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Would a Co-Op company of Nukeworker.com radtechs succeed, with input listed in this thread?

Yes
31 (46.3%)
No
36 (53.7%)

Total Members Voted: 32

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Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #75 on: Oct 27, 2007, 11:34 »
Ok let me jump in on this one for a minute. Let's face the facts everyone wants a pay increase. What is the number one thing that goes up for us on the road and everyone else the cost! inflation!! You guys are missing the point, PERDIEUM!!! It's the only direct pass through, costs Bartlett nothing other than check processing fees and it's a write off for the utilities. We still get well under the Federal Government rate at most sites. Utilities! want to staff your outage fast and with the creme off the crop pay $150.00 a day and see what happen's.  ;D Let's face we should be payed like any other skilled trade at a site but until that day, give me cold hard cash, green backs ;) It would be nice to stay at a 5 star hotel without chewing up your whole per dieum check. After all utilities pay USA tech's Federal Rate of Per Dieum :o
When I was on the road I never got more than 50 a day in per diem, even though the government rate was a lot more. I'm not sure of the tax law on per diem, but can't you claim the difference in the per diem you get compared to the per diem that is allowed on your taxes?

Offline rocknrollrick

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #76 on: Oct 27, 2007, 12:25 »
Yes you can but it isn't the same as getting the cash :P
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Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #77 on: Oct 27, 2007, 12:52 »
The cash is always better, but that amount of per diem that is allowed is a pipe dream and writing off the difference is a way to offset what your not getting.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #78 on: Oct 27, 2007, 03:29 »
NO! NO! NO!
You can NOT write off the amount you are not getting as a tax deduction.  I'm not going to explain this again.  Use search.
I'd like to know what stupid son of a Junior Senator from New York came up with this bull$@!t.

By the way, "most sites" are located in rural counties far away from big cities.  (There is a reason for that).  This means that the normal US Nuclear Power Plant or DOE site is located in an area where the standard government per diem rate is only $109 as of 10/1/2007.  It was $99 before that.  This includes Salem/Hope Creek, where you are probably getting more than $109.  You are not getting as ripped off as you think.  At the most, you are probably getting $5 - $15 below the GSA rate.  Quit crying.  You don't spend it all anyway.  According to the tax law, you have to give back to your employer what you cannot account for.  Try actually getting paid for your work what it is worth.  (For some of you, this might mean a huge pay cut.)
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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #79 on: Oct 27, 2007, 04:40 »
Damn it EB, you got me to chime in!

From my perspective, Diablo, (mentioned above), is the front runner in compensation for the industry’s RP/HP technicians, they also have a very unique hiring practice, (they get what they want, not what they get)!  Looks like the Spring season is most definitely going to bring some interesting staffing challenges for all of the utilities, all but one!

What Percentage should the Technicians Receive; Let the numbers do the talking!

Diablo's temp staff receives 100% of the utilities rate and usually staffs 100%, (with another 100%+ waiting in the wings)!  How many Health Physics OE's have we read from Diablo over the last decade?  How many regulatory issues have we read pertaining to Diablo’s Health Physics program?  Besides the compensation, I've heard that the utility maintains an atmosphere that is GENUINELY cordial, cooperative, friendly and professional which is a VERY RARE EXCEPTION in the Industry today.  I'm not sure of the actual returnee rate, but I've heard unverified rumors of 100%!  How about the experience and technical level of the up coming staff, (collectively and the per capita average)?  The baby of the bunch is probably going to come it at 15+ years experience.  I'm not sure who created this relationship, but it is refreshing to finally see a program maintained under a real professional venue!  It's probably just a California thing, and wont work anywhere else!       

