Jr HP Techs

[Gonzo]

Sure seems like there's alot fewer of them now days, and we can't seem to use (abuse?) them like before...   with all the talk about the aging work force, is anyone seeing them bring in the Jrs like they used to?

[UncaBuffalo]

ISU has a 2 year program and and it's rumored EITC is thinking about bringing their program back, so there are a LOT of newbies in the pipeline around INL.  (Esp. since INL doesn't require the RCT to have much experience to be paid Sr. rates...)

How long we would have these technicians to (ab)use as Juniors is open to debate...

[Mike McFarlin]

Seems like not as many as in the past.

[Atomic_Punk]

Sure seems like there's alot fewer of them now days, and we can't seem to use (abuse?) them like before...   with all the talk about the aging work force, is anyone seeing them bring in the Jrs like they used to?

It's hard to get one to abuse when the utilities are only bringing in 4 to 6 juniors for an outage.  Why even bother?

I guess all the house tech's/supervisor's/manager's wives, girlfriends, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and cousins (am I forgeting anyone?) are all Sr. Techs by now, so they don't have the NEED to have Jr. tech positions anymore.

[Whalla2U]

As a Jr HP, what I see is that there just isn't that many Jr jobs.  Have you check the job board the past couple of seasons?  The request for a Jr is few and far between.   Don't get me wrong, there are still Jrs who get the first job openings thru personal connections with company employees.  Recently met a very nice Jr on their first nuke job who had never picked up a meter or even knew what one was.  Failed the company quals test, so couldn't be assigned a job, but was married to a company supervisor.   After spending many leasure paid hours at the plant, was laid off same day I was.  It was upsetting since qualified Jrs wanting to work, but couldn't get in. 

[lowlrc]

Maybe old Bobby Leonard needs to reopen his Nuclear High School.
Than the'll be plenty of JR's ready for action..

[RRhoads]

As a Jr HP, what I see is that there just isn't that many Jr jobs.  Have you check the job board the past couple of seasons?  The request for a Jr is few and far between.   Don't get me wrong, there are still Jrs who get the first job openings thru personal connections with company employees.  Recently met a very nice Jr on their first nuke job who had never picked up a meter or even knew what one was.  Failed the company quals test, so couldn't be assigned a job, but was married to a company supervisor.   After spending many leasure paid hours at the plant, was laid off same day I was.  It was upsetting since qualified Jrs wanting to work, but couldn't get in. 

I dunno...that statement is kinda BS...
the last time i looked at the wish list..there were only 2 sites that were NOT taking Jrs.
Granted, they don't bring nearly as many as they used to.
Does IP still have the program(work there as a Jr between 2 outages till u become an 18.1)..that would be a route for some who want to get their time in.
There are still ways..it took me 4 years of not trying really hard unitl i was close to an 18.1.....but that was the early 90's.

[SloGlo]

iffen yer a <18.1 ansi hp tech, git to anudder nuclear work site than a power plant.  git time in 'n then go to the plants.  while working other type sites, keep yer phone dialed into the plant vendors, 'n yule git a job quicker.  anudder tip, work cheep.  if yer willing to work <rate posted fer a jr n@, yule git the job faster 'n jump the higher priced jrs waiting fer job.  economics 101 rules. 

[RRhoads]

iffen yer a <18.1 ansi hp tech, git to anudder nuclear work site than a power plant.  git time in 'n then go to the plants.  while working other type sites, keep yer phone dialed into the plant vendors, 'n yule git a job quicker.  anudder tip, work cheep.  if yer willing to work <rate posted fer a jr n@, yule git the job faster 'n jump the higher priced jrs waiting fer job.  economics 101 rules. 

Wow...that s**t is hard read'n..been a while since i've been to the 'Trap..but anyway...that "other" hp time don't always count if it's not commercial N power.

[remowil55]

Oh Boy, here i go again. There are jr jobs out there and its not who you know at company so much cause you got about as good a chance as all of us on that court.It does help when you get into a place to make friends that are house. HAVE AND ACE IN THE HOLE.  I have my time in and  have chosen to stay a jr for a while. I wish i could tell everyone what i am going through at this time, but this is not the place and i have no beef with anyone here on Nukeworker as far as i know. But there are no icentives to get into this business anymore, i ask MB about this when he showed up at Farley and ask What was Bartlett doing to get more techs into the Business, i said that no one in his right mind would drive half way across the country to work for no diem and barely above minium wage, and his reply was, "well that's just what they will have to do if they want to get into this line of work," great answer MB. They say were 700 techs short,and they want to build more plants, who the hell are they going to get to run them. I can remember when ANO had 2000 house people, i think they have around 800 now. Now i all pissed off so bye. Remo

[vikingfan]

 I can remember back in the early 90's when jr jobs paid about 2-5$ less than that of sr. deconners. but some people bit the bullet cuz they could get their sr time in 2-3 years. now with outages being 2-4 weeks average it takes someone close to 7 years to make 3.1 so lots of the available bodies either stay decon, get out the biz or swith to a different craft such as laborers, refuelers, or mechanics and such. i mean someone can work as a sr decon and stay at a site longer than an hp so i can understand why they don't switch plus no test... i remember going to ano in 92 and was their basically 7-8 months but those days are few and far in between.

