NukeWorker Forum
News and Discussions => Nuke News => Topic started by: matthew.b on Mar 11, 2008, 01:35
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Philly.com: A jobs boom is shaking nuclear industry (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20080309_A_jobs_boom_is_shaking_nuclear_industry.html)
I find the quote of 90,000 more jobs rather interesting. Sounds like good times to come if true.
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I think they already are true. Just look at who is hiring, everybody. ;D
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Hey, I'm in this picture. Groovy.
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Hey, I'm in this picture. Groovy.
Are you the guy with the white hat on? You're famous now!
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WWWWOOOOOOOOOEEEEE!!! Hold on there fellas, that sexy nuclear powered beast is none other than me of course 8). Now if you want to pretend to be my wife standing next to me that is fine, but please ??? dont try to compare your self to the great one. I will be signing autographs later in the back allie for anyone who wants one 8).
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"Whooosh"
(the sound Rennhack's joke makes going right over B.Presgrove's head...)
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LOL. uuuhhhh........i dont get it ???.
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The big guy kneeling down holding the white paper is your's truly. We are training on racking out breakers.
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LOL. uuuhhhh........i dont get it ???.
Try looking at the picture WE are talking about, which is ON TOPIC, linked to IN the FIRST message.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20080309_A_jobs_boom_is_shaking_nuclear_industry.html
Jason-YP is in the picture in the article.
B.PRESGROVE , we love you, but no one was talking about you. Sorry.
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oooohhhhhhhhhh, now I get it. (clearing my throat from the utter embarasment). Anywhooo,.....nnnnooooowwww I see what you are talking about....white hats.......not white beach hats..... :-X. my bad.
Thanks for the love though.
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Karma to you. And Karma to Jason for being Famous.
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Elect Pro Nuclear Candidates and see the good times roll!!!! Elect the unknowledgeable no nukes, But believe in Global warming Kooks( who are clueless that Nuke is the best for Global warming if it exists) and see it decline. Your choice!!!
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Elect Pro Nuclear Candidates and see the good times roll!!!! Elect the unknowledgeable no nukes, But believe in Global warming Kooks( who are clueless that Nuke is the best for Global warming if it exists) and see it decline. Your choice!!!
You are VERY off topic. Keep your political rantings in the PolySci area. You have been warned many times.
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But a lot of utilities still refuse to hire experienced people (25yrs) that want to work because of their age or lack of a degree. If they really are so short of people because they are losing so many to retirement, why do they refuse to hire experienced people that can/will still work 10-15 years so they can get the younger people trained. I have even been passed by for a helper's position when I have experience to be journeyman mechanic or RP. And seen a woman 8 years older than me offered the helpers position. Just fail to understand that.....
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But a lot of utilities still refuse to hire . . . because of their age or lack of a degree.
41 yrs old...no experience...no degree. I just started at Farley. Keep looking.
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Last I heard, 49 is the statistical average age of the industies resources, or as they say "Human Capitol'!
41 makes you a puppy!
Good Luck.....RG!
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41 yrs old...no experience...no degree. I just started at Farley. Keep looking.
And I stand by the statement. You even verified it. Southern Co. passed on 54 yr old white male, HPSS/NRRPT, Navy Nuke Machinist Mate. for helper, mechanic, operator, and HP. But hired you. And offered to a 60+ female a chance to test for helper. I am sure there always will be cases that are the exception, but if corperate is the only ones making decision...
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I think McBride probably understated his resume since he went straight to OPS class but there is sometimes more to getting job than resume. A good resume can get you into the process but you still have to interview well. And technical excellence is only one part of that. Part is how well the committee thinks you will fit in. I recently interviewed for a job. Most of the committees questions involved not only what I knew but more on how I used that in interacting with others in my group and in other groups. Sure, corporate has final say in hiring but interview process is (at least here) conducted by local people from several different departments. They want to get the most qualified people that they can get but also someone that they can work with.
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There may be a job boom shaking the industry. What we need are kids willing to put the work in the plant rather than at a desk. I think engineers in training should go through the EO ranks and learn the plant. When they get qualified they can either go for a license or move to engineering. I see too many kids my age trying to avoid the less desirable areas of the nuke industry.
I don't know about other plants, but the place I work at is not hiring for a long time. They are starting to clamp down and get the existing NLO trainees to get fully qualified. I see this as short sighted because there are many NLOs with years of experience that may want to retire soon. Who is going to replace them? Once they are gone, so too will be their knowledge. The whole tribal knowledge thing is not going away anytime soon.
