work for Wal-Mart.

littlebittime

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 04, 2003, 02:08 »
Ok...
so I just finished designing a website for a security firm who does background checks  (I know an odd coincidence huh?  but I swear it's true.)
Some of you have walked through thier designs.   (hint hint)  They specialize in places which need "high tech" tight security.  
(Bond... James Bond)

So I asked one of them what the deal was with financial checks.  I was told that it in fact isn't a new practice... and it has little to nothing to do with 9/11 except for this one fact...

If you are financially in rough times... then you maybe someone who is more apt to take bribes. In which case the company would want to know about that, as it would directly effect security.  

So there you have it folks... that's why.  And it kind of makes sense huh?  

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Re: NRC Access Authorization vs. Privacy?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 04, 2003, 08:53 »
Quote


If you are financially in rough times... then you maybe someone who is more apt to take bribes. In which case the company would want to know about that, as it would directly effect security.  

So there you have it folks... that's why.  And it kind of makes sense huh?  


I remember when I got transferred to Callaway 5 (time sure flies) years ago I was told they would be running my credit report & the reason you stated was the same reason I was given.  I checked with my new coworkers when I finally made it inside the fence & was told the same thing.

What was real fun was the look on my old bosses face when he had to tell me that I had an appointment with the psychologist my last week scheduled at the garage.  I'm thinking he was worried that he was going to have to put up with me for a little longer while they figured out where else they could send me.   ;D
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

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