NukeWorker Forum
News and Discussions => Nuke News => Topic started by: Ksheed on Oct 13, 2015, 10:13
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Oct 13 (Reuters) - Entergy Corp said Tuesday it will close its Pilgrim nuclear power plant in Massachusetts no later than June 1, 2019, because of poor market conditions, reduced revenues and increased operational costs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/entergy-close-massachusetts-pilgrim-nuclear-134344965.html;_ylt=AwrC1zGDDx1WIHwA6EXQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg-- (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/entergy-close-massachusetts-pilgrim-nuclear-134344965.html;_ylt=AwrC1zGDDx1WIHwA6EXQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--)
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Fitzy supposed to get the word later this month.
Time to cue Monty Python again...
Glad I'm close to retirement. It was a good ride while it lasted, but this industry is dying...
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you cannot retire yet!!!!!!!!!!!!
we have DnDs to perform!!!!!!!!!
:P :) ;) 8)
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Let the wage free fall begin, more plants close, more surplus workers fighting for fewer and fewer positions. Kind of like regular workers who have been competing with illegal aliens.
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Not to worry. The retiring and expiring will account for most of the lost jobs.
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Not to worry. The retiring and expiring will account for most of the lost jobs.
The retiring and expiring are not the numbers needed to make up when you lose an entire jobsite. Look at San Onofre, thousands of job and many of the employed are not at expiring or retiring age. It is going to cause a bulge, especially if Illinois plants go down for good.
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The retiring and expiring are not the numbers needed to make up when you lose an entire jobsite. Look at San Onofre, thousands of job and many of the employed are not at expiring or retiring age. It is going to cause a bulge, especially if Illinois plants go down for good.
You are so delusional. EVERY report, and EVERY outage will tell you that there is a SHORTAGE of qualified workers.
Workforce shortage; From mechanic to engineer to CEO, the average employee’s age industry wide is 48. By 2011, a wave of personnel could exit the industry—27 percent through retirement and 13 percent for other reasons, according to the Nuclear Energy Institute, an industry group in Washington. There’s an added twist: In the 1980s and most of the 1990s, the nuclear power industry simultaneously stopped hiring and ceased supporting college and university nuclear education. Not only is the industry heading toward a retirement cliff, but there’s no safety net of new recruits or midcareer engineers behind them.
The ageing workforce is also a key driver of recruitment needs in the USA. The Nuclear Energy
Institute (NEI) biennially conducts a workforce analysis for the US nuclear power industry. Its 2009
survey is in progress. Its 2007 survey, for which 20 out of 26 utilities supplied data (representing 85%
of utility employees), indicated that the age profile of the workforce has become older (see FIG. V-5):
• in engineering only 13% of employees were under 33 years old (compared to an expected
value of 25% for a hypothetical stable work force of 22- to 62-year olds);
• in operations only 14% of employees were under 33 years old;
• in maintenance only 6% of employees were under 33 years old; and
• in radiation protection only 4% of employees were under 33 years old.
The survey also found that, for skilled trades, there were indications of increased shortages in welders,
ironworkers and pipefitters.
The nation is experiencing a nuclear energy skilled worker shortage. A significant number of the incumbent workforce is, or will become, eligible for retirement.
https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php?topic=6470.0
https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/gc54inf-3-att5_en.pdf
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/magazine/a-labor-shortage-for-us-nuclear-plants-07072011.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/staff-shortage-at-nuclear-station-concerns-regulator/article4276916/
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13161031.Nuclear_staff_shortage_sparks_MoD_safety_alert/
http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/WorkforceAnalysisStaffingPlan-HQ-NA-00-SH-2014_0.pdf
http://www.workforce.com/articles/nuclear-reaction-staffing-the-nuclear-power-renaissance
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I will advise young people there is still a future in Nuclear Power based on the previous post. Do you mind if I quote you?
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You don't seem very content.
sum thyme's aye think content1's first name is mal.
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It's difficult to read between the lines on this announcement, except 2019 is a long way off. Entergy may be sabre rattling, like Exelon constantly does in Illinois, which can have an effect. One thing I noticed is the CEO bullet points on why it is difficult to make money are too PC. Everyone is shy about calling a spade a spade, and that is a problem.
But there is that VY1 data point; makes one think.... "I dare ya not to listen."
These announcements can be more generic, "Company XYZ announces closure because not making money." So the surprise is....? When a "paid for" company asset can't make money selling a needed product, the game is rigged. It's time to ID the riggers.
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Mike is right, there is a good future for people in certain fields.
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No, Entergy is closing Pilgrim, most likely before 2019. It will cost well over a 100 million to get her out of column 4. They are marginal at best and with a under 1000 MW output they wont get better. Exellon isn't sabre rattling. You have a shrinking load profile and its a LOT easier and less expensive to build a CogEn plant.
