So I just got my orders.

[ncash.navy]

I would like to say that I have been reading the forums here for a long time, prior to joining the navy, during a-school and powerschool, and still while in prototype. All of the information I have found here has been very helpful, if not amusing at times. I would like to thanks everyone for their input and the site in general.

Now to my problem.

I just received my orders... finally! They are to the last place on my list, imagine that, Norfolk, VA. XXXXXXX  Modified to remove ship specific information XXXXXXX Does this mean I will never go out to sea? I can't figure out if this is good or bad for me. I plan on pursuing a career in the nuclear industry after leaving the navy. I have always planned on doing 6 and out. Will I ever actually get to be the reactor operator I trained to become while in the shipyard? How will I do my quals? Anyone that has been through an overhaul, what do the nukes do? When I get out, will the nuclear industry frown at me for never having been to sea? Any information would be hugely appreciated, as I am trying to decide if I should find someone to trade orders with or not.

-Ncash

[PapaBear765]

Firstly, stop advertising your ship's schedule.  That's OPSEC: operational security.

Without being a commercial nuke, I think I can confidently say that the industry won't care that you did six in the navy on a shutdown reactor, so don't worry about that.

Going out to sea only sucks if you're married w/a family, or something else back on land that you don't want to be without.  Otherwise going to sea has it's incentives, port calls namely.

If it's anything you shouldn't be worried about, it's how your quals will work at your ship during while in the shipyard.  Every command does it differently because the requirements on provisional quals is vague to an absurd degree.

Don't fret the shipyard.  There's a lot of infrequent, special things that you'll do with the plant.  Can be interesting.  You'll know more about the plant than those who have never been through a shipyard period, imho.

[Gamecock]

I did the RCOH on Ike, as an o-ganger.  It was an interesting assignment, and life was not horrible.  I enjoyed my time onboard.  There are some difficult periods, but its not really until the end of the overhaul that things really get rough.....I transferred just prior to the start of steam plant testing, so I missed the end.

I know the guy who will be your Reactor Officer during the overhaul......I can honestly say he is without a doubt one of the best guys I've ever worked for. 

[ncash.navy]

Did not realize posting that was something I should not talk about, I found the information freely on the internet, so I didn't expect that kind of reaction .

So will I get to be the RO that I trained to be, what will I be doing? Will I just be painting, or will I actually get to stand watches as RO?

-ncash

Good to know my Reactor Officer is a good guy =)

[Gamecock]

Maybe not the RO you always wanted to be...but I'd bet you'll make one mighty fine  Log Recorder and future SRO.

BTW...the guy I'm talking about is not the current Reactor Officer.  He will be his relief.

[PapaBear765]

Did not realize posting that was something I should not talk about, I found the information freely on the internet, so I didn't expect that kind of reaction .

So will I get to be the RO that I trained to be, what will I be doing? Will I just be painting, or will I actually get to stand watches as RO?

-ncash

Good to know my Reactor Officer is a good guy =)

Well, if you want to know about OPSEC try Googling it: http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/a021202b.html

George Washington:

Even minutiae should have a place in our collection, for things of a seemingly trifling nature, when enjoined with others of a more serious cast, may lead to valuable conclusion.

It doesn't matter if you're told we use X for our reactor's fuel and then find it on the internet or in an encyclopedia.  If you verify it by saying "yes, we use X", then you've just given whomever a fact.  Facts are what national security doesn't want "them" to have.

[Fermi2]

More or less a good guideline should be Confirm Nothing unless it was already given from an official Navy website.

Mike

[93-383]

When I did a year long drydock avail on the same ship, Reactor department suspended quals. The only qualifications that continued where shutdown watches, and amended qual card requirements where created for things like SRMO, SMO, SRO, ect. You will start to requal near the end of the avail when the testing phase starts. Since a re-fuel takes so long there won't be too many people in the Department who have actually operated the plant before so if you prove your level of knowledge they may let you qualify higher level steaming watches than your counterparts. That being said the first people to get qualified RO will be the guys that are on their second sea tour that have operated before (on a real plant not the prototypes).

