NukeWorker Forum
Career Path => Nuclear Operator => Topic started by: Cycoticpenguin on May 18, 2011, 11:42
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We have our comprehensive exam in a couple weeks, and Im trying to get a "practice test" together for some of the weaker students to help them practice. If anyone has a good source, please lemme know.
Right now im sifting through the NRC fundamentals exam bank, but most of the questions are out of the scope for us.
Courses ->
Math -> through basic trig
Heat Xfer, fluid dynamics, thermo
basic chemistry
reactor physics
reactor theory
detectors and controllers (I & C stuff)
classical physics
AC and DC theory
material science
Thanks in advance if anyone can help.
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If you are taking a multiple choice test, there is an art to them.
1) If you have two answers that are opposites, usually one of those in the answer.
2) The longest answer is mostly likely the correct one, especially if it is exceeding longer than the other ones. Remember, people have to make up wrong answers, so they tend to keep them short.
3) When in total doubt, "C."
4) If two answers are correct and you have "all of the above" that is the one you choose.
5) If it is NRRPT and "Compton's Scattering is a choice, that is most likely the answer (they love CS).
6) Responses that use absolute words, such as "always" or "never" are less likely to be correct than ones that use conditional words like "usually" or "probably."
7)"Funny" responses are usually wrong.
8) Look for grammatical clues. If the stem ends with the indefinite article "an," for example, then the correct response probably begins with a vowel.
9) Look for verbal associations. A response that repeats key words that are in the stem is likely to be correct.
i.e Who is responsible for the electrical maintenance?
a) electrician b) mechanic c. rad con, d) QA
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No disrespect intended, and I appreciate the advice to me :) BUT this really isnt for me :D Im just looking for general questions so I can make practice tests for the weaker students instead of "writing my own". A couple guys are struggling, and Id like it if they didnt get fired like the other couple. Just trying to prepare them as much as possible, you understand.
I will pass your advice down though :)
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Charlie,
Help me out here; I'm really confused by your post. Specifically about the part that says that most of the questions in the NRC exam bank are out of scope... Am I missing some key information to where that will make sense. Are you not talking about the NRC Generic Fundamentals examination? If you are, I can tell you that doing past exams was about the best thing that members in our class did. I think I ended up doing eight of them, and when the comprehensive came around I had already seen half the questions. Like I said, maybe I'm missing something.
Good luck and keep us posted,
Bradley
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Our EO classes cover GFES but stop at the company final... seems you guys are taking a watered-down version? Allenmurrow.com is useful to prepare random GFES tests but I realize that may not be helpful. Helping others with specific problems or general operational experience is one thing, but it's not your job to go over and above like that. Why don't you speak with the EO Lead Instructor about them having practice quizzes prepared or some form of an exam bank to study from? If you don't get the response you expect, try speaking to the SOS or another Ops manager about how training is failing you and the rest of your group. If you don't get the desired response at that level, quit.
Still feel this way?
I applied at several hiring excelon plants and never heard back. I work at entergy, a much better company ;) As justin says, ignore my posts
Some might argue that the only truth in this statement was the last three words...
I bet the fired few wish they hadn't received that call...
Entergy likes to call people back in my experience ;)
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I think Charlie's class is a NLO class, not an initial license class. Thus the reason the NRC exam bank questions are 'out of scope'.
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Our EO classes cover GFES but stop at the company final... seems you guys are taking a watered-down version? Allenmurrow.com is useful to prepare random GFES tests but I realize that may not be helpful. Helping others with specific problems or general operational experience is one thing, but it's not your job to go over and above like that. Why don't you speak with the EO Lead Instructor about them having practice quizzes prepared or some form of an exam bank to study from? If you don't get the response you expect, try speaking to the SOS or another Ops manager about how training is failing you and the rest of your group. If you don't get the desired response at that level, quit.
Still feel this way?Some might argue that the only truth in this statement was the last three words...
I bet the fired few wish they hadn't received that call...
You are way out of line here. I dont need to hear you say Im not doing my job when Im helping others pass their classes. Its not your decision to fire/hire anyone here, you dont work here, you dont know the story. Telling me to quit when I can take care of something like this in my own capacity is equally outrageous.
Allow me : "7. Organizational learning is embraced." Management here has given the expectation that struggling students are to seek assistance through instructors, management, AND peers. Instructors give us practice problems. We've done all the practice problems they have.
Basically, Im looking for a college level multiple choice reference (found a couple through google) in the scope of an NLO class.
