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Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« on: Sep 05, 2006, 09:55 »
OK at the risk of annoying those who do not like comparing Navy plant to civ plants let me ask this:
It seems to me that NLO is a combination of all the space watchstanders on a navy plant with a little of what would also be off watch duties thrown in (ie PMS/tagouts).  Am I right on this?

Now my question is (please no flaming for comparison) how do the SRO/RO jobs differ from what would be the booth watch team combined into one watch.  I guess I wonder what SRO (is there a big diff from RO to SRO??) does different that EOOW/RO/EO does in Navy plant?  I am thinking that the plant level of knowledge must be higher but, humor me on this one, if I took MM1/EM1/ET1 and musshed them into 1 watch (assume they are SPU EOOW qualed guys) do I then have what would be considered a civ SRO or am I to heavy in one area?  
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Fermi2

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #1 on: Sep 05, 2006, 12:07 »
Then multiply the difficulty and required knowledge of EVERYTHING by 50 and you might be close.

Mike

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #2 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:30 »
Required knowledge being much higher I can see to the increased plant size and complexity as well as the number of systems, but what makes it more diffcult?  Other then the complexity issue is ther anything else that makes it more difficult? Are the plant less forgiving in thier design, I know Navy plant are designed to be (almost) monkey proof, you know the old bananna drop down every time operator makes correct action thing.  Are comercial plant less forgiving of mistakes? or are they less stringent in thier design criteria for profit related reasons (not banging on commercial design practices more interested in finding out why it is more difficult!  (to be honest I thought being an RO and EOOW were easy once you understood the plant and how the system worked/interrelated)

Rob
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Fermi2

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #3 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:34 »
Commercial plants have a LOT of built in safety margin, so in emergency scenarios they are forgiving of mistakes. On the other hand their complexity makes it easier to make a mistake AND have those mistakes lead to a unit trip.

The Administrative portion of operating a commercial plant is orders of magnitude higher than a Naval plant. SROs are responsible for the majority of a plants day to day operational administration, and on back shifts virtually all of it.

Mike

Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #4 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:41 »
OK now I see what you mean more difficult.  It would make sense that more systems leaves more room for errors to compuond into shutdown.  And if you are responsible for all the documentaiton at the same time well then....

Speaking of docs you do NLO log review, lockout)instead of tagout right), review chem logs, operation log... what else (honestly never thought about all the other docs you might have to manage are you required to review QA packages or PMS records too?
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Fermi2

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #5 on: Sep 05, 2006, 05:43 »
Usually ROs do NLO Log Review. We do use Lockout Tagout in the civilian world.

Items routinely reviewed in a day

1: Corrective action initiations which for a Shift Manager are usually the most tricky.

2: Work order intiations for classify as to priority, accuracy and to ensure what is broken doesn't violate the license.

3: Limiting Conditions for Operation AKA Tech Specs, ie if you have Pump A from Train A out of service what actions need to be taken and what how long can it be out. Also what sort of compensatory actions are required to be permoed.

4: PMTs for maintenance work orders.

5: Upcoming work,

6: Approval of hanging and restoring tags.

7: Review of work packages and surveillance testing to ensure all acceptance criteria is met.

8: Shift Performance Reviews.

9: Write your shifts cycle report.

10: Perform observations and coaching for the NLOs and Control Room staff.

11: Review training performance.

12: Ensure preps are made for any commitees you might belong to.

13: Approve and review actions taken for corrective action documents assigned to your shift.

14: Review your upcoming work week.

15: Dose reviews for your shift

16: Review and approve temporary changes to procedures.

There's a few more but these are the major ones.

Mike
« Last Edit: Sep 06, 2006, 10:50 by Broadzilla »

Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #6 on: Sep 05, 2006, 06:11 »
Excellent listing, this give me an idea of what a shift might be like.  All this while you are supervisng the plant operators makes it seems quite a busy watch.  Much of what you list would be off watch type of material for Navy types.
How many people are normally sharing the SRO duties at one time?  Do SM and STA share in this or is it all the SRO's.

 Rob
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Fermi2

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #7 on: Sep 05, 2006, 06:39 »
Usually only SMs can classify Corrective action documents and Work Orders.

The rest is spread through the SROs.

A typical crew is as follows. This is for a dual unit site.

One SM

Two Unit Supervisors

One Work Control SRO who might double as an sTA. This is usually a Unit Supervisor. This is the SRO who usually takes care of work control functions such as testing, tagouts, work package review.

