Questions about having kids while in Nuke pipeline.

[snowman7200]

I completed NFAS as an MM, finished 4th overall in my class, and am currently on T-track until the end of the month when i class up for NPS.

I am a sub-vol and am hoping to get onto an SSBN out of Bangor, WA. My wife and I want to start having kids soon, so we have some chance at boys before I get on a sub. I was concerned about trying to deal with a pregnant wife and raise a newborn while in NPS and Prototype, but I DO want to be there for as much as I can. I would rather be there for the pregnancy and first few months(or weeks i suppose) of the baby's life, than miss that and be around for the 3mo-1yr stage.

I had originally thought about waiting until after my first deployment to start with kids, but after discussing it, I'm fairly sure I won't be able to guarantee being there for those above times.

Anyone been through this situation and have any advice? Things to do or not to do? Thanks in advance.

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok young Padawan......

First off, you have a 50-50-90 chance of having a boy regardless of sub duty or not.  I do not believe there has been any positive correlation between sub duty and gender of children.  I knew just as many guys who had boys as girls that were on subs. 

Secondly, I understand the whole "wanting to be there" but there is an old saying in the Navy, which has been repeated on this forum,  that "you can be there for conception or birth, but rarely for both."  Of course there are exceptions but that usually includes overhuals or shore duty. 

Thirdly, seeing as I am raising a two-year old right now, I can tell you that there isn't any period that I would want to miss, but if I had to, the first few months would probably be easiest.  They just tend to sleep most of the time and eat/poop the rest of the time, although this is the time that your wife will also need you the most.

[Chimera]

You might want to reconsider the rush to have children while still in the Navy.  Good grief, that sounds just like the advice my father gave me.  Speaking as a former nuke submarine sailor and full-time father, the Navy will put a huge strain on your marriage without the additional stressor of raising children.  I know.  Both my sons were born while I was still in the Navy (no, I didn't listen either).  The studies and homework while in school and the long deployments afterwards will weigh on both of you.

All I'm suggesting is that, given the length of your enlistment, you may want to think about delaying the onset of family-hood for a few years until you've had a better look at the life the Navy has in store for you.

[Neutron_Herder]

I truthfully don't know if there's a good time to have kids while in the Navy, unless you're on shore duty.  Having a newborn at home while you're still in the pipeline is going to make life a lot tougher for you...  both at home and at school.  You're not going to be able to get the time off to go to doctor's appointments and things of that nature.  Also, long nights with the baby are going to make you even more tired the next day at school.

There's also the financial aspect to think of.  I had my first kid when I was an ET3, and it was tough!  I'm not sure how it is now, but as a third class way back when (1991) I qualified for federal assistance... 

I'd wait until I got out to the boat and had sea pay, sub pay, and whatever other money they throw at sub guys.  It would be a significant difference in your pay, plus if you get a boomer you'll have a pretty good idea of your schedule and can plan the family accordingly.

[navsteve]

Just a side note; you have a very small chance of being assigned to a sub in Bangor.  If you request Bangor, you are most likely headed to Hawaii.

[DDMurray]

I completed NFAS as an MM, finished 4th overall in my class, and am currently on T-track until the end of the month when i class up for NPS.

I am a sub-vol and am hoping to get onto an SSBN out of Bangor, WA. My wife and I want to start having kids soon, so we have some chance at boys before I get on a sub. I was concerned about trying to deal with a pregnant wife and raise a newborn while in NPS and Prototype, but I DO want to be there for as much as I can. I would rather be there for the pregnancy and first few months(or weeks i suppose) of the baby's life, than miss that and be around for the 3mo-1yr stage.

I had originally thought about waiting until after my first deployment to start with kids, but after discussing it, I'm fairly sure I won't be able to guarantee being there for those above times.

Anyone been through this situation and have any advice? Things to do or not to do? Thanks in advance.

The thing about boys is an Urban Legend (I think).  My wife got pregnant while I was finishing up at NPTU.  She had our son while I was in refit away from home (SSBN 633B).  I got to be there for the birth and went back to the boat the day she got back from hospital.  When my daughter was born two years later I was again in refit away from home.  I didn’t make it home in time to witness the birth and left for 2 and a half months the day she got home from the hospital.  Luckily my mother-in-law stayed with her after both births.  I don’t think missing the birth caused any psychological trauma to any of us, though it would have been nice to have been there for both.  I do know it was tough on my wife when the kids were small.  Flash forward to when the kids were high school and college ages.  She hated when I went to sea and she was by herself.  Like a good husband I got her a dog.  Oh, and then I retired.  It’s really tough to give advice on kids since there are so many factors.  

The navy is a lot more family friendly now.  When my son was born I was a nub in an overmanned division, only qualified SEO.  Though not needed on the watchbill, they would only let me go up for three days so I could come back and be on the paint team.  When my daughter was born, I was a heavy-hitter on maintenance and the RPPO in a junior division so I understood a little better needing to get back.  No matter if you go to an SSBN or SSN, the command will most likely try to work with you so you can be there.  However, if the ship is deployed or on patrol it may be pretty tough.  When I was deployed on SSN 720 at the onset of GWOT, I racked out one of my guys to give him the message that he was a father.  In the end the key thing is how your wife handles you being away.  

