NukeWorker Forum
Career Path => Navy Nuke => Navy:Getting In => Topic started by: lwrozans on Oct 07, 2009, 08:45
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I'm not trying to turn this thread into a self-improvement seminar, I would simply like to know, what is the best way to go about having superiors (officers at A-school, instructors, etc) notice you are making an effort to be the best addition to the nuclear program you can be.
I'm aware that giving your best effort doesn't necessarily mean that it is good enough. The more I read into these things, the more I see, "being in good standings with your higher-ups is the only way to win".
Is this true?
What are the best ways to go about this without blatantly looking like a brown-noser to the point of annoyance?
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Do your job, do it right, and keep the whining to a minimum. You do NOT need to be a brown noser to be a good sailor, but you do need to follow orders and keep your nose clean! Trust me that they will take notice of you if you are diligent, attentive to your duties/studies, and keep your appearance up. Do your very best and let the chips fall where they may. Remember you can take satisfaction from failure knowing that you tried to the best of your abilities to succeed.
PS: Appearance is a bigger factor that you can imagine. I missed out being a distinguished honor graduate from my advanced operator school because a pen exploded in my breast pocket while standing in formation for inspection. Happened right in front of the inspector and he still nailed me on it. Several instructors argued on my behalf but the MC who was the inspector would have none of it. Look sharp, act smartly, and do your best.
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Haha
At least I didn't start a thread saying I'm the best thing to ever happen to the USN and that everyone should polish my shoes
I can't win with you guys. :P
I'd just like to know your maneuvers in being a more (with lack of a better word) attractive soldier to your betters
I'm not saying I'm an idiot, I'm not saying I'm a genius.
I would just like advice
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Just to add to what stormgoalie said, I always say the same things to young sailors starting out;
Keep your hair in spec.
Keep your boots black.
Keep your uniform pressed.
Keep your chin shaved.
And say sir/ma'am/chief at the end of every sentence.
Believe it or not, being militarily squared away will make you stand out these days.
Good luck!
justin
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Haha
At least I didn't start a thread saying I'm the best thing to ever happen to the USN and that everyone should polish my shoes
I can't win with you guys. :P
You are at least perceptive ;)
I'd just like to know your maneuvers in being a more (with lack of a better word) attractive soldier to your betters
The term is superiors, as in increased responsibility, "better" is not always the case. Think of how you can help him/her do his/her job as that is the job of your unit as a whole (you will be assimilated).
I'm not saying I'm an idiot, I'm not saying I'm a genius.
I would just like advice
We will be the judge of that.
I would like a push-pull bet of 50 quatloos on the newcomer, outcome undecided.
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I understand the play on words that is the word "superiors", but for all intensive purposes, I will be a school boy. My superiors will be past the point which I will be going through.
I also now understand that looking the part is a significant part of being on the favorable side of my instructors and the like. But, what character attributes truly stand out?
I would like to build as many bridges as possible during my time in the USN
I am not enlisting to prove a point to my peers or to show everyone that I am better than them (if anyone has read any of my statements in my other thread, you understand that I am nowhere near being up to snuff in the "character" department)
I am enlisting to do something with my life and would like to make it into as dynamic a process as possible.
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You are at least perceptive ;)
The term is superiors, as in increased responsibility, "better" is not always the case. Think of how you can help him/her do his/her job as that is the job of your unit as a whole (you will be assimilated).
We will be the judge of that.
I would like a push-pull bet of 50 quatloos on the newcomer, outcome undecided.
I like this guy. I will take that bet for a favorable outcome.
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I understand the play on words that is the word "superiors", but for all intensive purposes, I will be a school boy. My superiors will be past the point which I will be going through.
I also now understand that looking the part is a significant part of being on the favorable side of my instructors and the like. But, what character attributes truly stand out?
I would like to build as many bridges as possible during my time in the USN
I am not enlisting to prove a point to my peers or to show everyone that I am better than them (if anyone has read any of my statements in my other thread, you understand that I am nowhere near being up to snuff in the "character" department)
I am enlisting to do something with my life and would like to make it into as dynamic a process as possible.
If you are asking how to be a suck up I will have to change my bet to 50 quatloos against.
