Help | Contact Us
NukeWorker.com
NukeWorker Menu Failed drug test implications?  

Author Topic: Failed drug test implications?  (Read 78307 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Failed drug test implications?
« on: Sep 05, 2006, 10:12 »
OK (this on is for a friend)
What are the long term implications for a guy who gets poped on pee test while working as a contractor at a plant site?
Details: Nuke MM2 who got discharged from navy for failing piss test then got hired on with contractor who sent him to nuke plants to work on diesel engines. He got dumb again and smoked dope failed piss test at a site (not sure which).  This all happed over 4 years ago since he has held down good job (I am not sure if they drug test there but since they do lots of Navy contracts they might) and he has been going to college (high gpa in engineering AS program).  What are his options for working in the Nuke industry now?  How long will the failed test hang over his head? Can he do anything to impove situation with reguards to gettting into working at a nuclear power plant?  He says he was dumb and young and now is more mature about his life but what damage has he done?

Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #1 on: Sep 05, 2006, 12:05 »
Technically after 5 years he's eligible to get unescorted access.

Most likely it won't happen.

Mike

Offline AS55555

  • Light User
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 9
  • I love NukeWorker.com!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #2 on: Sep 05, 2006, 12:32 »
His best chance will be honesty. I had one person with a drug conviction and interstate transportation of firearms who listed his parole officer as a reference. He was honest about it and actually got a clearance. Time does help. I had another employee who said he had a college degree and was actually three credit hours short- did have 4 years of college. The job only required a HS education but he lost his clearance for not telling the truth on his application. Over the years I have seen a number of other people with past convictions get clearances after the 5 year period if they were totally honest and had an excellent current record.

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #3 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:12 »
In todays day and age why take a chance? Many utilities currently have it written into their procedures that any drug related offense disqualifies a person forever. There's no percentage in giving someone a second chance. At the minimum it'll be 5 years.

Mike

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #4 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:20 »
Why take a chance?  Well, I see many utilities scrouging for people right now at the last minute for techs...If a utility has a hard and fast rule they won't break maybe they won't take a chance. But, if another utility who will consider them has a choice between an excellent tech who failed a drug test 5 years ago and has been kicking butt ever since (like college, other jobs, drug free etc) and a loser with poor evals who is a marginal tech maybe the first guy will get the job.  I have worked with a couple of guys that were REALLY bad.  And I'm assuming they were there because no one else was available.....just using common sense, maybe I am missing something.

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:25 »
Once a druggie always a druggie, I could care less about their work performance since the time they got caught.

Mike

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:36 »
Thanks for the input, I will pass it along to him.  Well normally I would temper Mike's last comment a little, but he does deserve to hear it straight from the prespective from someone in Mike's position.
To me he seems like good guy (was my study partner for semesters of calc 1&2) who grew up when he figured out what he had done wrong, but I can see the why take a chance attitude.  He is working on his ME degree and just wondered if he had slammed the door on himself or not.

Thanks
Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

alphadude

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #7 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:40 »
there is more to life than nuke.....

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #8 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:40 »
Once a druggie always a druggie, I could care less about their work performance since the time they got caught.

Mike

Mike,

I can see your point and in todays world there is not a lot of incentive to cut anyone any slack. However let me just say this about that; if you had been around this industry in the late 70's or early 80's the culture that existed then (pre-FFD) lent itself to a wide open existence. There are many folks who reigned in their lifestyles and adapted and are now in positions of management and some who never did and are no longer in the business.

Point being, some folks can clean up their act. ;) Just my opinion I could be wrong.
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #9 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:42 »
Maybe he hasn't, again it depends on the utility and won't even be considered until after the 5 year point. I'll give you an example, I know a guy who was one heck of an asset to his utility. In fact he was well thought of. He had an "issue" and his unescorted access revoked. It's been 8 years and still no one will touch him, and he has far more skills than an excellent technician. The real question is why take a chance on someone who knowingly violated an FFD rule when those rules are very black and white to begin with, when you get can someone who hasn't violated the rules? Put another way, there is tremendous competition for any job in this industry, look at the people asking for advice on this board then multiply it by 100. When we screened resumes for our last NLO Bid we screened it down to TWO HUNDRED before we even attempted final screening. Now given that many people, the majority of which have never had an FFD issue why would I even consider someone who has had their chance and blew it?

Mike

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #10 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:45 »
Mike,

I can see your point and in todays world there is not a lot of incentive to cut anyone any slack. However let me just say this about that; if you had been around this industry in the late 70's or early 80's the culture that existed then (pre-FFD) lent itself to a wide open existence. There are many folks who reigned in their lifestyles and adapted and are now in positions of management and some who never did and are no longer in the business.

Point being, some folks can clean up their act. ;) Just my opinion I could be wrong.


I won't argue that, I think my post previous to this is more definitive on where I'm coming from. I just don't see the point in an employer even taking the risk given there are plenty of qualified people who are out there.

And yes I also realize at times there is a double standard on alcohol.  But the questioned asked was about a druggie and not alcohol.

Mike

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #11 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:48 »

 I just don't see the point in an employer even taking the risk given there are plenty of qualified people who are out there.

Mike

Point well made; and taken  ;)
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #12 on: Sep 05, 2006, 01:53 »
Ok well since drinking came up?  What do they disalow in comercial world?  FOr example now days in Navy your test is tested for steroids and ephedria along with all the regular miscreatant drug types.  Anything you have to be carfeful of in commercial world (the old poppy seed muffin?? ;D

Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

DDD

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #13 on: Sep 05, 2006, 02:12 »
Been there done that! All I can say is that if your friend is truthful and truely wants a career in this industry IT CAN be done, "good luck"
Mike,

I can see your point and in todays world there is not a lot of incentive to cut anyone any slack. However let me just say this about that; if you had been around this industry in the late 70's or early 80's the culture that existed then (pre-FFD) lent itself to a wide open existence. There are many folks who reigned in their lifestyles and adapted and are now in positions of management and some who never did and are no longer in the business.

Point being, some folks can clean up their act. ;) Just my opinion I could be wrong.

Daryl

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #14 on: Sep 05, 2006, 02:58 »
I thought the question concerned whether or not a plant would hire a guy with past drug results, not everybody's personal opinion on 2nd chances. Well since the topic has magically changed here is my opinion: I think if a person has shown he can change for a considerable amount of time (like 5 years) then of course he should be considered.  Everyone who tries drugs doesn't get hooked and aren't bad people.  People who think this probably have an irrational view of life and don't want to look at reality due to some profound influence or anecdotal evidence which occured sometime early in life. 

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #15 on: Sep 05, 2006, 03:17 »
I thought the question concerned whether or not a plant would hire a guy with past drug results, not everybody's personal opinion on 2nd chances.

You are correct. The topic somehow got off base, the answer is some plants will some won't it is all up to the individual facility.

Thanks for bringing us back on topic ;)
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

vikingfan

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 05, 2006, 03:22 »
 Exactly hopster !! different utility, different interpretation of the procedures ! some may grant access after lets say 5 years for a previous drug offense while others will not. did such named individual go to some sort of rehab ? or just wait everything out ?

