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bk_con1

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Licensing exam schedules
« on: Sep 03, 2006, 07:56 »
I was looking at the NRC website for licensing exam schedules.  i noticed they are having them for SROI and SROU's.  What is the difference between the two?  Also can I assume that the classes start 18 months prior to the exam date?

Brian

Fermi2

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #1 on: Sep 03, 2006, 08:54 »
An SROI is an SRO Instant, a person with either previous SRO Experience or a degree who is selected for SRO training at a facility without having been an RO there.

An SROU is an Upgrade from a current RO License, in other words someone who has obtained an RO License at the facility and is selected to become an SRO.

The programs are slightly different in length. You are correct in assuming the SROI Program is around 18 months. Its the same length as the RO Program. Before that 18 months starts the SROI Candidate is required to spend 6 months in Operations.

An SROI class will usually consist of the following.

1: 6 months in operations doing various Ops jobs as an observer. Usually this time has a Familiarization Guide or Qual Card to provide some structure. The SROI usually performs some NLO WAtchstation TRaining.

2: Approximately 3 Months of Therory Training also called GFE. This will be followed by an NRC GFE Exam.

3: Approximately 3 months of systems training.

4: Approximately 1 month of General Operating Procedures Training (Startup and Shutdown Procedures) This is a mix of classroom and simulator training.

5: 5 Months of AOP/EOP Training which is your Abnormal Operating Procedures (example loss of one feed pump) and Emergency Operating Procedures (Example Reactor Trip in the PWR world, or LOCA or Steam Generator Tube Rupture) Again this is about 1/2 classroom and 1/2 simulator. Usually the candidates get Admin Procedure training during this time.

6: 3 to 4 months of onshift training. The requirement is 13 weeks of training on an average of 40 hours a week for 13 weeks for a total of 520 hours, 240 of which must be above 25% power. The SROI/U/RO rotates with an operating shift, performs qual cards and has to get at least 5 "significant" Reactivity Manipulations. Significant is defined by the utility but in general it means A: Change Reactor Power by at least 5% using Turbine Load or Control Rods, B: Pull the Reactor Critical,  C: Adjust Control Rods or Boron to cause a significant change (around 1 degree) in Tave, D: Perform a critical heat up adjusting CR Position in a BWR for instance change pressure by 200# using Control Rods.

7: 3 Months of Pre License Prep. This is usually all simulator drills with some review topics. Most utilities administer about 3 NRC practice exams during this time. Sometime in the last 4 weeks there will be a 2 week Audit Exam which you must pass. Its the utilities version of the NRC Exam. Usually this is administered with the intent on having it complete with 2 weeks to go in the course in order to allow time to correct weak points.

Then the NRC Exam.

The SROU don't go through the full course. They usually enter around GO Training. (Step 4). When I got my RO License the Upgrades didn't enter until after AOP Training but before EOP Training.

Generically this is true throughout the Industry with some variation by utility. For instance my old utility the AOP/EOP Training was shorter because BWRs have less EOPs. My curent utility has all the standard PWR EOPs plus quite a few AOPs as they made AOPs for Instrument Failures so there's a bunch of Abnormal Procedures.

Mike
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 11:44 by Broadzilla »

bk_con1

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #2 on: Sep 03, 2006, 09:23 »
Thanks for the info.

Brian

Fermi2

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #3 on: Sep 03, 2006, 09:40 »
Anytime!

Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #4 on: Sep 07, 2006, 08:16 »
Not being to pesimistic but I just wonder A what is drop rate like for SROI (please contrast Navy types to non-Navy)  What happens to drops?  Is there remediation during the training if you fail a test or is it set up to prevent failure?  What happens if a person drops do they normallt get offered another spot or are they sent packing????

Rob

PS Hopefully I am not tempting the Gods of fate aksing this stuff :D

Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #5 on: Sep 07, 2006, 03:20 »
Failure rates for non-previous NRC licensed SROI vary greatly. I have seen over 50% failure at the plants where I have worked. Normally offered another job, but not a given.
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Fermi2

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #6 on: Sep 08, 2006, 10:21 »
This is a good question. I'll make an attempt to answer without making a judgement as to who makes the better SROs as I believe the root of the question is the success rate of getting the license.

During the mid to late 90s when SROI became more prevalent the wave was to pick mostly engineers from the plant and in many cases this was based on pure engineering ability. The training programs weren't really geared to getting these instants through. Items like 6 months working with Ops weren't really thought of. As a result the pass rate was maybe 50%, in fact I'd seen Candidates that went through the entire program then get dropped at the end.

This is where an organization like INPO really helps out. They started looking into it and developed ACADs to assist all utilities in how they should handle an instant from selection to grave. The infant mortality rate went down considerably. Where you see issues is where utilities bypass what are good recommendations. I'd say the mortality rate is now less than 10% for a pure engineering instant. The real key here is the utility has to assess what the candidates knowledge is during selection and modify his/her pre class time accordingly. An example, I went to class with an Instant who subsequently failed out of the course. The individual is extremely intelligent and a great guy, but on day 1 I knew he was doomed when we were discussing a system and had no idea how to read a piping diagram. When you're taught 3 to 5 systems a day it's almost impossible to learn basics on the fly. On the other hand these candidates have a decent grasp on how things are done in a civilian plant. Candidates who worked closely with Ops as part of their jobs tend to do well enough to pass the course, this is partly because they are familiar with how Ops does business and because they already know Operators so they are more atune to getting help.

