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CharlieRock

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More options than just commercial jobs
« on: Nov 09, 2006, 09:34 »
If you're a Navy nuke getting out with a degree, have you ever thought of applying at Bettis or KAPL?  Both outfits are heavily recruiting ex-operators. Bettis I know uses Monster (search company 'Bettis' on Monster).  An EMCM I was good friends with joined Bettis' Operator Training department about a year ago and now he manages a RadCon group.  He thinks the pay is very competitive (with no shift work!)

Charles U Farley

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #1 on: Nov 10, 2006, 10:51 »
What you say surprises me.  Most of my thoughts are based on hearsay, and we all know the validity of that...

Are you specifically talking about RCT's or the CTE's (Crew Training Engineers) at the Prototypes?  I asked a few years ago, and was told that I would not be considered seriously, because I only had the TESC degree.  Now that was for a CTE position.  I was told they favor a formal 4 year program.  From their monster ad, as vague as it can be:

Quote
Have a minimum of a BS Degree in Mechanical, Electrical, Nuclear, or Chemical Engineering. Other engineering and technical degrees will also be considered

I do know that the CTE's pay is not all that it is cracked up to be.  A First Class pulling Sub Pay gets more than a CTE starting.  They do get cyclic bonuses for shiftwork and qualifying SIT, but not enough in my opinion.  And this conversation came up the other day, they don't get all the perks that military guys get.  The little things people forget about (i.e. property/vehicle tax exemptions, base/MWR services...).

I will admit, that I know nothing about the RCT's.  I don't know what their pay or job satisfaction measures up to be.  I'm sure there are other positions within each company that dodge the prototype training bullet, in Pittsburgh or Idaho.  Maybe someone on here is more familiar and can clue me in on those prospects.

From my perspective, I thought about applying to Bettis.  And then I pulled my head out of... well you know...

CharlieRock

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #2 on: Nov 10, 2006, 04:32 »
CTEs make pretty darn good money - their base salary is fairly low at the start (about 4K/month) but their EOOW bonus is great - they get an annual one, a tri-annual one and now they continuation pay for 3 years beyond leaving operations.  Most CTEs (prior to qualifying SIT - civilian Engineer equivalent) make over $60K a year. Just search the internet for starting salaries for EE's and MEs industry wide and you'll find its about 50K a year.  Bettis pays competitively for the industry so just add an EOOW bonus and the pay is pretty good.  Remember, Bettis and KAPL are competing with industries where shift work and operations are not the norm.  Also, remember that base salary if for kids just out of college.  With 8-10 years experience and a degree you can easily start at over 70k/year - not a princely sum but pretty good pay.

Anyway, your TESC degree might be accepted at Bettis in Pittsburgh.  Its a national lab with every possible type of job you can imagine - from computer system admins to RCTs to the guys that design program and operate the simulators (IDEs).  Most of the 3500 people at Bettis (pittsburgh) have never been through prototype.  In fact, ex-operators are highly prized and fought over between the various groups. 

 

M1Ark

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #3 on: Nov 11, 2006, 06:46 »
<snip> With 8-10 years experience and a degree you can easily start at over 70k/year <snip>
 

Wow... all of that money for that much experience?  What will that kind of experience fetch in the commercial nuke world?

Rad Sponge

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #4 on: Nov 11, 2006, 09:17 »
I would say based on personal experience, about the same.

Geographically dependent, though, a post-Navy Nuc operator of any flavor (Ops, Chem, RP) should be expecting no less than 30.00/hr in the North East as a base starting wage.

I think after fully qualifying a commerical nuc should be pulling in >80K annually once you factor in OT, bonuses, step increases, COLAs, etc.

I'll take that over being on that crazy prototype shift work as a CIV. That wasn't shift work, that was rotating insanity.

CharlieRock

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #5 on: Nov 11, 2006, 11:39 »
To be clear, the 70K wasn't for prototype work - it was for a typical 9-5 job in Pittsburgh.  If you want the prototype action, tack on the EOOW bonus as well.  As a data point, a LELT from the USS Pittsburgh started about 6 months ago.  He had a TESC degree and they started him at the above amount in their Pittsburgh training group (working on ELT curriculum).

Rad Sponge

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #6 on: Nov 11, 2006, 03:36 »
To be clear, the 70K wasn't for prototype work - it was for a typical 9-5 job in Pittsburgh.  If you want the prototype action, tack on the EOOW bonus as well.  As a data point, a LELT from the USS Pittsburgh started about 6 months ago.  He had a TESC degree and they started him at the above amount in their Pittsburgh training group (working on ELT curriculum).

