SWO(N) Getting In. NUPOC Route. Did VIP Tour. Officer App questions.

[qnucforum]

Hello Nuke Workers,

I just recently did my VIP tour and got tons of questions answered. Saw the USS Abe Lincoln (CVN-72) and USS Henry Jackson (SSBN-730) during the trip and spoke with several officers and enlisted in the tour and at the lunch hours.

I was told that going to VIP means I'm in good standing to finish the NUPOC program and get into Navy as a Nuke Officer.

My Stats:
BS Nuc Eng [2.8]
MS Elec Eng [3.2 - Not completed yet]
Did VIP tour, made great impression. The 2 Lt's and the Senior were great escorts and taught us much.
Really loved the ships/boats and want to serve on a Carrier. Also like the fact that there are tours on non-carriers to get breath of experience.
Have an fiancee, been together for 9 years now, and really supportive of what I want to do in the Navy.
Great personality. Good leadership skills. Good intellect. Okay Physical Strength. And Strong Willpower.
No hands on experience with the Navy. Have a strong intellectual and vicarious experience from listening to/reading about officers and enlisted.

Situation: My recruiter tells me I gotta put down submarine as my first choice on my application and surface as second choice. I love both, and love the technology of the warheads as well as the stealth tech's. But my heart wants to go career on the surface and to one day do a major command on the surface after being a Reactor Officer. Guessing that's 18+ years down the line, not sure and didn't get the exact info. I also know that switching between the two (sub and surface) is not easy and not a choice. And I do not want to go from sub to surface and find myself way behind my same year on surface.

So here are my questions:

1. If I'm doing the NUPOC route and put surface only as my preferences on my App4Commission, will I get SWO(N) officer if I'm selected?

2. Does listing Surface only drop me out of the nuke process cause I heard that billings fill up fast and they won't give it to me cause I'm a guy?

3. Does putting down preferences in the App4Comm mean those choices in that order is set in stone before I even interview?

4. At the end of the form there is a box to select if I "do not" want DoD to look at other options if I'm not selected. What does this really mean in the recruiting process?

5. I read here in the forums that retention rate for SWO(N) are the lowest followed by Subs. I want to go to SWO(N) and work my way through the tours as far as I can handle. I also read that there are 20 slots for SWO(N) commands but subs has 90 command slots. Does this mean that most SWO(N) gets lateral transferred and de-nuked after their 6th year?

6. I have also read that carrier deployment can go up to 10 months. While a carrier officer I spoke with over the phone says expect 6-7. I'm comfortable with the longer deployment, still, I am hoping to get more perspectives from those who served. What was your 2 year cycle like?

7. Submariners tell me they do about two missions per 6 month deployment, what kind of missions, if at all, do surface ships do?

8. Any advice or other perspectives?

Thank you for your time reading this thread. If you can give your perspectives and experience, I would really appreciate it.

[HydroDave63]

The more closely aligned your requests to the Needs of the Navy, the greater the chance of success.

You make great mention of wanting to go SWO(N), yet questions #6 and #7 show you haven't done much research as to what the job entails.

With a shrinking economy, lots of competition, and not the most competetive GPA, your choices might be asking for subs with no if's-and's-or but's ....or nothing at all.

Just my two midrats worth...

[Samabby]

" Have an fiancee, been together for 9 years now,"

Feet stuck in cement? 

[Duchess]

It doesn't matter which program you enter in the preference section on your application.  Your package will be screened the same way - it doesn't matter if you put surface or submarines as your first choice.  All fleet programs (subs and surface) are screened the same way.

If you are screened for fleet programs then you have the option of submarines or surface.  Surface is pretty much full through FY-12.  So, surface is probably not going to be an option.  You can put it on your application...you never know.  The Program Manager will tell you which community you can join if you are invited to an interview.  If there are no spots open in surface then submarines will be your only option.

Best advice I can give you:
If you are interested in NUPOC and want to get into the program in the near future you need to submit an application ASAP.  We take about 25 applicants to interview per month and there are over 140 applications in processing.  You do the math.  The longer you wait to submit an application, the higher the pile your application is going to be under.

