NukeWorker Forum
Career Path => Navy Nuke => Topic started by: Brian on Apr 29, 2008, 08:33
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Last night I watched a show on WSKG about a documentary on board the USS Nimitz. They didn't talk much about the reactor but the one thing that I did notice was the officer in charge of the plant. He said that he had a degree in political science and history. I don't know if it is just me or if that position would be better left to someone with an engineering degree.
Any comments?
Brian
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Naval Reactors screens and personally selects all nuclear officers. They allow both non-technical and technical majors into the program. The common denominator is that all officers receive the same training....nuclear power school which is the theoretical stuff, and then prototype which is the hands on portion.
A good watch officer doesn't need a technical degree. He needs to be smart and needs to be good at multi-tasking.
So, to answer your question....No, the watch officer job doesn't need to be left to those who possess technical degrees only.
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While I have no place to comment here, some of the best watch officers I have seen have had Art and History degrees. I honestly think that the Navy's way of approaching engineering concepts might work better for generally smart guys without too much formal background in engineering.
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Eh it goes both ways, and I am glad they don't limit it to engineers. I had history/art students way out perform engineer students, and vice versa. Even had an LT on the boat with an MIT engineering degree couldn't pass the navy engineering class. So I agree with gamecock, its the person... not the degree.
Justin
PS There will be many more "I knew/saw a guy with *** degree do this stories..." point is, it doesn't really matter.
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Also, on CVN's, E7 and above can qualify Watch Officer.....so, in some cases, no degree at all required to be the Watch Officer.
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I just missed the start of the PBS special "Carrier", but I did see the very limited portion they had about the nukes. I am not surprised that it was very limited, partly because of the security classifications. Also because, unless things have changed drastically since 1997, Reactor Dept. wasn't the most pro-Navy dept. on the ship. Our CLIP (Civilian Life Incentive Program) comes to mind, as does the unofficial "Rough Ride" Reactor Dept. newspaper!
Everyone they interviewed seemed to be a diggit. Sorry, I had to say that being a "6 and outer"!
I remember the Reactor Officer (sub and old-cruiser equivalent of Cheng)they interviewed during the program from my days aboard the TR (CVN-71). I think he was LCDR at the time and served as the REA. The ET's and EM's all seemed to really like him and I never had a problem with him when he was my EOOW. I am glad he finally made it to Reactor Officer, he was one of the better ones. Being an ex-RM guy, too bad I can't say the same thing about the RMA's we had...
The PBS program did remind me of how much free time the Airdales/Chowdales actually had. I remember them being in 6-section duty and then finally being allowed to go to 12-section duty. There was nothing more encouraging than going into Port and Starboard coming out of the yards, while the ship's force airdales were in 12-section duty!
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I remember some E-6's qualifying PPWO when I was in, but they may have been E-7 selects. I think they had to be an officer to sit EOOW though.
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I remember some E-6's qualifying PPWO when I was in, but they may have been E-7 selects. I think they had to be an officer to sit EOOW though.
Every enlisted person qualifying PPWO requires a waiver by NR. The only E6 that I ever heard of qualifying was a guy who was selected for LDO awaiting his commissioning. I served with him after he got commissioned.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pnav/is_200111/ai_1702625292 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pnav/is_200111/ai_1702625292)
For the sub guys.....PPWO on a CVN is analagous to EOOW on a submarine. You have one PPWO per plant.
EOOW on a CVN stands his watch in DC Central. He is the senior nuke, and the PPWOs report to him. The EOOW on a CVN is always an officer.
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Every enlisted person qualifying PPWO requires a waiver by NR. The only E6 that I ever heard of qualifying was a guy who was selected for LDO awaiting his commissioning. I served with him after he got commissioned.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pnav/is_200111/ai_1702625292 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pnav/is_200111/ai_1702625292)
For the sub guys.....PPWO on a CVN is analagous to EOOW on a submarine. You have one PPWO per plant.
EOOW on a CVN stands his watch in DC Central. He is the senior nuke, and the PPWOs report to him. The EOOW on a CVN is always an officer.
I served with him before he was commissioned. Before he was even a chief. He was my LPO and LCPO as well. We did not get along. Then again, I was just a lowly third (I'm a first now). I always thought he was a dick. Still do to a degree, but the years have tempered that opinion. I have met worse people and if he really wanted to screw me over like I thought he did he could have very easily.
Thinking back I learned alot from him, especially his attention to detail and minute. This guy could tell you the number of holes in the colander. I think I still remember the answer to that.
Oddly enough, I also would like to take the same career path he did. I have my work cut out for me though. I got to get back to sea and keep my nose clean and work my butt off.
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Last night I watched a show on WSKG about a documentary on board the USS Nimitz. They didn't talk much about the reactor but the one thing that I did notice was the officer in charge of the plant. He said that he had a degree in political science and history. I don't know if it is just me or if that position would be better left to someone with an engineering degree.
Any comments?
Brian
The best nuclear officer I have ever known was a Rhodes Scholar / Political Science major from the Naval Academy. He was the Plank Owner (Initial Manning) Reactor Officer on USS CARL VINSON (CVN-70). One day this topic came up in conversation - and it was agreed that there is no better initial education for a Reactor Officer than Political Science.