The key is being a team player and listening, you haven't. It's not rocket science, focus more on your job, the needs of group, and lose any attitude you may have. I can say as a manager it can get tiresome when %90 of your people think they belong in the top %10 of performers.
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I'd just like to know your maneuvers in being a more (with lack of a better word) attractive soldier to your betters
A fruit-scented perfume is a good start, an edible t-shirt....oh heck, just go subs! :P
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A fruit-scented perfume is a good start, an edible t-shirt....oh heck, just go subs! :P
I heard it was a leather vest, no t-shirt, and chaps for the sub guys ;D Sorry couldn't help myself, being a surface puke and all :D
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I heard it was a leather vest, no t-shirt, and chaps for the sub guys ;D
Chains on your nipple rings is a plus.
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hahaha
I'm actually laughing, Dave
Marlin, I'm not requesting advice on ways to be a suck up
There is a line though; where respect to superiors and brown-nosing meet
I want to stay on the respect side of that line
I'm honestly trying to be humble but also prepare myself to be a respectable kid
I know this forum is not cotillion, but I would like to know any military gentleman protocol
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Marlin, I'm not requesting advice on ways to be a suck up
There is a line though; where respect to superiors and brown-nosing meet
I want to stay on the respect side of that line
I'm honestly trying to be humble but also prepare myself to be a respectable kid
I know this forum is not cotillion, but I would like to know any military gentleman protocol
If you are asking how to be a suck up I will have to change my bet to 50 quatloos against.
The key is being a team player and listening, you haven't. It's not rocket science, focus more on your job, the needs of group, and lose any attitude you may have. I can say as a manager it can get tiresome when %90 of your people think they belong in the top %10 of performers.
For a manager there is a 80/20 rule, you will spend %80 percent of your time on %20 percent of your people usually that is not a good thing for the %20. In a group where most of your time is taken up with the job that is especially true. To put it another way be respectfull and professional and focus on your job. Me and some of my fellow curmugeons have 30 years or more in the business and or Navy listening would be a good thing and losing the attitude would be another. You can be offended by my advice or you can think about it.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong. D.M. ;)
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I know this forum is not cotillion, but I would like to know any military gentleman protocol
The poster exudes a flair for vanity at roughly 700 milliObama/cm2 ...
I wager 50 quatloos against the newcomer, with 50 quatloo bonus for no waiver for the college "distribution" thingie...
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All in time, my friends
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All in time, my friends
My wager stands at 50 quatloos push-pull.
Good luck young thrall. :)
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The poster exudes a flair for vanity at roughly 700 milliObama/cm2 ...
I wager 50 quatloos against the newcomer, with 50 quatloo bonus for no waiver for the college "distribution" thingie...
I would take the bet(s), but my quatloos are too precious to risk. Jury is still out on our young apprentice so I must be prudent ;D
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Stormgoalie you were an HT (glorified turd chaser) admit it, you wanted to be a submariner.
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I'm not trying to turn this thread into a self-improvement seminar, I would simply like to know, what is the best way to go about having superiors (officers at A-school, instructors, etc) notice you are making an effort to be the best addition to the nuclear program you can be.
I'm aware that giving your best effort doesn't necessarily mean that it is good enough. The more I read into these things, the more I see, "being in good standings with your higher-ups is the only way to win".
Is this true?
What are the best ways to go about this without blatantly looking like a brown-noser to the point of annoyance?
Your job the first two years, plus or minus, is to stay anonymous. You stay anonymous by doing what you're told, doing well in school, and staying on the straight and narrow. Nobody is going to give a rat's ass about your past so long as you meet the standards. Once you make it to your boat/ship, your first job is to qualify a watch. Excel at your primary duty - quals. Once you qualify, become an expert at your rating. Remember, any job worth doing, is worth doing right. Keep a positive attitude. You do not have to be perfect. Being above average or excellent in all areas will make you an outstanding Sailor and nuke. This will not happen overnight, but in the end, it will get you noticed by your superiors.
Good Luck
DDM
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+1 to DDM! Do what he said!
It's not as easy as it sounds though... Have long term goals and constantly work for them, if you don't you'll get lost in the swamp of "Why is it 1800 and I'm still here?" crap. It's going to suck sometimes, especially once you get to the boat (or ship, whatever). Suck it up and remember your goals!
