BWR vs PWR

[illini81]

Hi, I've qualified EOOW on two PWR plants but was looking to move closer to family and job would be at a BWR type plant.  Has anybody transitioned from PWR to BWR and how was the change?  Thanks.

[vikingfan]

you might try sending a pm to broadzilla. i know he has been licensed at both plants.

[M1Ark]

Look, lets be clear, you are looking to transition from a navy plant to a BWR.  As long as you start out as an nlo you'll be fine, anything else would be challenging.  As far as commercial PWR vs. BWR... they both have their strengths and challenges and at the end of the day they both do their jobs equally well.  As far as your EOOW quals, as stated to me from numerous ex-JOs I've trained, your quals amounts to a hill of beans.  You qualify for an SRO-instant position but it'll be a ride. 

[Fermi2]

Your EOOW Quals might get you a position on my group stapling my turnover sheets together.
I made the transition twice. Navy PWR to Commercial BWR-4. Then BWR 4 to Westinghouse 4 Loop PWR.
M1Ark did the same thing and I agree with his assessment.

Mike

[HydroDave63]

Hi, I've qualified EOOW on two PWR plants

were those "mobile nuclear facilities"?   http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,12263.msg67626.html#msg67626 2nd paragraph


what was the boration at your PWRs... 

[JustinHEMI05]

I am an ex Navy enlisted (MM1/ELT) qualified EOOW who is in instant SRO training at a BWR.

I have no right to prejudge your thoughts, but I am gonna. Sue me. I am guessing you would be looking for instant SRO. I am guessing we won't be able to talk you into the preferred path of NLO-RO-SRO like Broadzilla and m1ark stated. I am guessing you probably believe or have heard (unrealistically) that NLO is beneath your EOOW quals. If I am wrong, I apologize. For all I know, you could be talking about an NLO job. But based on experience here at nukeworker, I make my judgment.

That said, I have to add to what Broadzilla and m1ark said. Instant SRO is an uphill battle, at best. I am thankfully doing well in training and expect to obtain my license this December. But I will tell you, until very recently (a year into training), I have always felt like I was one step behind the upgrades and NLO-RO folks... and I was. I always felt like I was playing catch up. Only a year later, after many many many hours of studying and simulator time, do I actually feel like I have a clue. But performing in the simulator and getting the license is only half the battle. Will I get a license and be able to protect the health and safety of the public? Sure. Will I actually be a good supervisor? Not for a long time after I get on shift. I have not the first clue of how to actually be an SRO on the day to day basis. The training doesn't prepare you for that, only experience does. And by being an instant SRO, you obviously have no experience. So you have yet another uphill battle to fight. That of proving to the people you are supervising that you have a clue about how to actually be their supervisor. That is probably the harder battle, but you have to get the license first. Instants have a high failure rate out there and guess which group fails the most of the instants? In my limited experience (6 months at a PWR and 1.5 years at a BWR), its Navy EOOWs that think their quals amount to more than be qualified to staple Broadzilla's turn over sheets.  We passed EOOW level week one in the simulator.

So, if you do go for instant SRO, my advice is to buckle down, be humble and not come out assuming you are guaranteed a license. Again, you didn't really portray that attitude yet with your first post. But just in case you have the "EOOW = SRO" thought, I wanted to head it off as an ENLISTED EOOW to SRO.

Goodluck!

Justin

[thenuttyneutron]

There were 10 DSROs in my License class at the start.  There was a 100% failure rate on DSRO hires from the Navy (total of four).  The only DSROs to pass were two former NLOs, two engineers and two people from the training department going for their License.  The two trainers had degrees and were from the Navy.   They also spent time in the plant before starting the class for almost 2 years and they went through the NLO training program.  The engineers had several years of experience before going to class.

[Smooth Operator]

I feel very beneath an EOOW making 6 figures as an NLO and not even being top rate yet. 

You should go NLO 1st, because you get to have a life for a few years before you go up for licensing. Once you become a supervisor, and get that beeper, and the ERO duty....it may be like you never left the Navy. This is just my 2 cents observing the supervisors around me.

