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alphadude

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #50 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:17 »
hey if W can go on and be prez after his well known past.. anything is possible
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2006, 09:13 by alphadude »

highradsnake

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #51 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:25 »
I would like to see some more input from "insiders" who can decipher the "real deal" of FFD reinstatements. I am going to drop da bomb ::) I am a unfortunate victim of this subject... Seventeen years in da biz down the drain because of a PRE-employment  drug test @ SSES in spring 2006. The powers at PPL LLC, treated me with more compassion and concern than ANYONE @ B. Blue!! :'( sad but true... I was set-up by my G-friends daughter because she was mad at me for exposing her drug use and PROVED it to her mom and sperm donor of a father... I protected that girl from herself and she repaid me by putting small amounts of POT in my food 3-4 days before I reported to SSES!! I EVEN BEGGED TO BE GIVEN A LIE DETECTOR TEST, but, alas, you know the drill... I am a contractor and I'm #$&%, literally :( >:( Now you know the story... BE CAREFUL OUT THERE... WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT... EXPECT IT!! ;D ;) 8) I hope my story goes to prove that 16 year olds can, and ARE just as conniving as... let's say mob hitmen?!! :-X ;) By the way, I have forgiven my stepdaughter for her treachery. (she's finally away from drugs ;D) The writing was on the wall for a few years that I needed to change careers... she just gave me the "push" I needed to get out... in a strange sorta way?! 8)

Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #52 on: Sep 07, 2006, 09:57 »
I would like to see some more input from "insiders" who can decipher the "real deal" of FFD reinstatements.

This is what I'm hoping to see also :D I'm sure that there are those folks that are in the security side of things that deal in this all the time that can point us in the right direction and also keep us some what on topic ::)

As stated before this is a highly charged issue in the industry and impacts many of us. The basic rule is, "don't do it", however, if you have been caught for whatever reason...be honest and forthright.

If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

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Offline hamsamich

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #53 on: Sep 07, 2006, 10:09 »
sorry hi rad.  someone in my family was actually killed because of a botched robbery after he was drugged while eating dinner in new orleans at a restaurant he picked out of the blue.  so it could have been worse!  glad you are doing good though...

Offline Dave Warren

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #54 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:14 »
Druggies and perfect people....Here you go:

From NRC 10 CFR 26, the document states: The following initial cutoff levels shall be used when screening specimens to determine whether they are negative for the indicated substances:

Initial test cutoff levels (ng/ml)

Marijuana metabolites 100
Cocaine metabolites 300
Opiate metabolites 300*
Phencyclidine 25
Amphetamines 1000
Alcohol 0.04% BAC
*25 ng/ml is immunoassay specific for free morphine.

In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cutoff levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Concentrations which exceed the linear region of the standard curve shall be documented in the laboratory record as "greater than highest standard curve value."

Confirmatory test cut-off levels

Marijuana metabolite 15*
Cocaine metabolite l50**
Opiates: Morphine 300
Opiates: Codeine 300
Phencyclidine 25
Amphetamines: Amphetamine 500
Amphetamines: Methamphetamine 500
Alcohol 0.04% BAC
*Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid.
**Benzoylecgonine
In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cut-off levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.




Offline hamsamich

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #55 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:22 »
concerning your last post about thresholds, I don't agree Marssim.  I think it is the moral boundary set by our law makers, which was actually born decades ago, that keeps us from re-evaluating.  Even if law makers wanted to set a precedent, they couldn't because they would risk a high chance of not getting re-elected.  Our government has tied its own hands in this case, because of all the bad press MJ has received historically, much of this crap put out by government programs.  So, gov made MJ look worse than it is according to the damage it causes (using Alky as standard, it is legal) decades ago, planting the seeds in young people back in the day who are now voters at present.  Even if there was enough support to change things, it will take decades more to wring out the confirmation bias that exists today.  Mike's attitude is a perfect example of this.  Once people get attatched to an idea, they make it their own and it is a part of them.  Anything that contradicts this idea is thrown-out, while upholding evidence is cherished and put on a special pedestal and given much increased weight.


establishing scientific thresholds an cognitive impairment tests wwould probably be the easy part, and probably have already been done to some degree, in my opinion.

Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #56 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:22 »
Druggies and perfect people....Here you go:

From NRC 10 CFR 26, the document states: The following initial cutoff levels shall be used when screening specimens to determine whether they are negative for the indicated substances:


In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cutoff levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In addition, licensees may specify more stringent cut-off levels. Results shall be reported for both levels in such cases.

