NukeWorker Forum

Career Path => Outages => Topic started by: indoprime on Apr 04, 2014, 08:06

Title: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: indoprime on Apr 04, 2014, 08:06
Just been wondering....how many ANSI 3.1 techs are there in the US? 
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: ridgerunner61 on Apr 04, 2014, 09:26
I'll start
1
Next?
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: hamsamich on Apr 04, 2014, 09:38
This would be a good time to ballpark it since all the outages aren't filled ( I am at one that is grossly understaffed), which means take the number of active outages and guess how many techs are there at each one....lots of guessing but still could get some kind of ballpark.  Gotta factor in stuff like Core Techs, house techs at outage plants and non-outage plants, people at DOE sites and other sites like D&D at humbolt and Zion....I would guess about 700 traveling >18.1 commercial techs working outages.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Marlin on Apr 04, 2014, 09:45
Just been wondering....how many ANSI 3.1 techs are there in the US? 

   In the 70's when the Oil Chemical and Atomic workers tried to unionize techs they estimated 750. In 79 when TMI sent out it's request for support I remember a number of 300 techs requested to support the effort, I wonder where they all came from  8) . When the IBEW tried to unionize in the 80s the estimated number was 3000 with an estimate of tripling over the next decade. Today I don't know but I suspect not as high as was projected then. Of course one could skew the numbers with what a 3.1 tech is, the field has expanded into more areas that do not accept experience not related to their facility.

YMMV   [coffee]
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: indoprime on Apr 04, 2014, 09:57
700?  That seems like a really low number to me, given how many NPP's are out there, and the number of outages there are.  :o
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: hamsamich on Apr 04, 2014, 10:22
But how many outages are going on at one time?  I'm talking traveling >18.1s.  14 outages going on at one time max times 50 techs at each outage, but maybe 1000 is a better number. maybe 14x70, but some outages don't fully staff and some don't fully staff at a number as high as 70.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: indoprime on Apr 04, 2014, 10:27
Very true. Ive never even heard of a fully staffed outage.  Unless the recruiters say so, and thats never quite reliable.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Eric_Bartlett on Apr 04, 2014, 02:06
I figured I'd weigh in on this one - knowing what I know a far as how many BNI employs at a single moment in time on outages during peak season along with how many BNI has working D&D's, BSI has at DOE and how many BNI has on operational plant projects coupled with how many I would estimate our competition has working at any given moment I would estimate that there are well over 1,200 commercialy qualified SHP's in the field (give or take a 100 or so).  That estimate does not include non commercial qualified RCT's at DOE sites, shipyards, laboratories and various other facilities throughout the US.  
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: indoprime on Apr 04, 2014, 03:31
So, if BNI has about 1200 Sr's on the books....it doesnt seem like theres a lot of us in the industry.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: chuckdhuff on Apr 04, 2014, 04:26
So, if BNI has about 1200 Sr's on the books....it doesnt seem like theres a lot of us in the industry.

The way I read his post is:

BHI Seniors + his estimate of competition's Seniors = ~1,200
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: indoprime on Apr 04, 2014, 05:00
still doesnt seem like a lot to me....  but im just one cog in the machine.  Anyhow, thank you Eric for that info!
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: RRhoads on Apr 08, 2014, 10:35
and what about House Techs???
The post did ask.....# of ANSI 3.1 Techs
just sayin
 ;)
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: surf50 on Apr 08, 2014, 02:03
Just a guess, maybe 10 techs per operating unit?
Plus the cubicle techs (ALARA, instruments, etc)?
At my usta plant we had a high of 55 house techs in the 80's, down to around 20 now.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: MrHazmat on Apr 08, 2014, 02:30
Back in the mid 90's there were over 700 in the RADCON Dept here at SRS!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Marlin on Apr 08, 2014, 02:52
Back in the mid 90's there were over 700 in the RADCON Dept here at SRS!!!!!!!!!

   Here is were YMMV comes into play, ANSI is a Power Plant standard and I suspect many or most of these were ANSI 3.1 but it may be difficult to measure. The home grown techs probably were not ANSI 3.1 and the standard to hire probably was not ANSI 3.1 as is the case with a number of DOE sites.

   Agree with your point on techs not in the commercial pool as many transition from one to the other. Add in Army corp and others who have several disciplines in the contract work force.

 [coffee]
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: SCMasterchef on Apr 08, 2014, 02:55
Being a well traveled RP instructor I would be willing to guess that most plants have between 20 and 30 ANSI 3.1s.  The DOE sites can range from 50 and up depending on the site.  I would guess that with all the cutbacks that number still could be significant but nothing like it was 3-4 years ago.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: scotoma on Apr 10, 2014, 12:43
A single unit power plant has 20-25 technicians. Add another 8 or so for management types that meet the ANSI standard and then a few more that went to OPS. That would be 30 - 35 per power plant. There are 100+ power plants. Then there are a few laboratories, burial grounds, superfund sites, etc. No matter how you do the math, it appears that there are 4000 fool time + the rent-a-techs.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Old HP on Apr 10, 2014, 08:35
After all the fuzzy math it seems that each of us 3.1 Senior Techs are all just only 1 in @ 5000. Therefore if we use the normal management assessment of HPs being a dime a dozen our collective net worth is just under $42.00. I know the figures might be off a little, but does anyone else feel like they have been treated as if they really were just a dime a dozen commodity ?
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: OldHP on Apr 11, 2014, 12:03
Many consider ANSI 3.1 (or 18.1) to deal just with the number of months (or hours ) on the job.  As Marlin said the ANSI standard applies to commercial power plants and the ability to perform the necessary functions.  20+ years of preforming job 'A' does not necessarily qualify an individual to perform jobs 'B through Z'!  As I've said in similar topics, the RPM/RSO has to make the decision based (hopefully on personal observation or the watchful eye of a fully qualified and trusted subordinate) on the qualifications of the individual.  36 months as 'hatch watch' does not qualify a person to cover steam generator maintenance.