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 05, 2006, 03:38 »
no prob, thanks hopster.  I just feel that while many can't, some people can change, we all haven't been perfect our entire lives have we? 

Anyway, I've talked to a couple people who have had priors in past lifetime and they are still working.  One of them was drugs, the others were felonies.  So there are people working today amongst us (we may not even know it) who have had problems but have overcame and are still accepted by nuclear plants, regardless of everyone's opinion of them.

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #18 on: Sep 05, 2006, 03:41 »
Good question.  He said he looked into it and could go if required but is expensive and he would have to put college on hold for a semester.  It sounded to me like he would rather wait five years (since four have already gone by).  Would it make a difference if he did?
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline RRhoads

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: 334
  • Gender: Male
  • it was like like that when i got here!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #19 on: Sep 05, 2006, 03:50 »
Once a druggie always a druggie, I could care less about their work performance since the time they got caught.

Mike

ahh i think that statement is bull#*&t...some people can learn from their mistakes.
BUt failing a piss test twice in 4 years hints at a problem...
but the above quote is ignorant IMHO.
« Last Edit: Sep 05, 2006, 03:57 by PWHoppe »

PAULTHEVOL

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #20 on: Sep 05, 2006, 05:29 »
I agree with you RRhodes.I know several people in the biz that cleaned they're act up after past mistakes in there life and went on to do very well,but the comment about not caring about someones work performance after failing a drug test is just as ignorant as the one he made ,and I quote,(Were talking about a druggie,not alcohol.)Hey genius,alcohol is a drug,and I suggest that you might open your mind and heart to a bit of forgiveness and you might find that some people learn from mistakes.Once a druggie does not mean,always a druggie!----Paul

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 05, 2006, 05:35 »
Note I did state alcohol is a tricky subject and case but alcohol was not the subject of the original post.

Rob the reason I said 5 years is that's the legal requirement for denial of unescorted access if one gets popped for a drug violation at a nuke facility.

I stand by my original statement, once a druggie always a druggie. It's not ignorant in the least.

Mike

Offline RRhoads

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: 334
  • Gender: Male
  • it was like like that when i got here!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 05, 2006, 06:41 »
well....then i doubt you have been in THIS business (the commercial side) for too long...i have know MANY of folks who got on board post FFD changes & still know some to this day & they are not still "druggies!"
gimme a break!....we all used to crap our pants too! that doesn't mean we still do!
get off your box dude!

Offline RDTroja

  • Site Heretic
  • Gold Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4015
  • Karma: 4558
  • Gender: Male
  • I knew I got into IT for a reason!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 05, 2006, 08:45 »
IMHO -- and speaking as a participant, not a moderator -- Mike has consistently shown a closed minded and my-opinion-is-better-than-yours attitude. Of course he is entitled to think whatever he wants and allowed to express his opinions here. To me, anyone that could say something as ignorant as 'once a druggie always a druggie' deserves only to be ignored and I personally pity him for his outlook on life... not that he should care what I think. I am sure he will tell you he has never screwed up or done anything remotely illegal in his life and should therefore avoid the condemnation he so harshly pours upon others. Or, maybe he will admit some human failings and show that his statement is pure hypocrisy. Either way his opinioin means no more to me than mine does to him.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

                                  -Marty Feldman

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
                                  -Ronald Reagan

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

                                  - Voltaire

Dan_E.

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #24 on: Sep 05, 2006, 11:57 »
Karma to Pat, hamsamich, & Roger; well said gentlemen!

Offline Roll Tide

  • Nearly SRO; Previous RCO / AUO / HP Tech / MM1ss
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1876
  • Karma: 1447
  • Gender: Male
  • Those who wait upon God..rise up on eagles' wings
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #25 on: Sep 06, 2006, 07:52 »
I stand by my original statement, once a druggie always a druggie. It's not ignorant in the least.


That is a very harsh statement. But the perspective offered is that multiple drug test failures will absolutely rule someone out of many nuclear plants. That is the harsh reality. Should a company spend thousands of dollars to hire and train a new employee, only to lose them to another drug test? Exceptional circumstances would have to be present. 5 years drug free (with verification) and completion of a treatment program along with a skill set in high demand would be "exceptional circumstances" for some plants.

The old-timers pre-FFD are a different category. They operated by the rule of the day. In comparison, if alcohol consumption was suddenly forbidden by nukeworkers, many could make the transition to prohibition but some would not. The question is, whether you operate under the rules in place or will you try to game the system (or in this case, game the system again).

Mike is consistent in these posts. He would not waste the company money if there was another choice to hire. Should I ask him to sugar-coat it, but still have the same meaning?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

vikingfan

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #26 on: Sep 06, 2006, 08:00 »
    its a risk reward scenario ! is it worth the risk of the utility to like rad ghost stated would spend the money to train someone ect only to have access denied ect. don't get us wrong we all  know individuals who have failed FFD. but who have eventually had their access reinstated. just a case by case basis. Good Luck my friend.

vikingfan

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #27 on: Sep 06, 2006, 08:01 »
woops i credited rad ghost when i meant to credit roll tide !!

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #28 on: Sep 06, 2006, 08:33 »
Coming from a background where we have gone to zero tollerence for drugs and a DUI is now a career killer (second is a career ender) I can see the "too bad you screwed up we will get some one else" mentality thyat some plants are said to have.  However I have dealt with any number of guys who screwed up at one point or another in thier lives with drugs and still turned out ok (this includes a lot of officers who were prior enlisted and are now CWO/LDO).  The problem is they no longer exist, what I mean is that by going to zero tollerence we have lost those people.  IMHO Zero tollerence like all absolute criteria policies is a mistake the individual and situation should be considered first then dealt with individually.  I some times think it relates back to our "politically correct" & fair socity were giving one guy a second chance and not another would be considered unfair.  I am sure some one could raise an issue about why they were not given a second chance and try and take an employer to court cause another guys was.
Now in this case (trying to put aside the fact I know him) I would say 5 years and some demonstrated change in life would make enough reason to reevaluate this individual and thier potential to contribute to a company.  However if I had two equally qualified guy  and one does not have his baggage well.... I think you can guess who gets the job.  Second chances in life are hard to get and we all know it, but they CAN be had and that was what I wanted to find out for him

Thanks for your input
Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #29 on: Sep 06, 2006, 10:37 »
yes marssim.  and to Roll Tide, man, I really DON'T think deep down in your heart of hearts you think that Mike's stance is a logical one.  you know what he said is wrong.  there is a difference between what he said and taking the stance that the company shouldn't gamble money on people with priors, period, which is what you are talking about.  that is NOT what mike said.

Once a druggy always a druggy is a 100% statement that says people can't change EVER if they have ever ingested a hardcore drug.  I don't have to go on about the implications of a comment like this one.  most of you get how obtuse and potentially hurtful it is.

What the rest of us are aruging about is whether or not it is a good idea ECONOMICALY and SAFE to let people who have drug priors back into the nuclear world.

I think the answer to that is yes, if they have shown a considerable amount of progress over a long period of time. Is 5 years the best answer and of what criteria, I don't know, but people fail everyday and it seems to be the American way to give a second chance if that chance is DESERVED.

astronuke

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #30 on: Sep 06, 2006, 11:44 »
I think the regulations (10CFR26) also require proof of rehab before someone can be granted access again following a positive test.