I think its a great oppurtunity to work for good better bettis bechtel as a civilian, as well. The more avenues and oppurtunities for outgoing nukes, the better the Navy looks to a vast field of industries that may not realize the full value of a deckplate education over traditional college experience.
« Last Edit: Nov 11, 2006, 03:37 by JMK »

Offline ChiefRocscooter

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #7 on: Nov 15, 2006, 08:43 »
Funny but I got call from headhunter tonight! They are looking to fill a Maint. Manger spot with salary range $60-$75 with bene's and more I guess.  Thing is I has mostly thought only about Nuke but figure well at least I should take a look as it might be worth it (especially if the NLO job never comes through).  I am still mot sure though that I can live without the ability to make power and steam!! I think I a addicited to being a power plant operator! But I guess for the right money I could get myself clean in some kind of no steaming 12 step program :) :)

Rob
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #8 on: Nov 17, 2006, 12:36 »
Wow... all of that money for that much experience?  What will that kind of experience fetch in the commercial nuke world?

Y'know, they can't hear the sarcasm when they read your words on the screen.
If these guys think that $70k is good money for an ex-nuke with a degree, let 'em.  There will be fewer people fighting for the real money.
« Last Edit: Nov 17, 2006, 12:40 by BeerCourt »
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CharlieRock

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #9 on: Nov 17, 2006, 07:10 »
<soapbox> I (at least) caught the sarcasm.  My point is that there are other opportunities than just power generation and (gasp) more important things that the almighty dollar, although everyone has the right to their own value system.  The NR Labs (Bettis and KAPL) do important work for our country, not just in terms of keeping the Nuclear Navy afloat but for civilan types as well.  Not only do both Labs do (and have done) a lot of the fundamental research and design for nuclear power but they've translated that into concrete achievement - let's not forget that the first commercial nuclear power plant was designed by Bettis.  I think that most Navy Nukes have only seen the operations side of the Nuclear Navy - there are other types of work besides operations that are interesting, exciting and can expand your horizons.  As a side benefit you get to work with a lot of smart. motivated folks.  Ever wonder why they made that fuel cell on your boat like that?  The guy who did it is in the next office over - go ask him. He might even talk about when he was an MM2 on Enterprise (okay so only 1 of the core designers was on the Enterprise as an MM2 - you get the point though).
I guess what I sometimes think back to is all the things I noted when I was navy nuke and thought "Now if I had designed this, I'd do it like this..." Well guess what - you have that chance.  Many of the fundamental design issues (everything from pump selection to how the panels are laid out) for the next generation carrier and submarine are being laid out now.  You're not boiling water everyday but your work will help boil water for the next 50 years.  </soapbox>

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #10 on: Nov 17, 2006, 07:40 »
I asked a few years ago, and was told that I would not be considered seriously, because I only had the TESC degree.  Now that was for a CTE position.  I was told they favor a formal 4 year program. 

A lot of employers are realizing they don't have the same pool available they had a few years back. "Happy days are here again..."
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #11 on: Nov 18, 2006, 09:29 »
I hear you Charlie.
I don't remember where or when, but I've advocated some of those same points.  In fact, I've taken them farther.
If you are just in it for the money, there are much higher paying jobs for nukes.  While this thread is basically saying that there are lots of nuclear jobs that aren't commercial, I'm saying that there are lots of non-nuclear jobs that pay better or worse than commercial nuke.  Navy nukes, with or without degrees can land jobs in almost any industry.
Some ex-Navy nukes are attorneys ( I know of two personally).  Some are commercial airline pilots.  I met two who operate a gas-fired cogen plant in California.  There are probably a few who are teachers, artists, ministers, electrical contractors ...etc.  Heck, just being a MM2 will get you a Journeyman card as a Millwright (visit the Carpenters and Joiners Union Local for this) which pays as much as $75 an hour including benefits in some areas.
Not only are you not limited to commercial nuclear, you are not limited to nuclear.  A Navy nuke can do almost any job there is if you give him a little time to learn it.
If it is satisfaction you crave, or something close to home, or a new experience, or the chance to travel, or the chance to never travel again, or just a job you love... you can do it probably better than anyone else.  If it's money you seek, it's there too.
« Last Edit: Nov 18, 2006, 09:32 by BeerCourt »
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Offline flamatrix99

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #12 on: Nov 19, 2006, 12:36 »
Wow... all of that money for that much experience?  What will that kind of experience fetch in the commercial nuke world?

