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wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #25 on: Aug 31, 2008, 12:20 »
   
   ...i get the impression this a three loop westinghouse pwr...

   ...do you think other pwr designs have similar soft shut down procedures...

   





 
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2008, 12:42 by wlrun3 »

Offline Nutty Neutron

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #26 on: Aug 31, 2008, 12:59 »
Actually I work at a B&W PWR.  I am not familiar with Westinghouse Plants.  I have a buddy who used to be a core designer for Westinghouse and I can ask him how they can be shut down. 

I know in my plants last outage that the soft shutdown did give good results for ALARA.

ISFSI, you now got me thinking about the insertion time STs.  I need to look at my stuff and see what the details are for my plant.  I do know that individual rods can be withdrawn during a shutdown for testing.  I have seen some of this testing and it takes a long time.  I am not sure however about them being tested for drop times during this testing.
« Last Edit: Aug 31, 2008, 01:21 by The Nutty Neutron »
"Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills."

    Flavius Josephus, Jewish Historian, AD 37--101, on the Roman military

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #27 on: Aug 31, 2008, 02:54 »
Actually I work at a B&W PWR.  I am not familiar with Westinghouse Plants.  I have a buddy who used to be a core designer for Westinghouse and I can ask him how they can be shut down. 

I know in my plants last outage that the soft shutdown did give good results for ALARA.

ISFSI, you now got me thinking about the insertion time STs.  I need to look at my stuff and see what the details are for my plant.  I do know that individual rods can be withdrawn during a shutdown for testing.  I have seen some of this testing and it takes a long time.  I am not sure however about them being tested for drop times during this testing.

   ...oconee...only multiple reactor B&W site...

   ...what percentage exposure reduction, roughly, would you estimate was achieved by the soft shutdown compared to non-soft shutdown outages at your site...


ISFSI

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #28 on: Sep 01, 2008, 12:22 »
AFAIK the rod drop times Tech Spec is only a CE design requirement. 

At ANO, I don't recall U1 (B&W) having this requirement, but U2 (CE) did.

That being said, Chemistry can probably do some calc's to get an idea of the significance of the issue prior to shutdown.  Based on this information, the schecule should have built-in to it a reasonable amount of time to complete the waste gasw permit and release. 

Is it possible that there could be a tiger team designated with players from each group that can ramrod this issue for best timing/limited dose?  What about searching through the INPO database for information that might prove beneficial (best practices document)?

Just a thought...

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #29 on: Sep 01, 2008, 02:02 »
 

   ..."What about searching through the INPO database for information that might prove beneficial (best practices document)?"...

   ...results of search...

   ..."The Department of Energy and INPO have a contract that provides DOE nuclear facility federal and management and operating company employees access to certain INPO products and services. The activities specified in the contract provide the Department with operational experiences, methods, information, and data developed for the commercial nuclear industry through the programs and activities undertaken by INPO. Specifically,

Sharing of commercial industry operating experience and data (lessons learned)

Copies of INPO Guidelines, Good Practices and periodicals

Limited attendance at industry-wide workshops and conferences

On-site special assistance visits

Participation in training courses at INPO's offices

Access to INPO's Nuclear Network, a secure web site "


   ...before i return to my previous attempt to access this wealth of information, can you offer assistance...

   ...not just for this thread's noble gas topic, but, optimally, the inpo "lessons learned" function...



   ..."INPO maintains a secure private website accessible only by the member utilities."...

 





« Last Edit: Sep 01, 2008, 03:48 by wlrun3 »

ISFSI

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #30 on: Sep 01, 2008, 07:18 »
Sorry...I'm not certain how to overcome that Security INPO thing.  Perhaps the host site where you're at (or going) can offer some assistance through their membership in INPO.  I would suggest talking to someone in the Corrective Actions and Assesments arena.

hth-

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #31 on: Sep 01, 2008, 08:09 »
Sorry...I'm not certain how to overcome that Security INPO thing.  Perhaps the host site where you're at (or going) can offer some assistance through their membership in INPO.  I would suggest talking to someone in the Corrective Actions and Assesments arena.

hth-

   ...thankyou...i knew this but, given your sincere effort to help on this topic, i didn't want you to think i hadn't made efforts to answer my own questions through research...



