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Would You support a nationwide IBEW Union, and sign a card?

Yes
102 (52.3%)
No
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jjordan

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Rent a tech Union debate
« on: Dec 17, 2006, 10:46 »
Hmmmm, sounds like the IBEW may be able to help! 8) What do ya'll think? I know that the last time, it was poorley organized by a few self serving individuals. :'( The contractors need it way more than the house techs. I still haven't forgotten where I came from. ;) I want to know if anyone is interested, and would you be willing to help? ??? It's a lot of work, but with a lot of support it would be much easier.We are already disscussing/ working on it. If we do it again, we need to succeed this time. It shouldn't cost the contract companies much, and think about it. If they are working on a percentage, it benefits them also. The increases should mainly be absorbed by the utilities, who are the main culprits anyways. They set all of the rules by contract. They want it for as little as possible, which is good business! But it's time once again to try to get a fair deal. It's way harder now with the shorter outages, to make enough to support a family. Don't look for them to volunteer any extra money, or benefits. We have to go get it for ourselves! Watch our website for a link real soon.(pgnunion.com) It'll help get you in touch with the right people , and get the ball rolling. A lot of you still may remember me from a previous life, and I hope you trust me. Trust is important here! I'm already taking a lot of heat, and a little more isn't going to matter too much to me at this point. :P Lets get on with it! ;)
JJ
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2006, 10:18 by Rennhack »

Offline RRhoads

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #1 on: Dec 17, 2006, 12:50 »
well..that might no be a bad idea & communication would be better this time around w/ cell phones & internet & stuff.
And with only 1 big company & 1 medium size company to deal with, the outcome could be different!
Good Luck!

RADBASTARD

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #2 on: Dec 17, 2006, 05:07 »
SCREW THE I.B.E.W. !!!!!  Those ratbastards didn't do squat for us the last time,no direction,no guidence,and we got no benie's nada!

I told them get any other union in the beginning,because I belong to that union for 7 years before and I saw it in action and I didn't like it a bit.
I didn't care if we got a toliet scubbing union to represent us,anybody but the ibew
I was a huge supporter in the strike and what we were doing.I walked at crystal river.

I would love to see more  matching 401k contributions since we have no pensions and covering more of our med.  cobra costs more,oh yeah money ,god I know i should lay off the crack pipe but it keeps calling me back.

I still support it but most techs are older,self centered,and are to afraid to do it again.The ones that wern't afraid to do it the first time,we know who the ones that didn't.

O and most seemed to be as broke as the day they started ,god knows why???????????

PS: I know i'll get hate mail for this peace out.
« Last Edit: Dec 17, 2006, 10:08 by RadBastard »

Offline Camella Black

Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #3 on: Dec 17, 2006, 06:07 »
SCREW THE I.B.E.W. !!!!!  Those ratbastards didn't do squat for us the last time,no direction,no guidence,and we got no benie's nada!

I told them get any other union but them in the beginning,because I belong to that union for 7 years before and I saw it in action and I didn't like it a bit.
I didn't care if we got a toliet scubbing union to represent us,anybody but the ibew
I was a huge supporter in the strike and what we were doing.I walked at crystal river.

I would love to see more  matching 401k contributions since we have no pensions and covering more of our med.  cobra costs more,oh yeah money ,god I know i should lay off the crack pipe but it keeps calling me back.

I still support it but most techs are older,self centered,and are to afraid to do it again.The ones that wern't afraid to do it the first time,we know who the ones that didn't.

O and most seemed to be as broke as the day they started ,god knows why???????????

PS: I know i'll get hate mail for this peace out.

My hubby walked at Hatch, I was there and recorded it for the world to see. I even turned it in to WRDW tv in Augusta GA who did run it as a news story. I attempted to have it picked up by the AP but actually recieved a letter from them that due to wire constraints they could not do it.

I don't know about it being a lack of organization, but there was an inablility to allow the country as a whole to realize that this (the walkout) was happening all over the country. I was here in Barnwell fielding questions from the west coast asking if it was really going on. Yes I believe that with the net, cell phones and amatuer news sources more attention would be given.

As far as "O and most seemed to be as broke as the day they started ,god knows why???????????" I believe it is a combination of several factors; a cut in the amount of time we work, lack of benefits (so we pick up the slack),not enough money or raises compared to other industry and the outrageous amount of money many of us were forced to pay out while traveling for years (I can remember paying 800.00 or more a month in rent as far back as the mid 80's).

