I have tried google-ing this information and looking but found no answers. So I'm asking you wise sailors, are there any SSBNs where their homeport is San Diego?.. So far I've only found Fast attacks (SSN) in San Diego. Then again, all that information is from the Pacific fleet.
No, there are no SSBNs homeported in San Diego, CA.
SSBNs carry nuclear weapons and, as you might imagine, nuclear weapons require special considerations. As a result most navy bases cannot provide the level of security necessary. SSBNs are homeported in (as far as I know) Bangor, WA or Kings Bay, GA.
Here's a list of homeports for every ship in the navy.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/lists/homeport.asp
Quote from: sovbob on Aug 25, 2009, 05:36
No, there are no SSBNs homeported in San Diego, CA.
SSBNs carry nuclear weapons and, as you might imagine, nuclear weapons require special considerations. As a result most navy bases cannot provide the level of security necessary. SSBNs are homeported in (as far as I know) Bangor, WA or Kings Bay, GA.
Here's a list of homeports for every ship in the navy.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/lists/homeport.asp
Prior to the nuclear arms reduction treaty we signed with Russian, tactical nuclear weapons were carried on aircraft carriers and virtually all DDG's and missile cruisers. One of the places the weapons were stored was the Seal Beach weapons depot just south of Long Beach. Nuclear weapons have been among us for decades, so the reason San Diego does not home port boomers probably has to do with other issues, and likely more political then not.
Quote from: sovbob on Aug 25, 2009, 05:36
SSBNs carry nuclear weapons and, as you might imagine, nuclear weapons require special considerations. As a result most navy bases cannot provide the level of security necessary. SSBNs are homeported in (as far as I know) Bangor, WA or Kings Bay, GA.
This is BS (or poorly worded). Try to walk in a restricted area where nuke weapons are stored. Places where nuke weapons are stored are heavily guarded, generally by a marine unit. If it was necessary to store nuclear weapons at other navy bases, then security would be upgraded.
DM
Quote from: sovbob on Aug 25, 2009, 05:36
Here's a list of homeports for every ship in the navy.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/lists/homeport.asp
Thank you for the link. Very helpful in my research.
I have been to Kings Bay, GA!!! It is hell trying to get around that area. I was just visiting the Submarine SSBN 740, but just to get there, we passed like 4 check points, physically searched, ID'ed and they made us stand out in the freakin rain, while they searched our bus.
The LT told us that where they assemble the weapons is classified with Marine Recon guys patrolling the borders and they have "shoot first, ask questions later policy"
Each one of those check points there were guards with Arms and just around the Submarine, There were a total of 6 Marines with Full Auto M16's.... So yea, security is REALLY tight!
As oppose to when I went to Mayport, FL. It was completely the opposite. Besides externals gate security, there were no guards with M16s and we were allowed to take pictures.
Seawolf
I live near the Patuxent River Naval Air Station and have played golf on their course. On the way through the base there are signs that read "Do Not Stop On This Road." A friend of mine stopped once and he said that within 10 seconds he was surrounded by Marines with assault rifles wanting to know why he stopped. There is absolutely no indication what they do on that road.
The marines popped out of the ground like hobbits or what?
I was on the Truxtun, CGN-35 in the early 80's. It was the policy then that we could neither confirm nor deny that there was nuclear weapons onboard. Is that policy still in effect?
Here is a little story....
King's Bay, allegedly a missile off load/on load in one of those big canopy piers down the river...
It is summer and hot as jungle monkey balls, greenhouse humid, and I am tired as hell...
And it is only 0945 and still I am drenched...I think my crows matched my shirt, that is how sweaty I was.
So I am carrying crap from A to B and I am carrying it on my right shoulder, so my line of site is obscured to my right as I am walking alongside the pier northward going to the Forward Escape trunk.
Before i picked up my box of whatever it is I was carrying, I noticed all the cute little Marines with their cute little M-16s walking around. I also noticed the yellow painted line that told me to stay on the other side, the side without the little Marine people, my side. My side was about 20 feet wide, it extended from the line to the office with all the other Marines sitting inside.
The exclusion zone was from the yellow line to the pier, across the water, and on to the missile deck.
The exclusion zone was about 4 feet wide.
Logically speaking it would make more sense to walk in the 20 ft wide free zone without the armed guards than walk in the 4 feet zone with the guy and the rifle, and grenades, and knife, and all the other stuff he was wearing in the blazing heat and stifling humidity.