Now the others side:  The technicians receive approximately 70% of the total billing rate and most facilities find themselves looking to fill a staffing deficit of 30% at crunch time, (some at a much higher rate)!  Resume reviews have become fairly simple, 4000 or 6000 hours and not much more!  Of course there is a plethora of excuses that get assigned to the staffing situation; the primary excuse being the number of available Technicians in the industry, (compensation packages and facility atmosphere are ridiculous considerations)!  Is there an actual shortage of technicians in the industry?  Obviously the answer is yes, but not to the extent that some advertise.  The factual statement would be a shortage of experienced technicians.  Agree or not, as the staff experience level increases, the necessary volume of the staff can decrease, you don’t have to pay people to watch people!  Sorry to say, but a greeter and repeater doesn’t account for field experience!  How many OE’s and regulatory issues have we read from these sites?  The required reading, at some sites, is running a close second in size to a New York phone book!  One has to also consider the reception at a lot of facilities; Contractors are Events waiting to happen!  Sadly enough I can’t supply a lot of opposition to those comments, the past year has brought many events that reinforce those opinions. I can safely say that the majority of those events are directly related to the individuals experience level.  I could beat this one to death, but it's all been said and read before. 

One has to wonder way Diablo doesn't have these problems?  I believe the West Coast approach should be a strong consideration in today’s market, since many of the utilities have a multi-site structure, why not hire as direct temps?  You can't argue that concept, considering that Big Blue was the front runner with the CORE concept. Maybe it’s time for a utility Fishing Expedition!  An open communications venue between the technicians and the utilities, internet based.  I believe a lot of utilities would be impressively surprised at the response and the actual resources still available in the industry.  After all requesting a resume, with verifiable references, isn’t a formal a contract, so why not give it a try!  Obviously the “it can’t be done” suggestion has been put to rest, because it is being done!
 
Mike, great information on the associated costs, you made it looks so simple.  Not that I would be privileged to any contract information, but why does it take between 30 to 50 pages to outline the bottom line details?

Have a Great Day....RG   8)


Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #80 on: Oct 27, 2007, 05:46 »
At Diablo Canyon we get an entry level wage (for a house HP) and federal rate perdiem. We also have the same deal where overtime and double time is concerned as the house techs under their union contract. This equals what we think is a big fat paycheck. What it really equals is the deal that we should be getting at all utilities. This Diablo deal is still minus any bene's like health insurance, a real 401K, pension etc. but it is the best in the business.

Other than the fat paychecks, there is a culture of hard work and respect. The management lives up to all of the promises that they make and not just the ones that suit them. If they promise you that you will be on site for 5 weeks and 3 days, you can count on being on site for 5 weeks and 3 days. In return for being treated with respect they require that we do the same in the form of hard work and taking initiative. I have worked with many of the techs that work Diablo at several other sites over the years. Most all of them are good techs no matter where we have worked together but most are SUPERSTAR techs when they are at Diablo. It is amazing the level most will rise to when they are treated fairly.

The comments about perdiem that we are only $5 - $15 below GSA rates is not an arguement and I don't believe it to be true. My next site I will be over $60/day below the Federal rate and I am nearly $50/day below at my current site. All of this is beside the point. If the Federal rate is $135/day then we should get $135/day, end of story.
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Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #81 on: Oct 27, 2007, 08:30 »
NO! NO! NO!
You can NOT write off the amount you are not getting as a tax deduction.  I'm not going to explain this again.  Use search.
I'd like to know what stupid son of a Junior Senator from New York came up with this bull$@!t.


I don't remember asking you to explain. But seeing that you did anyway, the information given like all the information on this site is greatly appreciated. It would be a lot better without your crappy attitude. Lighten up!

Offline rocknrollrick

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #82 on: Oct 28, 2007, 09:07 »
According to the tax law, you have to give back to your employer what you cannot account for.  Try actually getting paid for your work what it is worth.  (For some of you, this might mean a huge pay cut.)



Mr.Beercourt,

Having worked with you in the past, your statement speaks for itself. It surely holds true,
even a Blind Squirel can find a nut once in a while :P Blessed are they who go around in circles for the shall be called BIG WHEELS ;D
« Last Edit: Oct 28, 2007, 12:08 by rocknrollrick »
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #83 on: Oct 28, 2007, 04:28 »
Hi Rick.  You know? .... I don't think we ever actually worked "together".  We were at some of the same outages when I was  a House Mouse, and we saw each other a few times at Calvert.  This hardly constitutes working together.  If you were on one of my crews at Ginna, all I can say is that I don't remember it.  So, your performance could not have been that bad.  I haven't judged you or the quality of your work here in the public pages of this site, and you are not the slightest bit qualified to do so to me.  If you feel that the comment about a pay cut was directed at you, I must point out that it was directed there by you - not me.  I would not presume to do such a thing.  I have no information on the quality of your work (as you have none about mine) so it would be unfair of me to make such a judgement.  Would it not?