He would ALWAYS listen to the advice of enlisteds. He may not agree, but you never were shot down by your blue shirt.
Think about this for a minute...
"I don't have to know the answer for every question - I have to know who does."
Does this sound useful to you?
Does it sound like the thoughts of an Engineer?
Just my humble opinion.
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I just missed the start of the PBS special "Carrier", but I did see the very limited portion they had about the nukes.
For anyone who missed that show on PBS, like me, it is now on Netflix as a watch instantly title. I watched 8 of the 10 episodes last weekend. It is well edited and produced, and they seemed to focus on a good mixture of different people with different jobs. I really like the CO of the Black Aces Squadron VFA-41, a prior enlisted Marine, CDR Dave Fravor. But for the love of God, why do they focus so much time and attention on the young enlisted sailor who is shocked to find out the girl he has known for only six months, who is carrying his child, has gotten bored back home and started seeing a different man?
It is a great show focusing mainly on the Air Wing and flight operations. As usual, the nukes are mentioned only in passing. I can only assume that the sign-up sheet to be on the show had an asterisk at the bottom with NNNA.
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It is a great show focusing mainly on the Air Wing and flight operations. As usual, the nukes are mentioned only in passing. I can only assume that the sign-up sheet to be on the show had an asterisk at the bottom with NNNA.
Now that's not fair. I doubt the sign up sheet said NNNA. I'd imagine (if a carrier is anything like a sub) the nukes were just a bit too busy working to shine their shoes and go on camera.
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Now that's not fair. I doubt the sign up sheet said NNNA. I'd imagine (if a carrier is anything like a sub) the nukes were just a bit too busy working to shine their shoes and go on camera.
No usually when we have civilians on board for any length of time, they station Ellison Door Watches (Ellison Doors are these special doors on a CVN that are the only ones like it onboard a carrier. The only place you find them is at the access points to the plants). Supposedly they are there to prevent any civilian from wandering down to the plants accidently and getting some uncounted zoomies. It is now my belief that they are actually stationed there to keep the nukes down in the plants to maintain the illusion that everyone in the Navy loves their job and loves the Navy. While I base this theory on no factual evidence and rely purely on heresay, I am not different than those guys that believe in so many conspiracy theories. Plus all the watches were issued bull whips and chairs(joking).
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Makes sense. To be honest, if I ran a ship and had visitors on board, I would go to great lengths to keep them from encountering nukes.
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But for the love of God, why do they focus so much time and attention on the young enlisted sailor who is shocked to find out the girl he has known for only six months, who is carrying his child, has gotten bored back home and started seeing a different man?
They are trying to get ratings up there with The Jerry Springer Show.
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They are trying to get ratings up there with The Jerry Springer Show.
What is next, viewers get to call in to decide what the guy will do.
To get Airman Schmuckatelli to beg and plead with his pregnant girlfriend to come back to him after she has cheated on him, Text Vote1 to 12345 now or call 1900VOTEFOR11
To get Airman Schmuckatelli to kick that cheating B#%*H to the curb and go out and get hammered, Text VOTE2 to 12345 now or Call 1900VOTEFOR22.
To get Airman Schmuckatelli to go after the "maternal copulator" that is seeing his Girlfriend and proceed to work him over with a 9 iron, text VOTE3 to 12345 now or call 1900VOTEFOR33.
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For the sub guys.....PPWO on a CVN is analagous to EOOW on a submarine. You have one PPWO per plant.
EOOW on a CVN stands his watch in DC Central. He is the senior nuke, and the PPWOs report to him. The EOOW on a CVN is always an officer.
I always thought it odd that during my Nimitz days the LDOs and WOs were usually the EOOW and hardly ever the PPWO. So it was common to have two O-3's as the PPWOs and a CWO-2 being their supervisor.
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Concerning the PPOW vs. EOOW comment:
I don't think it was a matter of rank as much as a matter of position in the departmental "org chart".
If I remember correctly: the Principle Assistants (the MPA, RMA, Electrical Officer, Training Officer, and the CRA) and the Technical Assistants (your LDO's and Warrants who were the MPTA, RMTA, etc...) stood in as EOOW.
This left the Div. O's to stand PPWO, as well as some of the senior enlisted. The mechanics were split into RM and M, and each of those were split into two divisions. Plus there was RA which was full of non-nukes but had a nuke officer Div. O.
Like I said before, there was no shortage of officers on a carrier!
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I guess it depends on your timeline. In the early 80's on the Nimitz, the only EOOWs were the warrant officers, LDOs, and the Lieutenant Commanders in the Reactor and Engineering departments. The lieutenants and below, regardless of their title, stood PPWO. I guess the RO and Engineer stood bridge watches, but never bothered to check.
Not a biggie, it was just a curiosity. It was more understandable in the enlisted rates where quals were king and rank not so important. I remember one watch where we had First Classes all over the plant at the various stations and our PPWS was an MM2 who had gotten busted from MM1.
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On my old ship....(que the disgruntled moans)
the only time we ever had a lot of first classes on watch in the plant was when one of MCPOs had to stand his proficiency for CMO/CRW. One of my MCPOs would only stand CMO if all the members of the drill team were on watch with him and generally it wasn't anyone less than a first class qual'd SIR.