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Offline Broadzilla

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #25 on: Dec 16, 2009, 08:07 »
The two lines left near Avon Lake were designed to carry that load. Poor maintenance on the tress caused the event. A "cascading " failure is a failure that in some time in the future causes another failure, which in some later time causes another failure. It develops over time. The TMI event is a cascading failure.

The 2003 event happened fast. You'll hear some load dispatchers say if so and so had been on the ball it wouldn't have happened. Fact is once it started bit happen so fast no one could havge stopped it.

Offline Laundry Man

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #26 on: Dec 17, 2009, 08:56 »
Nice stuff everyone, but to get back on subject:

TRENTON, N.J. — A proposal to require the owners of a New Jersey nuclear power plant to install water cooling towers that would help revive the waterway at the site has been put on hold.

The Senate Environment Committee delayed a decision on the bill after hearing more than three hours of testimony Monday. It will be considered again in February.

Sen. Bob Smith, the committee chairman, said heated water from the Oyster Creek power plant and chemical runoff are threatening the bay. The power plant circulates bay water through its cooling system before returning it to the bay at a warmer temperature. Fish-kills and algae blooms occur in heated waters.

Exelon Corp., which owns the power plant on Barnegat Bay, said the towers would cost hundreds of millions to build, making the plant uneconomical. Cost estimates on the towers ranged from a low of $50 million to a high of $800 million.
LM

Offline roadhp

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #27 on: Dec 17, 2009, 02:18 »
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't a cooling tower require a whole bunch of basically potable water to run?  I heard that Brunswick discontinued their cooling tower project because the salt water running through the cooling tower would coat the entire area with salt, and the amount of fresh water needed to run it was too great.  Are there any other coastal nukes with cooling towers?  I am not a fan of OC, but most of the fish kills there come from fish that would not even be there if it weren't for the plant creating a much warmer environment in the first place.  I have not heard of an algae bloom up there, but I guess it is possible.
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Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #28 on: Dec 18, 2009, 06:24 »
The power plant circulates bay water through its cooling system before returning it to the bay at a warmer temperature.

Even temperature is covered in their NPDES permit. As long as they are meeting all the conditions of their NPDES, I doubt this will go anywhere but stalled in court. Some plants have gone the route of settling out of court and paying for mitigation programs run at high overhead by the same greenies that initiated the litigation. Another greenie shakedown...

Offline Laundry Man

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #29 on: Dec 18, 2009, 08:20 »
Oysters license contains such language that restricts the time of year that the plant can be shut down to minimize the stress on the fish in the canal.  If I can remember correctly, the time frame for not shutting down is November to April.  Of course if the plant trips or has to be brought down for maintenance, then the canal cools down and fish stress and some meet their maker.  During my time there, Exelon/Oyster did everything they could to avoid shutting down during this time frame.
LM

Offline ExNuke

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #30 on: Aug 15, 2010, 04:12 »
Excellent thread folks!

Just my 2 cents here...

Oyster Creek is probably THE worst and dirtiest plant I worked in. The management running the asylum were idiots and it's amazing they never had an accident. I was an inspector there back in the mid 80's and I swore I would NEVER go back there.

I think I still have some sleazium on me to this day!!

I am enjoying the hell out of this site. Even if I don't ever get back into nukes, I am glad I found it!

Funny, I can look out my back door and see the Limerick cooling towers steaming away. If I had a huge bungee cord, I could slingshot my way to work If I had a job there!

Maybe I should stop and see what they might have in positions.

Again, great thread and I have just begun to enjoy the ride here!

Ex-Nuke
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2010, 04:13 by ExNuke »

Offline walstib

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #31 on: Aug 16, 2010, 11:07 »
Oysters license contains such language that restricts the time of year that the plant can be shut down to minimize the stress on the fish in the canal.  If I can remember correctly, the time frame for not shutting down is November to April. 

That's partially correct.  I was there for one of their fall outages, and the requirement is they shut down before November so the fish can acclimate to the slowly cooling water temps.  If they aren't shut down before November then they aren't allowed to shut down until the spring when the water temps are rising, otherwise the sudden temperature drop kills off a bunch of fish
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Offline walstib

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #32 on: Aug 16, 2010, 01:04 »
If what LM says is only partially correct, would you please explain what he said that is partially incorrect?



I was explaining that the plant can be shut down during the winter months as long as they shut it down before November.  As long as they do it that way the canal temperature isn't such a shock as it cools to equalize with ocean temp and you don't have the fish going to meet their maker.
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail -Emerson
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Offline Laundry Man

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #33 on: Aug 16, 2010, 01:49 »
I was explaining that the plant can be shut down during the winter months as long as they shut it down before November.  As long as they do it that way the canal temperature isn't such a shock as it cools to equalize with ocean temp and you don't have the fish going to meet their maker.

Please explain, they can shut down the plant during the winter months as long as they shut it down by November.  I realize that winter doesn't officially start until December but your logical simply mystifies me.  I stand by my previous post.  I was an Exelon employee there for quite a while.
LM

Offline walstib

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #34 on: Aug 17, 2010, 07:43 »
That is not what you said:


Au contraire, that is exactly what I said.  Try highlighting the rest of the sentence "as long as they shut it down before November."[/b]The plant can be shutdown i.e., offline during the months of November, December, etc (although they try not to) as long as they went offline prior to November.  During the summer months there is not such a step change between the canal temp and the ocean so when the ocean temps start to decline for the winter months the fish are not suddenly shocked and start dying, they have acclimated to the oceans water temp.
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 07:45 by walstib »
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail -Emerson
If you are going through hell, keep going
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro - H S Thompson

Offline walstib

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #35 on: Aug 17, 2010, 11:04 »
Partially correct in that the plant can't shut down from November till April, there he is right.  Incorrect because he doesn't think they can be shut down in the winter months and they can.  As long as they shut down prior to then, so the fish have time to adjust to the oceans temp before the temps start dropping.  