[S3GLMS]

The economic situation has made this era very much like the late 1980's and early 1990's for selection and retention criteria.  The Navy had their pick of the very best applicants and could afford to turn away a lot of otherwise qualified applicants.  it was very competitive then , not that it is not competitive now, but that tweak in the economy made a lot of people look at the NUPOC program in the late 1980's, and there was alot of applicants trying to get approved, just like now apparently.  Also, there appears to be alot less billets right now, in 1989 there were over 100 sub billets available in the June 1989 timeframe.  There was about the same surface billets (More Cruisers than carriers then).  All in all it was hard to get accepted for a number of years in SWO(N) (I am referring to OCS, that was my experience).  In the mid 1990's when the Seaman to Admiral Programs and STA 21 was formed, It changed the way the enlisted groups were slotted when accepted into the different Nuclear communities and the total number of available slots outside the navy.  That period lasted about five or six years after the stock market crash of 1987.  I watched it happen and followed it through the mid 1990's.  So it may be safe to predict this will be ocurring agin unless a significant number of new ships and subs are commissioned to create more billets.  The economy tends to be the navy recrruiters best friend and a college graduates biggest problem.  Good luck on getting accepted either program is great SWO(N) or subs.

[Duchess]

The economic situation has made this era very much like the late 1980's and early 1990's for selection and retention criteria.  The Navy had their pick of the very best applicants and could afford to turn away a lot of otherwise qualified applicants.  it was very competitive then , not that it is not competitive now, but that tweak in the economy made a lot of people look at the NUPOC program in the late 1980's, and there was alot of applicants trying to get approved, just like now apparently.  Also, there appears to be alot less billets right now, in 1989 there were over 100 sub billets available in the June 1989 timeframe.  There was about the same surface billets (More Cruisers than carriers then).  All in all it was hard to get accepted for a number of years in SWO(N) (I am referring to OCS, that was my experience).  In the mid 1990's when the Seaman to Admiral Programs and STA 21 was formed, It changed the way the enlisted groups were slotted when accepted into the different Nuclear communities and the total number of available slots outside the navy.  That period lasted about five or six years after the stock market crash of 1987.  I watched it happen and followed it through the mid 1990's.  So it may be safe to predict this will be ocurring agin unless a significant number of new ships and subs are commissioned to create more billets.  The economy tends to be the navy recrruiters best friend and a college graduates biggest problem.  Good luck on getting accepted either program is great SWO(N) or subs.

I think you are right on the money.  We have filled almost all of the FY-10 NUPOC slots and will quickly start eating into the FY-11 slots.  Once those are gone I think the competition is going to become very, very stiff.

I don't want to discourage any potential applicants.  There are still many vacancies to be filled but time is not on your side.  The longer you wait the lower your chances.

[qnucforum]

The more closely aligned your requests to the Needs of the Navy, the greater the chance of success.

You make great mention of wanting to go SWO(N), yet questions #6 and #7 show you haven't done much research as to what the job entails.

With a shrinking economy, lots of competition, and not the most competetive GPA, your choices might be asking for subs with no if's-and's-or but's ....or nothing at all.

Just my two midrats worth...

I have asked question 6 to a few different people and got some responses already. They vary a bit depending on the which years these Lt./Lt.Cdm served. I was hoping with more experiences I would get a better idea. I thought it was different ship from ship.

As for number 7, sorry, I am a not knowledgeable at that. I did not get many answers to that specifically. I got plenty of answers about what the carriers do while on their tour, including many articles from undersea magazine and other navy magazine. However, I never heard the term mission in regards to small isolated trips carriers would go on. So I asked if carriers do these impromptu missions.

Sorry if my question was not clear; I wrote a lot at one time.

[qnucforum]

I think you are right on the money.  We have filled almost all of the FY-10 NUPOC slots and will quickly start eating into the FY-11 slots.  Once those are gone I think the competition is going to become very, very stiff.

I don't want to discourage any potential applicants.  There are still many vacancies to be filled but time is not on your side.  The longer you wait the lower your chances.

Thank you very much Duchess and S3GLMS. I have been reading about how the economy is pushing more to sign up and less ships available form many of the threads here about enlisted and non-nuke billets.

The NTO and the Senior Chief on the trip gave me the very opposite impression. They told me that it would take about 1 month from the end of March for applicants now to get screened. They take 24 interviews a month, and 140 applications on the queue. Very similar to what you have said. However, they said that while their are many applicants, the system is still setting them up with interviews, just later and later in the year. They also said that much of the screening in terms of grades were done before the VIP trip. The NTO said that he can get waivers for my bad grades easily because of how things went in college for me. The NTO knew my transcript while I was on the trip.

Is it their jobs, the NTO and senior, to give it a positive spin despite what is happening?