I was thinking the same thing!!!

kevndale

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #13 on: Nov 21, 2006, 09:42 »
Okay so the post was stated that 70k for 8-10 years navy exp was good money and then sarcastic responses about how if you think that is good money that let them because then there will be less people fighting for the good money? Isnt 70k about the starting for the NLO and all? Where is the 'good' money?


Offline Marlin

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #14 on: Nov 21, 2006, 11:09 »
Okay so the post was stated that 70k for 8-10 years navy exp was good money and then sarcastic responses about how if you think that is good money that let them because then there will be less people fighting for the good money? Isnt 70k about the starting for the NLO and all? Where is the 'good' money?



Hopefully you are looking beyond just Ops or even beyond Nuke. Those that I served with have entered a wide variety of profesions and positions since I left the Navy 28 years ago. My shipmates have become hog farmers, a gospel singer, a Chimney Sweep, boiler inspector, shipyard Shift Test Engineer, rad techs, nuke operators, I&C techs, nuke service techs (B&W and Westinghouse), and one is even a nuclear service company president. I myself have been a rad tech, outage management project specialist, Safety Analyst, Nuclear Criticality Safety Professional, maintenance procedure writer, and now a waste specialist. Don't limit yourself and you may want to look at quality of life as much as pay scale.
« Last Edit: Nov 21, 2006, 01:47 by Marlin »

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #15 on: Nov 21, 2006, 03:42 »
Hopefully you are looking beyond just Ops or even beyond Nuke...
 Don't limit yourself and you may want to look at quality of life as much as pay scale.
While I agree with Marlin's sentiment, may I just say that my own experience showed me that I was able to make considerably more money than in other careers the Navy prepared me to enter. I considered such jobs as tire manufacturing assembly line maintenance (a couple of the major companies actively recruit from the Navy Nuke MM and EM ratings to do the maintenance together), HVAC maintenance (less quality of life with call-outs than rotating shifts), and mini-steel mill operator (let's just say that the normal day isn't as pleasant there as the rare day in the Drywell!). It would have been very difficult to make $100K a year in any of those jobs, while you have to turn down OT at some plants to avoid it as a Reactor Operator.

And the quality of life compares well to some of these other jobs.
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Fermi2

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #16 on: Nov 22, 2006, 06:30 »
Uh no Southern Utility is paying 140K in salary to any SRO let alone a 2 year one. Total compensation might come to 140K but about 40 to 50K of that can go away at the utilities discretion.

Mike

M1Ark

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #17 on: Nov 23, 2006, 07:04 »
Uh no Southern Utility is paying 140K in salary to any SRO let alone a 2 year one. Total compensation might come to 140K but about 40 to 50K of that can go away at the utilities discretion.

Mike

LOL. There is at least one guy I know that is and I know him real well.  He doesn't do OT except for one outage lasting six weeks of 72 hrs/week. I'll PM you, Mike.

M1Ark

Fermi2

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #18 on: Nov 23, 2006, 11:44 »
I got it friend. Interesting breakdown.

Thanks,


Mike

Fermi2

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #19 on: Nov 23, 2006, 12:01 »
I am in the agreement that should you choose to stay in nuclear post Canoe Club going anything but commercial is like refusing to graduate from junior high.

Mike

Offline Marlin

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #20 on: Nov 23, 2006, 01:15 »
I am in the agreement that should you choose to stay in nuclear post Canoe Club going anything but commercial is like refusing to graduate from junior high.

Mike

Interesting statement. I assume you have no entrepreneurial aspirations. You have probably heard from more than one contractor that "Happiness is XXXXX plant in the rear view mirror". Its not a statement that is necessarily negative to the plant or facility, there is an exhilaration in change and freedom, I still remember being unemployed and smiling not worried about my next job as a contractor. You have described Navy experience in the past as operating a startup source and not even close to the complexities of a commercial plant. I personally don't see the Navy as the commercial industries minor league farm camp as you do. Mike you clearly have a lot to contribute to this forum, but at times it seems a bit narrow and negative.

"Of course that's just my opinion I could be wrong"
« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2006, 01:16 by Marlin »

M1Ark

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #21 on: Nov 23, 2006, 03:50 »
My navy experience was bittersweet.  There were good times and lots of good quality training.  But lets face it... there were lots of blood, sweat and tears.  It was overall a miserable and painful existance for myself and my family . I had dreams of going non-nuclear post-navy and tried it.  It was hard to not work with nukes and hard when I realized little value was given to my nuke experience except by other nukes.  It's as if I had a 6 year void and non-existance in my life. My co-workers were blown away that I had never heard of Tianaman Square. I tried to explain that I was on patrol and I got a blank look.