What will the nukes do?
Clean, clean, clean, clean, and then clean some more. Occasionally some people will get to do maintenance however almost everything will be inactive maintenance so there isn't much to do. The mechanics and electricians will be busy for the first couple months maybe even the first year fixing all the items in the CSMP. Once you get later into the avail if your not cleaning then you will be studying.

[ncash.navy]

I'm still at a loss for why what I said was wrong.

I have in no way contacted, or been contacted by my command, nor have I been told by anyone related to the navy what my boat is or will be doing. So I am in no way confirming what the ship will or will not be doing, rather I am repeating something that has been in multiple news stories, that one can find by a simple google search of the internet.

Had I already been told by my new command what I would be doing, and if this information was not readily available, I would understand the need to censor what I say on this or any other site, but that is not the case here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to topic. Well I have been cussing and discussing this with many people, and have decided to not try and switch my orders. They are sending a large chunk of my graduating class to my boat, although I am the only ET. The four of us were split up and all sent to different boats. I have yet to find a person at prototype that has a good thing to say about the yards =/ Although, when I think about it, its usually hard to find a person to say a good thing about the navy at prototype .

I am becoming more and more excited as graduation day grows near, 2 more weeks woot. I really feel like the navy has in some ways robbed me of the reasons that I joined the navy, going out to sea, visiting ports, while at the same time running the Rx. I hope that I will be able to get enough experience as SRO to be able to be competitive in the civilian nuclear industry when I get out. All my peers will be coming from ships that have been steaming across the ocean, while my resume will say that I have been in the yards. Seems like you guys would prefer someone with more operational experience.. ?

I appreciate all the comments, and would love more!

-Ncash

[JustinHEMI05]

Things may have changed, and I am sure they did, but 10 years ago when I was graduating ptype (ELT school) I didn't like the orders I got. Finding the same thing you did (people not knowing/caring), I went straight to the horses mouth and called the detailer. Fortunately, at that time, my detailer was cool as heck and he simply told me to find another student and see if they wanted to switch. I did, I called him back, and it was done. New orders in hand. Maybe give that a try.

Justin

[Khak-Hater]

Ncash,

I know how you feel.  It's like joining the Army to go fight terrorists in Afghanistan and having them send you to Kansas for your whole enlistment instead.  Well the Navy needs you where they sent you or they wouldn't have sent you there.  You're doing your duty, it's just not what you imagined it would be.  Get used to it.  You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.

After the Enterprise circumnavigated the globe in 89, we pulled into Norfolk for a four year overhaul and refuelling at NNS&DDCo.  We had a whole bunch of nubs waiting for us when we got there [in RL Div we doubled our manning for the overhaul].  After we left San Francisco for the cruise, they held the new nubs in Norfolk for our arrival.  Almost everyone of those nubs did their entire enlistment without ever going to sea [not even for a day].  They proudly refer to the ship being towed across the James River as their "Sea Tour" and they all went on to pursue any career they wanted (e.g., commercial nuclear power operators, Nuclear Engineers, DOE contractors, PGDP supervisors, a petroleum engineer, a cop, an Australian Defense Department consultant, a lawyer, a medical radiation physicist, a teacher, whatever).  When you get out, no one will care if you did any sea time or stood watch on a critical plant.  A few diggits transferred to seagoing commands after two years, which will probably be an option for you if you don't like it in the yard.  A few others reenlisted so they could go back out to sea with her, but most were happy to get out and never look back.

My experience is that you'll work twice as hard in the yard as you would at sea, but you get to go home at the end of the day [except for duty days - man, do I miss duty days].  One piece of advice is to go get your degree while your stuck in Norfolk for four years.  If you're going to be in Norfolk Naval you can get a B.S. in ME pretty easily from ODU.  If you're going to be at Newport News then you can get a B.S. in math with a minor in ME pretty easily from Christopher Newport.  They're both inexpensive state schools and the Navy has a great TA program.  Nothing is easier than taking ME classes in college after going through power school and prototype.  If they have you working days, then you can take night classes and swap duty days to make your classes.  If they put you on shift work, then you can take classes whenever you want and just plan on missing 25% of them [based on four-section shift work].  You need to clear it with your professors, but I found the staff at Chris Newport to be very supportive on the matter.  Then, when you get out, you'll be that much more marketable than the guys who spent four years at sea.  It may not be fair, but you volunteered to serve your country and this is the hand that they dealt you.  So make the most of it.