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #4 on: Dec 17, 2006, 09:10 »
If we can't make money doing it this way ourselves, how would we expect any other company to do so?

ware have i herd this before?  wotinell wuz the name of the group back ina 70s day da had ccnpp 'n a cupla (maybe) udder plants fer themselves?  weren't no company, simply an affliation of hp techs.
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RAD-GHOST

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #5 on: Dec 18, 2006, 07:48 »
Dat be the Co-Op's! 

Basiclly everybody involved is an equal partner, an employee owned business!  That couldn't happen today, or could it?

RG

Offline Marlin

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #6 on: Dec 18, 2006, 09:14 »
Dat be the Co-Op's! 

Basiclly everybody involved is an equal partner, an employee owned business!  That couldn't happen today, or could it?

RG

The pay for the CoOp was very good for its day but in practice only a few did the work for the group and the rest were just along for the ride. In an odd way it was a union as we acted as our own barganing unit but signed individual contracts. A few of us went to the same outage afterwards to try and keep it alive but you need participation of all of your members to make a go. Independence is a hallmark of the roadtech this makes unions or Co-Ops difficult.

diliigaf

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #7 on: Dec 18, 2006, 10:46 »
Dat be the Co-Op's! 

Basiclly everybody involved is an equal partner, an employee owned business!  That couldn't happen today, or could it?

RG
                  :-[ I'm disappointed RG I expected more from you...   

            Oh well,,,,,

Atomic_Punk

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #8 on: Dec 18, 2006, 04:51 »
Hmmmm, sounds like the IBEW may be able to help!
JJ


No offense, but, no thanks.  They extorted enough money from me in the past.

(when I was a contractor)
« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2006, 04:54 by Colonel Angus »

Offline ShovelHeadRed

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #9 on: Dec 18, 2006, 05:55 »
...IBEW...JJordan where were you last time?,,,a few self serving individuals what are you talking about....you know as well s I do a union for Rent-a-techs wont work, because we are all too individual,,,we cant organize,,think about it..on a job..you have 2 techs on the job,,3 in, 3 out..you do it your way, your 3 hours, I do it my way my 3 hours,,,day shift comes in they do it one way for 3 hours then a different way the next 3 hours,,,did I loose anybody here.....we cant agree on anything...the union didnt work....SCE&G voted in a union a few years ago, only to vote it out within 1 year...Spanky,did I get off subject?....improvements..I like the deal at,, was it San onofree(spelling)..where they cut out the companys all together and paid us as individual contractors, that didnt last either...the only thing in this business that has lasted, is we dont and will never agree on many things,,and BARTLETT,,he was there at the start,,and he is still here..he has the work, he has the benefits, he sets the rules, play by them or get out..thats it..Spanky you got something started here..and got me started...I worked for Bartlett at SGRP in 94 as ALARA..he treated me well..havent worked for him since  or prior to that...only because it wasnt necessary..but this isnt about BARTLETT is it,,,,improvements...Cash perdiem, rent-a-cars, double time on sunday at union plants..oh I just slipped back to the 80's, we had that..with RAD, and we complained about it......red
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jjordan

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #10 on: Dec 18, 2006, 08:56 »
Hmmm, I've seemed to have whacked the proverbial Hornets nest. Lets see I I can help you all, try to pull together for once. You all have to stop being individuals, and learn to work together. The man knows you have difficulties so he keeps you at each other. Col Angus. How much money have you given the IBEW directly. I haven't given them anything. They've given me plenty. Finacially, and information, and education. They don't advocate striking, that is a last resort. That's why I said we were misguided the last time. We walked out the first thing, never negotiated squat. Where was I? I was at Davis Besse, with Don Feddern as site coordinator working for Bartlett. Oh and I was the shop steward. It was a union contract. Shovelhead, I have nothing but praise for Mr. Bartlett, I went through some really bad times with him. He was great the entire time. He doesn't dictate the amount that the utility pays, It's all bid on, and most of the time, low man wins the right to take a percentage of the money you make. If we all work together, and get something going here, the same percentage of a higher amount means more money for any, or all of the contract companies. It won't cost them any extra to do this, so why fight it? The utilities will have to pony up the extra money. You are about to see some bidding wars start, best pay staffs first and best. Not enough techs to go around! Oh by the way, I don't know how involoved Bruce is anymore, but it's nowhere near the same level as before. He sold part of his share. If he was still in 100% he would have had ALL of the contracts, he was the MAN. SCG&E will vote the IBEW in the next time, trust me. Lots of unfullfilled promises. It can be done but it ain't going to be easy. :-[
« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2006, 09:01 by JJordan »

jjordan

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #11 on: Dec 18, 2006, 11:16 »
GWB, No problem, everyone's entitled to his or her opinion. Why don't you feel that a union would be beneficial? Just Curious. I think that a union could do a lot of good things for us!
JJ ;)