Offline thenukeman

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1939
  • Karma: 1964
  • Elements Rule Battle , Elementis Regamus Proleium
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #31 on: Sep 06, 2006, 01:43 »
Convicted felons are repeat offenders 80 percent of the time.  I would think this is true of druggies.  Five years of documented clean with rehab shows a start. A second offense should be a permanent ban.  Failed Drug test shows defiance of laws, Will that person defy rad regulations, defy work practices, show contempt of superiors and coworkers. I think this is a strong sign.  I would not hire that person if she was my mother, but thats my opinion.  Thats what wrong with society too many whiney babies and wanting second chances for things they know are wrong.
I also think three strikes your out for a felon is one too many strikes.  Permanent jail for a second felony. DUI second offense, life time driving ban and 2 years jail.  I guess I am ranting so I will stop.

WADecay

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #32 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:08 »
Nobodys Perfect, But plenty of High and Mighty Folks.  I hope some of you never have to be in the other person's shoes...............

Offline Laning

  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • I love NukeWorker.com!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #33 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:11 »
"Failed Drug test shows defiance of laws, Will that person defy rad regulations, defy work practices, show contempt of superiors and coworkers. I think this is a strong sign."

Dude...ever drive drunk? Get in a fight...Run a stop sign...red light...or any other minor unlawful offense. Afterall...breaking the law is breaking the law, no? Last I knew, failing a drug test was NOT a crime in this country. Don't treat it like one. Its a condition of employment no more no less. How many Jack-ass techs have shown up on jobs claiming to be qualified and failed entrance exams. You wanna hop on a bandwagon, try the falsifying-of-resumes bandwagon. I can't think of a more compelling reason to deny ones access. If someone has the lack of integrity to radio a resume, what do you think he's doing with all of that equipment he just free released?

I agree with the notion of multiple offenses being a good case for not hiring someone. It shows a pattern. One mistake is not a pattern. If a person satisfies the follow-up requirements such as rehab...penalty period, etc, it would be un -American not to afford her/him the opportunity to make a living in their field of choice.

"Once a druggy always a druggy"...sounds like my Granny.....who reminded me a lot of Archie Bunker.
 
If you're gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #34 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:36 »
OK (this on is for a friend)
What are the long term implications for a guy who gets poped on pee test while working as a contractor at a plant site?

WOW!

This is the topic of the thread and yet we seem to have morphed into something else :D I'm as guilty of this as everyone else, but let's all try to stay on the topic at hand...or start a new topic..."Second chances YES or NO", or some such title...OK  ???

your friendly neighborhood moderator
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Offline Laning

  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • I love NukeWorker.com!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #35 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:52 »
PWHoppe,

My humble apology. I initially intended to offer advice, then got sucked in.

My advice to ChiefRocscooter's friend:

1. Change your lifestyle
2. Look for work where 10CFR26 does not apply
3. Be persistent
4. Take the jobs and tasks that nobody else wants...and do them well.
5. Show up everyday, on time, volunteer for the OT nobody else wants, keep your mouth shut, work your ass off.

If you're gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #36 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:57 »
I believe I have my answer in the form of :
1. Five year min legal wait
2. Rehab would look good but so does other proven work/personal improvements
3. He will face some prejudice (rightly so to a point) that may hamper his chances, but he is not "locked" out.  He has to be better than the next (maybe much better) guy to get back in.

Anyone disagree that this is what I should tell him?  (I am going to get him to look at this board so he can get a feel for how the viws run for and against.

Thanks everyone for helping (even the "negitives" answers are helpful)
Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #37 on: Sep 06, 2006, 02:58 »
Bravo Laning that wouild make good addition to my last post!
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #38 on: Sep 06, 2006, 03:23 »
THose points are the ones to give him.  BUT (there's always one of those, isn't there?) Almost EVERYBODY here has missed one very important piece of information.
You don't have to put the results of drug testing on your resume - you don't even have to put it on your job application.  The ONE and ONLY reason to mention it during an intgerview is if you are asked a direct question which you cannot answer truthfully without doing so.
The probability of anyone asking you, "did you fail a drug test?" during an interview is practically nil.  If they ask you why you left nuclear power five years ago, you gotta give it up.  Otherwise, you don't have to say a single word about it.  Naturally, a manager should be smart enough to recognize the significance of a five year absence.  I have no doubt that someone like Broadzilla would catch that at the first glance and ask you about it.  But it may not be up to him if you are hired or not.
IFF (that's BASIC programming language for "if and only if") you are hired for the job, you will have to fill out a Personnel History Questionnaire.  That is the place you will have to answer for your FFD history.  Although the PHQ only asks you about the previous five years or your last unescorted access, whichever is more recent, the part about FFD goes back to your last access regardless of how long ago.
My point is that a hiring manager may be as prejudiced against drug abusers as Mike is, but still have no idea that you ever were one.
As long as you are the one who is offered the job, and you meet the requirements for a clearance, you should get the job without anyone outside of the Security department ever knowing what you did in your youth.
Being better than the next guy actually applies to everyone, doesn't it?  If you are not better than the competition, you ain't gettin' the job whether you smoked dope or not.  And if the hiring manager has Mike's attitude, it won't matter whether you are good or not - he won't hire you anyway because his mind is closed on the matter.
Bottom line:  You won't get any job unless you try.  If you go in with "ex-druggie" tattooed on your forehead, you're not really trying, are you?
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline incrediblehulk

  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 565
  • Gender: Male
  • Dum vivimus, vivamus!!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #39 on: Sep 06, 2006, 04:01 »
OK Mike -
I AM one of those pre -FFD old-time roadies. When I got into this business in the late '70's, there was a lot of drug use...both in the industry and in society in general. The only thing that made us different from your "normal" folks was that we were a very small insular society with more money than most. I freely admit that I had my share (ok...more than my share) of illegal smiles. Most of the people I knew were in the same category. When FFD came along, the VAST majority of us changed and conformed. We found other things to enjoy (for me, a beautiful wife). A mere handful of folks could not, or would not conform. Most of them went on to have successful careers outside Nuclear power, by the way. For you to state that I'm a druggie is an insult to me and to every other worker who provided the foundation of the business and the solid base that your soapbox is on.
...getting off mine now. Thanks
Steve
Life is short. That is all there is to say. Get what you can from the present - thoughtfully, justly.
                               - Marcus Aurelius

Liberty is never unalienable. It must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes.
                          -R.A. Heinlein

DDD

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #40 on: Sep 06, 2006, 05:38 »
 ;D  Amen

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #41 on: Sep 06, 2006, 05:44 »
;D  Amen

I'm guessing that Amen is for Brother Incredibles posting, right DDD  ;)

I'm thinking that the Chief never thought a simple question would stir up the troops like this :o

I'm also thinking that Broadzilla's comment struck some nerves, but hey everyones got an opinion.