Good Luck,

MGM

[Smooth Operator]

If your concern is that your 4 years won't help you get a commericial job, you are worrying for naught. Sitting in the box steaming won't help you any more, either. If you survive 6 years as a nuke and maintain a clean record, you have met the min req to be competitive for any NLO job out there or I and C if you desire.

Anyway, RO on a ship does not directly translate to RO in a commericial nuke. You can't get a commercial RO job straight out of the Navy. You have to be an NLO first. Being a steaming ET/RO does not prepare you to be a commercial NLO, anyways.

What I suggest to combat your perceived lack of operational experience is to get involved with as much of the shipyard availability as you can, projects, complex maint, whatever. Document everything you do. There is probably something unique to learn in the shipyard that you would not learn steaming.

Work on your degree and take full advantage of not being deployed.

[ncash.navy]

So like a lot of nukes, I went to college, partied too much, and quit. Had some crappy jobs, before deciding I wanted to do something with my life, which is what lead me here. I currently have about 72 hours at UT-Austin. While I am in the yards should I pursue a degree, or just take the credits I currently have + the ones the navy has given me, and get one of those "technical degrees" I hear so much about? I know there is a lot on this site about that, but I could either have my degree with no work, and start working on another, or get a degree with my hours from UT and not worry about those I received from the navy.

Keep the comments coming.

PS: I'm glad to see there is some positive input on the situation, and very glad to hear that it will not impede my commercial plans. =)

[JustinHEMI05]

If your concern is that your 4 years won't help you get a commericial job, you are worrying for naught. Sitting in the box steaming won't help you any more, either. If you survive 6 years as a nuke and maintain a clean record, you have met the min req to be competitive for any NLO job out there or I and C if you desire.

Anyway, RO on a ship does not directly translate to RO in a commericial nuke. You can't get a commercial RO job straight out of the Navy. You have to be an NLO first. Being a steaming ET/RO does not prepare you to be a commercial NLO, anyways.

What I suggest to combat your perceived lack of operational experience is to get involved with as much of the shipyard availability as you can, projects, complex maint, whatever. Document everything you do. There is probably something unique to learn in the shipyard that you would not learn steaming.

Work on your degree and take full advantage of not being deployed.

It should be noted that the "evil empire" will hire 6 and out ROs into an SRO class under the "2 years as RO or EWS" clause, as good or as bad as that may be. YMMV 

Justin

[Khak-Hater]

Justin,

Who's the "evil empire"?

Ncash,

There's nothing wrong with a mail order Engineering Technology degree, but lots of Navy Nukes are going to have those, so it won't make you that much more marketable than the other guys.  Your unique situation gives you the opportunity to go get an actual engineering degree, which will give you a lot more options once you get to your plant.  All other things being equal, you'll have a leg up on your other nuke coworkers, since you'll be a prime candidate for engineering supervisor or management positions [if you ever want to get off shift work].  It just opens a lot of doors that will be closed to most other nuke enlisted operations types.  I'd take advantage of the gift you've been given and shoot for the engineering degree, if you fall short (e.g., some Navy screw job that derails your plans), then you can always get an engineering tech degree as a fall back plan. 

Your previous college experience is an enormous boost, since you've probably taken most of the junior chipmunk elective classes (e.g., English, history, etc.), so you can dive right into the good stuff [core math and engineering].  Don't worry about your previous grades.  Initially sign up for a few classes as a transient student [no admission required].  If you do a quarter of the work that you did in Power School, then you'll get good grades.  After a semester or two of good grades as a transient [demonstrated successful performance], apply for admission and you'll be a ringer.  There's nothing like taking a thermo class, when to most of the students in the room a condenser is a diagram on a page, but to you it's a real thing that you've laid your hands on.

Good Luck,

MGM

[ncash.navy]

We will be in Newport News, so is my only option a major in Math? I have never been that great at math, I mean I understand all of the math we did in power school and a-school, particularly the reactor theory stuff, but I would not have ever seen myself going for a mathematics degree. How far is Newport News from ODU? Would it be a better choice for me to get the technical degree, and then go to Christopher Newport University for a BAS in business? This is looking better and better by the minute =)

And yes I have all of my basics out of the way. I have enough credits to have a minor in Biology. Spent a lot of time in college not knowing what I wanted to do, but found that Biology was the only class that actually kept my interest enough to keep going back to class, so I kept taking classes, even though it was not my major .