In my 21 years in the Navy I NEVER tried to do something because it made my bosses happy, I did it because it was the right thing to do...
Best of luck!
Jay
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Stormgoalie you were an HT (glorified turd chaser) admit it, you wanted to be a submariner.
OUCH, you wound me........ Wasn't an HT, but ok wasn't nuke either...... Heck spent most of my time in the Oil/Chem lab ;D
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I forgot BT HT not much difference. LOL
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I'm still extremely new here to NNPTC but here's my two cents.
You don't want to stand out. I know you want to make a good impression, but honestly the way this system is set up the only people you will actually form a professional bond with are your instructors, because honestly you won't spend any other time with your SLPO, and definitely not any of the officers. The only time you see the senior people are at graduations and indoctrination briefings, or if you put in an officer package and are getting interviewed for it. Any other contact than that is because of disciplinary actions. Course failures don't even see officers to my knowledge, just the CM of your department.
I've seen the spectrum of both things here in NFAS (A-school). I've seen the "S**tbags" here, we had a roll-in who is already out of our class into MilDiv for getting masted under General S**tbaggery (Shorting study hours, falling asleep during class time, failing inspection, course failure, etc.). I've also seen our "Squared Away" sailor, who is just an extreme brown-noser. Our SLPO liked him at first, but it's starting to go the complete opposite direction I believe because he is the first person to snitch at little things and waste our Chief's time over petty issues that should be handled at the lowest level. Nobody likes a brown noser, and nobody likes a snitch. I'm not telling you to lie about anything or hide things, I'm just saying be careful with what you pass on. Despite what this guy thinks, 99% of the class doesn't like him because he constantly sucks up because he's trying to get into an officer program.
The best thing you can do is become completely unnoticed. Other than a couple very minor incidents in the very beginning of classing up, I haven't been talked to by my Chief other than routine interviews -at all-. You do your work, you do your study hours that are mandated to you, and you look your best. The biggest thing here is your haircut. Uniforms are easy to keep in regulations with NWU's here, so that's not much to worry about. Shine your boots every week or two, get a haircut every week, and for formal inspections take some time on your neckerchief and making sure if you're in your whites that it's as clean as possible and ironed. For inspections here it's a lot easier than in boot camp, the biggest thing they stress is haircuts, so I suggest just getting a haircut the day before inspection. You'll know when you have formal ones plenty of time before it actually occurs.
You'll do whatever you want, and that's cool. People are a lot cockier before they get to boot camp generally. Just remember what all the people on these forums are telling you. People very senior and then people like me, a NUB in NFAS still, just do your job and be professional. You won't be noticed quickly at all, but as they say it will pay off and I can tell it will. When you get to the fleet, suck it up and qualify ASAP. That and keeping a positive attitude will take you far.
Best of luck, and if you hit NNPTC before next August feel free to PM me and I'll show you around the place and get you squared away for classing up.
Class 0947-A, graduate NFAS November 13th
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Keep your hair in spec.
Keep your boots black.
Keep your uniform pressed.
Keep your chin shaved.
And say sir/ma'am/chief at the end of every sentence.
Maybe it was the former Marine in me, but when I joined the Navy I did just as you listed. I didn't like looking like a scrounge when in uniform, and doing so would invite the malevolent attention of the XO or Department Head, as well as more than one Chief. Simply maintaining a military appearance and bearing is always great advice. No sense giving them low-hanging fruit to hit you with. (Sorry, I sometimes can't resist using INPO-esque jargon).
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LOL I must have heard "low hanging fruit" a dozen times today in the simulator.
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In order to balance out your relationship with your peers AND superiors you will need to consider the three major roles you play in the Navy (a few short years ago I'd have probably laughed at myself for what I'm about to put up): you're a technician, an employee and a sailor.
As a technician it is your responsibility to know your piece of the nuclear puzzle to the best of your ability (and to know where to look up the stuff you don't know). You'll also be expected to have a fairly detailed understanding of the other rates' equipment and procedures. Upon qualifying your first watch you'll need to actually apply the things you've learned in the pipeline and qualification process. If you don't take it upon yourself to learn as much as you can about your role in the game, you'll make life harder on everybody around you. You'll inevitably learn what a 'Critique' is; just hope you're not the poor soul that causes it. Strive to be the best at what you do, not by the amount of credit you take for it but by the knowledge that you perform your part 100% every time.