THANK YOU Brother Dave  ;D

I knew someone would step up to the plate...Karma to ya! Please note folks the part about licensees being able to specify more stringent cut-off levels.
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

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Offline thenukeman

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #57 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:34 »
When I was a LT in the Army I took up for a specialist who failed the drug test.  The policy was a Field Grade Article 15. 45 day restriction extra duty and 2/3 your pay for 2 months.  He had a family and He and I ask that he be given the 45 days but to keep the money to help his family.  The Colonel said no. I thought what a mean SOB when I was young and a bleeding heart.  But no one else in my group failed the drug test while I was there. I am now strongly in the Colonel's corner. 
I worked mostly DOE.  In DOE it is up to the company if they want to keep you if you fail the drug test as long as they have uncleared work for you.  I have observed mostly 3 companies. One hard nose you get out after you fail and 2 softies.  The hard nose company was given an option to keep a person who failed.  They said no, 0 tolerance and that person went out the door.  The next 2 years no one else failed the drug test.  One softie had a good ole boy who was part of the good ole boy crowd. He failed and failed again.  However they set a pattern.  A female failed.  They fired her, The next week with a threat of law suit she was back in a uncleared position.  She eventually failed again too.  Now everyone is given a second chance for that company so the test is meaningless.  Only one person I know of redeemed himself. Another softie company did the same thing.  Everyone of them failed again or quit.  One guy became a shoplifting supervisor instead of a radcon supervisor.  He got caught eventually.
I worked outages, one outage a person bragged to me that he smokes dope every day and he only works 9 hours a day and claims 12 since he is doing 3 hour jumps. He also takes off a few days a outage but claims them anyway because no one checks.  Being the nonsnitch that I am I listen. But I do not turn him in.  The guards see him behaving eratically and turn him in.  He fails his FFD. My understanding is that the nuke plants have a five year rule which is good.

I am glad that Eric saw the light and is doing well.  I however have turned into the Colonel I despised, because he was right. Chances are a waste of time of companies in my opinion and only hard nose is the answer to make a example and also to keep you out of lawsuits for the majority of the truly ignorant who will do it again. 

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #58 on: Sep 07, 2006, 11:43 »
I agree with the colonel as well.

Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #59 on: Sep 08, 2006, 05:52 »
Well it seems that we have finally gotten everyones opinions out now, I think. So...here's the deal, unless you're posting something relevant to the topic, remember, its "implications for failing a drug test" , then I'm likely to delete it.  :o

This issue raised a lot of hackles but it also had some very good discussion, and I want to thank each and everyone of you for your participation. You are what makes NukeWorker the great site it is.

However, I will have to be the evil hopster as promised  :P and do away any further off topic postings, we have all gotten way too carried away (myself included) and all good things must end.

This discussion probably was better suited for the Polysci area, open only to Gold members, which I would encourage you all to join. Great benefits, low price, and helps to support the site...Good Deal!

Anyway thanks again for the discussion, but now please stay on topic...ok ???

your friendly neighborhood moderator  8)

« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 07:14 by PWHoppe »
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

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highradsnake

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #60 on: Sep 08, 2006, 07:33 »
Karma to all on this subject ;D . You know who you are... to Hoppe... de flappy says,"hello" he obviously knows ya from somewhere. To hamsamich... we did converse about this back in the spring..when I first got "hosed", you personally understand the evil that men AND women can and will do... all sympathies to you and yours for the loss of a loved one :'( I will tell ya one thing, IF I EVER HAVE A CAREER WITH A PRE-EMPLOYMENT OR LOTTERY, I WILL ALWAYS HAVE A PERSONAL DRUG TEST DONE BEFORE I PUBLICALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY SCREW MYSELF OVER!!(i.e SSES in 2006)  ;D ;) HEY!! HOW ABOUT DEM STILLERS against Miami last night, eh?! ;D ;D 8) 8) ;) Well, I gots to see a man about a horse!!  ;)







Offline SloGlo

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #61 on: Sep 08, 2006, 09:30 »
sum interesting bits and pieces, such as 14 days, 3 years, 5 years, etc., taken from the nrc ffd program as shown @ 
 http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part026/full-text.html#part026-0001

§ 26.24 Chemical and alcohol testing.
(2) No individual may be removed or temporarily suspended from unescorted access or be subjected to other administrative action based solely on an unconfirmed positive result from any drug test, other than for marijuana (THC) or cocaine, unless other evidence indicates that the individual is impaired or might otherwise pose a safety hazard. With respect to onsite initial screening tests for marijuana (THC) and cocaine, licensee management may be informed and licensees may temporarily suspend individuals from unescorted access or from normal duties or take lesser administrative actions against the individual based on an unconfirmed presumptive positive result provided the licensee complies with the following conditions

§ 26.27 Management actions and sanctions to be imposed.
b) Each licensee subject to this part shall, as a minimum, take the following actions. Nothing herein shall prohibit the licensee from taking more stringent action.