Bradley535 -> As belyse states, Im a lowly NLO :D. The NRC bank is 1000 pages long and a good chunk of those questions dont apply to us yet :D Our BWR tech school will bring a lot more of that in play when we get there, we're just finishing up fundamentals in a couple weeks.
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I just took the GFES final last week. From what I have learned the NRC exam bank has questions of varying difficulty. Although all of our questions came from the NRC I do think this will benefit the people in your class whom are struggling. Download the exam bank on to your computer narrowed by topic i.e not components but sensors and detectors. Ask your peers what kind of questions they have been missing and do a word search for them. On top of the question there will be a k and a number that will correlate to similar questions. If you pm me I can even give you the exam banks with detailed instructions on how to do every problem. I have them on my pc.
Josh
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If you are taking a multiple choice test, there is an art to them.
1) If you have two answers that are opposites, usually one of those in the answer.
2) The longest answer is mostly likely the correct one, especially if it is exceeding longer than the other ones. Remember, people have to make up wrong answers, so they tend to keep them short.
3) When in total doubt, "C."
4) If two answers are correct and you have "all of the above" that is the one you choose.
5) If it is NRRPT and "Compton's Scattering is a choice, that is most likely the answer (they love CS).
6) Responses that use absolute words, such as "always" or "never" are less likely to be correct than ones that use conditional words like "usually" or "probably."
7)"Funny" responses are usually wrong.
8) Look for grammatical clues. If the stem ends with the indefinite article "an," for example, then the correct response probably begins with a vowel.
9) Look for verbal associations. A response that repeats key words that are in the stem is likely to be correct.
i.e Who is responsible for the electrical maintenance?
a) electrician b) mechanic c. rad con, d) QA
Are you in Ops?
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If you are taking a multiple choice test, there is an art to them.
1) If you have two answers that are opposites, usually one of those in the answer.
2) The longest answer is mostly likely the correct one, especially if it is exceeding longer than the other ones. Remember, people have to make up wrong answers, so they tend to keep them short.
3) When in total doubt, "C."
4) If two answers are correct and you have "all of the above" that is the one you choose.
5) If it is NRRPT and "Compton's Scattering is a choice, that is most likely the answer (they love CS).
6) Responses that use absolute words, such as "always" or "never" are less likely to be correct than ones that use conditional words like "usually" or "probably."
7)"Funny" responses are usually wrong.
8) Look for grammatical clues. If the stem ends with the indefinite article "an," for example, then the correct response probably begins with a vowel.
9) Look for verbal associations. A response that repeats key words that are in the stem is likely to be correct.
i.e Who is responsible for the electrical maintenance?
a) electrician b) mechanic c. rad con, d) QA
Are you in Ops?
No, I doubt it BZ. In fact anyone using his method would fail our tests.
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No, I doubt it BZ. In fact anyone using his method would fail our tests.
Disagree. Some of these methods are exactly what one can use on the GFES exam.
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No, I doubt it BZ. In fact anyone using his method would fail our tests.
Thank you.
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Disagree. Some of these methods are exactly what one can use on the GFES exam.
Justin, I am refering to our "OPS" tests. Is that not what we are talking about? GFES is a different animal. Everyone that failed out of systems, at my plant, passed GFES just fine.
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Justin, I am refering to our "OPS" tests. Is that not what we are talking about? GFES is a different animal. Everyone that failed out of systems, at my plant, passed GFES just fine.
I concur when it comes to ops tests and systems.
However, considering CM is talking about his class being in general fundamentals, I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that namlive's tips were referring to that test. Which, we all know, is full of patterns and "when it says this... the answer is C" type of questions.
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I concur when it comes to ops tests and systems.
However, considering CM is talking about his class being in general fundamentals, I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that namlive's tips were referring to that test. Which, we all know, is full of patterns and "when it says this... the answer is C" type of questions.
Understood.
CM I can't give you any of the tests I've seen due to security protocols and what not. Sorry, you'll have to use your company's quiz bank. I don't have a lead on any other material to offer. It's good you are helping. Just don't let it frustrate you or frazzle you.
Mac
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I'm currently getting straightened out on the difference as well thanks to Justin.
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Disagree. Some of these methods are exactly what one can use on the GFES exam.
He said Our tests. By that I believe he means a real NRC, Audit, and training exam. Those methods wouldn't work.