Anyway, my point stands.  Per diem is a small fraction of what you should be earning.  Quit playing around with the horse crap of trying to wring a few bucks a day in per diem when you should be trying to get the hourly rate that you deserve.  The only people who should object to that are the ones who think that they deserve less than what they are getting now.  I don't think that anyone here fits that category.
« Last Edit: Oct 28, 2007, 04:32 by BeerCourt »
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #84 on: Oct 28, 2007, 04:42 »
xobxdoc,
sorry about the 'tude, dude.  I just got a little frustrated because I have spent a lot of time and effort here to help people prevent the potentially costly mistake of taking phantom tax deductions for some per diem that they thought that they should get. It only takes one post here to open that can of worms again.

Anyway, the issue isn't really deductions or taxes.  It is people who are (for the most part) underpaid looking to settle for peanuts when they should be ordering some steaks.  Even an extra $50 a day in per diem would mean only an extra $7500 a year in take home pay to people who should be making 40 grand more than they are per year.  Per diem is crumbs.  Go for the cake!!


Did I stick enough metaphors and analogies in there, or is there room for one more.  I notice that they are all food-related (except for the worms).  It must be close to supper time.
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Offline SloGlo

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #85 on: Oct 28, 2007, 08:40 »
all tho i have know problem with earning moor per our, it has all waze bin my point of contenshun dat iffen der is a per diem rate published four an area, dat is da rate dat shood bee payed.  no questshuns, no lies.
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Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #86 on: Oct 28, 2007, 08:53 »
xobxdoc,
sorry about the 'tude, dude.  I just got a little frustrated because I have spent a lot of time and effort here to help people prevent the potentially costly mistake of taking phantom tax deductions for some per diem that they thought that they should get. It only takes one post here to open that can of worms again.

Anyway, the issue isn't really deductions or taxes.  It is people who are (for the most part) underpaid looking to settle for peanuts when they should be ordering some steaks.  Even an extra $50 a day in per diem would mean only an extra $7500 a year in take home pay to people who should be making 40 grand more than they are per year.  Per diem is crumbs.  Go for the cake!!


Did I stick enough metaphors and analogies in there, or is there room for one more.  I notice that they are all food-related (except for the worms).  It must be close to supper time.

When the frustration is gone...you make much sense. You are exactally right on these points. I still think that we need to get fed. rate diem but it really is about the hourly wage. "Hey, great news, we got the perdiem up $10/day this outage!" Big freakin' deal! We are owed the Federal rate so why should I be happy for anything less? And why does perdiem continue to be a point of negotiation? Perdiem is not pay!!! Lets talk about the fact that we rental techs get paid like un-skilled labor workers.
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Offline Rennhack

Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #87 on: Oct 28, 2007, 11:44 »
rental techs get paid like un-skilled labor workers.

Commodities.

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #88 on: Oct 29, 2007, 05:55 »
When the frustration is gone...you make much sense. You are exactally right on these points. I still think that we need to get fed. rate diem but it really is about the hourly wage. "Hey, great news, we got the perdiem up $10/day this outage!" Big freakin' deal! We are owed the Federal rate so why should I be happy for anything less? And why does perdiem continue to be a point of negotiation? Perdiem is not pay!!! Lets talk about the fact that we rental techs get paid like un-skilled labor workers.
Troy ain't wrong very often.
As to why rental tech get paid like unskilled laborers, I see it as a two pronged problem. The most obvious reason is, of course, rental techs will work for unskilled rates. The bean counters who run all the plants these days ain't interested in quality, just numbers.
The second part of it is that if the "real techs," the ones who've got the knowledge and experience won't work for low wages, the plants will just bring in a bunch of marginal or sub-marginal techs, do what they have to so the resumes reflect whatever time the plant's tech specs require them to have and pay them like the unskilled laborers they are.
The reasons for the problem are pretty clear, it's the answers that are hazy.