Beercourt, Great advice, Karma to ya ;D
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Offline RRhoads

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: 334
  • Gender: Male
  • it was like like that when i got here!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #42 on: Sep 06, 2006, 06:45 »
THose points are the ones to give him.  BUT (there's always one of those, isn't there?) Almost EVERYBODY here has missed one very important piece of information.
You don't have to put the results of drug testing on your resume - you don't even have to put it on your job application.  The ONE and ONLY reason to mention it during an intgerview is if you are asked a direct question which you cannot answer truthfully without doing so.
The probability of anyone asking you, "did you fail a drug test?" during an interview is practically nil.  If they ask you why you left nuclear power five years ago, you gotta give it up.  Otherwise, you don't have to say a single word about it.  Naturally, a manager should be smart enough to recognize the significance of a five year absence.  I have no doubt that someone like Broadzilla would catch that at the first glance and ask you about it.  But it may not be up to him if you are hired or not.
IFF (that's BASIC programming language for "if and only if") you are hired for the job, you will have to fill out a Personnel History Questionnaire.  That is the place you will have to answer for your FFD history.  Although the PHQ only asks you about the previous five years or your last unescorted access, whichever is more recent, the part about FFD goes back to your last access regardless of how long ago.
My point is that a hiring manager may be as prejudiced against drug abusers as Mike is, but still have no idea that you ever were one.
As long as you are the one who is offered the job, and you meet the requirements for a clearance, you should get the job without anyone outside of the Security department ever knowing what you did in your youth.
Being better than the next guy actually applies to everyone, doesn't it?  If you are not better than the competition, you ain't gettin' the job whether you smoked dope or not.  And if the hiring manager has Mike's attitude, it won't matter whether you are good or not - he won't hire you anyway because his mind is closed on the matter.
Bottom line:  You won't get any job unless you try.  If you go in with "ex-druggie" tattooed on your forehead, you're not really trying, are you?



Well more to the point.....it's the one that gets you the security clearance...to a HP tech that does outages..it's the only one that matters.
Resume is just job title history & work experience...
i still think Broadzilla is WAAAY off base & Steve....i totally agree w/ you...but this guy is obvioulsy not old school!
He'd prob. be surprised at those around him that came up in the mid- late 80's

Offline thenukeman

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1939
  • Karma: 1964
  • Elements Rule Battle , Elementis Regamus Proleium
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #43 on: Sep 06, 2006, 07:29 »
Failing a Drug test is not against the law is true but, It is a strong indicator of breaking the law.  8) Having your DNA show up on a rape kit or a murder scene also is not against the law.  But you better have a great excuse ;D I have heard of Marijuana brownies and second hand smoke, But I doubt people accidently ate a brownie or were hanging out in a nuclear cloud of dope smoke if they value their clearance 8), like I said before society is trying to make excuses for felons who go back to jail 80 percent of the time.  Yes I have committed misdemeanors like speeding, but I keep that to a minimum because the consequence is a ticket, insurance goes up, safety of my family, others.  Most drug possesions are felonies.  Failing a drug test to me is a indication of a felony.  I would not hire a person who committed a felony.  Just my choice.  I hope this gives your friend and others a opinion that will help them. 

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #44 on: Sep 06, 2006, 08:36 »
No did not expect as much fire, and it does to appear that I have hit on a hot button issue.  What is cool though is the way the discussion flows and that ther is a considerable amount of effort on peoples part to make thier points on this one!

Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline SloGlo

  • meter reader
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 5827
  • Karma: 2646
  • Gender: Male
  • trust me, i'm an hp
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #45 on: Sep 06, 2006, 09:09 »
knot having the time two due this myself, but why doesn't sumbuddy download the actual penalties for gitting popped ona test?  back ina day, i thought their were three levels of time off.  my bell rings with 3 years, 5 years, lifetime.  i may be rong, but what are the regs? 
btw, once a druggie always a druggie.... nice touch.  i guess, once a murderer, always a murderer.  i know of murderers who did their time and got their clearances and worked in the commercial and the doe worlds.  fact.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #46 on: Sep 06, 2006, 11:13 »
Failing a Drug test is not against the law is true but, It is a strong indicator of breaking the law.  8) Having your DNA show up on a rape kit or a murder scene also is not against the law.  But you better have a great excuse ;D I have heard of Marijuana brownies and second hand smoke, But I doubt people accidently ate a brownie or were hanging out in a nuclear cloud of dope smoke if they value their clearance 8), like I said before society is trying to make excuses for felons who go back to jail 80 percent of the time.  Yes I have committed misdemeanors like speeding, but I keep that to a minimum because the consequence is a ticket, insurance goes up, safety of my family, others.  Most drug possesions are felonies.  Failing a drug test to me is a indication of a felony.  I would not hire a person who committed a felony.  Just my choice.  I hope this gives your friend and others a opinion that will help them. 
In New York, possession of  less than 25 grams of Marijuana isn't even a misdemeanor until the third offense.  For the first two offenses, the maximum penalty is a fine of $100 and $200.  Technically, the person who failed two drug tests may very well have committed an offense far less serious than speeding.  Smoking 25 g will definitely result in a positive test.  You can do that twice before you have commited a crime in this state.
In Alaska you may possess up to 4 ounces of Marijuana in your residence without penalty of any kind.
Many other states have decriminalized the posession of small amounts (enough for personal use) for at least the first offense or two.
Considering that personal use of small amounts of marijuana in many states is not a crime at all, then the failure of a urinalysis is not necessarily evidence of a crime.  It is merely evidence that a young guy did a stupid thing.  Do you really NEED evidence that young guys do stupid things?  Isn't that one we can just take for granted?  Hell! if youthful indiscretions were enough to disqualify people from operating nuke plants we'd all be shovelling coal for a living!
So, maybe we ought to dial down the rhetoric before we start equating someone who burned a couple of doobies in his younger days with a felon.
« Last Edit: Sep 06, 2006, 11:52 by BeerCourt »
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #47 on: Sep 06, 2006, 11:36 »
I know we are off topic but this is so interesting to me.  A person can be a functioning alcoholic, drinks every night, parties way hard on the weekend.  Maybe he even has a DUI in his file, but he does his job, stops drinking by 11pm and the boys like him.  But the same people who look up to this guy would totally condemn him or someone else for getting busted smoking weed.  People need to re-engage and think about this....  Marijuana has a stigma attatched to it from early government programs attacking it based on pseudoscience, and many people have bought into that to this day!  I don't have the study with me, but there have been quite a few done (long term) on people that have smoked MJ for 20 years or more (much of it done in jamaica I believe) and while there are slight findings in cognitive ability impairment, it is barely signifigant with no loss of major functionality.  To be more specific I'd have to look up the studies.  Weed is no worse than alky, and possibly it is not as bad with fewer long-term harmful cognitive effects.  That is what we are worried about here, right?  He too dum to scram reactor...

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #48 on: Sep 07, 2006, 07:41 »
Sorry to the moderators and to Mike R for again veering off course,

No problem  ;) It would seem you are not alone in that area. I'm kinda just letting this run it's course right now since it is such a "hot" topic and I'm just letting everyone get it off their chests.

It is after all a subject that is very near and dear to all of us, our "paychecks" ;D I think that SloGlo had a Great suggestion that someone should dig up the actual regulation on what it takes for someone to be reinstated, or maybe one of our security brothers or sisters that deals with FFD could chime in with first hand knowledge of the "real deal".