Remember to keep practicing!  A good nuke exceeds the minimum (monthly) proficiency requirements.

This from the HKNS (Hong Kong No Shi^^er) archives:  Had a LTjg on the 633 who was convinced the odds were against him having a boy so he did lots of fertility research.  He ended up always wearing boxers and performing his husbandly duties doggie-style with a rubber band around his right (might have been left) testicle.  Not sure why he shared that with us.  It must have worked because his wife had a boy.

[snowman7200]

Thank you all for the advice, I agree with everything you guys said. My wife doesn't though.

[LivinginParadise]

Just a side note; you have a very small chance of being assigned to a sub in Bangor.  If you request Bangor, you are most likely headed to Hawaii.

Don't try to play the "outsmart the detailer game." It doesn't work. Put in for places you think you can deal with living for four years, not necessarily the class of boat.

Take me for example. I graduated at the top of my class, so IN THEORY, I should have had my choice of duty station. As such, I requested at the top of my dream sheet, a 688(i) out of Pearl [for those playing the home game, i requested 688(i) at the bottom of my dream sheet]. So what did I get? (Learn this phrase...) Malicious Compliance. I got a 688(i) out of Pearl that will deploy  one more time, then go to the yards... in NH for the rest of my enlistment...

Seriously though, there's a paragraph area at the bottom of the dream sheets for you to write what you want as far as special requests. For the most part, especially for the single sailor, your words are worth less than the ink you wrote them with. However, if you do well at prototype, and you give the detailer a compelling reason for a certain duty station or class of boat, you stand a good chance of getting it. Just remember, beggers can't be choosers. So be prepared to get a boomer out of kings bay instead.

[LivinginParadise]

As an afterthought... if you're dead set on Bangor, and time with your wife, you could always ask for a Seawolf class without volunteering for special projects. Then, if the detailer is having a good day, you have a  50/50 shot of ending up on a certain boat who almost never leaves the pier...

[Samabby]

The big question- how old are you and the mrs? 

[snowman7200]

The big question- how old are you and the mrs? 

I'm 21, but will probably be about 23 before I get to a ship. She turns 21 around spring break.

[Samabby]

Wait until you get through the pipe and she graduates. Thank me later.  Good luck, son.

[mostlyharmless]

Well said marssim. Remember at one time or another, on one level or another everyone is an idiot.(Adams,the creator of Dilbert). I know this from personal experience. Many times. But to the point, bond,promise,and trust: you make sacrifices,you do what you must , what you can, and sometimes what you want. You are thinking about someone other than yourself(snowman and marssim) its nice to see. Good luck. Wish I could help but the closest I ever came to the fleet was a father with twenty years retired.

[snowman7200]

As an afterthought... if you're dead set on Bangor, and time with your wife, you could always ask for a Seawolf class without volunteering for special projects. Then, if the detailer is having a good day, you have a  50/50 shot of ending up on a certain boat who almost never leaves the pier...

What sub might that be? And why?

[withroaj]

What sub might that be? And why?

The answer to that question is toeing the OPSEC line too closely.  I'd recommend submitting to the idea that you're going to sea (it is the Navy, might as well give it a shot, eh?).  They didn't put reactors on ships to leave 'em in port now, did they?

You can shoot for a Pre-Commissioning Unit if you want some time to adapt to a ship before going to sea, or you can find a carrier going in for refueling and potentially do a full enlistment without a day at sea.  Keep in mind, though, that the U.S. Navy has roughly 85 nuclear powered ships in commission or under construction, and that over 70 of those are submarines.  Chances are, you're going to spend some time at sea.

...Or I just misinterpreted your question and it was just genuine curiosity about the status of one of our fancy SEAWOLF boats.  If so I'm truly sorry.

[snowman7200]

The answer to that question is toeing the OPSEC line too closely.  I'd recommend submitting to the idea that you're going to sea (it is the Navy, might as well give it a shot, eh?).  They didn't put reactors on ships to leave 'em in port now, did they?

You can shoot for a Pre-Commissioning Unit if you want some time to adapt to a ship before going to sea, or you can find a carrier going in for refueling and potentially do a full enlistment without a day at sea.  Keep in mind, though, that the U.S. Navy has roughly 85 nuclear powered ships in commission or under construction, and that over 70 of those are submarines.  Chances are, you're going to spend some time at sea.

...Or I just misinterpreted your question and it was just genuine curiosity about the status of one of our fancy SEAWOLF boats.  If so I'm truly sorry.

No, I had fully planned on spending quite a bit of time at sea. Not looking forward to it, but I expected as much. I was genuinely curious about the boat in question.

[withroaj]

Yeah... probably best not to talk about the schedule of any given ship.  It probably won't affect you in the long run anyway.

Try to look forward to time at sea.  There's an appeal to it, though I can't say that I really enjoy it.  It's kind of cool to be able to turn off the real world for a while and just do the job they pay us to do.  You just have to learn to be confident in your situation at home, know that your wife will do well while you're away, and appreciate whatever time you spend wherever you spend it.