-Ncash

What is the reputation of these schools? I have never heard of them.

[Demps0880]

ODU is really not that far from Newport News.  I'm sure you will eventually be stationed in Norfolk eventually anyways.  The college is just south of the base.  You have so many on-line options now days as well.  You don't have to go through Thomas Edison or Excelsior.  There are many ways to get your degree without having to settle for something that you don't want.  However, I love math so I would say to get that degree anyways.   Hope you figure everything out.

[Khak-Hater]

A chain's only as strong as its weakest link.  You don't focus your training on the muscle that's strong, you train the muscle that's weak first.  If you're weak on math, there's one sure way to get stronger.

College reputations are a lot of sh$% that snobs shovel.  Unless a lot of rich/famous people go there, or they have a successful athletic program, whether you've heard of a school is primarily a regional thing.  I never heard of UT-Austin before this.  Very few employers care what school you went to as long as the degree is accredited. 

If you do happen to be the type that is concerned about school reputations, I had an E-6 working for me on the Enterprise who finished a MS in Chemistry from William and Mary while we were in Newport News.  You don't get much snottier than William and Mary, and it's only another ten or fifteen minutes farther than Christopher Newport.

As far as the math degree, I took it and my Navy training to UT [Knoxville, for you burnt orange types] when I got out and finished an M.S. in NE in eleven months.  During my graduate school admission interview with the UT NE Department head, I asked him if he was concerned that my undergrad degree wasn't in engineering.  He responded that the biggest problem that NE grad students had was with the associated math, and that my B.S. in math coupled with my Navy training would probably give me a leg up.  He was correct.  However, you are also probably correct, if you don't plan on doing a graduate degree in engineering, then the engineering undergrad degree may be the best route. 

Keep in mind though, the UT MS in NE is now offered completely on line.  So, given that you have most of your prereqs out of the way, you could complete your BS in two or three years and potentially complete a MS in NE prior to getting out.  Personally, I'd consider it to be way cool to be an E-5 or E-6 Nuke blue shirt with a MS in NE. 

Also, Cristopher Newport and ODU classes openly transfer back and forth.  We had a lot of ODU students who took ME classes at Christopher Newport to avoid the commute.  So, you might want to take as many as you can there, and then transfer over to ODU to finish the engineering degree.

Look at all of the options you have available.  When life gives you lemons, make lemonade. 

Good luck,

MGM

[ncash.navy]

Lol never heard of UT-Austin, let me spell that out, University of Texas (main campus) in austin. There are multiple UT's the ones in Texas, and the one in Tennessee. So you do seem to know which school I went to from the "burnt orange" types comment .

You got an M.S. in NE from UT... would that be a masters in nuclear engineering?

Do you guys use a lot of math in the commercial field? I find that in the navy once you have an understanding of the basic reactor theory stuff, the math just kind of plays itself out. The same equations over and over with different numbers plugged in. It tends to get to the point that you can figure most stuff out in your head. Now ask me a simple math question and I need a calculator .

I never took calculus in high school or in college. It has always been a fear of mine. What would a mechanical engineering minor do for me? That seems like it would be geared more for the MMs.

I will be out to sea for my first x months, before I get into the yards. How long ahead do I need to start planning this to get Tuition Assistance? How long in advance do I need to apply to these schools? I would like to start next fall, so I want to make sure I am lining up everything that I will need before hand.

-Ncash

[Gamecock]

Lol never heard of UT-Austin, let me spell that out, University of Texas (main campus) in austin. There are multiple UT's the ones in Texas, and the one in Tennessee. So you do seem to know which school I went to from the "burnt orange" types comment .

You got an M.S. in NE from UT... would that be a masters in nuclear engineering?

Do you guys use a lot of math in the commercial field? I find that in the navy once you have an understanding of the basic reactor theory stuff, the math just kind of plays itself out. The same equations over and over with different numbers plugged in. It tends to get to the point that you can figure most stuff out in your head. Now ask me a simple math question and I need a calculator .