As an employee you need to take care of plain old grown-ups business. Show up on time (early never hurts). Execute tasks as cheerfully (tough when you've been awake for 30+ hours) and efficiently as possible. Take criticism thoughtfully and apply it without arguing every step of the way.
As a sailor... you'll learn all of this in boot camp, and a lot of it will make you want to bang your face into a wall from time to time. I had some trouble with this aspect for my first four or so years in the Navy and it caught up with me. I was told directly by an authority figure that I greatly respect that I was an outstanding technician and a reliable employee, but I didn't live up to the basic expectations of a sailor. Until that point I'd have never guessed that that would impact me at all. I thought that my performance as a technician and an employee made up for my lack of willingness to play the military game. Wrong answer.
I guess the moral of the story is that you shouldn't worry about establishing a rapport with your chain of command. If you take care of your professional obligations without trying to stand out you'll be surprised how much you stand out in the long run. Some people will play the social politics game and appear to rise above the crowd, but their status can weaken when the social climate changes. As a reliable technician, employee, and sailor you will find yourself (more or less) immune to the schemes of those around you that will attempt to game the system. You will manage to have the respect of your peers and superiors at the same time (something not often held by brown nosers or rebels).
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Show up on time (early never hurts).
I don't know about you, but showing up early always hurts just a little bit. Something about knowing that you are sacrificing just that much more time when you couldve done something better for those two minutes. ;-)
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I just wanted to pop in and say thank you to just about everybody in this thread for the excellent advice, and for taking your time to allow others to benefit from your experience.
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Dammit, to think I was gonna brown nose my way up to SUPER ADMIRAL.
Well at least you guys know how to bring a guy down to earth.
jk. Thanks for the advice, I really wasn't planning on standing out, I know I'd be too busy making sure I look good ;).
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The way I've stood out down here is by being squared away. My uniform is clean and sharp looking, my boots always have a shin to them (NOT JUST THE !^@^&@& TOES, THE WHOLE DANG BOOT), ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS show up before needed, and I do what I'm told to do, without complaint. Academically, put in MORE than you are required, and always lend forth a helping hand to ANY AND ALLL, even if it's the stinky kid, or the one know one likes. (for example...I personally PT'ed three kids in my class just to ensure they would pass their PFA's. My chief liked that I did that so much, that the Master Chief found out about it, as well as every other Petty Officers and Chief.) Little things mean more than 4.0 GPA.
Be a team player and SHINE YOUR DARN BOOTS...AND NOT JUST THE TOES.
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It doesnt matter much until you get to p-type (if youre looking to be a SPU) or to the fleet anyways. That is where the evaluation score (and your advancement, hence pay) really matters. Anything before that is just a good thing to do because you are a nice person.
BTW just because a master chief knows something that you did doesnt make you a super star.
Jason
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It doesnt matter much until you get to p-type (if youre looking to be a SPU) or to the fleet anyways.
Most people aren't just going to be able to "turn it on" when they hit prototype/fleet. Its much better for him to have an attitude where he strives to excel in everything that he does than to strive to excel in what he feels is important.
BTW just because a master chief knows something that you did doesnt make you a super star.
But yea, this is pretty much spot on.
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Katy and me, me and Katy, but never Katy and I.
Never? Are you sure? How about... "Katy and I went over to mutant's place and schooled him on English grammar."
Incidentally, it's considered incorrect to list yourself before others (i.e. me and Katy)
If you are using two pronouns in a compound subject, there doesn’t seem to be a rule about the order, except that “I” needs to be last. You’d have to say, “She and I went shopping,” not “I and she went shopping.”
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Never? Are you sure? How about... "Katy and I went over to mutant's place and schooled him on English grammar."
Incidentally, it's considered incorrect to list yourself before others (i.e. me and Katy)
The navy trained Katy and me. Katy and I were trained by the Navy.
I learned the cave man method of grammar on this one. Take out "Katy" and see which one sounds correct between I/me. Now insert Katy back into the sentence and it will be correct.
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You know, all of this grammar bashing and smiting is getting old. Lighten up folks.
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You know, all of this grammar bashing and smiting is getting old. Lighten up folks.