Me being a Navy nuke, logic and reason was optional outside the Engineroom.
I began my journey in the free zone with the 50 pound box of COB or EDMC directed carry this crap to the boat, box.
What I failed to notice was that I was listing to the starboard. Apparently the extra 50 pounds of ballast was pulling me off course ever so slightly. It wasn't like I was making a snap turn to Starboard, more like a gentle turn, kinda like having a inattentive helmsman, scratching himself with the left hand, and trying to steer with the right, and just ever so slightly pulling down on the little wheel thing (I don't know coner terminology).
Now apparently no one on the pier was noticing me drifting to Starboard.
Or everyone was watching me and waiting to see what would happen next.
Assume I started 20 feet away from the little yellow line, about 200 feet from the forward brow.
Now, calculate the hypotenuse of my little triangle.
Assume I was walking at 2 miles per hour.
Let Side A = 200 ft.
Let Side B = 20 ft.
Let Side C= X
Let Intersection AC = the point where I would have safely stepped acrossed the brow.
Let the angle of the hypotenuse in relation to my origin 20 feet from the yellow line = the safe heading I could have maintained.
I will tell you that about 50 ft from the brow crossing, I heard something go clicky click and a cadre of muffled voices yelling at me, i say muffled, because I had a big box in my right ear and my left bicep was in my left ear as my left arm was flopped over my head supporting the box.
Based on the above information, determine the original safe angle and my actual angle of approach.
Quote from: Jason K on Aug 25, 2009, 02:16
Assume I was walking at 2 miles per hour.
Let Side A = 200 ft.
Let Side B = 20 ft.
Let Side C= X
Let Intersection AC = the point where I would have safely stepped acrossed the brow.
Let the angle of the hypotenuse in relation to my origin 20 feet from the yellow line = the safe heading I could have maintained.
I will tell you that about 50 ft from the brow crossing, I heard something go clicky click and a cadre of muffled voices yelling at me, i say muffled, because I had a big box in my right ear and my left bicep was in my left ear as my left arm was flopped over my head supporting the box.
Based on the above information, determine the original safe angle and my actual angle of approach.
Modern nukes don't need to know how to do that problem >:(
Quote from: Tha Hippo on Aug 25, 2009, 03:58
i cant do math that just has random a's b's and c's then the word solve. It really aint nuthin to worry bout. The school aint bad if u apply urself
On-topic: Safe course would be left of zero-zero-six degrees relative...your course shows zero-seven decimal-six relative...
Also, I may or may not have been on the wrong side of one of those lines before as well. Sometimes if the selector detent spring is a little weak or the detent is worn, the object on the business end may not hear the Lance Corporal clicking over from Safe through Fire to Full.
Thirdly, even though it may be inherently obvious what an SSBN does, the confirm or deny policy still holds. If someone needs to ask, they don't have the need to know.
The policy to neither confirm nor deny is still in effect. The ability to carry tactical weapons aboard LA class boats is a matter of public record (i.e.: Jane's Fighting Ships) but the stated policy is still in effect regarding whether or not it's done. Can't speak first hand regarding Boomers.
I've been to the Weapons Station side of NNPTC, the Ballston Spa prototype at Kesselring, and refueling ops in Pearl Harbor. No kidding, the security is really tight. The Marines standing watch in PHNSY were all geared up and ready to go, but I was way more nervous around the private mercenary looking jokers at prototype. I've been on the pier next to a boomer in San Diego and in PH, and topside and pier watches were threatcon Delta (Kevlar helmets, flak vests, machine guns, etc.)
And yeah, at least at the Weapons Station in SC those guards materialize out of thin air. I mean one minute you'd swear there wasn't a person for miles and the next you're looking at what seems like a whole platoon. Do Not Mess with them.
Quote from: DLGN25 on Aug 25, 2009, 10:00
Prior to the nuclear arms reduction treaty we signed with Russian, tactical nuclear weapons were carried on aircraft carriers and virtually all DDG's and missile cruisers.
There are no treaties prohibiting "tactical" nuclear weapons; if the delivery system has a range of less than 300 nm and it isn't ground-based west of the Urals, it isn't covered by INF or START and is fair game. When the
Kosomolets went down off the coast of Norway in 1989, she had two "specials" loaded in the tubes. Talk about a hair-trigger alert for weapon release! https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/95unclass/Montgomery.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/95unclass/Montgomery.html)
Quote from: Glowing Since 09 on Aug 25, 2009, 02:02
The marines popped out of the ground like hobbits or what?