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gentlemen, swords away please :D. Hes just trying to help, and a lot of his advice is somewhat practicable to NLO stuff. however, if you dont understand the difference between transitions and conversions, not much help to be had by that :D
Mac- > I know, most of your stuff would be above and beyond anyway. Im lookin for fundamentals stuff at a college level. I've always been more concerned about people understanding the subject vs "knowing the answer". If you understand it, you can usually derive your own, correct, answers that way. Im not going to get frustrated about this kind of stuff, because as A F stated, its really not my job to do this. That said, Ive never heard of a "company quiz bank" o.O.
thank you again guys.
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I will say that I have passed many exams cold, some in fields in which I have little knowledge using these methods. I have also found exceptions to every one of my methods except for the grammar aspect. Some test makers are smart enough to use (s) or a(n) on their words, most are not. SRS for example has gotten away from "C" answers and use "A" or "B" answers more heavily unless you take the first-aid CPR exam then there are no "B" answers in their 20 question exam. "All of the above" is still a favorite gimme question on GET type exams attempting to qualify people whose first language may not be English.
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I think most utilities use a program, such as VISION, which automatically shuffles the answers of questions. Also, we know about things like long and short answers, and so try to make them approx the same length. Wish I could help you with the questions.. All the utilities have question banks. But the utilities for whatever reason don't want to put their questions out there. I think it's a pretty good thing for you to try and help the stragglers.. Test taking is a skill that some never master, and as you move up from ILO to RO/SRO, that ability to take multiple choice exams is pretty important.
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Either I am correct about multiple guess tests or I really do have an IQ of 150.
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Either I am correct about multiple guess tests or I really do have an IQ of 150.
Multiple guess? Mike and Mac are right, you've never taken an operator's exam.
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namlive, sounds like how I take my advancement exams in the navy.
I assumed that operator exams at a civilian plant would be like nuke tests in the navy: here's x number of questions, hope your hand doesn't cramp up before you're done.
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namlive, sounds like how I take my advancement exams in the navy.
I assumed that operator exams at a civilian plant would be like nuke tests in the navy: here's x number of questions, hope your hand doesn't cramp up before you're done.
Not even close lol.
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namlive, sounds like how I take my advancement exams in the navy.
I assumed that operator exams at a civilian plant would be like nuke tests in the navy: here's x number of questions, hope your hand doesn't cramp up before you're done.
LOL Heck no. Why would they be? Navy exams don't test knowledge or understanding. They test your ability to regurgitate.
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LOL Heck no. Why would they be? Navy exams don't test knowledge or understanding. They test your ability to regurgitate.
This is true in the pipeline. In the fleet however, I'd say it has more to do with your social networking skills....
I remember asking how the heck I failed and then being told that I failed because I wasn't onboard for the RCOH. Fortunately for me, my upgrade was already signed when they handed it to me.... Ahh, Fleet Standards..... That of course changed a few headlines later....
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This is true in the pipeline. In the fleet however, I'd say it has more to do with your social networking skills....
I remember asking how the heck I failed and then being told that I failed because I wasn't onboard for the RCOH. Fortunately for me, my upgrade was already signed when they handed it to me.... Ahh, Fleet Standards..... That of course changed a few headlines later....
you're misunderstanding. Speaking of advancement exams. Some how, they make these multiple choice tests "difficult" for people, and its not even the same caliber. That said, NLO exams are far easier then power school exams, at least for me anyway.
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you're misunderstanding. Speaking of advancement exams. Some how, they make these multiple choice tests "difficult" for people, and its not even the same caliber. That said, NLO exams are far easier then power school exams, at least for me anyway.
Do they look like the stuff in the DOE handbooks? Is it plant specific tests or theory type stuff? Have enough of your people failed out that they need a new class yet? ;)
(I am not cheering against anyone to fail for the record, I'm sure they all have mortgages and kids and failing was probably a sad day for them)
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Do they look like the stuff in the DOE handbooks? Is it plant specific tests or theory type stuff? Have enough of your people failed out that they need a new class yet? ;)
(I am not cheering against anyone to fail for the record, I'm sure they all have mortgages and kids and failing was probably a sad day for them)
Kinda. We have fleet training AND plant specific training.
And nope, we're gonna keep the rest I hope.