Offline ShovelHeadRed

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #12 on: Dec 19, 2006, 05:46 »
..JJ..sounds like you know more than I do..and I am the first to admit it, I never worked a union job until 1985....and if a union is run for the right reasons,,,the worker,,,it is good....had I been born, or worked union jobs, I would be union,,,,since 1991 I have either worked as a supervisor, ALARA or for a refueling company, no union tie...thank you for the information....I am sometimes uninformed, misinformed and always deformed...so again your knowledge about unions was appreciated on my part,,,,red
"A government
big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take
everything you have.." Thomas Jefferson

"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.  If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel" - BB. (Benjamin Netanyahu)

.....Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'!!!!!!!!!!!!

illegalsmile

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #13 on: Dec 19, 2006, 06:33 »
this seems to have taken a "union - pro or con" sideroad, so let me say, I'm not a union man....never was - never will be. but we need to accept that we can get together, organize and cooperate, or we can let the utilities and the contract companies give us "do it our way or get out" packages. The contract world is very competative and in order to get contracts a company has to bid low and that means cutting 'production' costs. Since we are the product, they have to market us more cheaply....and we all know what that means. The only option is if we get together and agree not to work for less than XYZ. Good luck wi'dat.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #14 on: Dec 19, 2006, 06:46 »
A union is a bargaining agent. The last attempt to unionize was done badly from the stand point of the Union and the stand point of the techs. The last attempt to organization was supported by 5 or 6 agents from the IBEW national office with requested help from the locals with mixed results. On the tech side there was little organization and it seemed as though there was no concept of the level of commitment that was required. In addition even though the IBEW had locals that organized in house technicians its first draft of a proposed contract included provisions on workers tools, breaks, and other blue collar issues that did not fit well into what I would consider a technicians job description. The strike itself was for recognition of the union, only the first step. Many cards of intent were signed by technicians to show commitment and the ratio of the workforce that supported it, not an easy thing for a national union with no locals (IBEW1500). The support on the lines did not match the number of cards signed, apparently it was easier to sign a piece of paper than to stand up when needed. I heard from a number of craft who did not cross the lines and were very disappointed in the outcome and said that they would not support a future effort losing more income. In most sites there was no support at all from other unions.
  
   If you want a union you have to:

          Organize

    Everyone should be on the same page, this would require a leadership with a clear vision of what needs to be done and the realities of the making it happen.

          Plan in advance

   You need to know what your resources are and how they will be used and communicate to everyone involved.

          Provide a benefit to the employer

   Why should the contract companies even talk to you, they are at this time your bargaining agent and your employer. What sacrifices or guarantees are you willing to make to provide a service that is worth dealing with a union. (At one plant while working in Outage Management the union was a mixed blessing as we could take credit for the apprentice programs on worker qualifications and the union agreed to allow those with current plant qualifications to move to the head of the line, however the labor cost was the largest part of the project budget.)

  I don't see this happening. Sorry to be pessimistic but these do not seem like things that a lot of independent thinking road techs would be willing to do.

"Of course that is just my opinion, I could be wrong"

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #15 on: Dec 19, 2006, 08:09 »
Since we are the product, they have to market us more cheaply....and we all know what that means. The only option is if we get together and agree not to work for less than XYZ. Good luck wi'dat.

what jjordan said...the same percentage of a higher amount means more money for any... 'n wit a union, a union plant must take the most competitive bid of union companies.  that is language in their contracts with their own peeple.  which is why at a lot of union plants you must join a union.  your joining satifies the language of the contracts that are in force.  iffen there was a contract nukeworker company that was union, it would have the inside track on the bidding, it would have to be competitive with itself and the utility's rates.  it would not have to be very competitive with the other companies in the bidding.
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Offline retired nuke

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #16 on: Dec 19, 2006, 08:42 »
'n wit a union, a union plant must take the most competitive bid of union companies.  that is language in their contracts with their own peeple.  which is why at a lot of union plants you must join a union.  your joining satifies the language of the contracts that are in force.  iffen there was a contract nukeworker company that was union, it would have the inside track on the bidding, it would have to be competitive with itself and the utility's rates.  it would not have to be very competitive with the other companies in the bidding.