That is the whole basis as to why Oyster creek was told that if they want to have a fall/winter outage they must shutdown prior to November or they're not allowed to shut down.  I was there back in the 90's when that exact situation came up, which is how I learned about all this.
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2010, 11:05 by walstib »
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail -Emerson
If you are going through hell, keep going
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro - H S Thompson

Offline BetaAnt

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #36 on: Sep 17, 2010, 10:37 »
Why not shut shut down in December and have a Christmas to New Years Fish Fry??? :P

Environmentalists are nuts. Warm water attracts non-native species that die-off when the warm water goes away. It returning nature to balance. Solution... install water heaters in the canal to maintain the proper water temperature during shutdown. Bill the customer and explain the reasoning. Have the public complain to the environmentalists.

Or, forgo the heaters and build a cat food factory on the canal.  :P

What did the EIS state before the plant was built? If the lack of warm water returns the area back to before plant conditions, what's the problem then?

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JustinHEMI05

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #37 on: Dec 09, 2010, 12:33 »
Exelon pulls plug on Oyster.

"NEW YORK, Dec 9 (Reuters) - Exelon Corp (EXC.N) will shut
the Oyster Creek nuclear power plant in New Jersey in 2019,
about 10 years before its license expires, in a deal with the
state allowing the reactor to operate until then without
building expensive cooling towers, the company said in a
release late Wednesday."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0920301820101209

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #38 on: Dec 09, 2010, 12:55 »
Time for the Eye of Sauron to look greedily towards the west...

co60slr

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #39 on: Dec 09, 2010, 02:26 »
I love politics.  Here we go....

What is the real problem in Great Bay, NJ?   Radioactivity?  Warm water from nuclear plant?   Hmmm....let's see what the EPA finds:

http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/fishshellfish/fishadvisories/upload/2008_06_05_fish_advisories_archives_nlfa2000.pdf

Oh look...they have PCBs, Dioxins, and Cadmium.   Yum!   Fish/Shellfish with a side of cancer!   Save the PCB saturated fish from the local nuclear power plant!

But wait...the price of electricity isn't high enough in New England yet.  Let's get Excelon to shut down early, so they can buy electricity at a higher premium from nearby co-ops.   It's already costing residents (who are also plagued with a State Budget crisis) about $16.52 kw-hr (i.e., highest in NE).  The Governor can do better than that!   $20/kw-hr?

I wonder how much pollutants clog the cooling system inlet filters.   Any AUO/NLOs from Oyster Creek care to comment?  I think Exelon should charge NJ for cleaning up the mess the best way they can given the circumstances.

Tree huggers with only Liberal Arts degrees that worm their way into authoritative organizations are a detriment to society.
/RANT
:)
Co58

 

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #40 on: Dec 09, 2010, 02:29 »
I spent my karma until late tonight, but yet again, you prove that having an idol to your worship is a good thing.  :P

co60slr

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #41 on: Dec 09, 2010, 04:10 »
I spent my karma until late tonight, but yet again, you prove that having an idol to your worship is a good thing.  :P
Nah...sometimes I don't know when to shut up.    Nothing new for me.  ;)

Marssim used to send me a daily private counseling PM (which I appreciated).   I think he's given up though.  LOL

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #42 on: Dec 10, 2010, 05:11 »
Nah...sometimes I don't know when to shut up.    Nothing new for me.  ;)

Marssim used to send me a daily private counseling PM (which I appreciated).   I think he's given up though.  LOL

Considering I sometimes don't know when to shut up, and often challenged my superiors in a not so professional way, I wonder how we would have worked together in the Navy? ;D

Then again, you're competent so I probably wouldn't have had to yell at you much.  :P
« Last Edit: Dec 10, 2010, 05:11 by JustinHEMI »

co60slr

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #43 on: Dec 10, 2010, 05:34 »
Then again, you're competent so I probably wouldn't have had to yell at you much.  :P
When has THAT ever stopped a good nuke?   :P

Back on subject...do you have your "Save the Cadmium Fish" t-shirts on order?
« Last Edit: Dec 11, 2010, 11:50 by Co60Slr »

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #44 on: Dec 10, 2010, 05:46 »
LMAO no I will have to look into that.  8)

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #45 on: Dec 11, 2010, 10:12 »
To be quite honest there isn't anyone I've "met" at nukeworker that I don't think I couldn't work with and enjoy doing so.

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #46 on: Dec 11, 2010, 04:28 »
BTW I'll bet a years salary they won't shut that plant down in 10 years.

Offline Frankie Love

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #47 on: Dec 13, 2010, 11:17 »
Quote
BTW I'll bet a years salary they won't shut that plant down in 10 years.

After having been on the "inside" for a number of years, I know Exelon wanted to shut the place down along time ago because of Union difficulties. That was five years ago and before the license renewal.

Offline Rennhack

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #48 on: Dec 13, 2010, 12:26 »
(trust me, I've made a good living off of burying the bones of places "too big to fail"),...

That's what they said about Zion.

And that Iridium (Satellite Telephone) stock I had.

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: Oyster Creek Cooling Towers
« Reply #49 on: Dec 15, 2010, 04:04 »
Oyster Creek is a cash cow. 10 years is a long time. Zion had a bad operating record combined wth Union issues. OC is a decent operating plant.

 


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