There are many ROs with years of experience where I work. I know many of them will be able to retire very soon. The pay difference between RO and a fully qualified NLO is only a few bucks now. This will be a huge problem soon. The next license class at my plant tried to get 6 people to go RO. There is only 1 NLO going to that class.
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...But hired you...
Somebody sounds bitter.
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I honestly think that there is about to be a huge "AAAHHH CRAP!!!" :o moment here when all these baby booms are sitting at home on thier rumps soken up the goodness and these industries are left with little work force. Im not just talkin the nuke world either. This inbetween job ive been workin now for a little while is starting to get worried because there is not enough guys comin in to work.
I worked in the chemical industry for a while in ops, and all the friends I keep in touch with are saying the exact same thing the nuke industry is saying. From my almost middle aged seat it is not lookin good, and im trying to tell my son now who is in the tenth grade to look for a job that is high on the technical side and short on the people side.
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Somebody sounds bitter.
To some degree, yes. Just not really about you in paticular. Just baffles me sometimes the twisted logic they use. Work as a contract tech & I am qualified, but no degree so no house job. Look for a chance to start as a helper and work into a position with them based on my experiences, and they go to a woman, older, less experienced and offer her to come in & test knowing she is <5yrs from SSI? I fail to understand that. Especially when I was asked to apply for the position. Then it gets shot down from a corporate level. I could get a house job at a couple of plants, just not where you can afford to live with the wages. But the 'hiring boom' in general is after younger, experienced ops, or minorities.
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A personal take on the jobs boon;
As stated the companies are turning a blind eye on those without full degrees for any postitions be they maintenance or operations. At Ameren and Excelon they are putting their own trainees through College for associate degrees in maintenance and RP categories, they are looking to aid the development of an operator sub category there as well.
I do not see the need of a degree to bend wrenches or run a mill if you have 5-10-15 or even twenty years experience and along with that I see a great number of very qualified individuals left outside the fence as the 1-2 year grads come out of trade schools with a piece of paper and little to no capability are hired. The qual standards need to become industry standardized, there is too wide a variation from company to company and plant to plant. Used to be Navy time got one in regardless, now it is a requirement at some plants yet the ex-Navy personnel numbers decline each year. The boon of new plants may change this as the workforce quantity tightens and the available numbers drop rapidly. There is already consternation on the part of existing plant management as to loss of qualified individuals to new plants and they are fast building 'lists' to attempt to slow or stop the jumps. Sidebar inter-company no-hire agreements already unadmittedly exist, these will grow as these new plants do come up.
A major concern for our industry is retirement, most if not all the plants have a genre' of employees at the same age span: 48-55 and they will come to their retire age long before there is sufficient replacements trained and hired, what will the companies do? Some are moving to raise or even drop early out retirement packages, some are eliminating pensions and cash balance plans altogether to force retirables to stay as their 401K plans are just insufficient. At 52+ I may be one of the unlucky ones and be forced into staying.
Another point to make is controlling INPO, there needs to be some pressure for industry wide continuity/standardization for training and qualification as well as penalties for INPO management being too easy on their parent plant systems and too harsh on those these companies wish to buy up. Partisan politics have entered where it has no place and this needs to be corrected before it gets much further or as the media catches on the industry will get another black eye.
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There may be a job boom shaking the industry. What we need are kids willing to put the work in the plant rather than at a desk. I think engineers in training should go through the EO ranks and learn the plant. When they get qualified they can either go for a license or move to engineering. I see too many kids my age trying to avoid the less desirable areas of the nuke industry.
I don't know about other plants, but the place I work at is not hiring for a long time. They are starting to clamp down and get the existing NLO trainees to get fully qualified. I see this as short sighted because there are many NLOs with years of experience that may want to retire soon. Who is going to replace them? Once they are gone, so too will be their knowledge. The whole tribal knowledge thing is not going away anytime soon.
There are many ROs with years of experience where I work. I know many of them will be able to retire very soon. The pay difference between RO and a fully qualified NLO is only a few bucks now. This will be a huge problem soon. The next license class at my plant tried to get 6 people to go RO. There is only 1 NLO going to that class.
I'm just a measly little college kid here, but are there actually engineering jobs at plants were there is hands on along with the engineering. As you were saying, there are people that go straight to a desk job sans hand on. Already in college I have found people who know theory but have no idea of how it works. But in the end, my question is how valuable is it to know both the engineering topics, and still be able to turn a wrench?
Brian
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I'm just a measly little college kid here, but are there actually engineering jobs at plants were there is hands on along with the engineering. As you were saying, there are people that go straight to a desk job sans hand on. Already in college I have found people who know theory but have no idea of how it works. But in the end, my question is how valuable is it to know both the engineering topics, and still be able to turn a wrench?