Not true here at ole VY - house are union, contractors aren't - and there is no clause in the contract that even encourages it that I'm aware of....This is an "open shop" state, but we do have a "closed shop" clause in the contract for VY folks. Just no restrictions on contractors.
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jjordan

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #17 on: Dec 19, 2006, 09:40 »
Naw I don't think so. It would bring lots of improvements (healthcare, pension, training, and so much more!) that's what the topic is or was! :P

stownsend

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #18 on: Dec 21, 2006, 08:33 »
After watching Cool Hand Luke last night all I have to say about the Union representing us is "I think we have a failure to communicate here".

Offline Mike McFarlin

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #19 on: Dec 21, 2006, 11:52 »
Too many individuals, difficult to organize. Would be the "cats meow" if it could be done, I just don't think it will ever happen. Great if it does.
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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #20 on: Dec 23, 2006, 09:01 »
Not true here at ole VY - house are union, contractors aren't - and there is no clause in the contract that even encourages it that I'm aware of....This is an "open shop" state, but we do have a "closed shop" clause in the contract for VY folks. Just no restrictions on contractors.

mebbe, but lotsa udder contracts are worded different, for da benifit of da unions.
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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #21 on: Dec 23, 2006, 10:55 »
   having been thru the previous strike and given the current international security environment i greatly fear the possibility of an outcome resembling that of the air traffic controller strike of 1984...



Offline HydroDave63

Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #22 on: Dec 23, 2006, 01:01 »
   having been thru the previous strike and given the current international security environment i greatly fear the possibility of an outcome resembling that of the air traffic controller strike of 1984...


I think you mean 1981...I have worked with several of the "Class of '81" in my current job field.

However, I think you are on to something here. Right now the debate seems confined to 1. how many pounds of flesh techs COULD get out of that big ol' utility, and 2. whether a certain union can get it for them.

That strategy works for a while, and I'm sure there are quite a few Ford vehicle painters and upholstery installers with a boat in the driveway that did pretty well with it. But it is not sustainable as a business strategy, either for the employer or the unions. Either the labor productivity has to increase as much or greater than the benefit rise sought, and/or company profits greater than benefits cost, or exclude/minimize competition that has a relative advantage of either. As Akio Morita, founder of Sony, said it best: Business is war.

In this union debate context, we need to show the employer the added value of using the union labor for best results for least time or money resource expended. If we only chase the angle of getting MORE out of the customer, it is no secret that they can get Health Physicists with Masters degrees from several different countries with plant experience, who would would gladly live 3 to a trailer working 7/12s for 1/2 your pay. Not fair....I agree, but currently, "fair" gets defined by lobbyists in 3000 dollar suits telling fibs to Congressmen with 200 dollar hairdos.

Do I think that a rad tech union could benefit in working against this? Heck yes...I am currently a shop steward where I work, and have joined as a dues payer in every shop/job where a union is offered. But the prospect of success is low, when we bargain as if this is 1950s America Uberalles-swimming in cash, and your union benefits are a small invisible part of huge profit margins. This is the 21st century, The Man will go above or around you. Google the Goodyear strike in progress.

What we need is a national bargaining representative working on the other issues mentioned above: Minimize/justify why in a post-911 America foreign techs are needed, and is sufficient background done , union should provide/sponsor training courses so that any duespayer can start as a deconner and become 3.1 with documented classroom/hands-on training, grievance/Unfair Labor Practice representation (big bonus bucks dont help if you are escorted offsite with an adverse PADS entry, never able to Red Badge again, wouldn't you at least like some due process there?). I didn't forget healthcare...who better would have the advantage of a large group plan, a handful of freelance radtechs...or techs under the umbrella of a national union?

But the ball is in our court...what value would we add to the customer as a union workforce?

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #23 on: Dec 23, 2006, 01:54 »
   thankyou for the correction...1981 air traffic controller strike...

   

Offline RRhoads

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Re: Rent a tech Union debate
« Reply #24 on: Dec 23, 2006, 04:47 »
well...the bottom line is that :
1- it takes "x" amount of $$ to make company "A" run & turn a profit.
2- So,there IS more money available.
Direct hire rent-a- techs make more per hr. than say Alantic group pays..IE Diablo, Columbia..
Again, there is more money in the pipe line, just a matter of where it goes..
Could a union negotiate a higher wage ...possibly..Bartlett does "deal" with Unions...Clinton for example..Their wages have consistently been higher because of the union + extras like shift differential.
So the union "idea" has been put in to action somewhat....the obvious is that there is no representation..but the wages are higher, well IMO where they should be/have been.

 


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