I have worked commercially in a PWR and a BWR at the craft level.

I have no feel for the control room from either plant, they both look about the same to me.

From just getting around and stuff, everything in a BWR more or less is in an RCA with various levels of Rad Area, HRA, L-HRA, and may or may not be contaminated to the point you need PCs...just know that once you are in a BWR plant, the logistics of getting around or moving equipment are a little more thought provoking. IMHO, more pre-planning is req in the day to day logistics of BWR operations because of the HP stuff.

Also, EOOW pretty much means jack poop, its something the NRC/ACAD/INPO/HR has decided is a check in the box for instant pre-reqs.

There is just sooooo much to learn on the floor, nuances that cannot be found in a procedure, communications/trust that you will never have with your operators if you never had to do what they did at some point.

[Fermi2]

What struck me a lot was how Operator Radcon at a PWR seemed so animated compared to a BWR. Operators at BWRs dealt with being in the RCA all the time and everything even the lube oil is potentially contaminated. They seem to do better at Radcon mostly because it's a daily part of their existence.

Justin, I'm glad to hear you're doing well!

Nutty Neutron, Dude, Congrats on that lIcense. You're gonna do great with it, mostly because you have such a great attitude man. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I've had rotator cuff issues.

Jason K: What craft are you?

Mike

[HydroDave63]

What struck me a lot was how Operator Radcon at a PWR seemed so animated compared to a BWR. Operators at BWRs dealt with being in the RCA all the time and everything even the lube oil is potentially contaminated. They seem to do better at Radcon mostly because it's a daily part of their existence.

Justin, I'm glad to hear you're doing well!

Nutty Neutron, Dude, Congrats on that lIcense. You're gonna do great with it, mostly because you have such a great attitude man. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I've had rotator cuff issues.

Jason K: What craft are you?

Mike

What, no follow-up questions for me?!? hrrmph!

[flamatrix99]

I was an MM1/SS EWS in the Navy, got out and worked in non nuke industry for 6 -7 years.

On a whim I started looking online one night and found that a utility was hiring and I got the job. I was an NLO at a PWR. It was pretty cool. They (management) pissed us off one day and I applied for a Instant SRO position at a BWR. I ended up getting that job too. The plant did nothing to prepare us for class during out 6 month waiting period. We sat and answered CRs and did admin work. We asked to go to NLO building classes and we were told no. Out of 7 instants that were off the street in my class, I was the last one. I made it to the Audit exam and was dropped.  Now I am a non-licensed STA with an SRO cert. Not a bad gig at all. Not sure if I really wanna go back to class but thier plan is for me to be an STA for a cycle, get some experience in the Control Room and go back to class again.

Instant SRO at a BWR is a bitch.. I wish I would have stayed at a PWR as I think it is alot easier to learn. They again until I came here it is all I ever knew. As others said in HLO class I always felt like I was behind and during systems I felt like I was drinking from a firehose. I also struggled in the simulator but that was because I didn't have a strong systems background. I have seen guys that were NLOs for only a year and go to class and cruise but they had that experience before going to class.

[M1Ark]

Instant SRO at a BWR is a bitch.. I wish I would have stayed at a PWR as I think it is alot easier to learn.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.  I agree with your assessment and I will refer to this post the next time an ill informed nukeworker flames boilers over how easy they are without actually going down the path you have taken.  I actually knew two of the seven instants you mentioned started in your class. They are good people and merely a casualty of another training program geared for an nlo to ro to sro path.  Those types of programs make SRO-instants ill equipped to make it through without the necessary background.

[Fermi2]

It really is tough going from a PWR to a BWR. On the other hand, I found my NRC Written was tougher on a PWR because there's so many damn EOPs.
Also Region 2 has so many different "guidelines" for exam questions it's not even funny.

[flamatrix99]

It really is tough going from a PWR to a BWR. On the other hand, I found my NRC Written was tougher on a PWR because there's so many damn EOPs.
Also Region 2 has so many different "guidelines" for exam questions it's not even funny.