Thank you for letting me know that no matter what I put, if I'm in NUPOC, the screening is the same S3GLMS. This helps me know how the "needs of the Navy" works more.

Thank Duchess, for telling me that the slots for FY-10 is nearly filled and FY-11 are going to fill up next. That lets me know at least a little why the NTO is saying there are space. But the spaces are in the future.

[Duchess]

Is it their jobs, the NTO and senior, to give it a positive spin despite what is happening?

Based on your description sounds like they were being pretty honest about the current situation.  Since you have already applied then you might not have much longer to wait.

I think some recruiters/NTOs have different styles.  Putting a positive spin on things is part of their style.  Personally, I like to prepare for the worst case scenario and that bleeds through when I talk with applicants.

Your worst case scenario is that it will probably take more than a month to screen your package, you may not be able to interview until June/July, and you won't be able to get a SWO(N) position.  The best case is that you recieve a quick screening, go to interview next month, then get a SWO(N) position.  Reality will probably be somewhere in between.

If best case works out - Great...but be prepared for the worst case.

Actually, your worst case scenario is that you won't be invited to interview but that scenario seems unlikely (though possible - since you haven't received the invitation yet).

Good luck with the screening/interview process.  Don't forget to study the Math and Physics sections of the NUPOC study guide.  Those seem to be weak points with graduate applicants.

[Gamecock]

It doesn't matter which program you enter in the preference section on your application.  Your package will be screened the same way - it doesn't matter if you put surface or submarines as your first choice.  All fleet programs (subs and surface) are screened the same way.

Trust me on this one....we are only accepting male NUPOC applicants that want to go submarines right now.

Cheers,
GC

[qnucforum]

Thank you Duchess,

I have started on my application, but not everything is in. My recruiter asked me to wait on the medical screening. Most everything is a no on the questionnaire except having seen psychologists in regards to finding out what I want to do in life before I learned of the Navy's nuclear programs.

[qnucforum]

Trust me on this one....we are only accepting male NUPOC applicants that want to go submarines right now.

Cheers,
GC

Got it. So my hope to do SWO(N) is just a wish. That immediately removes any uncertainty.

[spekkio]

Your SWO(N) hopes are not just a dream...they just can't happen RIGHT NOW.

You have to weigh how badly you want to be a SWO(N) vs. being a nuke officer.

If being a SWO is more important, and you need to apply right now, you could always apply for conventional SWO.

If nuke is more important and you need to apply right now, you can go for subs.

If you have time to spare in regards to age or are gainfully employed, you can wait until SWO(N) becomes available to males again.

Good luck.

[qnucforum]

If I go into SWO now, can I use my years of conventional tours for SWO(N) when its available again to catch up to those of my same year in service?

[Duchess]

If I go into SWO now, can I use my years of conventional tours for SWO(N) when its available again to catch up to those of my same year in service?

Nothing is impossible but the answer to this question is very likely no.

The numbers that we are filling right now are associated with the same year group that you would be in as a conventional SWO.  So, there would not be any SWO(N) slots for you to move into since they are being filled as we speak.

[qnucforum]

Thank you again. I will still apply. If it does not work out, I can wait. Hopefully I will not be out of the age group when spots open up.

Even though I have been asking about topsider spots only, I want to be clear I have great respect for submariners and their subs. The technology is amazing and the ability to be anywhere and do (nearly) any type of mission is amazing. And all this tech still pales in comparison to the strength of will of those serving in silence.

[cheme09]

Trust me on this one....we are only accepting male NUPOC applicants that want to go submarines right now.

Cheers,
GC

I recently read that the first female just passed the interview for subs....last month I think.

[Marlin]

I recently read that the first female just passed the interview for subs....last month I think.

If you were a Gold Member you could read all kinds of info on this in PolySci. 

[Duchess]

There are a few NUPOC SWO(N) slots that just opened up.  Males may compete for the positions. 

The openings are available because some potential female sub vols are coming from the currently filled NUPOC SWO(N) billets.

I expect the door to close again within the next couple of months. 

[SWO]

You can always be a supply officer...

[qnucforum]

There are a few NUPOC SWO(N) slots that just opened up.  Males may compete for the positions. 

The openings are available because some potential female sub vols are coming from the currently filled NUPOC SWO(N) billets.

I expect the door to close again within the next couple of months. 

Woot  .

As for supply officer. I actually do not know much about it. I am really interested in working on the reactors personally. Two reactors, twice the fun!