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Do they look like the stuff in the DOE handbooks? Is it plant specific tests or theory type stuff? Have enough of your people failed out that they need a new class yet? ;)
(I am not cheering against anyone to fail for the record, I'm sure they all have mortgages and kids and failing was probably a sad day for them)
If you're curious, for licensing, this is an example of a generic fundamentals exam;
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/generic-fundamentals-examinations/bwr/bwr-files/past-exams/december2010bwr.pdf
For the final NRC exam, this is an example;
http://adamswebsearch2.nrc.gov/IDMWS/ViewDocByAccession.asp?AccessionNumber=ML102510217
Needless to say, hardly "multiple guess" as a previous person called these types of test and several orders of magnitude more difficult than anything in the Navy.
Justin
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If you're curious, for licensing, this is an example of a generic fundamentals exam;
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/generic-fundamentals-examinations/bwr/bwr-files/past-exams/december2010bwr.pdf
For the final NRC exam, this is an example;
http://adamswebsearch2.nrc.gov/IDMWS/ViewDocByAccession.asp?AccessionNumber=ML102510217
Needless to say, hardly "multiple guess" as a previous person called these types of test and several orders of magnitude more difficult than anything in the Navy.
Justin
I just glanced at those and plan to look them over further later on. Good stuff. I am on the verge of jumping in and have been looking at this stuff. I am doing college courses that teach the DOE handbooks and feel like I am going through Power School all over again. A good refresher I guess. Just to make sure I am on the same page, you mean for an SRO license right?
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Drayer, sro and ro go through the same class. Its the standards and nrc exam that really make the difference. Justins going through his second class, so he can elaborate of course. At my plant sro ugrades simply skip fundamentals because its the same.
Nlo and license are two completely different animals
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Drayer, sro and ro go through the same class. Its the standards and nrc exam that really make the difference. Justins going through his second class, so he can elaborate of course. At my plant sro ugrades simply skip fundamentals because its the same.
Nlo and license are two completely different animals
I figured this much. Let me know if you find anything as a guide for the NLO level, I'm curious to check it out. I'm writting a paper on BWR's now and learning some on the other side of the house that I had never seen before. Do they have any other good published resources about BWR's that is web accessible?
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I just glanced at those and plan to look them over further later on. Good stuff. I am on the verge of jumping in and have been looking at this stuff. I am doing college courses that teach the DOE handbooks and feel like I am going through Power School all over again. A good refresher I guess. Just to make sure I am on the same page, you mean for an SRO license right?
Yeah same class for RO/SRO, just that one the final written exam, the SRO has the 75 question "RO portion" and an additional 25 question "SRO portion." Along with the, the job performance modules "JPMs" are also slightly different for the RO/SRO. In the simulator portion, the SRO has to do a min. of 2 scenarios, one as SRO and one as RO (at the controls). The RO has to do 2, one as RO at the controls, and another as "BOP" (balance of plant) or secondary operator. Those positions have different names at different plants, but basically, one RO is in change of the primary and reactor, one is in charge of the secondary. Altogether, they make a 3 man crew.
Hope that helps, although off topic. :)
Justin
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I figured this much. Let me know if you find anything as a guide for the NLO level, I'm curious to check it out. I'm writting a paper on BWR's now and learning some on the other side of the house that I had never seen before. Do they have any other good published resources about BWR's that is web accessible?
Here is a basic overview of BRW systems.
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
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holy cow the GFES exam isnt any where near the level of the NRC one lmao. I can barely read the NRC much less answer the questions haha.
that gfes exam has some good questions, Imma use that too.
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holy cow the GFES exam isnt any where near the level of the NRC one lmao. I can barely read the NRC much less answer the questions haha.
that gfes exam has some good questions, Imma use that too.
I have serious issues with the NRC GFES program, but that is another topic for another day. It is what it is.
Good luck to you and your class.
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If you are taking a multiple choice test, there is an art to them.
1) If you have two answers that are opposites, usually one of those in the answer.
2) The longest answer is mostly likely the correct one, especially if it is exceeding longer than the other ones. Remember, people have to make up wrong answers, so they tend to keep them short.
3) When in total doubt, "C."
4) If two answers are correct and you have "all of the above" that is the one you choose.
5) If it is NRRPT and "Compton's Scattering is a choice, that is most likely the answer (they love CS).
6) Responses that use absolute words, such as "always" or "never" are less likely to be correct than ones that use conditional words like "usually" or "probably."
7)"Funny" responses are usually wrong.
8) Look for grammatical clues. If the stem ends with the indefinite article "an," for example, then the correct response probably begins with a vowel.
9) Look for verbal associations. A response that repeats key words that are in the stem is likely to be correct.
i.e Who is responsible for the electrical maintenance?
a) electrician b) mechanic c. rad con, d) QA
As a (former) Instructional Technologist I can unequivocally state that some of those recommendations are (or were) dead-on correct... and some are not.
