Is it safe?

[Steve-O]

I'm gettig ready to do the training for a Jr. HP but want to do due diligence to make sure the work is safe. I know there is a range of duties involved, but what might be some examples of what the work would consist of? Is there exposure to radiation? What are the safeguards? Any reading material anyone can refer me to to educate myself about the possible risks involved in the job? Thanks for the help!

Steve-O

[vikingfan]

Is there exposure to radiation?
Steve-O

your going to be working at a nuke plant right are you friggin serious ? i mean if you work in a lumber yard you think you might get saw dust on you ? so if your working at a nuke plant what do you think your chances are for being exposed to various levels of radiation anyhow yes there are lots of safegaurds in place that keep our levels as low as possible. try doing some research ok ?

[JustinHEMI05]

try doing some research ok ?

Isn't that what he is trying to do by coming here? How is he supposed to know as a total outsider what to expect?

Justin

[Already Gone]

The training you take will help you to understand all these things.

A commercial nuclear power plant is the safest place you will EVER work.

[justatech]

Steve-O,

I remember my first time in a plant - I had lots of questions and I was worried too.

What are their expectations, what will I be doing, can I do this, what if I can't, will radiation hurt me, can I still have kids.................  yeah it all runs through your head.

The questions are normal - I remember a couple of years ago - an employee who worked outside the "Radiation Area" was transferred to that area and was really nervous - I knew something was up by the way they were pacing outside - finally asked - they had rushed through the refresher training received and couldn't remember anything............so we discussed it all in logical terms and they were fine after that.

Also - grow a tough skin, we are kind of an outspoken bunch.....................  Viking Fan - I'd rather he asked questions and researched verses just coming to work sitting around than not asking anything till he's a Senior....lighten up Dude.

Steve-O   go to the Study Forum on here and review some of the materials - if you have any questions - even you think they are silly - doesn't matter - send me a email and I'll write you back. 

[kp88]

The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) has a wealth of information available for those who work with and around nuclear materials.

Go to the nrc.gov radiation protection page.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

I'm gettig ready to do the training for a Jr. HP but want to do due diligence to make sure the work is safe. I know there is a range of duties involved, but what might be some examples of what the work would consist of? Is there exposure to radiation? What are the safeguards? Any reading material anyone can refer me to to educate myself about the possible risks involved in the job? Thanks for the help!

Steve-O

   ...We don't know exactly what the chances are of
getting cancer from a low-level radiation dose, primarily
because the few effects that may occur cannot be
distinguished from normally occurring cancers.
   We can make estimates based on extrapolation
from extensive knowledge from scientific research on
high dose effects.
   The estimates of radiation effects at
high doses are better known than are those of most
chemical carcinogens.
   From currently available data, the NRC has
adopted a risk value for an occupational dose of 1 rem
(0.01 Sv) Total Effective Dose Equivalent (TEDE) of
4 in 10,000 of developing a fatal cancer, or approximately
1 chance in 2,500 of fatal cancer per rem of
TEDE received.
   The uncertainty associated with this
risk estimate does not rule out the possibility of higher
risk, or the possibility that the risk may even be zero at
low occupational doses and dose rates...

[grantime]

Go ahead and ask your questions and make sure that you research the answers.  Cause any question that you have now will get asked to you again by the next new person that comes in.  Don't worry all of us have asked those questions at least once.  When my first child was on the way I asked the Dr to reassure me that my exposure was not going to hurt the new baby.  I knew the answer but needed to ask it anyway.  In some ways, answering those questions from the people that are worried may be HP's most important function.  If we can calm the (unreasonable) fears of our workers then when we do tell them that something is dangerous they may listen.  I had to talk to labor several years ago that had gotten contaminated working on a pump.  HP at exit made a really big deal about it and then at body counter the technician got excited because there was slight uptake(He-50 was 3 mrem)  When I talked to him he was nearly in tears.  He was sure that he was going to die but was more worried that if he went home to tell his family goodbye that they would die too.  Easy to laugh but really not funny.  Poor guy was genuinely terrified.

[RAD-GHOST]

Dealing with rhetorical responses is a BIG part of the J-O-B!

Just one question, "What did Jr. HP mean to you, before you signed up for the training class"?

Something must have sparked your interests?

Here's an answer to one of your questions, "What are the Safeguards".......

Trained & Experienced Health Physics Technicians!   