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lemme help as I have mentioned before,...
2016 - Final Rule on enhanced transportation and security is due to be published,...
the POTUS' big nails into the coffin of splitting atoms for commercial power generation,...
(IIRC, it's been awhile since I checked at http://adams.nrc.gov to fact check)
I've been busy,... :P ;) :) 8)
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sum thyme's aye think content1's first name is mal.
If you go into the Navy as a Nuke, you are trained for commercial work so if you enter the field, it is no loss or additional cost to be there as a Nuke. If you are not Navy trained, is it worth the cost of the education to work in a dying career path, as all my nuclear training is worthless outside of the nuclear field? When young people ask, "Should I get the education to be a Nuke worker?", should I say "Yes" and lead them down a path to unemployment, am I helping them? (Remember buggy whip training and slide ruler manufacturing are useless skills today) I am not "mal" but truthful if I give them the current state of the business.
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Is anyone suspicious that Entergy is selling their gas plant in RI so soon after they bought it, and then they announce that they are going to shutdown Pilgrim. A new application for the domino theory? No buyers, just bye-ers.
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If you go into the Navy as a Nuke, you are trained for commercial work so if you enter the field, it is no loss or additional cost to be there as a Nuke. If you are not Navy trained, is it worth the cost of the education to work in a dying career path, as all my nuclear training is worthless outside of the nuclear field? When young people ask, "Should I get the education to be a Nuke worker?", should I say "Yes" and lead them down a path to unemployment, am I helping them? (Remember buggy whip training and slide ruler manufacturing are useless skills today) I am not "mal" but truthful if I give them the current state of the business.
Your typical doomsday speech about the future job outlook of nuclear workers is only marginally relevant to Rad Techs. Every other classification at a commercial nuke facility could easily be transferred over to fossil plants or even factory production facilities. So the "sky is falling" talk becomes old fast for most people. Even if the bottom fell out on commercial nukes, Rad Techs will be needed for decades to come with all the associated decommissioning and spent fuel storage work on the horizon.
The big players in this industry are already positioning themselves to reap the benefits of the decommissioning work. Here are a few facts for you.
1.The US has 15 NPPs in either DECON or SAFSTOR
2. 14 will reach the end of their original design lives within the next 10 years.
3. NDT funds totaled close to $58 billion at the end of 2013.
4. Total decommissioning cost estimates have risen 44% since 2008.
5. in 2013, US decommissioning cost estimates equaled almost $80 billion.
Somebody's going to have to take those smears and get those dose rates as the fitters and ironworkers demo out all that pipe. [2cents]
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If you go into the Navy as a Nuke, you are trained for commercial work.....
not,...
you are demonstrably trainable for commercial work, not trained for commercial work,...
........If you are not Navy trained, is it worth the cost of the education to work in a dying career path, as all my nuclear training is worthless outside of the nuclear field?.........
you're typing of yourself and your experience,...
the difference is maybe 15 to 20 percent for transferable nuke skills to non-nuke work,...
which still leaves you in the upper half of the median wage category for US of A workers,...
if you must have that 15% to 20% you're on the financial edge already,...
analogous to folks being "hooked" on perdiem as part of their income, which per diem should not be,...
most folks just like that extra percentage for being an occupational rad worker, ergo they never leave nuke or come back as it suits them,...
...(Remember buggy whip training and slide ruler manufacturing are useless skills today)...
again not,...
you do need to be awful dam good at it though if you want to command the compensation rate needed to earn a living because the market is very small and exclusive for both endeavours,...
but if you're good enough, you can make that living,...
there is just no longer a market for the "oh by the ways" and the "also rans",...
but the masters can still get by,...
http://www.drivingessentials.com/Whips.php
http://www.rose-vintage-instruments.com/newlook/selected.php?type=Slide%20Rules
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I would report your implied threat to the moderator, but YOU ARE THE MODERATOR.
Actually, that would be me.... :-\ ;)
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Actually, that would be me.... :-\ ;)
You win, I will stop posting and only read in the background without comment. :-[
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You win, I will stop posting and only read in the background without comment. :-[
YOU LIAR!!!!!!!!!!
You made the sale. I will leave the nuke business, at least as a traveling tech, and I no longer have a reason to post. Thanks for the encouragement. My family thanks you too, Administrator. They welcome me back, and I get to see my grandchild grow. I am sure my recruiter will understand.
If you insist on annoying folks just have the balls up grit to be content that it's what you do,...
Maybe it's what you do best,...
but this notion of a self fade is just a lie,...
just be what you be,... [Flamer]
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YOU LIAR!!!!!!!!!!
If you insist on annoying folks just have the balls up grit to be content that it's what you do,...