Being a nuke you might never get the urge to go up into the bridge during surface transits.  Go up there.  Stand some topside lookout U/I's.  Few experiences in my life compare to sitting on the sail of a fast attack at sea.  Going topside to take swipes is pretty sweet, too.

Make sure you have fun with it, or you won't have any fun with it .

[DDMurray]

The answer to that question is toeing the OPSEC line too closely.  I'd recommend submitting to the idea that you're going to sea (it is the Navy, might as well give it a shot, eh?).  They didn't put reactors on ships to leave 'em in port now, did they?

You can shoot for a Pre-Commissioning Unit if you want some time to adapt to a ship before going to sea, or you can find a carrier going in for refueling and potentially do a full enlistment without a day at sea.  Keep in mind, though, that the U.S. Navy has roughly 85 nuclear powered ships in commission or under construction, and that over 70 of those are submarines.  Chances are, you're going to spend some time at sea.

...Or I just misinterpreted your question and it was just genuine curiosity about the status of one of our fancy SEAWOLF boats.  If so I'm truly sorry.

Under no circumstances would I recommend new conn as a first command.

[withroaj]

Under no circumstances would I recommend new conn as a first command.

I could not agree with you more.

[Neutron_Herder]

Just to chime in...  Definitely don't do a new commissioning as your first ship!

You could do your six years and never really qualify your watches, and never see the plant up. Even if you were to stay in you'd be a couple of years behind your peers that went to sea.

Same goes for refueling overhauls, though not quite as bad.

[playswithairplanes]

That whole "all girl babies" thing is just BS ol' wives tale.  My first (a son) was born while I was in serving on a sub. I was there for the birth, but not the first few months of his life. My second two were after I was out (by a decade for the 2nd and 14 years for the 3rd) and both are girls.

Putting something on your dreamsheet is a crapshoot. I went to prototype in Idaho. I requested Charleston, Groton, and San Diego... I got Bangor. Feh... worked for me.

Having kids while you are in is TOUGH. In the pipeline makes a hard thing even harder. Wait until you are to your first command. You'll have more money, a bit better conditions, and more importantly SHE will have a better support network in the other wives on the boat. Keep in mind you WILL be gone at least half the year regardless of class of boat you get, maybe more, but not less (provided you're not in the yards in which case it's the cursed "in port" but you'll WISH you were underway). Regardless your wife will HAVE to get to be self sufficient. If she isn't now, GET HER THERE. If she needs you to take here everywhere, break her of that habit NOW. You are freaking casper once you are on the boat. You might be there, but you really aren't there. She's going to have to deal with the dog puking, the car busted, the dishwasher spewing dishes across the house, etc all with out you. Make sure she can do that now.

PreComm isn't bad if you get there at the endish, sea trials are a bit of a beeotch, but stuff like DASO is kinda fun. Certainly not the first crew up though.

[crusemm]

Regardless your wife will HAVE to get to be self sufficient. If she isn't now, GET HER THERE. If she needs you to take here everywhere, break her of that habit NOW. You are freaking casper once you are on the boat. You might be there, but you really aren't there. She's going to have to deal with the dog puking, the car busted, the dishwasher spewing dishes across the house, etc all with out you. Make sure she can do that now.

Amen Brother.  I've often thought, for every sea service ribbon, NAM, or stripe I got, my wife should have gotten one right alongside me.  When I finally got to shore duty and saw what she really did, I couldn't believe it.  The next week I bought her a ring with the biggest rock I could afford.

[goobs22xx]

My wife and I had our second child while I was a student at NPTU. It wasn't easy, by any stretch, but we made it.

I can't offer you a comparison to the fleet, as I haven't been there yet. I'm on the tail end of a SPU tour and about to start STA-21 now.

Its doable. Best of luck in whatever you decide.

[Neutron_Dodger]

We had our first child while I was in prototype.  Then our second while I was in the STA21 program.  We were older than you guys, though.  I highly recommend that you not get married until after you are 23-24...but since you already are married, not too helpful.  That being said, I recommend that you guys wait at least 2-3 years of marriage before you have kids.  There is no good time to have kids (as previously mentioned) and you will never be ready (financially or mentally/emotionally)  you just do it.  We did the WIC program in 2001-2002 while I was a E3-E5 then I was no longer eligible.

BTW... I had two boys.

[dave in St. Louis]

Don't try to play the "outsmart the detailer game." It doesn't work. Put in for places you think you can deal with living for four years, not necessarily the class of boat.

Take me for example. I graduated at the top of my class, so IN THEORY, I should have had my choice of duty station. As such, I requested at the top of my dream sheet, a 688(i) out of Pearl [for those playing the home game, i requested 688(i) at the bottom of my dream sheet]. So what did I get? (Learn this phrase...) Malicious Compliance. I got a 688(i) out of Pearl that will deploy  one more time, then go to the yards... in NH for the rest of my enlistment...

Heh...

When we were at Prototype (S8G), I put in for a Boomer out of Bangor.  I got sent, in what I'm convinced was a joke by my detailer, to a Boomer out of Bangor with a hull number the same as the last three of my Social Security Number.