At any rate I'm not going to scold anyone for awhile unless of course someone starts any personal attacks  :o
but I'm sure that won't happen because we are all professionals  ;)

your friendly neighborhood moderator.
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

vikingfan

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #49 on: Sep 07, 2006, 08:29 »
  Great point Eric !! Many of us have been subject too making good money in our early years, and doing foolish things. maybe we smoked a few doobies after work or had way to many beers or jack and cokes also. but as we matured we got married, had kids bought cars and houses and paid are taxes even though unwillingly. since we did things in our past and we changed we are not to forever labeled as bad people or bad workers !!!!

alphadude

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #50 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:17 »
hey if W can go on and be prez after his well known past.. anything is possible
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2006, 09:13 by alphadude »

highradsnake

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #51 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:25 »
I would like to see some more input from "insiders" who can decipher the "real deal" of FFD reinstatements. I am going to drop da bomb ::) I am a unfortunate victim of this subject... Seventeen years in da biz down the drain because of a PRE-employment  drug test @ SSES in spring 2006. The powers at PPL LLC, treated me with more compassion and concern than ANYONE @ B. Blue!! :'( sad but true... I was set-up by my G-friends daughter because she was mad at me for exposing her drug use and PROVED it to her mom and sperm donor of a father... I protected that girl from herself and she repaid me by putting small amounts of POT in my food 3-4 days before I reported to SSES!! I EVEN BEGGED TO BE GIVEN A LIE DETECTOR TEST, but, alas, you know the drill... I am a contractor and I'm #$&%, literally :( >:( Now you know the story... BE CAREFUL OUT THERE... WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT... EXPECT IT!! ;D ;) 8) I hope my story goes to prove that 16 year olds can, and ARE just as conniving as... let's say mob hitmen?!! :-X ;) By the way, I have forgiven my stepdaughter for her treachery. (she's finally away from drugs ;D) The writing was on the wall for a few years that I needed to change careers... she just gave me the "push" I needed to get out... in a strange sorta way?! 8)

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #52 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:57 »
I would like to see some more input from "insiders" who can decipher the "real deal" of FFD reinstatements.

This is what I'm hoping to see also :D I'm sure that there are those folks that are in the security side of things that deal in this all the time that can point us in the right direction and also keep us some what on topic ::)

As stated before this is a highly charged issue in the industry and impacts many of us. The basic rule is, "don't do it", however, if you have been caught for whatever reason...be honest and forthright.

If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #53 on: Sep 07, 2006, 10:09 »
sorry hi rad.  someone in my family was actually killed because of a botched robbery after he was drugged while eating dinner in new orleans at a restaurant he picked out of the blue.  so it could have been worse!  glad you are doing good though...

Offline Dave Warren

  • Radiological Engineer
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 2912
  • Karma: 1574
  • Gender: Male
  • Cubs vs. White Sox in the Series this year.
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #54 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:14 »
Druggies and perfect people....Here you go:

From NRC 10 CFR 26, the document states: The following initial cutoff levels shall be used when screening specimens to determine whether they are negative for the indicated substances:

Initial test cutoff levels (ng/ml)

Marijuana metabolites 100
Cocaine metabolites 300
Opiate metabolites 300*
Phencyclidine 25
Amphetamines 1000
Alcohol 0.04% BAC
*25 ng/ml is immunoassay specific for free morphine.

In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cutoff levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Concentrations which exceed the linear region of the standard curve shall be documented in the laboratory record as "greater than highest standard curve value."

Confirmatory test cut-off levels

Marijuana metabolite 15*
Cocaine metabolite l50**
Opiates: Morphine 300
Opiates: Codeine 300
Phencyclidine 25
Amphetamines: Amphetamine 500
Amphetamines: Methamphetamine 500
Alcohol 0.04% BAC
*Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid.
**Benzoylecgonine
In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cut-off levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.




Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #55 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:22 »
concerning your last post about thresholds, I don't agree Marssim.  I think it is the moral boundary set by our law makers, which was actually born decades ago, that keeps us from re-evaluating.  Even if law makers wanted to set a precedent, they couldn't because they would risk a high chance of not getting re-elected.  Our government has tied its own hands in this case, because of all the bad press MJ has received historically, much of this crap put out by government programs.  So, gov made MJ look worse than it is according to the damage it causes (using Alky as standard, it is legal) decades ago, planting the seeds in young people back in the day who are now voters at present.  Even if there was enough support to change things, it will take decades more to wring out the confirmation bias that exists today.  Mike's attitude is a perfect example of this.  Once people get attatched to an idea, they make it their own and it is a part of them.  Anything that contradicts this idea is thrown-out, while upholding evidence is cherished and put on a special pedestal and given much increased weight.


establishing scientific thresholds an cognitive impairment tests wwould probably be the easy part, and probably have already been done to some degree, in my opinion.

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #56 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:22 »
Druggies and perfect people....Here you go:

From NRC 10 CFR 26, the document states: The following initial cutoff levels shall be used when screening specimens to determine whether they are negative for the indicated substances:


In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cutoff levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cut-off levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.

THANK YOU Brother Dave  ;D

I knew someone would step up to the plate...Karma to ya! Please note folks the part about licensees being able to specify more stringent cut-off levels.
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Offline thenukeman

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1939
  • Karma: 1964
  • Elements Rule Battle , Elementis Regamus Proleium
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #57 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:34 »
When I was a LT in the Army I took up for a specialist who failed the drug test.  The policy was a Field Grade Article 15. 45 day restriction extra duty and 2/3 your pay for 2 months.  He had a family and He and I ask that he be given the 45 days but to keep the money to help his family.  The Colonel said no. I thought what a mean SOB when I was young and a bleeding heart.  But no one else in my group failed the drug test while I was there. I am now strongly in the Colonel's corner. 
I worked mostly DOE.  In DOE it is up to the company if they want to keep you if you fail the drug test as long as they have uncleared work for you.  I have observed mostly 3 companies. One hard nose you get out after you fail and 2 softies.  The hard nose company was given an option to keep a person who failed.  They said no, 0 tolerance and that person went out the door.  The next 2 years no one else failed the drug test.  One softie had a good ole boy who was part of the good ole boy crowd. He failed and failed again.  However they set a pattern.  A female failed.  They fired her, The next week with a threat of law suit she was back in a uncleared position.  She eventually failed again too.  Now everyone is given a second chance for that company so the test is meaningless.  Only one person I know of redeemed himself. Another softie company did the same thing.  Everyone of them failed again or quit.  One guy became a shoplifting supervisor instead of a radcon supervisor.  He got caught eventually.
I worked outages, one outage a person bragged to me that he smokes dope every day and he only works 9 hours a day and claims 12 since he is doing 3 hour jumps. He also takes off a few days a outage but claims them anyway because no one checks.  Being the nonsnitch that I am I listen. But I do not turn him in.  The guards see him behaving eratically and turn him in.  He fails his FFD. My understanding is that the nuke plants have a five year rule which is good.