Offline dinutt

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #32 on: Sep 02, 2008, 08:12 »
wlrun3  I did the same research and got pretty much the same response trying to see what they had on the site oh well..this topic is continuing thru my email too with still good info.thanks again  ;D

Di

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #33 on: Sep 02, 2008, 08:30 »


   ...this may be the death of your thread for now as a quarter of the industry goes into outage...

   ...we'll pick this up again after Thanksgiving...

   ...i would like to understand how this issue has been handled through out the industry since TMI...

   ...what about BWR's...

   ...can these isotopes be descriminated out by the new pcm's and portal monitors...

   ...can the current mass fast scan body count practice be streamlined/eliminated...

   ...can departmental coordination in response make a difference...

   ...again, thankyou Di...


Offline grantime

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #34 on: Sep 02, 2008, 10:07 »

   ...
   ...can these isotopes be descriminated out by the new pcm's and portal monitors...
   ...

Since these are reactor produced I don't' think that you want to discriminate them out.  just because the contamination is from a gasous source it is still contamination. 
breath in, breath out, move on----j buffett

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #35 on: Sep 02, 2008, 11:06 »
Since these are reactor produced I don't' think that you want to discriminate them out.  just because the contamination is from a gasous source it is still contamination. 

   ...i was thinking that if we could readily program our pcm's and portal monitors to ignore selected nuclides at concentrations below a chosen level, as has been the unrealized industry wide goal with naturally occurring radioactive material, we may be able to effectively eliminate rca egress issues...hard hats, gloves, documentation, noble gas/iodine...

   ...on second thought, you're right...

   ... we have to account for reactor produced radioactive material and i can't think of any serious improvement on what we're already doing for noble gas/iodine...

   ...are there any realistic ways to improve on the current practice of long waits at the rca egress control point followed by body counts and showers...

   ...by the way, what was it like...taking both parts of the chp exam on the same day...





   

Offline grantime

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #36 on: Sep 03, 2008, 06:20 »

   ...are there any realistic ways to improve on the current practice of long waits at the rca egress control point followed by body counts and showers...

   ...by the way, what was it like...taking both parts of the chp exam on the same day...
  


After 9 hours of test my head hurt but luckily there was a bar withing walking distance of motel ;D  I still think taking both parts is the best way to go .  All the hours of study are not geared to a particular style of test.  Both sections test same body of knowledge-- so might as well take a chance.  I'll know more when I get results in Nov....

Not sure there is a good answer to preventing noble gas contamination.  Anti stat sprays (for clothing) helps some.  But at end of day what ever you get on/in you is going to have to decay away.  Lucky that most of these gases are relatively short lived
breath in, breath out, move on----j buffett

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #37 on: Sep 03, 2008, 11:50 »
After 9 hours of test my head hurt but luckily there was a bar withing walking distance of motel ;D  I still think taking both parts is the best way to go .  All the hours of study are not geared to a particular style of test.  Both sections test same body of knowledge-- so might as well take a chance.  I'll know more when I get results in Nov....

Not sure there is a good answer to preventing noble gas contamination.  Anti stat sprays (for clothing) helps some.  But at end of day what ever you get on/in you is going to have to decay away.  Lucky that most of these gases are relatively short lived

   ...was the nature of the part II exam similar to the most recent part II exams offered on the abhp website...

   ...what is your advice for preparation for part II...

   ...do disposable ( orex, disolvetech, etc. ) scrubs, in context of the noble gas issue, make a significant difference...

   ...congratulations on following through on the exam...


Offline grantime

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Re: Noble gas ???
« Reply #38 on: Sep 03, 2008, 01:28 »
   ...   ...do disposable ( orex, disolvetech, etc. ) scrubs, in context of the noble gas issue, make a significant difference...

I think that they help.  Particularly in "clean" area that normally don't require PC's but does have some noble gas
breath in, breath out, move on----j buffett

 


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