(1) Impaired workers, or those whose fitness may be questionable, shall be removed from activities within the scope of this part, and may be returned only after determined to be fit to safely and competently perform activities within the scope of this part.

(2) Lacking any other evidence to indicate the use, sale, or possession of illegal drugs onsite, a confirmed positive test result must be presumed to be an indication of offsite drug use. The first confirmed positive test must, as a minimum, result in immediate removal from activities within the scope of this part for at least 14 days and referral to the EAP for assessment and counseling during any suspension period. Plans for treatment, follow-up, and future employment must be developed, and any rehabilitation program deemed appropriate must be initiated during such suspension period. Satisfactory management and medical assurance of the individual's fitness to adequately perform activities within the scope of this part must be obtained before permitting the individual to be returned to these activities. Any subsequent confirmed positive test must result in, as applicable--

(i) Removal from unescorted access to nuclear power plant protected areas;

(ii) Removal from unescorted access to Category IA Material;

(iii) Removal from responsibilities to create or have access to records or procedures for safeguarding SSNM;

(iv) Removal from responsibilities to measure Category IA Material;

(v) Removal from the responsibilities of transporting or escorting Category IA Material;

(vi) Removal from the responsibilities of guarding Category IA Material at any other licensee facility; and

(vii) Removal from activities within the scope of this part for a minimum of 3 years from the date of removal.

(3) Any individual determined to have been involved in the sale, use, or possession of illegal drugs, while, as applicable, within a protected area of any nuclear power plant, within a facility that is licensed to possess or use SSNM, or within a transporter's facility or vehicle, must be removed from activities within the scope of this part. The individual may not--

(i) Be granted unescorted access to nuclear power plant protected areas;

(ii) Be granted unescorted access to Category IA Material;

(iii) Be given responsibilities to create or have access to safeguards records or procedures for SSNM;

(iv) Be given responsibilities to measure Category IA Material;

(v) Be given responsibilities to transport or escort Category IA Material;

(vi) Be given responsibilities to guard Category IA Material; or

(vii) Be assigned to activities within the scope of this part for a minimum of 5 years from the date of removal.

(4) Persons removed for periods of three years or more under the provisions of paragraphs (b) (2) and (3) of this section for the illegal sale, use or possession of drugs and who would have been removed under the current standards of a hiring licensee, may be granted unescorted access and assigned duties within the scope of this part by a licensee subject to this part only when the hiring licensee receives satisfactory medical assurance that the person has abstained from drugs for at least three years. Satisfactory management and medical assurance of the individual's fitness to adequately perform activities within the scope of this part must be obtained before permitting the individual to perform activities within the scope of this part. Any person granted unescorted access or whose access is reinstated under these provisions must be given unannounced follow-up tests at least once every month for four months and at least once every three months for the next two years and eight months after unescorted access is reinstated to verify continued abstinence from proscribed substances. Any confirmed use of drugs through this process or any other determination of subsequent involvement in the sale, use or possession of illegal substances must result in permanent denial of unescorted access.

(5) Paragraphs (b) (2), (3), and (4) of this section do not apply to alcohol, valid prescriptions, or over-the-counter drugs. Licensee sanctions for confirmed misuse of alcohol, valid prescription, and over-the-counter drugs shall be sufficient to deter abuse of legally obtainable substances as a substitute for abuse of proscribed drugs.

(c) Refusal to provide a specimen for testing and resignation prior to removal for violation of company fitness-for-duty policy concerning drugs must be recorded as removals for cause. These records must be retained for the purpose of meeting the requirements of § 26.27(a).

§ 26.71 Recordkeeping requirements.
Each licensee subject to this part and each contractor and vendor implementing a licensee approved program under the provisions of § 26.23 shall--

(a) Retain records of inquiries conducted in accordance with § 26.27(a), that result in the granting of unescorted access to protected areas, until five years following termination of such access authorizations;

(b) Retain records of confirmed positive test results which are concurred in by the Medical Review Officer, and the related personnel actions for a period of at least five years;

« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 09:31 by SloGlo »
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Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #62 on: Sep 08, 2006, 10:50 »
OK who here was pre law and can figure that out and put it in terms a nuke can understand? ???
I think what I see for the orignal situation is he would be out 4 two weeks and then second failure would be out four 3 years????
In his case I believe he was fired by the contractor he worked for so many of the actions listed under (2) never happened.  So anyone got any idea where he might stand now??
How would he go about finding out his status?
 Thanks Rob
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2006, 10:51 by ChiefRocscooter »
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Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #63 on: Sep 09, 2006, 08:05 »
OK who here was pre law and can figure that out and put it in terms a nuke can understand? ???
I think what I see for the orignal situation is he would be out 4 two weeks and then second failure would be out four 3 years????
In his case I believe he was fired by the contractor he worked for so many of the actions listed under (2) never happened.  So anyone got any idea where he might stand now??
How would he go about finding out his status?
 Thanks Rob


Chief...not really as hard to read as you might think, once you get used to it :o That being said, much of this ends up being applied to the "house" people, meaning the ulilities will not send a contractor to the EAP program like they would and do with their own people. I have known where a house person was popped on a wizz quiz and sent to the EAP program and and all was good, he also was subject to "random" testing for a good long time. At the same time a contractor didn't study for his whizz quiz and was summarily sent away. :-\ Fair.. :-\  ???

My advice to the contractor, who was an aquintence, BTW, was to enter into program...get a certificate, and come on back. He opted to go a different route, non-nuke. It's all in what you want to do. :-\
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

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Offline SloGlo

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #64 on: Sep 09, 2006, 11:23 »
OK who here was pre law and can figure that out and put it in terms a nuke can understand? ???

chiefrocscooter... didja just read the reeders dijest version or go to the url 'n due the original?  itz only fed code.  ain't no worsen part 19 or 20 n@.
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Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #65 on: Sep 10, 2006, 01:10 »
OK OK , I read both the yrl and the clipped section and what I meant by prelaw was did any one think that what I wrote was the correct legal interpetation of what was the situation.  I know the facility can enact stricter rules but I think by what I read he was legaly required (as min) to be booted for 14 days and then treatment and rehab and then allowed to retun to work.  Is that not what we have written??  Now of course this would be min and I would guess his company had seperate rule abiout drug test failures but what I am really trying to find out is if he went and applied now(just three years later) is he legally hireable!  It would appear by what Sloglo provided us with he is technically hireable right now! Does anyone disagree with that ?  If so why?  (please remember I do not mean would anyone hire him as we have gone into some depth on that one already! :D)   
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Fermi2

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #66 on: Sep 10, 2006, 08:02 »
Technically, yes legally he can be hired.

Mike

M1Ark

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #67 on: Sep 10, 2006, 08:09 »
Chief,

It also says that anyone removed for 3 years has to prove medically that he has abstained for 3 years from the date of removal.

highradsnake

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #68 on: Sep 12, 2006, 09:44 »
So, you say that you have to PROVE medically that you are now CLEAN and SOBER?? ??? That leaves WAY too much to interpretation.... :P At what frequency do you test to prove cleanliness? With THC, it can be in you up to 45 days...give or take. With drugs like cocaine and most narcotics, it's USUALLY a 72 hour wait to be clean!! My question is what is acceptable to the NRC and, if applicable, the DOE? Should you test every month for MJ.. ??? should you test EVERY week for cocaine? etc, etc... ;D What EXACTLY constitutes the proof that is required!! :o ??? ::) :P Somebody throw me a bone of info., eh?? ;) BTW, to SloGlo, Weez goin' fer da big #6 to start on de udder hand, eh?? ;D ;)

Offline thenukeman

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #69 on: Sep 12, 2006, 05:27 »
Implications of failing drug test,
1. You are Stupid.  You know your going to be drug tested but do it any way.

2. You are Stupid. You know failing a drug test can ruin your career and Reputation but do it anyway.

3. You are Stupid.  You are obviously doing a crime that may put you in jail.

4.  You are Stupid. If you have a family that depends on you.  You may wreck your finances or job opportunities but, do it anyway.

5.  You are Stupid.  You put the company that chooses to employ you in a bind.  They may lose a position if at a Nuke Plant or may appear weak if they give you a chance in DOE land and carry an implication that the company is full of druggies and incompetent.


Feel free to add more implications and you are stupid lines.

Fermi2

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #70 on: Sep 12, 2006, 06:32 »
So, you say that you have to PROVE medically that you are now CLEAN and SOBER?? ??? That leaves WAY too much to interpretation.... :P At what frequency do you test to prove cleanliness? With THC, it can be in you up to 45 days...give or take. With drugs like cocaine and most narcotics, it's USUALLY a 72 hour wait to be clean!! My question is what is acceptable to the NRC and, if applicable, the DOE? Should you test every month for MJ.. ??? should you test EVERY week for cocaine? etc, etc... ;D What EXACTLY constitutes the proof that is required!! :o ??? ::) :P Somebody throw me a bone of info., eh?? ;) BTW, to SloGlo, Weez goin' fer da big #6 to start on de udder hand, eh?? ;D ;)


It's not up to the utility or the NRC to prove a person is clean after they made a stupid mistake that classifies them forever as a worthless druggie. It's up to the junkie individual.