I am glad that Eric saw the light and is doing well.  I however have turned into the Colonel I despised, because he was right. Chances are a waste of time of companies in my opinion and only hard nose is the answer to make a example and also to keep you out of lawsuits for the majority of the truly ignorant who will do it again. 

Offline hamsamich

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Karma: 1358
  • Gender: Male
  • And did I hear a 9er in there?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #58 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:43 »
I agree with the colonel as well.

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #59 on: Sep 08, 2006, 05:52 »
Well it seems that we have finally gotten everyones opinions out now, I think. So...here's the deal, unless you're posting something relevant to the topic, remember, its "implications for failing a drug test" , then I'm likely to delete it.  :o

This issue raised a lot of hackles but it also had some very good discussion, and I want to thank each and everyone of you for your participation. You are what makes NukeWorker the great site it is.

However, I will have to be the evil hopster as promised  :P and do away any further off topic postings, we have all gotten way too carried away (myself included) and all good things must end.

This discussion probably was better suited for the Polysci area, open only to Gold members, which I would encourage you all to join. Great benefits, low price, and helps to support the site...Good Deal!

Anyway thanks again for the discussion, but now please stay on topic...ok ???

your friendly neighborhood moderator  8)

« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 07:14 by PWHoppe »
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

highradsnake

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #60 on: Sep 08, 2006, 07:33 »
Karma to all on this subject ;D . You know who you are... to Hoppe... de flappy says,"hello" he obviously knows ya from somewhere. To hamsamich... we did converse about this back in the spring..when I first got "hosed", you personally understand the evil that men AND women can and will do... all sympathies to you and yours for the loss of a loved one :'( I will tell ya one thing, IF I EVER HAVE A CAREER WITH A PRE-EMPLOYMENT OR LOTTERY, I WILL ALWAYS HAVE A PERSONAL DRUG TEST DONE BEFORE I PUBLICALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY SCREW MYSELF OVER!!(i.e SSES in 2006)  ;D ;) HEY!! HOW ABOUT DEM STILLERS against Miami last night, eh?! ;D ;D 8) 8) ;) Well, I gots to see a man about a horse!!  ;)







Offline SloGlo

  • meter reader
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 5827
  • Karma: 2646
  • Gender: Male
  • trust me, i'm an hp
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #61 on: Sep 08, 2006, 09:30 »
sum interesting bits and pieces, such as 14 days, 3 years, 5 years, etc., taken from the nrc ffd program as shown @ 
 http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part026/full-text.html#part026-0001

§ 26.24 Chemical and alcohol testing.
(2) No individual may be removed or temporarily suspended from unescorted access or be subjected to other administrative action based solely on an unconfirmed positive result from any drug test, other than for marijuana (THC) or cocaine, unless other evidence indicates that the individual is impaired or might otherwise pose a safety hazard. With respect to onsite initial screening tests for marijuana (THC) and cocaine, licensee management may be informed and licensees may temporarily suspend individuals from unescorted access or from normal duties or take lesser administrative actions against the individual based on an unconfirmed presumptive positive result provided the licensee complies with the following conditions

§ 26.27 Management actions and sanctions to be imposed.
b) Each licensee subject to this part shall, as a minimum, take the following actions. Nothing herein shall prohibit the licensee from taking more stringent action.

(1) Impaired workers, or those whose fitness may be questionable, shall be removed from activities within the scope of this part, and may be returned only after determined to be fit to safely and competently perform activities within the scope of this part.

(2) Lacking any other evidence to indicate the use, sale, or possession of illegal drugs onsite, a confirmed positive test result must be presumed to be an indication of offsite drug use. The first confirmed positive test must, as a minimum, result in immediate removal from activities within the scope of this part for at least 14 days and referral to the EAP for assessment and counseling during any suspension period. Plans for treatment, follow-up, and future employment must be developed, and any rehabilitation program deemed appropriate must be initiated during such suspension period. Satisfactory management and medical assurance of the individual's fitness to adequately perform activities within the scope of this part must be obtained before permitting the individual to be returned to these activities. Any subsequent confirmed positive test must result in, as applicable--

(i) Removal from unescorted access to nuclear power plant protected areas;

(ii) Removal from unescorted access to Category IA Material;

(iii) Removal from responsibilities to create or have access to records or procedures for safeguarding SSNM;

(iv) Removal from responsibilities to measure Category IA Material;

(v) Removal from the responsibilities of transporting or escorting Category IA Material;

(vi) Removal from the responsibilities of guarding Category IA Material at any other licensee facility; and

(vii) Removal from activities within the scope of this part for a minimum of 3 years from the date of removal.

(3) Any individual determined to have been involved in the sale, use, or possession of illegal drugs, while, as applicable, within a protected area of any nuclear power plant, within a facility that is licensed to possess or use SSNM, or within a transporter's facility or vehicle, must be removed from activities within the scope of this part. The individual may not--

(i) Be granted unescorted access to nuclear power plant protected areas;

(ii) Be granted unescorted access to Category IA Material;

(iii) Be given responsibilities to create or have access to safeguards records or procedures for SSNM;

(iv) Be given responsibilities to measure Category IA Material;

(v) Be given responsibilities to transport or escort Category IA Material;

(vi) Be given responsibilities to guard Category IA Material; or

(vii) Be assigned to activities within the scope of this part for a minimum of 5 years from the date of removal.

(4) Persons removed for periods of three years or more under the provisions of paragraphs (b) (2) and (3) of this section for the illegal sale, use or possession of drugs and who would have been removed under the current standards of a hiring licensee, may be granted unescorted access and assigned duties within the scope of this part by a licensee subject to this part only when the hiring licensee receives satisfactory medical assurance that the person has abstained from drugs for at least three years. Satisfactory management and medical assurance of the individual's fitness to adequately perform activities within the scope of this part must be obtained before permitting the individual to perform activities within the scope of this part. Any person granted unescorted access or whose access is reinstated under these provisions must be given unannounced follow-up tests at least once every month for four months and at least once every three months for the next two years and eight months after unescorted access is reinstated to verify continued abstinence from proscribed substances. Any confirmed use of drugs through this process or any other determination of subsequent involvement in the sale, use or possession of illegal substances must result in permanent denial of unescorted access.

(5) Paragraphs (b) (2), (3), and (4) of this section do not apply to alcohol, valid prescriptions, or over-the-counter drugs. Licensee sanctions for confirmed misuse of alcohol, valid prescription, and over-the-counter drugs shall be sufficient to deter abuse of legally obtainable substances as a substitute for abuse of proscribed drugs.

(c) Refusal to provide a specimen for testing and resignation prior to removal for violation of company fitness-for-duty policy concerning drugs must be recorded as removals for cause. These records must be retained for the purpose of meeting the requirements of § 26.27(a).

