A retired Air Force Officer told me they will give lie detector tests in nuke A school. Is this true? I don't think it is, but I want it straight from the guys that KNOW.
Never heard of such...1997 class here. The new guys coming to the ship never mentioned it, and frankly, it makes me chuckle.
NPS Class 9701. No Lie Detector.
MM Class 9631-B No Lie Detector
Maybe he meant ELT School! :)
Quote from: Broadzilla on Jan 23, 2008, 03:39
Maybe he meant ELT School! :)
Hey Hey Hey.... our chemistry was just naturally self regulating. :)
Quote from: Marlin on Jan 23, 2008, 04:05
Hey Hey Hey.... our chemistry was just naturally self regulating. :)
Yes, somewhere in the Water Chemistry Manual discussed the negative chemistry coefficient.
I think it was spoken: Reactor Plant Chemistry Non-Logging Probability or the chance that out of spec or out of trend chemistry was logged. It was inveresely proportional to the number of nub ELTs => the higher the number of new guys, the higher probability that your chemistry data actually reflected plant conditions.
It doesn't matter, us ELT types were trained to beat a Polygraph anyway :)
Quote from: Broadzilla on Jan 23, 2008, 04:30
It doesn't matter, us ELT types were trained to beat a Polygraph anyway :)
:) I like to think of it as precognitive ability or as they say on Mythbusters "I reject your reality and subsistute my own". :)
HERE'S YOUR PROBLEM!
Quote from: 81038205 on Jan 23, 2008, 02:26
Air Force Officer. . .
I always ask retired Air Force officer my Navy questions :P
Okay,,,I'll shut up now... LOL!
Most ELT's I know could just taste the water and tell you the results...
As for the chAir Force guy, he was likely delerious from playing 36 rounds of golf.
(and my father-in-law is retired AF, so I can say that!)
No poly in the nuclear navy
He may have thought that it had similar requirments the Air Force would have required for nuclear missle silo duty but as for that I'm guessing
Didn't have a polygraph for class of 7602 but then again we were also using slide rules!
Quote from: 81038205 on Jan 23, 2008, 02:26
A retired Air Force Officer told me they will give lie detector tests in nuke A school. Is this true? I don't think it is, but I want it straight from the guys that KNOW.
lol thats funny. An "AIR FORCE" officer (thats my first point of contingency) told you they polygraph? Well they dont, thats a simple answer :)
lol @ lagrange!
No, what they need to do is polygraph you on your way OUT of the Navy, and put it on youtube...
Now THAT would be fun to watch!
Have you ever been so drunk, you urinated into your locker?
Have you ever used chill water piping to cool your head during an extreme hangover?
Have you ever stolen the ensign from a British fast boat tied outboard of you in Holy Loch Scotland, in the nude thereby leaving their topside watch with nothing but "'e wuz naked!" as a description?
What? I mean . . . uh...
Look the Navy may be dumb at times but it's rarely stupid. They know better than to Polygraph Nukes.
Mike
Quote from: Broadzilla on Jan 24, 2008, 09:23
They know better than to Polygraph Nukes.
Mike
This is so true that it is almost self evident.
I wasn't anywhere near that valve, honest!!
Someone mentioned that there is no Polygraph in the Nuclear Navy, I was told by the recruiter that "He believes" that to qualify for sub duty you have to pass a polygraph. Is there any truth to this? I know a lot of you guys are or were submariners.
If they are using polygraphs on nukes it can only be because they need to test them to make sure they work properly and to adjust for sensitivity. ELTS would be used to make sure that it would pick up a lie even if the person really really believed that it was true. Side Note: You think ELTS would make it through that new show on the Fox Network, "Moment of ...."
I just got out and to the best of my knowledge, they do not use polygraphs on nukes, sub or surface.
ELTs are trained to beat a polygraph :)
Quote from: zpyderman on Apr 14, 2008, 08:14
Someone mentioned that there is no Polygraph in the Nuclear Navy, I was told by the recruiter that "He believes" that to qualify for sub duty you have to pass a polygraph. Is there any truth to this? I know a lot of you guys are or were submariners.