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #89 on: Oct 29, 2007, 08:50 »
perdiam is not suppose to be take home pay

 if you want more perdiam-spend more you are allowed to take the CONUS no matter what you are being given in perdiam.. just do some simple documentation.  As for being owed the rate.. i assume that somebody forced you to take the rate given?  If you are alluding to the a certain company has taken their profit from the perdiam difference.. well thats true. when i dealt with them we paid the full rate, they had a lower hourly bid to get the contract, and they paid lower perdiam to make up for their lower bid difference taking it as profit. Why do u think the previous owner got almost 110million when he was bought out?


As for wanting pay-remember the ANSI standard calls for 2 years experience and 3 years experience that is what the pay grade is based on.. there are no other increments to hang your hat on!!  So why should utilities pay more for something they can get for cheaper money??  (they only need 3 yrs experience and they have met the standard) 

As for "substandard techs" what is your standard? Do you mean below the ANSI standard or some standard that only exists in somebodies mind??

Its convoluted and the only thing(s) that makes sense is:

1. Settle for the pay grade because what else can you do to get those wages?

2. Go to school and advance yourself and move on.

3. Stop stirin the pot when there is nothing in the pot.

4. Continue to make yourself miserable and die young!

These issues are so old they are dressed in double knit with a white belt.

Play the hand that was delt, or fold.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #90 on: Oct 29, 2007, 09:37 »
perdiam is not suppose to be take home pay

 if you want more perdiam-spend more you are allowed to take the CONUS no matter what you are being given in perdiam.. just do some simple documentation.  As for being owed the rate.. i assume that somebody forced you to take the rate given?  If you are alluding to the a certain company has taken their profit from the perdiam difference.. well thats true. when i dealt with them we paid the full rate, they had a lower hourly bid to get the contract, and they paid lower perdiam to make up for their lower bid difference taking it as profit. Why do u think the previous owner got almost 110million when he was bought out?


As for wanting pay-remember the ANSI standard calls for 2 years experience and 3 years experience that is what the pay grade is based on.. there are no other increments to hang your hat on!!  So why should utilities pay more for something they can get for cheaper money??  (they only need 3 yrs experience and they have met the standard) 

As for "substandard techs" what is your standard? Do you mean below the ANSI standard or some standard that only exists in somebodies mind??

Its convoluted and the only thing(s) that makes sense is:

1. Settle for the pay grade because what else can you do to get those wages?

2. Go to school and advance yourself and move on.

3. Stop stirin the pot when there is nothing in the pot.

4. Continue to make yourself miserable and die young!

These issues are so old they are dressed in double knit with a white belt.

Play the hand that was delt, or fold.

Good post.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #91 on: Oct 29, 2007, 09:39 »
"3. Stop stirin the pot when there is nothing in the pot."

Good point.
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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #92 on: Oct 29, 2007, 03:00 »
perdiam is not suppose to be take home pay

 if you want more perdiam-spend more you are allowed to take the CONUS no matter what you are being given in perdiam.. just do some simple documentation.  As for being owed the rate.. i assume that somebody forced you to take the rate given?  If you are alluding to the a certain company has taken their profit from the perdiam difference.. well thats true. when i dealt with them we paid the full rate, they had a lower hourly bid to get the contract, and they paid lower perdiam to make up for their lower bid difference taking it as profit. Why do u think the previous owner got almost 110million when he was bought out?


As for wanting pay-remember the ANSI standard calls for 2 years experience and 3 years experience that is what the pay grade is based on.. there are no other increments to hang your hat on!!  So why should utilities pay more for something they can get for cheaper money??  (they only need 3 yrs experience and they have met the standard) 

As for "substandard techs" what is your standard? Do you mean below the ANSI standard or some standard that only exists in somebodies mind??

Its convoluted and the only thing(s) that makes sense is:

1. Settle for the pay grade because what else can you do to get those wages?

2. Go to school and advance yourself and move on.

3. Stop stirin the pot when there is nothing in the pot.

4. Continue to make yourself miserable and die young!

These issues are so old they are dressed in double knit with a white belt.

Play the hand that was delt, or fold.

I agree with some of this but...

It sounds like we should just accept what we are given and thats that? I don't think that is the stance we should take at all. Yes, this issue is at least as old as I have been doing this type of work but the age of the issue does not make it a non-issue. The biggest reason that we accept this pay is because there are too many that are too hungry. Most could not sit out on the plants that deserve it to help drive the pay up.