Over Glorified, but Simplified......RG

[UncaBuffalo]

I'm gettig ready to do the training for a Jr. HP but want to do due diligence to make sure the work is safe. I know there is a range of duties involved, but what might be some examples of what the work would consist of? Is there exposure to radiation? What are the safeguards? Any reading material anyone can refer me to to educate myself about the possible risks involved in the job? Thanks for the help!

Steve-O

   ...We don’t know exactly what the chances are of
getting cancer from a low-level radiation dose, primarily
because the few effects that may occur cannot be
distinguished from normally occurring cancers.
   We can make estimates based on extrapolation
from extensive knowledge from scientific research on
high dose effects.
   The estimates of radiation effects at
high doses are better known than are those of most
chemical carcinogens.
   From currently available data, the NRC has
adopted a risk value for an occupational dose of 1 rem
(0.01 Sv) Total Effective Dose Equivalent (TEDE) of
4 in 10,000 of developing a fatal cancer, or approximately
1 chance in 2,500 of fatal cancer per rem of
TEDE received.
   The uncertainty associated with this
risk estimate does not rule out the possibility of higher
risk, or the possibility that the risk may even be zero at
low occupational doses and dose rates...

Good answer, wlrun3.

A commercial nuclear power plant is the safest place you will EVER work.

This is very true.  Nuclear workers do have the increased risk of cancer that wlrun3 pointed out.  However, (as BeerCourt alludes to) every other part of the safety program in commercial power plants is so far to the conservative side that the net total risk to a commercial nuclear worker is much lower than most industries.

[RDTroja]

The training you take will help you to understand all these things.

A commercial nuclear power plant is the safest place you will EVER work.

Commercial nuclear power plants take safety to an almost ridiculous extreme because they have to. Just imagine having to explain the newspaper headline "Worker dies at Nuclear Plant." Not an easy thing to do even if the real story is someone that had a heart attack in the cafeteria. At Crystal River in Florida there is one nuclear plant and several fossil plants (coal) two of which were under construction while I was there in 1981. A man working on the cooling tower of one of the coal plants being built fell into the tower and died. When word got out to the local press that someone had died at Crystal River, they flocked to the nuclear plant gate and demanded the story. Naturally, the guard had no idea what they were talking about and told the reporters so. They called him a liar and accused him of covering up a story, so he made a couple of phone calls and found out the real story. When he told the reporters that the man had died on the construction site, they all turned around and went home... no story here. Very sad, but the reality of the industry.

As far as the radiation exposure, the information the others have given is very reliable. The fact of the matter is the doses received are so low that we can't distinguish the 'damage' done from natural sources. No one knows what radiation at such low levels does. Theories range from what wilrun3 posted to 'no damage' to 'slight health increase' although this is officially not the official stance that the industry is officially willing to take (for obvious reasons.) The bottom line on exposure is that everbody gets some, no matter where you work or live. Some places like the Republic of Georgia, where people have much longer lifespans than normal (a yogurt company used to do commercials about that) have MUCH higher background (natural) radiation levels than most of the world... seems to be OK with the local populace. Disclaimer: They are a very agrarian society and have a better over-all diet than a lot of the world, too, so the radiation may not be the reason they live longer... but it is not killing them off, either. The argument 'but that is natural radiation' holds no water... radiation is radiation.

The important thing to remember is that as an HP, you are the one with the radiation detector and the first to know the conditions... just tell the workers that if they see you running they should follow.  

[Motown homey]

My two Cents:

   From currently available data, the NRC has
adopted a risk value for an occupational dose of 1 rem
(0.01 Sv) Total Effective Dose Equivalent (TEDE) of
4 in 10,000 of developing a fatal cancer, or approximately
1 chance in 2,500 of fatal cancer per rem of
TEDE received.

First a correction, the NRC adopted the 4 instances of cancer per 10,000 population from BEIR IV and V.  They do not say the cancer will be fatal.

You have to compare the 4 additional instances of cancer in a population of 10,000 (increase due to dose of 1 rem per in) with the 2500 instances of cancer in a population of 10,000 that occur due to all causes.  So, if you were to give 10,000 people a dose of 1 rem each you could expect to see 2504 cases of cancer over the life of the population. 

Trying to determine which of the 2504 people got cancer due to the radiation exposure is statistically impossible because 4 out of 2504 is statistically insignificant.

Other points to note:  Not all cancers will be fatal - most people will survive.  And just because it is statistically insignificant, it is still personally devastating - no one is trying to whitewash the effects.