False. (For enlisted nukes, Except the Jimmy Carter )
Justin
Quote from: Broadzilla on Apr 14, 2008, 09:04
ELTs are trained to beat a polygraph :)
That is the best ELT line I have read in a while Mike! Good stuff. Your roots are showing. LMAO.
JB
The recruiter was confused it is a psychological eval that you need to take. What does it entail???
I always thought that if you weren't at least a little nutsy that they didn't let you in the program. Honestly I have never heard of the pyschological eval either. Then again they may have done it at boot camp for me and I didn't even realize it. On a side note though, as most of you will agree, every single nuke has at least one perculiar geeky quirk to them. Some have more than one, but all have at least one. Think about it. Whether it be WoW, comic books, StarWars/StarTrek, etc, etc, we all had at least one thing that we geeked out on.
Quote from: LDO4CNO on Apr 14, 2008, 09:01
That is the best ELT line I have read in a while Mike! Good stuff. Your roots are showing. LMAO.
JB
LOL That they are my friend :)
Mike
I haven't had one here, nor has anyone I've talked to mentioned anything of that nature.
To be honest, a lot of people probably wouldn't be here if they did, depending on the nature of the questions.
He could have been confused because I seem to remember hearing, when I was in the DOE world, that when you go for a Q clearance interview you get a polygraph. Then again, those guys could have been jerking my chain. ;D
Quote from: jowlman on Apr 20, 2008, 10:41
He could have been confused because I seem to remember hearing, when I was in the DOE world, that when you go for a Q clearance interview you get a polygraph. Then again, those guys could have been jerking my chain. ;D
You will not necessarily get a polygraph for a "Q" clearence unless you are in the Human Reliabilty Program (HRP) which does require a polygraph.
Quote from: HoneyComb on Apr 15, 2008, 11:59
And, for the 'Eval'(s). You will get tested daily, weekly, monthly and throughout your entire Nuke Schooling to determine your fitness for duty as a Nuke. They will push your buttons to evaluate you during your stay. You will be evaluated regularly.
I think you guys are talking about the old program.
In 2005 in Charleston we had a student come to NPTU with a 2.48 GPA out of Power School (strange, the training pipeline standard is "two-five stay alive" and the fleet standard is 2.8). Either standard you hold him to, this kid failed out of power school and there he was in prototype. I feel bad for him because, even though I realize the Navy nuke community isn't the exclusive community it claims to be, he had no place in the pipeline. He was one of those people with the muddy, glazed over look in the eyes that made you wonder if he was actually self-aware. He didn't know how to put gas in his car, didn't know THAT he had to pay bills, let alone how to do it. Slept on the floor in his closet with no furniture but 500 DVD's. I believe he was a good person, though (RHRB - Right Horse Wrong Barn - I should add that to the nuke glossary thread). He didn't get kicked out until about week 20 (Prototype is 24 weeks nowadays -- for you old timers).
Strange thing is, he wasn't actually going to get kicked out. They sent him to the Corrective Custody Unit in Jacksonville for being a dirt bag (which I don't actually believe he was), and when he got back they put him on a paint team while awaiting a class-up. While on paint team he crossed one of the Rad Area lines under the turtleback over the RC with no TLD. That actually got him sent away. It's kind of a shame, though. Once accepted into the program you can't be dumb, just CAN'T be. That means that if you fail out of power school and can't get the grasp on a single concept in prototype or if it is just in question wether or not you are a sentient being, you just aren't trying hard enough.
Fortunately, though, the boats are still a true test of character and resolve ;) You've always got some lean, mean, nub-hatin' machine to act as the ship's Quality Control Petty Officer. I just don't know that it's the boats' responsibility to determine who is cut out to be on them. From what I understand when you old fellers went through, the pipeline was designed to filter out those that couldn't have been nukes. I'd bet that while the schools had a higher attrition rate, the fleet had a lower attrition rate. Seems like a decent way to save money on training. You probably had a lot fewer dirt bags actually make it to ships as well.