Over a lot of years I've seen individuals that made the cut (on resume) because of time in a DOE, Lab, or even NPP role, but didn't make the cut in the plant.  On the other hand, I've seen folks just out of the medical and/or DOD world (time not accepted by most) that matched the performance of trusted Sr. Techs.

Back to the OP,  I think the question was how many am I competing against.  The 'house' and 'other long term facilities' really don't count if that was the question.  'Available' at any given time, MOO, I'd go with Eric
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Chimera on Apr 11, 2014, 10:16
I had to laugh, OldHP.  Like any other standard, ANSI 3.1 doesn't say you have to be good at what you do - only that you've done it for the prerequisite period of time.  I've worked with NRRPT-qualified techs that I wouldn't trust to turn a meter on let alone cover work in the field.  Testing?  They only show one might be good at taking the test - not working in the field.  Again, I've worked with Techs that had all kinds of problems with tests but were outstanding working in the field.

The standards and testing should only serve as a starting point when evaluating a Tech's competency.  There is no substitute for observation on the job to determine who is and who isn't a "good" Tech.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: indoprime on Apr 11, 2014, 10:41
I probably should have revised the question more.... but I think that Eric has answered my question.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: GLW on Apr 11, 2014, 10:41
I had to laugh, OldHP.  Like any other standard, ANSI 3.1 doesn't say you have to be good at what you do - only that you've done it for the prerequisite period of time.  I've worked with NRRPT-qualified techs that I wouldn't trust to turn a meter on let alone cover work in the field.  Testing?  They only show one might be good at taking the test - not working in the field.  Again, I've worked with Techs that had all kinds of problems with tests but were outstanding working in the field.

The standards and testing should only serve as a starting point when evaluating a Tech's competency.  There is no substitute for observation on the job to determine who is and who isn't a "good" Tech.

All true enough but that's a different thread,...

This thread has maintained topic better than many others though, nearly 3X better,... [coffee]

BZ's general observation on Internet forums/threads etal, By the 5th post in any thread it starts drifting off topic. By 12 to 15 it has nothing to do with the original topic and if it surives to 30 or so it magically gets back on topic. This applies almost everywhere.

Mike
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: GLW on Apr 11, 2014, 10:42
I probably should have revised the question more.... but I think that Eric has answered my question.

and that should probably close this thread,... :P ;) :) 8)
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Marlin on Apr 11, 2014, 11:23
and that should probably close this thread,... :P ;) :) 8)

Probably  ;)
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Ed on Apr 11, 2014, 11:39
.... but I think that Eric has answered my question.

Eric might have some bias in his answer:  " see how big a guy  I am?, and see how many ANSI 3.1 Techs I control? .... ".  :-)
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Marlin on Apr 11, 2014, 11:44
Eric might have some bias in his answer:  " see how big a guy  I am?, and see how many ANSI 3.1 Techs I control? .... ".  :-)

 -K
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Eric_Bartlett on Apr 11, 2014, 03:38
Eric might have some bias in his answer:  " see how big a guy  I am?, and see how many ANSI 3.1 Techs I control? .... ".  :-)

WOW - try to help out and give y'all the info as I see it from this side o fthe coin and thats the response I get - so much for trying to help and add to the conversation.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Ed on Apr 11, 2014, 04:14
WOW - try to help out and give y'all the info as I see it from this side o fthe coin and thats the response I get  

Eric and Marlin: my post was  just supposed to a bit of humor. Did You see that smiley at the end? Thanks for your response and the info Eric. 
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Eric_Bartlett on Apr 11, 2014, 04:17
Eric and Marlin: my post was  just supposed to a bit of humor. Did You see that smiley at the end? Thanks for your response and the info Eric. 

Ed, I apologioze for my "ignorance" remarks, which in turn were ignorant on my part (which I have removed) - been a long day, maybe took it more personal than I should have - anyways, y'all have a great weekend.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Marlin on Apr 11, 2014, 04:52
Eric and Marlin: my post was  just supposed to a bit of humor. Did You see that smiley at the end? Thanks for your response and the info Eric. 

   OK I will take your word for it but the emoticon did not seem to carry the intended humor. Emoticons help transmit intent not having body language and context of a single conversation but may still fall short.

 [GH]
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: RDTroja on Apr 13, 2014, 04:44
   OK I will take your word for it but the emoticon did not seem to carry the intended humor. Emoticons help transmit intent not having body language and context of a single conversation but may still fall short.

 [GH]

Given his history I think your first impression was a good one.
Title: Re: # of ANSI 3.1 Techs?
Post by: Chimera on Apr 14, 2014, 01:50
All true enough but that's a different thread,...

This thread has maintained topic better than many others though, nearly 3X better,... [coffee]


(laughing at myself)  Well, at least I made it past Broadzilla's "fifth post" thumb rule.