§ 26.71 Recordkeeping requirements.
Each licensee subject to this part and each contractor and vendor implementing a licensee approved program under the provisions of § 26.23 shall--

(a) Retain records of inquiries conducted in accordance with § 26.27(a), that result in the granting of unescorted access to protected areas, until five years following termination of such access authorizations;

(b) Retain records of confirmed positive test results which are concurred in by the Medical Review Officer, and the related personnel actions for a period of at least five years;

« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 09:31 by SloGlo »
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #62 on: Sep 08, 2006, 10:50 »
OK who here was pre law and can figure that out and put it in terms a nuke can understand? ???
I think what I see for the orignal situation is he would be out 4 two weeks and then second failure would be out four 3 years????
In his case I believe he was fired by the contractor he worked for so many of the actions listed under (2) never happened.  So anyone got any idea where he might stand now??
How would he go about finding out his status?
 Thanks Rob
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 10:51 by ChiefRocscooter »
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #63 on: Sep 09, 2006, 08:05 »
OK who here was pre law and can figure that out and put it in terms a nuke can understand? ???
I think what I see for the orignal situation is he would be out 4 two weeks and then second failure would be out four 3 years????
In his case I believe he was fired by the contractor he worked for so many of the actions listed under (2) never happened.  So anyone got any idea where he might stand now??
How would he go about finding out his status?
 Thanks Rob


Chief...not really as hard to read as you might think, once you get used to it :o That being said, much of this ends up being applied to the "house" people, meaning the ulilities will not send a contractor to the EAP program like they would and do with their own people. I have known where a house person was popped on a wizz quiz and sent to the EAP program and and all was good, he also was subject to "random" testing for a good long time. At the same time a contractor didn't study for his whizz quiz and was summarily sent away. :-\ Fair.. :-\  ???

My advice to the contractor, who was an aquintence, BTW, was to enter into program...get a certificate, and come on back. He opted to go a different route, non-nuke. It's all in what you want to do. :-\
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

Offline SloGlo

  • meter reader
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 5827
  • Karma: 2646
  • Gender: Male
  • trust me, i'm an hp
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #64 on: Sep 09, 2006, 11:23 »
OK who here was pre law and can figure that out and put it in terms a nuke can understand? ???

chiefrocscooter... didja just read the reeders dijest version or go to the url 'n due the original?  itz only fed code.  ain't no worsen part 19 or 20 n@.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #65 on: Sep 10, 2006, 01:10 »
OK OK , I read both the yrl and the clipped section and what I meant by prelaw was did any one think that what I wrote was the correct legal interpetation of what was the situation.  I know the facility can enact stricter rules but I think by what I read he was legaly required (as min) to be booted for 14 days and then treatment and rehab and then allowed to retun to work.  Is that not what we have written??  Now of course this would be min and I would guess his company had seperate rule abiout drug test failures but what I am really trying to find out is if he went and applied now(just three years later) is he legally hireable!  It would appear by what Sloglo provided us with he is technically hireable right now! Does anyone disagree with that ?  If so why?  (please remember I do not mean would anyone hire him as we have gone into some depth on that one already! :D)   
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #66 on: Sep 10, 2006, 08:02 »
Technically, yes legally he can be hired.

Mike

M1Ark

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #67 on: Sep 10, 2006, 08:09 »
Chief,

It also says that anyone removed for 3 years has to prove medically that he has abstained for 3 years from the date of removal.

highradsnake

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #68 on: Sep 12, 2006, 09:44 »
So, you say that you have to PROVE medically that you are now CLEAN and SOBER?? ??? That leaves WAY too much to interpretation.... :P At what frequency do you test to prove cleanliness? With THC, it can be in you up to 45 days...give or take. With drugs like cocaine and most narcotics, it's USUALLY a 72 hour wait to be clean!! My question is what is acceptable to the NRC and, if applicable, the DOE? Should you test every month for MJ.. ??? should you test EVERY week for cocaine? etc, etc... ;D What EXACTLY constitutes the proof that is required!! :o ??? ::) :P Somebody throw me a bone of info., eh?? ;) BTW, to SloGlo, Weez goin' fer da big #6 to start on de udder hand, eh?? ;D ;)

Offline thenukeman

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1939
  • Karma: 1964
  • Elements Rule Battle , Elementis Regamus Proleium
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #69 on: Sep 12, 2006, 05:27 »
Implications of failing drug test,
1. You are Stupid.  You know your going to be drug tested but do it any way.

2. You are Stupid. You know failing a drug test can ruin your career and Reputation but do it anyway.

3. You are Stupid.  You are obviously doing a crime that may put you in jail.

4.  You are Stupid. If you have a family that depends on you.  You may wreck your finances or job opportunities but, do it anyway.

5.  You are Stupid.  You put the company that chooses to employ you in a bind.  They may lose a position if at a Nuke Plant or may appear weak if they give you a chance in DOE land and carry an implication that the company is full of druggies and incompetent.


Feel free to add more implications and you are stupid lines.

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #70 on: Sep 12, 2006, 06:32 »
So, you say that you have to PROVE medically that you are now CLEAN and SOBER?? ??? That leaves WAY too much to interpretation.... :P At what frequency do you test to prove cleanliness? With THC, it can be in you up to 45 days...give or take. With drugs like cocaine and most narcotics, it's USUALLY a 72 hour wait to be clean!! My question is what is acceptable to the NRC and, if applicable, the DOE? Should you test every month for MJ.. ??? should you test EVERY week for cocaine? etc, etc... ;D What EXACTLY constitutes the proof that is required!! :o ??? ::) :P Somebody throw me a bone of info., eh?? ;) BTW, to SloGlo, Weez goin' fer da big #6 to start on de udder hand, eh?? ;D ;)


It's not up to the utility or the NRC to prove a person is clean after they made a stupid mistake that classifies them forever as a worthless druggie. It's up to the junkie individual.

Mike

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #71 on: Sep 12, 2006, 08:39 »
Implications of failing drug test,
1. You are Stupid.  You know your going to be drug tested but do it any way.

2. You are Stupid. You know failing a drug test can ruin your career and Reputation but do it anyway.

3. You are Stupid.  You are obviously doing a crime that may put you in jail.

4.  You are Stupid. If you have a family that depends on you.  You may wreck your finances or job opportunities but, do it anyway.

5.  You are Stupid.  You put the company that chooses to employ you in a bind.  They may lose a position if at a Nuke Plant or may appear weak if they give you a chance in DOE land and carry an implication that the company is full of druggies and incompetent.


Feel free to add more implications and you are stupid lines.


Nawww!!!
Heck, I'd rather consider some of the implications of having other, non-drug-induced, mental impairments.

Y'see, I've never failed a drug test.  Never saw the appeal of illicit drugs.  Getting knee-walking, toilet-hugging, death-inviting drunk on perfectly legal alcohol was all the fugged up I ever needed to get.  Tried the weed twice in H.S.  It didn't get me high, possibly due to inferior quality product but it was disappointing nonetheless and therefore not worth my money.

But, let's talk about some other mind afflictions, shall we?
How about the total incapacity to understand that some people make dumb choices when young that they totally outgrow?  What about the continued assertion that failure of a urinalisys is a "crime" when it has been shown unequivocally that the presence of an illegal substance in one's urine is not evidence of such?  Does this indicate a learning disability?  What about the inability to comprehend that your own "perfection" exists only in your own mind?  Isn't there some diagnosis for that?  How about just plain hypocrisy, huh?  That's not just for preachers who get caught with someone else's wife.  It also applies to people who sign onto an internet forum and start "casting the first stone".