I wish I would have known that.... LOL It has all worked out so far. The first time I walked into the simulator I was shocked by how many controls and indications there were on a BWR6 compared to a 3 loop Westinghouse PWR.

[nukeET1]

I wish I could change my screen name to "Ex-nukeet1" 
Background: In the Navy 10 years as Reactor Operator.
I got out a few years back and ended up applying for several jobs
AO/EO/NLO (depending on the company)
Instrumentations and Controls (I+C)
Electrical maintenance supervisor
Instant SRO.
I was offered jobs at each.  I chose Instant SRO at a BWR.
Here is what I know:
1.  The 6 months on site prior to the program is what you make of it.  You can sit there and dink around on the internet, staple broadzillas turnover sheets or whatever else you want to waste time with
OR
     You can do tours with the NLOs, take the rounds, study the lesson plans, talk with the CROs, talk with the SROs, help out when barrels need to be moved, hump some hoses around, help out with evolutions, and build a good hard working reputation.  It takes a long time to get a good hard working reputation but it will pay off in the end.   
     My introduction to the bargaining unit persons was in the break room,
the person showing me and another instant around said
"Everyone I would like you to meet XXXXX"
the response from one of the old scruffy looking guy "Great, more F***ing useless people"
I still laugh about this today and mess around with this RO, hard worker, great guy, but he made his point the first day... its an uphill battle (that can be won)

It is by far the hardest program/endeavour you will undertake.  I literally studied 3-4 hours a night and worked weekends studying, making cards, walking down systems, learning setpoints, alarm responses, procedures, tech specs, permits, etc. etc. for 2 years. Picture power school, prototype, at sea experience and multiply it by 50.  Your Navy experience gets you in the door and that is about it.
 
No one cares where you got your 4 year degree from, RPI, Thomas Edison, Harvard, it really does not matter,  What they do care about is do you have the ability to make conservative decisions, are you going to panic when alarms come in, and are you focus on overall plant response and not focus on the shiny object right in front of you?  (ooooooh shineyyyyy)

2. BWR V. PWR.   The rods go in the wrong way and we boil in the core. There is no such thing as SUR. Once you learn to accept it.... life becomes easy.


How to instantly become one of the failing statistics you hear about:
1.  Think you "deserve" anything.
2.   Believe training is going to teach you everything you need to know.
      "You need to know everything about everything" anonymous instructor, when asked what a licensed operator needed to know for an exam.
      Know the systems, draw them, design basis, accident analysis, alarms, setpoints, system interaction, etc etc etc.
3.  Believe you are better then the operators who work for you.   (backwards thinking)  The operators who have worked there for many years know the plant, if they have a concern, you better have a concern because more times then not, they are right. (almost like when an RO told and EOOW, Sir, I really do not think you want to do that.... oh nooooo..... Captain to EOOW, why did you do that?, ummmmmm, Captain to RO, why didn't you say anything.. I did sir.... Captain to EOOW, you are a dumbass, Captain walks out)

I hope this gives you some insight on Instant SRO challenges. I have had my SRO license for 3 years.

[Fermi2]

This is an incredibly informative post and should be read by every person going from the T Ball Leagues to the Majors.

Mike

[Jr8black3]

Not even a choice PWR's hands down, BWR's are a nitemare... Every bad experience ............I ever had in this business was in a BWR....

[JustinHEMI05]

Well said NukeET1. As an instant, that 6 months was very important to me. I took the advice of Broadzilla and I was out in scrubs with the NLOs (and the occasional chem tech/HP) every day. Doing rounds, humping hoses, flushing toilets (a funny story for later), hanging clearances, etc etc etc. Although not quite the same as being an NLO for a few years, I feel that without that time spent with them, I wouldn't be doing as well as I am today. Besides that, I have built a pretty good rapport with them which will be a great benefit when I finally get on shift.

Justin

[BuddyThePug]

I took the advice of Broadzilla and I was out in scrubs with the NLOs

Mike told you that you were qualified to be a janitor?

[JustinHEMI05]

Mike told you that you were qualified to be a janitor?

LMAO no, but then again, I never asked or thought if my EOOW quals were equal to SRO.