Maybe it's what you do best,...
but this notion of a self fade is just a lie,...
just be what you be,... [Flamer]
Ever heard of the concept of being a poor winner. I have retired from the business and have no further concern for it. You seem to get a perverse pleasure on dog-piling on someone who gives up. You might instead ask why I give up so easily. Irony can be a pain in the butt. From behind the scenes I get the last laugh and you will never know why. ;) My final questions were for a purpose, which, in you anger, supplied what I needed. O:)
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Ever heard of the concept of being a poor winner. I have retired from the business and have no further concern for it. You seem to get a perverse pleasure on dog-piling on someone who gives up. You might instead ask why I give up so easily. Irony can be a pain in the butt. From behind the scenes I get the last laugh and you will never know why. ;) My final questions were for a purpose, which, in you anger, supplied what I needed. O:)
get over yourself pal,...
I'm not angry,...
I'm not annoyed,...
I am amused,....
the flamer is not angry,....
the flamer is having fun,...
BZ's general observation on Internet forums/threads etal, By the 5th post in any thread it starts drifting off topic. By 12 to 15 it has nothing to do with the original topic and if it surives to 30 or so it magically gets back on topic. This applies almost everywhere.
Mike
time to come home on this thread,...
for the brothers and sisters out and about at the Cape, I do feel for ya and it may be time to brush up on your Thomas Wolfe and look south for any future of pushing 'trons by splitting atoms,...
as much as you may malign bubbaeze and get 'er done (and I know you do 'cause I hear it all the time), they are the only ones anymore who seem to understand that growth requires investment,...
the rest of this foolass country fantasizes that electrons move through the grid by the pfm of rainbows, fairy dust and unicorns,....
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Now, Now boys. Lets get to the real theme of this post. Pilgrim is in a not to unique situation. They are a one burner plant, low Meg output, and Entergy does not want to deal with a small nuke. They have put no money into the plant as it has aged. They have not replaced essential personnel at the site who have left for a very long time. People leave, they slap the increased workload on already taxed people and expect the quality to remain. I recently spent almost a year there and was astonished at the downward spiral of the facility and the condition of the personnel staffing that I saw. I loved working there but was in awe of how it has degraded over the years, all from the Entergy attitude. It was also very obvious that the NRC has allowed this to happen at such a viable energy resource such as Pilgrim. I felt sorry for the good folks who were employed by Entergy who worked their tails, in most cases, to the bone. But what I saw most interesting was that the union folks that were there still did not realize that their overall wages, as a result of the union (not just the utility union), were only driving the nail further into a coffin that Entergy was building. Some people only worked as hard as they needed to but did not take the extra effort because the Union claimed they did not have to. These statements are not being made to start a long dead debate over unions or no unions but more to emphasize that in some cases the unions and their positions are costing workers their jobs, not only in nuclear but other industries. I personally despise companies that outsource to foreign countries but we have to think sometimes, are we the reason? Entergy is using economics as the basis for their decision but I think that it is a lot more.
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Well, that escalated quickly. Looks like I missed a good portion of it too, judging by the quotes from posts that no longer exist in the thread.
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I worked at Pilgrim for a significant portion of 1978 and at the time I considered it the only plant I had worked in that deserved to be shut down. I am very pro-nuclear and hate to even think about plants being shut down, but the material condition of the plant, the radiological conditions in the plant and the general lack of caring by the employees (not all of them but many) led me to believe that it was not being cared for properly. Piled on to all of that was a pointed animosity toward the contractors that were there to help (or steal jobs depending on your point of view) which made it an unpleasant place to work as well. We were called names, not allowed in any union break rooms or bathrooms, and looked down on even though we were doing jobs they did not want to do or were apparently not capable of doing. Again, there were exceptions to the rule, but most of the union employees were belligerent, at best. We were pleasantly surprised to find house RPs that were not. I promised myself I would not go back, and I held myself to that promise.
Having said all of that, I did hear over the years that conditions improved, both materially and socially and I am sorry to hear of the plant's imminent demise. I hate to see any plant shutdown before its life is up and even more so when considering the effect on the workforce. Good luck to those who have had their cheese moved.
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I worked at Pilgrim for a significant portion of 1978 and at the time I considered it the only plant I had worked in that deserved to be shut down. I am very pro-nuclear and hate to even think about plants being shut down, but the material condition of the plant, the radiological conditions in the plant and the general lack of caring by the employees (not all of them but many) led me to believe that it was not being cared for properly. Piled on to all of that was a pointed animosity toward the contractors that were there to help (or steal jobs depending on your point of view) which made it an unpleasant place to work as well. We were called names, not allowed in any union break rooms or bathrooms, and looked down on even though we were doing jobs they did not want to do or were apparently not capable of doing. Again, there were exceptions to the rule, but most of the union employees were belligerent, at best. We were pleasantly surprised to find house RPs that were not. I promised myself I would not go back, and I held myself to that promise.