You're right, it is pedantic and nitpicky.
As a community (and I know I'm being presumptious, speaking for us all) we are far more interested in the operation and maintenance of nuclear reactor systems than pointing out the shortcomings of others' grammar.
But at the same time, being able to speak (and write) properly is reflective of who you are. You may be the most capable, experienced, and qualified operator in the world. But if you don't communicate well, people will see you as, at best ignorant, at worst stupid.
But I agree, JustinHEMI. Let's steer this thread back on-topic.
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5 degree left rudder to bring us back onto topic heading...
jk. Thanks for the advice, I really wasn't planning on standing out, I know I'd be too busy making sure I look good ;).
It's probably just my curmudgeonly reading of this.... but the era of reflective Ray-Bans and 'I'm too cool for rules' Top Gun stuff is history. The entire Navy Nuclear Propulsion program is under a lot of scrutiny now, patience for screw-ups will be rare.
DDMurray said it best back on 7 October http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,21806.msg113319.html#msg113319 (http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,21806.msg113319.html#msg113319)
Good luck and make your loved ones proud!
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...being able to speak (and write) properly is reflective of who you are. You may be the most capable, experienced, and qualified operator in the world. But if you don't communicate well, people will see you as, at best ignorant, at worst stupid.
The more proficiency you have with effectively communicating technical issues, the farther you will go in your career. Any career, but more important to a technical career. If you compile a 100 page technical report (which many young nukes in commercial or the Navy do NOT do...yet), and it's full of spelling errors, your technical content and all related conclusions are brought into question. When you give your boss something to sign, do NOT ever assume he'll find your mistakes or treat it like a "first draft". "Complete Staff Work"...this could be a long and detailed separate thread alone.
In contrast, I've read reports with perfect grammar and spelling that have worthless technical content. The secret (shh...don't tell anyone) is to have BOTH good, sound technical conclusions AND perfect grammar/spelling. Then, be prepared to publicly present your conclusions before a large audience. If you can do all that, you'll be well on your way to senior officer/manager level. If you're still in Boot Camp though...don't lose too much sleep over these skills. Simply concentrate on the "rules of a military sentry" for now and just do what you're told. Good mentors in the future will steer you where you need to go. Meanwhile, spare us the SMS text etiquette...that level of informal communication doesn't fit into a nuclear community forum.
Very few people have the same "attention to spelling/grammar detail" in cell phone SMS messages, chat room messages, Facebook updates, personal emails, work emails, personal letters, formal letters, Navy FitReps, or Congressional letters. Browsing business articles speak of the evils of informal emails being released beyond their intended recipients. (Authors beware!) So, what can you conclude about someone's spelling/grammer on NukeWorker.com? Well, if they're posting like they do in a chat room or SMS message, then they're not taking our community very seriously (and they get a well-deserved commensurate response).
I don't conclude they're "stupid", but maybe a bit lazy and definitely overly informal. While there are no rules here on grammar, the experienced/senior forum members can simply choose to ignore the ignorant. Personally, I'm content to see two seemingly junior boot camp "NUBs" publicly counseling each other with bad advice in the forum without recognizing the lack of senior member feedback to their issue. Some people just need to learn the hard way. I've learned in 20+ years that if someone senior to you ignores your question/statement, it probably was NOT an accident.
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Wow, so much for the get back on track idea.
I agree 100% with Co60 and Bob that effective communication and writing skills are important for a career. What I have issue with is what this forum has degenerated into, and that is bashing/smiting for every minor stray off grammerical (that is not a word, BTW, maybe I need smote) perfection. And yes, it is bashing, it isn't just a friendly gesture anymore. Instead, the corrector often puts down the offender in a way which is not helpful and is nothing but demeaning. Where I come from, trying to advance yourself by belittling others just makes you look like the ass, especially when you are wrong.
I am all for fixing these young ones that come here and speak to us in "text," or other forms of gibberish. But hammering and smiting a guy because he says "Katy and I" or "Me and Katy" is just silly. And no one is being stupid or lazy or ignoring the ignorant if they let these minor mistakes go by. The point is, this forum has taken grammar/spelling correction to the extreme, and I think it reflects badly on the users of this forum.
I am sure this post is full of errors, yet the NRC is about to grant me an SRO license... go figure.