I never took calculus in high school or in college. It has always been a fear of mine. What would a mechanical engineering minor do for me? That seems like it would be geared more for the MMs.

I will be out to sea for my first x months, before I get into the yards. How long ahead do I need to start planning this to get Tuition Assistance? How long in advance do I need to apply to these schools? I would like to start next fall, so I want to make sure I am lining up everything that I will need before hand.

-Ncash

You aren't going to get a real engineering degree without taking several calculus classes.  Not to mention that most engineering undergrad classes use calculus in some form or another.  I had to take four calculus classes to get my undergrad Mech E. degree.    I thought I had a great math background heading into Grad school......but I found that I was still lacking significantly.  Every class I've taken in Grad school has been very, very math intensive.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I'm still at a loss for why what I said was wrong.

I have in no way contacted, or been contacted by my command, nor have I been told by anyone related to the navy what my boat is or will be doing. So I am in no way confirming what the ship will or will not be doing, rather I am repeating something that has been in multiple news stories, that one can find by a simple google search of the internet.

Had I already been told by my new command what I would be doing, and if this information was not readily available, I would understand the need to censor what I say on this or any other site, but that is not the case here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to topic. Well I have been cussing and discussing this with many people, and have decided to not try and switch my orders. They are sending a large chunk of my graduating class to my boat, although I am the only ET. The four of us were split up and all sent to different boats. I have yet to find a person at prototype that has a good thing to say about the yards =/ Although, when I think about it, its usually hard to find a person to say a good thing about the navy at prototype .

I am becoming more and more excited as graduation day grows near, 2 more weeks woot. I really feel like the navy has in some ways robbed me of the reasons that I joined the navy, going out to sea, visiting ports, while at the same time running the Rx. I hope that I will be able to get enough experience as SRO to be able to be competitive in the civilian nuclear industry when I get out. All my peers will be coming from ships that have been steaming across the ocean, while my resume will say that I have been in the yards. Seems like you guys would prefer someone with more operational experience.. ?

I appreciate all the comments, and would love more!

-Ncash

Please trust me when i tell you that you will have other things going on and your priorities will straighten themselves out. You are going to need to focus on qualifying BNEQ first then work your way up to SRO. Put college on the back burner for now, the time for that was before the navy. After you qualify and provide useful services to your ship, I would focus on the schooling the navy will allow you to get (i.e. GO TO C SCHOOLS!), vice college. Yeah if you can fit it in, great, however, C schools would get more of that "experience" you are looking to get, and besides... you have a sexy GI bill waiting for you when you finish anyway...

[93-383]

Please trust me when i tell you that you will have other things going on and your priorities will straighten themselves out. You are going to need to focus on qualifying BNEQ first then work your way up to SRO. Put college on the back burner for now, the time for that was before the navy. After you qualify and provide useful services to your ship, I would focus on the schooling the navy will allow you to get (i.e. GO TO C SCHOOLS!), vice college. Yeah if you can fit it in, great, however, C schools would get more of that "experience" you are looking to get, and besides... you have a sexy GI bill waiting for you when you finish anyway...

For the most part I can't disagree more. Yes new personnel should focus on getting senior in rate qualified quickly since I think its still a pre-req for getting TA. However if someone is doing a 6-and out the last think they should be going after is C-schools. 1 they are taking a spot to gain valuable knowledge away from someone who is going to stay in. And second it has been stated by multiple people on this board that C-schools mean jack when it comes to getting into the commercial ops community.

[Cycoticpenguin]

For the most part I can't disagree more. Yes new personnel should focus on getting senior in rate qualified quickly since I think its still a pre-req for getting TA. However if someone is doing a 6-and out the last think they should be going after is C-schools. 1 they are taking a spot to gain valuable knowledge away from someone who is going to stay in. And second it has been stated by multiple people on this board that C-schools mean jack when it comes to getting into the commercial ops community.

I in no way shape or form want him to not pursue any further education. Im merely trying to relay that his priorities will be realligned and set straight. He's focusing on getting college done right now, and im being honest when I say that wont happen and he needs to put that on the back burner.  C schools may mean jack, but its a chance for him to learn his job and further himself. and besides, who said I specifically was speaking of ET C schools? QA schools are good things to get done from my understanding...

EDIT : what if he reenlists?