They may as well have.
Did I fail to mention that the road went through the woods? (Hint: That is why you can't see what is going on in that area.)
And Hobbits don't pop out of the ground... at least none of the ones I know.
I was "detained" by a platoon of Marines when I wandered into the wrong part of lower base while mountain biking in Kings Bay years ago. Hearing M-16 slides hit home as 20 Marines run straight for you produces a great moment of clarity to say the least. :D
Quote from: DDMurray on Aug 25, 2009, 11:45
This is BS (or poorly worded). Try to walk in a restricted area where nuke weapons are stored. Places where nuke weapons are stored are heavily guarded, generally by a marine unit. If it was necessary to store nuclear weapons at other navy bases, then security would be upgraded.
DM
My apologies, DM. I meant that currently most naval bases do not have the required security to store nuclear weapons, not that they couldn't. Yes, security can be upgraded, but it's an expensive and time-consuming process. Why would a base implement such systems when Kings Bay and Bangor can sufficiently accomplish the task?
Quoting DoD Directive 5210.41 "Security Policy for Protecting Nuclear Weapons", September
23, 1988
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/dodd-5210_41.htm
"
5. Physical security requirements have a major impact on the
affordability and life-cycle costs of a nuclear weapon system. Similarly,
modernization or product improvement efforts on existing systems must
include reevaluation of system security provisions early in the process to
assess the utility of new technology and to determine changing security
requirements because of changes in deployment mode, location of the
systems, or other factors."
While it's conceivable for every navy base to meet these requirements, it's not practical (or necessary) for them to do so. Hence, the limited options of SSBN homeports, which was the point of my original argument.
Try taking a wrong turn near Camp David sometime ;)
About 10 years ago, I was honored to be invited on a weapons loading trip on the USS __________. Security up the ying yang. 8)
Seal Beach, 1968, standing on deck, in full decon gear watching things come off a railroad car with a bunch of marines all over the place. The counter told it all... Refreasher training, the same year, inside the missile house, decon drill. Not your run of the mill Terriers.
San Diego skyline, 1968
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/tr6oldtimer/Navy/DLGN25-69REFTRASANDIEGO68.jpg)
Quote from: sovbob on Aug 25, 2009, 10:57
My apologies, DM. I meant that currently most naval bases do not have the required security to store nuclear weapons, not that they couldn't. Yes, security can be upgraded, but it's an expensive and time-consuming process. Why would a base implement such systems when Kings Bay and Bangor can sufficiently accomplish the task?
Quoting DoD Directive 5210.41 "Security Policy for Protecting Nuclear Weapons", September
23, 1988
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/dod/dodd-5210_41.htm
"5. Physical security requirements have a major impact on the
affordability and life-cycle costs of a nuclear weapon system. Similarly,
modernization or product improvement efforts on existing systems must
include reevaluation of system security provisions early in the process to
assess the utility of new technology and to determine changing security
requirements because of changes in deployment mode, location of the
systems, or other factors."
While it's conceivable for every navy base to meet these requirements, it's not practical (or necessary) for them to do so. Hence, the limited options of SSBN homeports, which was the point of my original argument.
No need to apologize. I read your post a couple of times and thought somebody could read that and think the navy doesn't have good security. Good research and rebuttal however.
Derek
The report is true that only Fast Attacks are at Subase San Diego. The reason that was offered isn't accurate though. Nuclear weapons can, and have been carried by Nuc Subs at San Diego for years. The reason Ohio Class boats don't call San Diego home is the harbor area and pier arrangements at Subase can't support them. I am not sure which one it was, but when I was on the Pogy in SD, an Ohio Class boat did make a port visit to SD, but it had to tie up at North Island Naval Air Station where the CVN's tie up. The pier and keel depth of the Ohio boats requires that much size.
Quote from: Flyer760 on Aug 30, 2009, 04:43
The report is true that only Fast Attacks are at Subase San Diego. The reason that was offered isn't accurate though. Nuclear weapons can, and have been carried by Nuc Subs at San Diego for years. The reason Ohio Class boats don't call San Diego home is the harbor area and pier arrangements at Subase can't support them. I am not sure which one it was, but when I was on the Pogy in SD, an Ohio Class boat did make a port visit to SD, but it had to tie up at North Island Naval Air Station where the CVN's tie up. The pier and keel depth of the Ohio boats requires that much size.