/soapbox
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Most people aren't just going to be able to "turn it on" when they hit prototype/fleet. Its much better for him to have an attitude where he strives to excel in everything that he does than to strive to excel in what he feels is important.
But yea, this is pretty much spot on.
I never meant to come across as thinking I'm a superstar or that having a Master Chief know something I did was golden, I was simply stating that doing LITTLE things will get you noticed, that it doesn't take a 4.0. I do apologize if I came off wrong with that statement.
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I never meant to come across as thinking I'm a superstar or that having a Master Chief know something I did was golden, I was simply stating that doing LITTLE things will get you noticed, that it doesn't take a 4.0. I do apologize if I came off wrong with that statement.
You didn't. Some people are just too full of themselves to see past their own noses.
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Wow, so much for the get back on track idea.
I agree 100% with Co60 and Bob that effective communication and writing skills are important for a career. What I have issue with is what this forum has degenerated into, and that is bashing/smiting for every minor stray off grammerical (that is not a word, BTW, maybe I need smote) perfection. And yes, it is bashing, it isn't just a friendly gesture anymore. Instead, the corrector often puts down the offender in a way which is not helpful and is nothing but demeaning. Where I come from, trying to advance yourself by belittling others just makes you look like the ass, especially when you are wrong.
I am all for fixing these young ones that come here and speak to us in "text," or other forms of gibberish. But hammering and smiting a guy because he says "Katy and I" or "Me and Katy" is just silly. And no one is being stupid or lazy or ignoring the ignorant if they let these minor mistakes go by. The point is, this forum has taken grammar/spelling correction to the extreme, and I think it reflects badly on the users of this forum.
I am sure this post is full of errors, yet the NRC is about to grant me an SRO license... go figure.
/soapbox
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/op-licensing-files/region1.pdf
You are starting the test on Monday (one of the 9 SROI)?
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http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operator-licensing/op-licensing-files/region1.pdf
You are starting the test on Monday (one of the 9 SROI)?
Correct. :)
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Remember what I told you. I just took my license exam this last July. Good luck to you.
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I do, and thank you!
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I didn't realize I started a grammar war. Sorry I never paid much attention to my teachers in grade school, unless it had to do with numbers...
But to be quite honest... I don't know the correct way to say anything. SO please correct me when I'm wrong, just don't get all fussy about it.
Thanks,
Mike
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I didn't realize I started a grammar war. Sorry I never paid much attention to my teachers in grade school, unless it had to do with numbers...
But to be quite honest... I don't know the correct way to say anything. SO please correct me when I'm wrong, just don't get all fussy about it.
Thanks,
Mike
It's more of an algebra function, where :
(grammar errors) x (poster's stated coolness factor) x (reader's age)
Angst = ---------------------------------------------------------------------
( poster's time served )
your mileage may vary...
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It's more of an algebra function, where :
(grammar errors) x (poster's stated coolness factor) x (reader's age)
Angst = ---------------------------------------------------------------------
( poster's time served )
your mileage may vary...
I had to copy and save this for later use...I did fix the colon spacing in my copy, however. Doh!
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probably with one of those teeny tiny twidget screwdrivers! :P
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You guys sure know how make someone feel welcomed.
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Aren't you shipping out soon?
Don't you have a girlfriend/fiance?
What are you doing here trading barbs with us ne'er do wells?!?!
You younger guys exist in a whole different reality than I remember :-\,....
If you got this much time to surf the web go here,.....
welcome aboard shipwreck,....
I guess I deserve every bit of it. I expected criticism when coming aboard the forum. I will take it as preparation for the crap I will endure while I'm in the service. You guys are also a wealth of information, and for that I am grateful. Keep it up :)
PS. I won't be around for a couple months starting Monday, wish me luck. :P
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Good luck! I look forward to hearing from you when you get done with boot!
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I guess I deserve every bit of it. I expected criticism when coming aboard the forum. I will take it as preparation for the crap I will endure while I'm in the service. You guys are also a wealth of information, and for that I am grateful. Keep it up :)
PS. I won't be around for a couple months starting Monday, wish me luck. :P
Keeps your eyes open, mouth shut, and sleep whenever you're allowed to... You don't know when you're going to get to sleep again!
Best of luck, and let us know how it goes!
Jay