[SloGlo]

that "other" hp time don't always count if it's not commercial N power.

sew sari, rrhoads, butt i'm unaware of the "count" of time for jr hpt, at a power plant or a freeking epa cleanup.  pleez, pull da regs 'n post them so's eye kin get on yer playing feeld. 

[vikingfan]

I know from personal experience and also from talking with fellow co-workers that even though someone was at a decomissing site, nrc regulated site, DOE site ect they will not recieve full credit for any hp related work in contrast to commercial power hp's . even if such worked involved hp coverage of hot cells ect.

[SloGlo]

vikingfan... i thought we wuz talking juniors here.  there is no credit for a junior position that i am aware of.  iffen your counting time for a senior position, ain't that a different deal than why there ain't no freaking junior hps in the field?  i've used juniors lotsa times that had zero time in the field.  when i started as a junior, i had zero time in the field. i stayed in because i saw a future.  the juniors i've had on projects lately haven't.  i've kept in touch with some of them.  quite a few make better money that senior hpt.  'n they have got any more edumakshun or certiffykats than they had when they were working with me.  they just got into other lines of business that aren't dying, like the nukes are.  you want juniors go hire juniors.  then yule have juniors.  iffen ya wanna keep them, that's a different deal.  pay them more, and they will stay. abuse them for cheep, 'n they will leave. 

[Camella Black]

Although I don't work in the field I can tell you from living around it and reading the job requirements as to why there are no new juniors coming up, here are my observations.

1. Look at the outage schedule. You think its rough on seniors, how about people just starting out? Most of these people don't have 2 income families or a nest egg. You expect people to be able to work 1 maybe 2 jobs in the fall and the same in the spring and want to get into this business? Why would they want to train for a job that they have little hope of making a living at?

2. The majority of junior jobs require you to have 6 months+ experience, where are you going to get it? If you get to work 4 outages a year at about 8 weeks per outage that’s 32 weeks a year. You do the math...

3. In my humble opinion we began loosing our juniors when we stopped the practice of hiring wives and other family members to fill in the vacant slots. Remember the days when companies hired family members of techs to fill spaces for clerks, control point/junior and even decon jobs.

You took care of your seniors by giving them an extra income and you built up a pool of future workers. I myself worked several outages years ago but gave it up to stay in one spot and raise children. Heck even my mother back in the late seventies did courier work and delivered film badges.

Finally when you treat juniors with the same respect that you treat senior techs and this rules not only applies to fellow techs, but the utilities and the companies then maybe just maybe you'll get a few more juniors. Offer the same per diem, offer extra training, tell them the truth up front, offer some guidance, be a mentor; after all the junior by your side today just may save your ass one day 

[Mike McFarlin]

Maybe old Bobby Leonard needs to reopen his Nuclear High School.
Than the'll be plenty of JR's ready for action..

Maybe re-open IRM.

[diliigaf]

Maybe re-open IRM.

              Step away from the crack pipe...
    IRM???  Yeah right,let them hold 90% of your overtime as well as you pay ALL the taxes on you your income(self employment) remember Spanky...
    Careful what you ask for....IRM screwed more people then I would like too mention...   

[workinman]

     More with Less! As the industry has decreased outage lengths so have they decreased the ability of a Junior Technician to obtain quality training!  Back in the days when a standard refuel outage was 90 days, a junior could build time.  But now, short outages and even shorter budgets are to blame for a decrease in our replacements.  It does seem like the industry is finally recognizing the obvious need for replacement technicians but is it too little too late?  Linn State's program and the others may help but still the need for junior's to be able to have the opportunity to gain quality experience (job coverage .vs. response checking instruments or pushing laundry buggies) is an ever pressing concern. 
     It always amazed me how most of the utilities that had an RP development training program would allow their (house juniors) to do more than the contract juniors?  Somehow they were always under the mindset that their juniors who were classroom trained in theory and experienced an outage every 18 months were better than contract juniors who were constantly in the thick of things  on the road!  Nothing against house tech training programs (as I am a house tech now) but I'm sure their are more than few ex-contractors who have rolled over that will agree with me-- that many of house training programs have produced senior techs that can quote you theory left and right but couldn't tell how a RX Head is disassembled or re-assembled!  I, like many on this site, were fortunate enough get trained back in the days when things weren't so lean and a junior could actually get some hands on experience!  I feel for the juniors now and hopefully things will change so we can get them the same opportunities that we were given.