Cпасибо, Гражданин камрада! Although GRU suspected many of these facts, there was no open source to corroborate.
In appreciation for your service to the Motherland,
Prime Minister Putin himself awards you The Order of Lenin
I thought it was always funny there was a Stalin Peace Prize
Quote from: Flyer760 on Aug 30, 2009, 04:43
The report is true that only Fast Attacks are at Subase San Diego. The reason that was offered isn't accurate though. Nuclear weapons can, and have been carried by Nuc Subs at San Diego for years. The reason Ohio Class boats don't call San Diego home is the harbor area and pier arrangements at Subase can't support them. I am not sure which one it was, but when I was on the Pogy in SD, an Ohio Class boat did make a port visit to SD, but it had to tie up at North Island Naval Air Station where the CVN's tie up. The pier and keel depth of the Ohio boats requires that much size.
I was stationed at NAS North Island for 3 years and to the best of my knowledge, there was never a boomer tied up to any of our piers. During the week that I went to Sub Diesel School(yes weird, a surface nuke going to sub diesel school) I could have sworn that I saw a boomer parked next to one of the piers at the Sub Base in La Jolla. While I am no sub expert by anymeans, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express that night so I would say that I am about 99% sure it was a boomer.
I definately saw a boomer moored at SD Point Loma. They were berthed on the other side of the pier and up a couple of berths. Don't remember which one and wouldn't say if I did.
They didn't look really comfortable and I don't see how they could be accomodated long term there. Not bad for a port call, though.
Quote from: DLGN25 on Aug 26, 2009, 09:55
Seal Beach, 1968, standing on deck, in full decon gear watching things come off a railroad car with a bunch of marines all over the place. The counter told it all... Refreasher training, the same year, inside the missile house, decon drill. Not your run of the mill Terriers.
San Diego skyline, 1968
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/tr6oldtimer/Navy/DLGN25-69REFTRASANDIEGO68.jpg)
I was also on the Billy B, We loaded and off loaded missiles at Seal Beach. There were the conventional and the "special Weapons" that brought out the extra marines. It was good that they gave them a "special purpose"
Quote from: adam_grundleger on Aug 31, 2009, 10:17
I definately saw a boomer moored at SD Point Loma. They were berthed on the other side of the pier and up a couple of berths. Don't remember which one and wouldn't say if I did.
They didn't look really comfortable and I don't see how they could be accomodated long term there. Not bad for a port call, though.
Maybe not a "real" boomer, but SSGN's have visited and been serviced at Point Loma, the USS Georgia (SSGN-729) was there in 2004.
No, it wasn't one of the gunships. Definitely a boomer. Zero doubt.
It's kind of off topic, anyway. They can pull in to lots of places not suited to being their homeport. As far as boomer homeports go, I'm pretty sure that it's either Kings Bay or Bremerton. Wasn't on a boomer so I didn't pay too much attention to them. Ask me about a Pearl Harbor fast boat though...
Off topic, but Subron 7, USS Los Angeles, 1978.
Quote from: Marssim on Sep 01, 2009, 04:11
8)
we don't have a clapping emoticon,... ::)
[clap]
Well, we can finally cross THAT one off the to-do list...
Quote from: Flyer760 on Aug 30, 2009, 04:43
The report is true that only Fast Attacks are at Subase San Diego. The reason that was offered isn't accurate though. Nuclear weapons can, and have been carried by Nuc Subs at San Diego for years. The reason Ohio Class boats don't call San Diego home is the harbor area and pier arrangements at Subase can't support them. I am not sure which one it was, but when I was on the Pogy in SD, an Ohio Class boat did make a port visit to SD, but it had to tie up at North Island Naval Air Station where the CVN's tie up. The pier and keel depth of the Ohio boats requires that much size.
No Ka Oi, little Pogster! I managed to get off there just before the Icex in 1996.
However, IIRC, none of the T-hulls made port calls to SD while I was stationed there. Outside that timeframe, maybe.
The southern most pier (closest to the ocean) can accomidate an OHIO Class sub. SSBN will not spend the night, unless broken, usually just come in to drop off and take on the MIDN during the summer time. GEORGIA wasn't an SSGN in 2004 as of yet.