I'd sooner trust my life, my property, and the reactor core to someone who smoked a little dope as a young man than put them in the hands of someome who has his mind slammed so tightly shut that he cannot recognize the possibility that the other guy might have grown up a little.  And it's not just that the latter is a hyppocrite, it is also a matter of maturity.  The former has matured if he has managed to mend his childish ways.  But the only person who can't recognize this growth, or even admit to the possibility, is the one who hasn't been able to grow himself.

So, I can't just pile on with more of those silly "implications" for your list.  But, if you insist, I can manage just once to say, You are Stupid!
« Last Edit: Sep 12, 2006, 08:43 by BeerCourt »
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline TENN-1

  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
  • Karma: 295
  • Gender: Male
  • Finished the 5 year plan in only 34!
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #72 on: Sep 12, 2006, 09:53 »
Great googley-moogley BeerCourt, I'm not sure I understand where you stand on this issue..
Things come to those who wait, but usually it's stuff left over from those who hustle!

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #73 on: Sep 13, 2006, 06:40 »
 >:( AGGGGHHHH!

PLEASE stay on the topic!, we will have to put this thread into the PolySci area, because that is where it is headed!.

Once again our emotions are coming out :o and this is an issue that seems to bring out the best in everybody  ;)

OK people, stay on the topic and let's all try to get along, shall we  ???  ;D

your friendly neighborhood moderator  8)
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2006, 08:32 by PWHoppe »
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

M1Ark

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #74 on: Sep 13, 2006, 07:48 »
So, you say that you have to PROVE medically that you are now CLEAN and SOBER?? ??? That leaves WAY too much to interpretation.... :P At what frequency do you test to prove cleanliness? With THC, it can be in you up to 45 days...give or take. With drugs like cocaine and most narcotics, it's USUALLY a 72 hour wait to be clean!! My question is what is acceptable to the NRC and, if applicable, the DOE? Should you test every month for MJ.. ??? should you test EVERY week for cocaine? etc, etc... ;D What EXACTLY constitutes the proof that is required!! :o ??? ::) :P Somebody throw me a bone of info., eh?? ;) BTW, to SloGlo, Weez goin' fer da big #6 to start on de udder hand, eh?? ;D ;)

I'm sure there are many ways to prove you have been drug free for 3 years but one way comes to mind.  Work for 3 years at a non-nuke facility that administers random drug test and show proof that you have passed all random drug test given to you while employed with that company.  Any other ideas to try to help this guy out?

Offline PWHoppe

  • Forum Staff
  • *
  • Posts: 823
  • Karma: 2024
  • Gender: Male
  • CONFIRMED!: The dumbest man on the planet
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #75 on: Sep 13, 2006, 07:53 »
I'm sure there are many ways to prove you have been drug free for 3 years but one way comes to mind.  Work for 3 years at a non-nuke facility that administers random drug test and show proof that you have passed all random drug test given to you while employed with that company.  Any other ideas to try to help this guy out?

Excellent thought, there are many such jobs out there, such as having a CDL for instance.

Karma to ya M1Ark  ;)
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

Forum rules..http://www.nukeworker.co

highradsnake

  • Guest
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #76 on: Sep 13, 2006, 08:03 »
To PWHoppe and Beercourt... extra karma to yinz ;) I respect both of ya for being able to see BOTH sides of the issue ;D To broadzilla and thenukieman... Well, I'd rather not say my "fitting" response, so I won't... :o :D I think some members SHOULD read the topic over and over until their noggins FINALLY understand ::) ;D

Offline Roll Tide

  • Nearly SRO; Previous RCO / AUO / HP Tech / MM1ss
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1876
  • Karma: 1447
  • Gender: Male
  • Those who wait upon God..rise up on eagles' wings
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #77 on: Sep 13, 2006, 11:30 »
I'm sure there are many ways to prove you have been drug free for 3 years but one way comes to mind.  Work for 3 years at a non-nuke facility that administers random drug test and show proof that you have passed all random drug test given to you while employed with that company.  Any other ideas to try to help this guy out?

CDL would be one route that satisfies this. DOT requirements...
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #78 on: Sep 13, 2006, 12:18 »
There are also voluntary outpatient rehab programs that will admininster periodic testing as a requirement of their program.  Ask your doctor for a referral to one that is run by a hospital.
Of course, your local parole/probation officer might know of other programs that are government run and supervised.  I'm guessing that you might have to pay for any of these services, but it will be worth it to get your "clean" bill of health.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline thenukeman

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1939
  • Karma: 1964
  • Elements Rule Battle , Elementis Regamus Proleium
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #79 on: Sep 13, 2006, 01:14 »
I am keeping it real for people who have failed the drug test.  I am also hoping to help people who may be borderline thinking of taking a few puffs of weed. That they think before they do it and make the right decision.

But you have to ask your self what would an employer do if he has resumes of people, most who have not failed a drug test.  Would he take a chance on a person who failed and potentially look bad if he knowing employs someone who has failed.  I know I would not.  Taking drugs 20 years ago when there was little to no penalty versus today when you know that it is harsh is not a wise decision in this business.  Why would you employ a person who knows the harshness of failing FFD now and does it anyway? Just Keeping it real.

Also for the people who have condemned me for being hardnose,  would you now take illegal drugs knowing you will be drug tested? You do not have to answer, I know the answer is no if you have any sense. Sorry if I offended anyone. I can tell I have because my karma has gotten low!!  LOL This is my last post on this topic. keeping it real and I do not want to offend the moderator.



Offline SloGlo

  • meter reader
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 5827
  • Karma: 2646
  • Gender: Male
  • trust me, i'm an hp
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #80 on: Sep 13, 2006, 10:06 »
the pathways listed for proof of cleanliness are all commendable.  another proof is not having any additional charges lodged against you for said criminal activity.  having reputable people write commendations on your behavior could be another.  there's lots of methods, picking an applicable one would probably be best satisfied by consulting with the area inspector (resident in the case of a power plant) and asking them.  note that the regs do not delineate the prescribed pathway to return.  they only allow the pathway to exist.
highradsnake.... yinz gaught da rite!  knumber too hand iz reddy two phit pher a wring!
« Last Edit: Sep 16, 2006, 09:40 by SloGlo »
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline ChiefRocscooter

  • Heavy User
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Karma: 198
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #81 on: Sep 19, 2006, 09:27 »
Just wanted to let everyone know that the person who I posted this for dropped in and read the comments, good and bad.  He was ammazed at the amount of response and the number of different statements made here.  To keep it short he is thankful and for the information and it will help decide what to do in the future.

Thanks,
 Rob
Being adept at being adaptable I look forward to every new challenge!

 


NukeWorker ™ is a registered trademark of NukeWorker.com ™, LLC © 1996-2024 All rights reserved.
All material on this Web Site, including text, photographs, graphics, code and/or software, are protected by international copyright/trademark laws and treaties. Unauthorized use is not permitted. You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit or distribute, in any manner, the material on this web site or any portion of it. Doing so will result in severe civil and criminal penalties, and will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible under the law.
Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Code of Conduct | Spam Policy | Advertising Info | Contact Us | Forum Rules | Password Problem?