Nothing in the pot? Seems like there was a little in the pot when comparing the late 90's and early 00's. Pay went up a few bucks on average and the perdiem rate went from an average of $50 - $60/day (where it was stalled for nearly a decade) to almost double that amount.

As far as a "sub-standard tech"...Ya, I don't know what that definition is either. I don't care what field you are in and what qualifications you need to be there, you will always find a profound difference between the "best of" and the "worst of".

What else can I do for 20 something an hour?

Clean carpets
Work on a production line
Drive a delivery truck
Clean offices
Drive a fork lift in a warehouse

or...I can join the labor union and tote tools.
« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2007, 04:31 by Bat Man »
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #93 on: Oct 29, 2007, 05:38 »
the only answer for me in the long run is #2 there alpha.  this is a world of supply and demand.  always will be.  we can all talk about what things OUGHT to be like, and a little of that is good. but reality is the obvious: we will continue to be paid what we will accept.  if a banana is worth 49 cents, that is what will be paid for it.  if these companies can get us at 23 bucks an hour, that is what is going to happen.  scarce resources will drive the price up, and the only good answer for me to make myself scarce is to diversify my qualifications; ie, do something else. if I don't like 23$ an hour I have to become an orange, which I am working on. when enough people decide to do something else, then the price will go up, or an alternative product will be purchased, which is being tried at some plants with varying success.

I like what I am being paid right now to continue to do this job.  But it isn't high enough for me to stop pursuing higher paying alternatives.

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #94 on: Oct 29, 2007, 06:03 »
AMEN

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #95 on: Oct 29, 2007, 09:24 »
sew, iffen yer wanting to improve a rent-a-tech (copyrighted term there, very poor form) company whinell wood ya be advocating use of minimum quals, i.e. 2 or 3 years experience?  minimum qualed shood git minimum pay, but iffen ya gots 15 years experience of dune outage work, operational plant werk, 'n kin pass yer tests wit out cramming fer three daze, pleez tell me why ya shoodant git payed moor?
 becaws ya shood study 'n git a better job?  eye wood say 15 years is alot of studying.  git a better job?  sum peeps dew knot like desk sitting, either at da chair or under da desk.  butt it seams as tho desk jockeys all got da same educashunal backround, 'n it's about 8.5x11" 'n got a frame round it.  iffen ya gots two, ya git da chair.
« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2007, 09:32 by SloGlo »
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Offline rocknrollrick

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #96 on: Oct 30, 2007, 09:15 »
Illegalsmile makes a good sound point!! ;DYou got love when people think and make a valid point. Let's face it people, we are a evil that is mandated by the NRC. If it were up to the plants we would all be out of a job. Tech companies have seen this coming and have been slow to respond to the supply and demand thing. ;D
 Why doesn't Big Blue and other companies take more of an interest in training their employees giving more direction for career advancement. Would this not benefit the company as well as the individuals who make up the product of manpower. ::) Most companies don't even know what other skills their employees posses. I think anyone that is in the business greater than 5 years is worth investing time in. Well time to wake up and get this plant on line.

ps. Troy, nothing personnal you're a fun target, we all need to remember where we came from to appreciate what we have now :P   
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2007, 09:19 by rocknrollrick »
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Offline xobxdoc

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #97 on: Oct 30, 2007, 04:11 »
Maybe you should use the search button to see if I had already been reprimanded for making such a cardinal sin as asking a question. Lighten up Francis!

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #98 on: Oct 30, 2007, 07:20 »
I guess I could be labeled as part of the problem.  I am willing to accept a lower wage than I believe I deserve.... why ??? 2 reasons, 1 - I have a family to support and this job offers a better time off vs work time balance, 2 - I am searching for a home....

'nuff said, I have grown tired of being on the road, especially after my navy years.  I long for a steady house job in a location that I and my family likes.

As for the "subpar" techs ????? I don't know how best to respond.  I know I always try to give my best and work my share... is it wrong to ask that other do the same (thats another 89% for you to pony up Jimbo   :P)

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Re: Rent-a-tech company improvements?
« Reply #99 on: Nov 06, 2007, 06:43 »
I am in for the IEBW union where do i sign! does anyone have info for me? they can e-mail me at comoronald1@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2007, 04:59 by Rennhack »

 


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