Having said all of that, I did hear over the years that conditions improved, both materially and socially and I am sorry to hear of the plant's imminent demise. I hate to see any plant shutdown before its life is up and even more so when considering the effect on the workforce. Good luck to those who have had their cheese moved.
I don't want to condemn Pilgrim as it is today but RDTroja is right, Boston Edison at that time made some bad choices that made it a very bad place to work radiologically. Pilgrim elected to run with a batch of fuel bundles from a supplier that Vermont Yankee shutdown and removed instead. I worked VY in 79 when they sipped and removed leaker's in 84 I did the piping replacement at Pilgrim. Pilgrims backwash receiver room could not be entered due to dose rates and general dose rates around the plant were much higher than average for a boiler of that type. When we started removing all of the Control Rod Drives we averaged 10 to 25 ManRem per drive it dropped later with some aggressive radiological controls.
Pilgrims current problem is economics not operational safety.
Cheap Gas Claims Another Nuclear Victim
http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Cheap-Gas-Claims-Another-Nuclear-Victim.html
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Uh Marlin must not be paying attention to what Column 4 means
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Uh Marlin must not be paying attention to what Column 4 means
For Pilgrim:
Multiple/Repetitive Degraded Cornerstone Column
Pilgrim is in Column 4 because of one parallel white inspection finding for a white performance indicator in the Initiating Events Cornerstone originating in 3Q2013, one parallel white inspection finding for a white performance indicator in the Initiating Events Cornerstone originating in 4Q2013, and an additional white inspection finding in the Mitigating Systems Cornerstone originating in 1Q2015, resulting in Pilgrim meeting the criteria for a repetitive degraded cornerstone.
For ANO 2:
Multiple/Repetitive Degraded Cornerstone Column
ANO Unit 2 is in Column 4 because of a yellow finding in the Initiating Events Cornerstone originating in 1Q2014, a yellow finding in the Mitigating Systems Cornerstone originating in 3Q2014, and a greater-than-green finding in the Security Cornerstone originating in 1Q2014.
(is that a typo for ANO Unit 1, or is it a reporting criteria for multi-unit sites which share the same security force which I am not schooled on [and when it comes to security stuff perhaps I should not be {schooled that is}]?)
for a short synopsis of how your favorite lil' commercial nuke plant is faring read here:
http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/actionmatrix_summary.html
the Action Matrix Summary at the bottom is the reader's digest version of the short synopsis for those too busy with outage to linger in front of the monitor,.... [coffee]
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Uh Marlin must not be paying attention to what Column 4 means
They are operating and could continue to operate if they performed the upgrades required as many nuclear plants have had to do in the past and aging plants will have to do in the future. Cheap gas is the reason they have decided to close. You can reasonable argue that it is one of the factors, but it is certainly not the only one nor the primary one, at least not historically.
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Looks like Region 2 is the place to be.
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Looks like Region 2 is the place to be.
China would be better [whistle]
China Sets Sights On 110 Reactors By 2030
http://nuclearstreet.com/nuclear_power_industry_news/b/nuclear_power_news/archive/2015/10/16/china-sets-sights-on-110-reactors-by-2030-101601.aspx#.ViGEqvmrQhc
How's your Mandarin :P
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Those of us still at Kewaunee,(for not much longer) watch this with heavy hearts indeed. We were in the regulatory doldrums when big D bought us. The whole gamut of issues - training programs, equipment issues, corrective action program, etc. In a few short years everything was turned around to the point that KPS was a top decile performer in just about every category that makes up the 30 ft. wide performance indicator chart. Many millions spent - entire new switch yard and main transformers, huge MOV upgrade, and the list goes on. End result - 5/15/13 one of the best running plants in the world down for the count. Of course the main culprit was said to be the evil natural gas. Within a month or so the local natural gas supplier - former owner WPS - was telling customers to buck up for the upcoming winter season as they were predicting higher prices. Go figure. As an ex-navy (yes- an ELT) type - I never thought I would identify with Lt. Col. Bill Kilgore - 1st Battalion 9th Air Cav- substituting steam for napalm and my longing for the odiferous content of it in the morning.
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China Sets Sights On 110 Reactors By 2030
One of my pastimes:
In the USA today,...
Total nukes on the grid – 99
Nukes on the grid < 10YO – 0
Nukes on the grid 10YO to 20YO – 1
Nukes on the grid 20YO to 30YO – 22
Nukes on the grid 30YO to 40YO – 38
Nukes on the grid > 40YO – 38
Nukes on the grid average age – 35YO
Nukes on the grid median age – 37YO
Let it sink in slowly,..... :-\
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So the 70 million they have sunk into upgrades is...
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In the loss column on their tax return.
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because some of you are morbid enough to ask,....
One of my pastimes:
In the USA today,...
Nukes on the grid > 45YO - 5
Let it sink in slowly,..... :-\