I decided to go commercial nuke shortly there after and my 6 year service to my country all of a sudden became relevant again.  Co-workers appreciated stories of my experience. They understood my critical, snide, sarcastic sense of humor.  There was the same kinship and bond that I had remembered in the canoe-club. 

I felt that going non-nuclear trivialized 6 years of my early adult life. 

You don't have to go into Ops.  Any discipline in commercial nuclear power would probably suffice in making the navy nuke experience viable.

Just my .02 cents rollin' on the table.

M1Ark

Offline Marlin

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #22 on: Nov 23, 2006, 06:58 »
My navy experience was bittersweet.  There were good times and lots of good quality training.  But lets face it... there were lots of blood, sweat and tears.  It was overall a miserable and painful existance for myself and my family . I had dreams of going non-nuclear post-navy and tried it.  It was hard to not work with nukes and hard when I realized little value was given to my nuke experience except by other nukes.  It's as if I had a 6 year void and non-existance in my life. My co-workers were blown away that I had never heard of Tianaman Square. I tried to explain that I was on patrol and I got a blank look.

I decided to go commercial nuke shortly there after and my 6 year service to my country all of a sudden became relevant again.  Co-workers appreciated stories of my experience. They understood my critical, snide, sarcastic sense of humor.  There was the same kinship and bond that I had remembered in the canoe-club. 

I felt that going non-nuclear trivialized 6 years of my early adult life. 

You don't have to go into Ops.  Any discipline in commercial nuclear power would probably suffice in making the navy nuke experience viable.

Just my .02 cents rollin' on the table.

M1Ark


Well said, and heart felt. I have had simular experiences.

Marlin

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #23 on: Nov 23, 2006, 07:17 »
There is a certain understanding and kinship among people who have similar life experiences.  I know that I understand Navy nukes better than someone who hasn't been one could.
I'll give you an example.  I just finished a job with a craft labor superintendent who happened to have served on the same sub that I did, only 10 years earlier.  He's a Good 'ol boy from Georgia with a heavy southern accent and a homespun sense of humor.  The average New Yorker would immediately categorize this guy as a backward hick with the intelligence of a wrench.
However, I understand what it took to graduate NPS and serve as a nuke on subs.  Add to that the fact that this individual managed to do so during the Viet Nam War, and you cannot conclude that he is other than brilliant.  Just getting into the Navy during that time was difficult.  Getting into the nuke pipeline despite the competition during that era was far more difficult than it was during my time of cold war expansion of the nuclear sub fleet.
Knowing this about this person, and having this understanding of him, gave me a distinct advantage over the "average New Yorker".  Being an ex-Navy nuke puts you into a very exclusive club where only the members know the true meaning of membership.
For this reason, most Navy nukes come out and find work among other Navy nukes.  We understand each other and are more likely to succeed among those who appreciate what we have to offer.
« Last Edit: Nov 23, 2006, 10:39 by BeerCourt »
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Offline flamatrix99

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #24 on: Nov 24, 2006, 06:04 »
Being an ex-Navy nuke puts you into a very exclusive club where only the members know the true meaning of membership.

Very well put!!

kevndale

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #25 on: Nov 29, 2006, 04:45 »
Choosing to go commercial is like not graduating from junior high? I look at it as viewing all kinds of different options for my high school and then choosing the one that offers the best overall package. Maybe commercial nuclear power has a crappy high school that I dont want to go too.

kevin

StuckRod

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Re: More options than just commercial jobs
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2007, 03:31 »
Uh no Southern Utility is paying 140K in salary to any SRO let alone a 2 year one. Total compensation might come to 140K but about 40 to 50K of that can go away at the utilities discretion.

Mike

LOL.  Maybe a SENIOR OSM....maybe.  Southern sites have a lower cost of living than say the Cali or some of the Northeast sites so the straight salary numbers aren't as high BUT those dollars go a lot further.  140K at Farley would probably make you the mayor of Dothan.

Maybe I'm in the dark on new SRO salaries, but that sounds a little high.  People need to be a little more realistic and genuine.  Regardless, the South/Southeast is still where it's at in my opinion.  Good people.  Good cost of living.

 


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