[Khak-Hater]

First of all, great Marathon Man reference.  I can almost hear the Nazi dentist's drill as I type.

I'm not going to get into risk models and linear no-threshold discussions, but radiation exposure is part of your everyday life.  You've been exposed to external penetrating radiation and internal radioactive contaminants your whole life.  It's part of nature.  Your front yard has measurable quantities of radioactive Uranium, Radium, and Thorium in it and your food has radioactive Potassium.  It's all natural.  God put it there.  We've all been exposed to it since the beginning of time, and very few people are concerned enough about exposure to it, to actually learn about it and make reasonable lifestyle changes to reduce their exposure to it.  I can confidently say that most nuclear workers, including HPs [although some might argue whether HPs actually work], receive less radiation dose in a year from their job, than they do from the natural stuff that God put all around us.

Now, the nice thing about working in the nuclear business is that the NRC [a very thorough and intrusive regulator], requires us to keep our radiation doses ALARA [As Low As Reasonably Achievable].  No one requires, or even considers keeping our natural radiation doses ALARA.  As such, it's a big deal to us whether you receive that extra mrem, because it hurts our ALARA numbers.  In comparison, no one cares if you hang out in your concrete slab basement for several hours when you could be in a lower dose area.  In short, since your doses are closely monitored and tracked, you may actually receive less radiation working in the nuclear industry than you would working as a fertilizer truck driver [or you could receive substantially more, but at least you'll know about it and understand it].

Your question was about what you'd be doing as a junior HP.  The great thing about your job is that particular job is where the rubber meets the road in radiation protection.  You're the guy holding the radiation monitoring device and helping everyone else to keep their doses ALARA.  If there's anything scary about radiation [other than ignorance due to media disinformation and green scare tactics], it's the fact that you can't see it or feel it.  A cave man can see a fire or a saber-toothed tiger and run away, but something invisible and undetectable that [in sufficient quantities] could kill you is a scary thing [for a cave man at least].  That's what HPs do.  We measure radiation, establish rules to protect the workers from it, and monitor vigorously to make sure that no one gets any unsafe or unnecessary exposure.  That's better than you get at home. 

If we, as a society, were really concerned about a mrem increasing our chances of developing cancer, we'd all buy our children's caregivers radiation monitors and train them as HPs so that they could keep our kid's radiation doses ALARA.  I don't see a lot of that going on.  So, we as a society, probably aren't that concerned about a few extra mrem.

Good luck in your new career,

MGM

[thenuttyneutron]

I worry more about the stress on my body from rolling my schedule every few days because of the shift work.  Rolling off of nights is actually painful!

[Ric_Flitton]

Generally speaking you will be provided a lot of training and assigned to work with a senior tech.  Open your eyes and ears and always listen to the good senior techs advice.  When in doubt, ASK!!!

[Steve-O]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I also took the time to educate myself by reading the source doc from the NRC that several people were referring to and have satisfied myself as to the safety of the job. Thanks again for your advice and words of encouragement. Hope to see some of you soon.

Steve-O

[wlrun3@aol.com]

 

   ..."First a correction, the NRC adopted the 4 instances of cancer per 10,000 population from BEIR IV and V.  They do not say the cancer will be fatal."

   ...thankyou for your response...
   
   ...the information i provided, which i have reverified, is from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Regulatory Guide 8.29, Rev. 1, 1996, Appendix 8.29-7, Question 8..."or approximately 1 chance in 2,500 of fatal cancer per rem of TEDE received."

   ...this information is consistent with BEIR VII: Health Risks from Exposure to Low Levels of Ionizing Radiation, Report in Brief, June 2005, The National Academies Press, nap.edu...

[alphadude]

a whole lot safer than working for chemical companies.

[SloGlo]

eye yam thinking (wit out dune the research) dat working as hp is safer dan bean a bus driver, emt, cop, fireman, electrician, iron worker, carpenter, boiler maker, pipe fitter, postal worker, truck driver, college professor, astronaut, taxi cab driver, oar investment banker. 
dare are risks wit every occupation.  can yinz roll da dice?  may bee a croupier wood be a better bet.... unless ya consider all da things that can go wrong in a gambling career.

[SloGlo]

a person is smart, people are stupid,....

'n peepul hooo git hit wit a stick, smart.....

[Marlin]

a person is smart, people are stupid,....

From MIB?

[Smart People]

a person is smart, people are stupid,....

Hey!!!