The other question was Ex Navy Nukes and their success. These candidates usually have an advantage as they've been through a structured program and at the minimum can read mechanical prints and can use that base knowledge to learn to read electrical prints. After the first couple weeks of systems they tend to do well. I say after the first couple weeks because the Navy tends to focus on System Facts, the Commercial Industry tends to focus on what ifs and system interrelationships.  Once they get this down they tend to adapt. Non Navy Engineers sometimes have trouble with systems because they zone in on fine detail such as how many windings are on a pump which is stuff that one simply doesn't have to know.

Both groups have trouble in the simulator when AOP/EOP training starts. The main issues are Command and Control and figuring out what is important once the barrage of alarms come in. Many Engineers have never had to be supervisors or display any command and control so they tend to lag quite a bit here. Usually during the Initial License Phase neither group gets all that proficient, having SRO Upgrades or Previously Licensed individuals helps them quite a bit.

ON the average I'd say the Ex Navy Nuke has a higher chance of making it through, in fact I've only heard of one not making it. So far as Engineers I'd say 90% pass rate but that depends on how prepared the utility makes them AND how well they adapt to having to be adaptable. The Two SRO Instant Engineers in my class both were gone before the end of Systems. One will get another shot. The other went back to Engineering. At my old plant one became an STA, the other became an STA then successfully obtained a license, the last became a NLO.

I didn't really cover Instants who have been previously licensed as these types are recent phenomena however if one licensed at another utility they should be able to license again. I know three previously licensed SROs who went from a BWR to a PWR and obtained licenses and that's about as tough as it gets anywhere.

Mike
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 11:45 by Broadzilla »

Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #7 on: Sep 08, 2006, 11:07 »
Mike, once again you have provided an excellent post that provides answers that are extremely helpful, both in information and allaying the fears of a nervous prospective job hunter!!  To tell the truth I can not wait to start the interview and process now that I am sending out resumes and these answers give me much more confidence going in that I am what they will be looking for (and if I am not well then in the word of Conan the Barbarian; “To Hell with you”, unfortunately in a post I can not put Arrnoldds accent on it like in the movie but I think you get the idea) 8)
As usual your post has given me fodder for more questions but most would be better served in another thread so I will post them else where, but staying on topic for this thread:
 How tailored is the exam for the plant, I thought I saw where the NRC was having the plants make the tests.  NRC administers it but how much does the utility know of what on the test.  I ask as I wonder if the test it taught thru the course as often happen in Navy schools or is the test a conglomeration of material, much of which is never specifically covered (i.e. Navy rating exams).

Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to going thru the training and adapting!
(I loved that line out of your post and may make it my new personal motto!! 8) 8)
Thanks yet once again,   Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #8 on: Sep 08, 2006, 11:16 »
I need to clarify my previous remark. AUOs that go up for a license can be SROI as well, they typically have the same pass rate as RO.

In answer to the more recent question, when the plant makes the exam the people developing the exam have very little contact with the students. Many plants now have them walk around with "NRC EXAM SECURITY" badges so only those with exam security will discuss matters with them. Part of that is due to honest mistakes in the past.

The exam is specifically written for that plant. Sometimes similar plants will share resources in exam preparation. The plant has to certify it if they don't write it, and the NRC has to agree to it if they don't write it.

In summary, the exam will not be taught.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Fermi2

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #9 on: Sep 08, 2006, 11:49 »
LOL using my quotes will normally get one in trouble.

Roll Tide is correct about the NRC Exam. Within 6 months of the exam the developement team will not be allowed to discuss any plant related issues with the candidates. They can say a nice hello though :)

The NRC is always at liberty to substitute questions of their choosing.

Mike

Offline cheme09

Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #10 on: Jul 31, 2012, 08:59 »
RC Helicopter are a world of mine.oh my god!!!oyea!!!for everyone......enjoy it!!!


I'm sure the mods will pick up on this spam.  But interestingly enough, it gave a bump to some very good posts from BZ.  Must have been a different time back then  ;)
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2012, 09:00 by cheme09 »

Offline MMM

Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #11 on: Jul 31, 2012, 09:10 »
I agree. There's a lot of good info here that I hadn't thought about looking for.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #12 on: Jul 31, 2012, 10:24 »
I'm sure the mods will pick up on this spam.  But interestingly enough, it gave a bump to some very good posts from BZ.  Must have been a different time back then  ;)

Nothing that some lutein, tribulus and saw palmetto supplements couldn't help  8)

Oh, and less fluoridated water....
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2012, 10:26 by HydroDave63 »

mwdavis

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Re: Licensing exam schedules
« Reply #13 on: Aug 02, 2012, 10:53 »
I am currently one week into the Abnormal Ops phase of simulator training on my way through the program as an SROI, and I wholeheartedly agree with everything Mike said referring to the challenges that people from different backgrounds face. The class started with two engineers. One did not make it through the systems phase. The other has had the highest GPA in the class since we started. The only SROU in the class is hardly ever challenged and is a wealth of information for the rest of us, as are the two RO candidates in the class. In my opinion one of the main skills that needs to be developed as early as possible is information management. There in a never-ending stream of information to be sorted out and prioritized.

 


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