One Floor Walker SRO, usually a Unit Supervisor whose job is to supervise evolutions in the plant

If a shift is forced to go Short Handed the Floor Walker is the position that would be unstaffed.

One of the Unit Supervisors in the CR can double as the STA but this isn't Optimal as he/she would have to be relieved of US responsibilities if the Emergency Procedures are entered.

At the single Unit Site I at which I was employed we had the following for SROs.

One SM

One Unit Supervisor

One Work Control SRO/STA known as a Shift Engineer. This person never stood Unit Supervisor as there was only one qualified STA on each shift and the utility elected to not a have a procedure for relief during a transient. After working at another Utility I'm surprised my former employer doesn't have a procedure as being an STA at a BWR  is far different than at a PWR and in fact the turnover at a Boiler would be easier.

There wasn't a Floor Walker though the ROs were supervisory and acted as in field supervisors.

Mike

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #8 on: Sep 06, 2006, 09:58 »
Excellent listing, this give me an idea of what a shift might be like.  All this while you are supervisng the plant operators makes it seems quite a busy watch.  Much of what you list would be off watch type of material for Navy types.

Much of the work listed IS in someone else's job description. But the SM is responsible to the Plant Manager and the NRC when it is wrong. For example, the lead Health Physics Tech (or back shift supervisor, depending on the site) would also do a dose review and should alert the SM to any areas of concern.
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Fermi2

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #9 on: Sep 06, 2006, 10:49 »
Actually everything I listed appears in either a procedure or expectation for both facilities at which I've been employed. So far as Dose Reviews for a shift the trend in the industry has been for the departments to take more ownership of their dose, so far as dose reviews I don't mean I make up the RWPs, but I am responsible for determining why my shift or an individual went over on jobs that were assigned to us. All the stuff I listed is stuff I do on a daily basis, weekly at minimum. I will concede in many cases it'd delegated to another SRO.

Mike

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #10 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:35 »
OK so if (big if) one were to get into an instant SRO class how does it breakdown, is it a years of plant and system followed by ojt on watch with lots of admin filling or do you do a period of time in plant qualifying (learning plant 1st).

Also what is the difference in core theory knowledge for NLO to SRO (I would assume SRO is core heavy like RO in Navy) while NLO is more like MM/EM with lite core coverage).  Just wondering how much core theory/physics I need to brush up on when I go for NLO interviews (any other suggestions for prep material, yes I am preping for POSS with ASVAB guide but want to be prepared for anything else that might be asked??)

Rob
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Offline MLew44

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Re: Civ SRO to EOOW/RO/EO (no flaming please)
« Reply #11 on: Sep 18, 2006, 04:45 »
To fill an SRO instant slot, you'd probably get hired on as "Ops staff" to start -- a management position, non-licensed, which means you would not be qualified to operate anything. Your role, until the license class starts, would be administrative, and you most likely would not get any on-watch operating experience. Very little opportunity to learn the plant, as you'd be involved in administrative work (of which there is plenty of to go around). On your own time, you could always start looking ahead and studying, which might be helpful.

For NLO, the "POSS" (I cannot remember the details of this initial hiring test; just that it was easy) does not require any core theory knowledge... some basic physics, some math.

I also work at a dual unit site... some staffing differences from what Mike noted, but similar... At any one point, seven SRO licensed individuals on watch, assuming the STA is licensed.

Activity on shift is busy. Some time ago (10 to 15 years), commercial plants changed their operating philosophy. It used to be that all potential risk activities (any maintenance work that could remotely jeopardize generation) were saved for refueling outages. Preventative Maintenance programs were bare bones and unstructured. Run till something broke, then fix it; that was the philosophy... not bad for newer plants. But as the plants aged, every week forced outages resulted from equipment failures. Capacity factors (percentage of full power X time) began to suck. Refueling outages became lengthier and lengthier. Maintenance programs were restructured, and the philosophy completely changed. Now, we work anything and everything that can possibly be worked without shutting down the plant. A steam leak? Find some way to isolate it and fix it. A seal leak on a Condensate Pump? Reduce power, shut down the pump, and work it. All work is classified as outage or not, and if it can possibly be done with the unit on line, every effort will be made to do it. The overall result is better running plants with shorter refueling outages. But all this makes for a busy watch team -- on nightshift, you'll find yourself working to shut down and isolate equipment for the following day's maintenance crew. On dayshifts, recovering from the same. Makes it interesting, but challenging.

 


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