Brian
I will give you two examples of project engineers I have seen in the shipyard.
Engineer 1: started as a pipe fitter apprentice many years ago utilized the shipyard to help put him though college. Because he was a prior wrench turner and got his knowledge from experience he understood what needed to be done rather than just what the books said needed to be done
Engineer 2: straight out of college started as a lower level planning engineer and then became lead project engineer after a few years. Due to his lack of personal expericance he and those like him worked more like a lawyer than an engineer. For these guys if it’s not in the book it can’t be done.
There are pros and cons to both methods. With many nuclear applications you cannot substitute personal experience knowledge with approved written specs and standards. However many of the college engineers will over think simple projects.
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I'm just a measly little college kid here, but are there actually engineering jobs at plants were there is hands on along with the engineering. As you were saying, there are people that go straight to a desk job sans hand on. Already in college I have found people who know theory but have no idea of how it works. But in the end, my question is how valuable is it to know both the engineering topics, and still be able to turn a wrench?
Brian
It's extremely valuable if you have a hands on knowledge. The best engineers are able to communicate to the craft if they all speak the same language as far as nomenclature and such. However, don't count on actually having much hands on work as that is what the craft is there for. You'll have their respect and cooperation when you're able to demonstrate that you can not only tell them what to do but if necessary how to actually do it. From a craft perspective I'd love to see more with that ability. Cuts down the frustration factor exponentially.
Best of luck,
Tom
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But in the end, my question is how valuable is it to know both the engineering topics, and still be able to turn a wrench?
PRICELESS!
Experience is Knowledge!
Knowledge is not Experience!
Think about it! ;)
Have a Great One, RG!
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But in the end, my question is how valuable is it to know both the engineering topics, and still be able to turn a wrench?
At the risk of over-confirming (I just made that up) I will chime in and agree with all of my predecessors... there is no substitute for hands-on, and it extends to ALL fields. I was a Radiation Protection Instructor who worked my way up through the technician ranks and worked beside another instructor who had just graduated with a Masters Degree in Health Physics. We were both qualified to teach Theory, but he was not allowed to teach anything of a 'practical' nature (job coverage or other task oriented subjects.) He taught the theory part well and was a good instructor, but he never gained the respect of the techs he was teaching because he had not 'been there' to put the theory to work. He decided to get some practical experience and was dismayed to find out he had to do his time as a junior tech before he got to work as a senior.
Education is a great foundation, but it is insufficient by itself.
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I started a new job with a utility last January as a 48 year old with 25 years experience and no degree.
I do believe though, that the industry on the whole is putting too much emphasis on education and not enough on experience. In other words I was lucky to find the right circumstance at the right time.
How staffing issues unfold over the next 10 - 15 years will be interesting. There are plenty here looking to retire in less than 10 years.
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How staffing issues unfold over the next 10 - 15 years will be interesting. There are plenty here looking to retire in less than 10 years.
Right now, that is the wave that I want to ride out of college. The way that I see things is that people are always going to need their energy, so this is by no means a dying industry.
Brian
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I agree whole heartedly with Brian. Everyone needs power and we can only hope that nuke will be there. I can only pray that our local plant starts hiring for ops again soon. I enjoy nuclear pharmacy but I'd rather be in a plant. ::)
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This is the first time in 29 years of not working in a plant and so far I am very happy. No evenings, no OCC, no weekends, no EPlan coverage and not having to cover for some other department's planner who wouldn't/couldn't do his or her job.
LM
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Ok, we all seem to agree that experience is valuable, but on the flipside of that, how important is it to have a degree? I'm getting out of the Navy after 8 years, two of which I was a Staff Pickup at Prototype. I have a BS in HR management, but from the people I've talked to that are out of the Navy, and have been out at least 8 years, it sounds like an enginering degree is necessary. Any thoughts?
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Ok, we all seem to agree that experience is valuable, but on the flipside of that, how important is it to have a degree? I'm getting out of the Navy after 8 years, two of which I was a Staff Pickup at Prototype. I have a BS in HR management, but from the people I've talked to that are out of the Navy, and have been out at least 8 years, it sounds like an enginering degree is necessary. Any thoughts?
Any degree is much better than no degree. If you have a Navy Nuke with a BS in BS, you will receive a little consideration ahead of a nuke that has no degree awarded. Of course for some jobs, the actual degree you hold is important, but I don't think you are planning on sitting for your PE license.
If you plan on moving into commercial ops or maintenance, you will be fine.