1.) It depends on how the opposites are worded. For instance if the first says "x = y" and the other says "x<>y" then one of them has to be correct, so if one is not the correct answer, there are likely two correct answers which should invalidate the question. However, even in this case if x and y are not relevant to the question asked, then all bets are off.
2.) This would likely be true if test developers were really lazy or stupid. Some are, but in the nuclear world, most are not. On top of that, the tests are reviewed question by question by at least two others before approval, so you would need several lazy idiots for this to hold. I am not saying this situation does not exist in Nuclear Training Programs, just that it is rare. Outside of SAT programs, this technique holds true.
3.) This will work about 20% to 25% of the time, depending on whether there are four or five choices.
4.) This is among the most reliable, but not 100% guaranteed. It depends on what the definition of 'right' is (thank you Mr. Clinton.) If you are absolutely sure that two answers are correct to an equal degree you can be sure you won't get this one wrong if you answer 'All of the above' because if there are two equally correct answers, the question is invalid. Remember, though that the instructions will usually have a statement like 'Choose the most correct answer' or 'the choice that best answers the question' which gives wiggle room. Good arguments can invalidate questions that have two answers that can be shown to be equally correct, but in most cases the distractors have already been tested for this.
5.) I don't remember that being the case in my version of the test, but I can't argue this point.
6.) Spot on. But remember the 'less likely' part of this recommendation-- it is not guaranteed. If you have no clue, this can actually help. Also remember that good test writers know this, too.
7.) Also true. Most test writers can't resist a good play on words... however, there is little room for humor in most accredited programs, so you probably won't see this much anymore.
8.) This works in most sloppily written tests. I doubt you will find this in a test in an accredited program, either.
9.) This falls into the same category as #8.
I have actually taught classes to instructors that covered all of these subjects, to improve test development skills. As a matter of fact, it was part of the Initial Instructor Training, and then used again in Continuing Training when testing skills sagged a bit. Outside of the SAT based training world, these have all been valid recommendations, at least in the past, and some are still valid today. If an instructor handed me a test with any of this on it for my review (and I reviewed a lot of tests) I would hand it back for correction... because training professionals look for them.
Believe it or not these 'rules' used to be quite accurate until better development skills were taught. I used many of them to cruise through High School -- which may account for namlive's 150 IQ rating. I am sure mine was raised a bit by the same knowledge. I even found out it works in Spanish. I took the Spanish Achievement Test for placement in college and scored 750 out of 800, so they placed me in a third year level class -- they could have been speaking Greek, Italian or Swahili for all I knew. I could understand about 10% of what they were saying if they spoke slowly enough. Big time backfire on me.
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None hold true for an Operator exam.
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None hold true for an Operator exam.
[BS]
I reviewed them, too. I taught Operations Instructors. As I pointed out (if you actually took the time to read the post) most of the points carry little or no weight in a SAT world with well trained instructors. But there is a little validity to several, no matter how good the instructors get.
I am sure that perfection is the goal, but saying any program has achieved that is just another example of undeserved arrogance.
Not that I am surprised.
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Oh I saw it :) No matter what when I see this posted in its entirety I will say it does not apply to a licensed operator exam! I don't want some fool applying rules that won't work!
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Prior to our NRC Audit exam we had a lecture about exam-taking/exam anxiety. A couple of takeaways from a guy who works industry-wide:
1. When you have no clue, choose B.
2. When in doubt, pick the longest answer. (if you're clueless and B is the longest answer, sounds like a shoo-in).
3. Somebody will fail that will surprise everyone (this turned out to be true).
4. Skip questions that you are struggling with and come back to them later. Anxiety from them can cloud your judgment on subsequent questions.
Some of our classes' observations:
1. The more you know, the more you know.
2. When studying concepts, ride lazy to the bank (i.e. studying old exams can you give you ideas on what kinds of things to study; however memorizing the exam bank can lead to missing otherwise easy questions).
3. Group study can be helpful so long as you refer to source documents, not the guy with the 96 average (using 2 above, a 24 hour surveillance at one plant may be a 12 hour surveillance at our plant).
4. Speaking of teamwork, there is no "I" in team, but there is one in LICENSE. ;)
Now back to the books.
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murray, I cant wait for the day when I have to actually study :p
I looked over that NRC, holy crap... lol.
I expect lots of help from you gents when Im heading through license class in a couple years...