Mike

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #71 on: Sep 12, 2006, 08:39 »
Implications of failing drug test,
1. You are Stupid.  You know your going to be drug tested but do it any way.

2. You are Stupid. You know failing a drug test can ruin your career and Reputation but do it anyway.

3. You are Stupid.  You are obviously doing a crime that may put you in jail.

4.  You are Stupid. If you have a family that depends on you.  You may wreck your finances or job opportunities but, do it anyway.

5.  You are Stupid.  You put the company that chooses to employ you in a bind.  They may lose a position if at a Nuke Plant or may appear weak if they give you a chance in DOE land and carry an implication that the company is full of druggies and incompetent.


Feel free to add more implications and you are stupid lines.


Nawww!!!
Heck, I'd rather consider some of the implications of having other, non-drug-induced, mental impairments.

Y'see, I've never failed a drug test.  Never saw the appeal of illicit drugs.  Getting knee-walking, toilet-hugging, death-inviting drunk on perfectly legal alcohol was all the fugged up I ever needed to get.  Tried the weed twice in H.S.  It didn't get me high, possibly due to inferior quality product but it was disappointing nonetheless and therefore not worth my money.

But, let's talk about some other mind afflictions, shall we?
How about the total incapacity to understand that some people make dumb choices when young that they totally outgrow?  What about the continued assertion that failure of a urinalisys is a "crime" when it has been shown unequivocally that the presence of an illegal substance in one's urine is not evidence of such?  Does this indicate a learning disability?  What about the inability to comprehend that your own "perfection" exists only in your own mind?  Isn't there some diagnosis for that?  How about just plain hypocrisy, huh?  That's not just for preachers who get caught with someone else's wife.  It also applies to people who sign onto an internet forum and start "casting the first stone".

I'd sooner trust my life, my property, and the reactor core to someone who smoked a little dope as a young man than put them in the hands of someome who has his mind slammed so tightly shut that he cannot recognize the possibility that the other guy might have grown up a little.  And it's not just that the latter is a hyppocrite, it is also a matter of maturity.  The former has matured if he has managed to mend his childish ways.  But the only person who can't recognize this growth, or even admit to the possibility, is the one who hasn't been able to grow himself.

So, I can't just pile on with more of those silly "implications" for your list.  But, if you insist, I can manage just once to say, You are Stupid!
« Last Edit: Sep 12, 2006, 08:43 by BeerCourt »
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Offline TENN-1

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #72 on: Sep 12, 2006, 09:53 »
Great googley-moogley BeerCourt, I'm not sure I understand where you stand on this issue..
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Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #73 on: Sep 13, 2006, 06:40 »
 >:( AGGGGHHHH!

PLEASE stay on the topic!, we will have to put this thread into the PolySci area, because that is where it is headed!.

Once again our emotions are coming out :o and this is an issue that seems to bring out the best in everybody  ;)

OK people, stay on the topic and let's all try to get along, shall we  ???  ;D

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« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2006, 08:32 by PWHoppe »
If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a grasshopper with a rubber foot to kick a hole in a tin can?

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M1Ark

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Re: Failed drug test implications?
« Reply #74 on: Sep 13, 2006, 07:48 »
So, you say that you have to PROVE medically that you are now CLEAN and SOBER?? ??? That leaves WAY too much to interpretation.... :P At what frequency do you test to prove cleanliness? With THC, it can be in you up to 45 days...give or take. With drugs like cocaine and most narcotics, it's USUALLY a 72 hour wait to be clean!! My question is what is acceptable to the NRC and, if applicable, the DOE? Should you test every month for MJ.. ??? should you test EVERY week for cocaine? etc, etc... ;D What EXACTLY constitutes the proof that is required!! :o ??? ::) :P Somebody throw me a bone of info., eh?? ;) BTW, to SloGlo, Weez goin' fer da big #6 to start on de udder hand, eh?? ;D ;)

I'm sure there are many ways to prove you have been drug free for 3 years but one way comes to mind.  Work for 3 years at a non-nuke facility that administers random drug test and show proof that you have passed all random drug test given to you while employed with that company.  Any other ideas to try to help this guy out?

 


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