[Mike McFarlin]

              Step away from the crack pipe...
    IRM???  Yeah right,let them hold 90% of your overtime as well as you pay ALL the taxes on you your income(self employment) remember Spanky...
    Careful what you ask for....IRM screwed more people then I would like too mention...   

Well thet didn't get me. Actually I did quite well with IRM. And I wasn't the only one.

[Dan_E.]

A Jr will spend his outage time at a control point smearing & clearing without enough time off their assigned duties to follow a Sr around and get some real training. For this they get credit for 50 hours a week toward 18.1 (2000 hours) at outages that lasts 3 to 4 weeks on average and without enough travel pay to come close to breaking even. Gee, why wouldn't everyone be jumping on the bandwagon for this?

[Camella Black]

Well thet didn't get me. Actually I did quite well with IRM. And I wasn't the only one.

I know this is off topic, but...

I too have to come to the defense of I.R.M, not only did they pay us fairly they had a VERY human side. Not once but twice when my father was ill did they come through for my family.

As a teenager when my dad fell ill at Calvert Cliffs (and my mother was in the hospital) I was met at the train station by two techs, Jake Sasser and Steve Romaniwich (sorry for the spelling) who took me back to the local hangout. The site coord arranged for me to room with a couple of women techs, gave me the keys to a rental and $200 someone had gotten together for me to have spending money.

The second time when my dad was diagnosed with cancer I.R.M. kept paying his insurance and when he sadly died there were flowers, cards and phone calls from Bobby and Gary.

[Carolina Jethro]

              Step away from the crack pipe...
    IRM???  Yeah right,let them hold 90% of your overtime as well as you pay ALL the taxes on you your income(self employment) remember Spanky...
    Careful what you ask for....IRM screwed more people then I would like too mention...   

I too have to come to their defense. I went to the school which gave me enough knowledge to get in the plants and then used valuable experience over the next 3 years to get my time in. They were like all other companies in they were out to make money but they helped me out thru some tough times adjusting to the road life.As far as Jr. HP techs, I would not recommend getting in the business to anyone just trying to start out. Even with the huge shortage of techs for this outage season the utilities are putting all the blame on the contract companies. I can see most of the utilities having to go to the co-op system that Duke uses to keep enough seniors available and continue with the using clerks and family to fill Jr tech slots.

[remowil55]

Remo's back, I have to agree with Carmella, about the time of the outages. Most place wont even take one with no experience. I have my time in and still can't get paid the right amount. Like CB said it does take somewhere around i figure 6 to 10 years to be a 3.1.... And i have had more than one discussion about this with RPM's at various plants.The Nuke industry is doing nothing that i can see that is going to cure all the problems for jr's. I have now started to see that it is worth more money to be a Sr. Deconner again. Sr. Decon at the plant i am at now get a 3500 dollar bonus, jr hp's get 1500. Someone tell me where in the hell that is fair. Hell i got several thousand hours as a Sr. Deconner and over 6000 hours of hp time, her at this plant hp's do alot of decon work, i should get both bonuses. I was told by a HP
Supervisor that if a tech spent 20 years working in doe and come over to this side of the business all he can give him is 1 year. He is a junior. Doesn't make any difference what he has on his resume. I really don't see a future for this business, heck 70 percent of the plant out there running are on there last leg, do you see any ground breaking. And your not going too!!!! Quote of the day. "I'm tired of all the BUSHIT." Remo

[Imaginos]

...its not who you know at company so much cause you got about as good a chance as all of us on that court.It does help when you get into a place to make friends that are house.

Um, so which is it?

I have my time in and  have chosen to stay a jr for a while.

                                     and

I have my time in and still can't get paid the right amount.

Again, which is it? Dude, if you're trying to make a point here you consistently send out conflicting messages...

[RRhoads]

The fact is all the utilities see that there is a problem but nobody wants to be the first to really do something about it.
And an earlier post was correct...
Jrs aren't allowed to do what they used to be able to get away with doing as far as getting real experience.
But then you have the other side of the jr story that i've seen first hand...
Jrs not wanting to do anything besides sit a CP or do instrument checks.
Most jrs(not all) but most that i've run across fall into the above category.