Ah, such is life.
Withroaj: You are right that the fleet will eventually weed out the REALLY REALLY dumb ones in some form or fashion(usually send them TAD to another department like MAA or laundry(surface stuff) for the entire time they are there). Unfortunately that person still counts as a body on the manning list so you can't get a replacement for them. That in turn puts a strain on the rest of the nukes to take up the slack. Not to mention these days, very seldom is it just one nuke who doesn't have a clue per division.
I would be interested to see the retention rates of nukes when the program was more of a filter than a pump. Anyone have hard evidence on those numbers?
Quote from: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 24, 2008, 01:07
I would be interested to see the retention rates of nukes when the program was more of a filter than a pump. Anyone have hard evidence on those numbers?
No hard evidence, but our E-Div Chief (who's talking seriously about getting out at 18 years instead of retiring) said he spent a loooong time as a second class because, as he put it, "in the early 90's, motherf______'s just didn't get out." (I think that was during a story about a 22-year first class standing AEA). And this guy is awesome. I can't imagine he was too much different back in the day, either. Knows everything about everything and has a great, effective leadership style.
Not trying to toot my own horn here, but I KNOW the fleet weeds out the turds. I just don't think that's the fleet's job. Maybe I have the wrong perspective on the training pipeline, but I think that since we are sending people out to operate reactors on warships, the training pipeline should not just be another vocational school. Especially since the average age of a Navy nuke is 21 years old and the average level of operational experience is two years. With the horrible retention rates I can see why the program is a pump and not a filter, but I also think that the rapid crew turnover rate should also contribute to the desired quality of people to send out and relieve the watch. It's scary enough to consider the nuke talent pool getting watered down year after year. Then you consider that many people stop paying attention to "nubs" once they get to about 9 months from EAOS (give or take), meaning you get new kids training (dumber) new kids, and the concept is down right frightening.
I can't say enough that I try to love this program. I have done and seen some very cool things here, and I consider it a true privelege to operate a plant, but damn. Is this really the direction I want to keep going?
I can tell you that it was one of the many reasons I got out. I didn't want to have to go back to fleet and stand watch with some of "qualified" nukes we were forced to send out. We had several nukes get told that the highest watch they would ever qualify was LRPT or Shaft Alley Patrol. We even had an EM nuke get a SAP card(lowest Mechanic qual, usually non nuke undesignated FNs stand that watch) and told that he would never stand watch on anything electrical. Had an RM mechanic almost take down the whole freaking 1 plant with a sponge when she tripped off a pump to a TG.
I do remember hearing somewhere when I was at Proto that it was decreed that the recruiters are good enough to filter out who shouldn't be a nuke, and if they got into the program then they would good enough to pass the program. IF they didn't it was the staff's fault for not teaching them correctly. It was at this point that I decided once and for all I was done with NNPP and any training thereafter.
On a side note, I will say that in 3 years I had ONE(1) student who failed NPS, did horrible on all his tests in Proto, but by golly he was one helluva watchstander and a dang fine Mechanic to boot. Out of all the sub-par student we got at Proto, he was the only one I felt derserved to make it.
You won't get a polygraph.
Closest to that you might get is an interview with Special Agent so-and-so from the FBI. That's only if there are questions regarding your clearance.
For the Carter or NR-1 they might make you do a polygraph but other than that, no.
"I didn't want to have to go back to fleet and stand watch with some of "qualified" nukes we were forced to send out."
Yeah, I'm not looking forward to going to the fleet for just this reason. Luckily I'll be able to avoid the boats I know we've sent the worst ones to. On one hand you think "There's no way we can send this guy out to operate a nuclear reactor." On the other, you look at how bad manning is already and end up passing him on his watch. At prototype, unless we can make them go sad, it's damn near impossible to get them out of the program.