Smoking Lamp is OFF (maybe)

[Curmudgeon]

Women (on sub's) and now this?  Smoking Ban in the works for Submarines

As a young ERLL on a 688i class underway sea-going war vessel (many moons ago) I turned the smoking lamp "off" (it isn't a lamp but I shut smoking down in shaft alley) due to sailors not policing their butts.   I had the Captain visit me inside of 10 minutes afterwards.  He sided with me but he highly encouraged allowing smoking again as soon as possible.

And, we thought we had it bad. 

I can see two (to three) outcomes:
Outcome 1) Abandon Ship!
Outcome 2) Mutiny on the Bounty!   
Or (outcome 3), both (i.e. all the above)!   

What do you current and ex-submariners say?

[Duchess]

The NEX is going to sell a lot more Red Man.

[crusemm]

Back around, Oh must a been 2002 or so, I had a CO who decided that when we went underway next, about 3 weeks away, there would be no smoking on board.  With about two weeks left before we went underway, he had already been overruled by the Commodore and SUBPAC.

[shehane]

bunch of weenies!!!

[JustinHEMI05]

I have always hated activist officers.

[Adam Grundleger]

Echo Duchess: the NEX had better order all the Cope and Skoal they can get.  RL Div had better get their requisitions in now for 250ml wide mouth bottles. 

[BK3]

Here at NNPTC they are saying Dec 31 they are going to get rid of smoking here, so we'll see what happens.

[SWO]

Here at NNPTC they are saying Dec 31 they are going to get rid of smoking here, so we'll see what happens.

Yowser.. not a smoker myself, but i can see that's gonna be fairly rough on the loads of people who do but can't escape for 12 hours each day!

[ETCS-RO]

I think next year will be very interesting.

1) Women on subs..not really against it but HUGE culture shock.  I think this will be more of a problem with wives than sailors.
2) Smoking ban.  I'm pretty sure the ban will include all tobacco products (that includes dip).  head medical dude has also started putting out the the initial bans on the electronic cigarettes just to head that off.  There are going to be some anger management issues.
3) Changes to the don't ask- don't tell policy.  I'll just leave that on at that.

These things individually can be easily overcome, but from the looks of things, they could all hit at about the same time.

[stormgoalie]

Somthing tells me I should be glad that I got out in 1990 Can't imagine being "haze grey and underway" with a bunch of folks trying to quit smoking all at once

[JustinHEMI05]

Yet again, great reasons I got out when I did.

[Harley Rider]

In the mid 90's the USS George Washington's CO banned all smoking on board for a 6 month deployment. As I remember it lasted the full 6 months however the ban was overturned upon returning due to several members contacting their congressional representatives. I am sure that this would probably happen again. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Gamecock]

In the mid 90's the USS George Washington's CO banned all smoking on board for a 6 month deployment. As I remember it lasted the full 6 months however the ban was overturned upon returning due to several members contacting their congressional representatives. I am sure that this would probably happen again. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The proposed ban is based off medical evidence of the very much increased levels of second hand exposure due to the fact that the atmosphere is recycled.

Its not likely to be overturned if it actually goes into effect.

[longbow55]

I think it sucks that my tax dollars support people who smoke. If you want to poison yourself do it with your own money. All military installations should ban smoking, not just the Navy.

[co60slr]

About the topic:  it blows my mind a little.  Women on subs = good, smoking on subs = bad.  Not saying that either one is an absolute travesty, but wow.  I thought I would be about 30 years older before I started complaining about the world changing.

Imagine how the guys felt when they were told 20 years ago to shave their beards, which had been allowed as a norm.

I wonder if second hand smoke from the Diesel counts.   And the oil mist from the old submarine HPACs...don't even get me started.

[JustinHEMI05]

I am willing to wager that there is going to be quite a number of CO's who do not enforce the policy. After all, it really is ultimately up to them. I know of 2 who wouldn't have stopped bringing their cigars underway. It will be like anything else we have to clean up and hide when anyone above O5 comes on board.

All this is, is a political statement by those trying to achieve more stars, IMO.

[Preciousblue1965]

I am willing to wager that there is going to be quite a number of CO's who do not enforce the policy. After all, it really is ultimately up to them. I know of 2 who wouldn't have stopped bringing their cigars underway. It will be like anything else we have to clean up and hide when anyone above O5 comes on board.

All this is, is a political statement by those trying to achieve more stars, IMO.

I gotta agree with Justin here.  I truly believe that there is going to be some boats out there that don't completely adhere to the ban.  After all, once you submerge, it is pretty much the honor system as to whether smoking happens or not.  Wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't an "informal" vote as to whether or not the crew minds smoking or not.  Of course this will occur until one guy who is adamant about not smoking plays whistle blower.  I seriously doubt this will be last we hear of it.  Kinda goes along with the ban of dip on some ships, yet you find spit cups everywhere. 

[Curmudgeon]

I was a little taken back to learn crews smoked on subs; in a recycled air environment, I assumed smoking would not be allowed. Do they have designated smoking areas on subs? Any estimates on the average percentage of a crew on a sub that smoke?

TT,  that question is very dynamic.   But, under most (of my observed sub' time) it wouldn't be over 30 to 40 (%) percent of the crew.   The Navy did provide "free" classes on stopping smoking.   And, you guessed it most relapsed on patrol.

Yes, we designate smoking areas on the boat.   Unfortunately it tends to be in places, IMO, that are the most dangerous.   Like for example, next to the O₂ generator and diesel in Aux. Machinery or in Shaft Alley next to the O₂ outlets.

As to the recycled environment, we have lots of "other" things we put in the air that are equally harmful but, in reality, are just part of doing business.

This really isn't probably an accurate perspective for all boats.   Just mine.

[dave in St. Louis]

The proposed ban is based off medical evidence of the very much increased levels of second hand exposure due to the fact that the atmosphere is recycled.

Its not likely to be overturned if it actually goes into effect.

As opposed to the deleterious effects of the lube oil, diesel and MEA mist in a submarine's atmosphere?

[JustinHEMI05]

As opposed to the deleterious effects of the lube oil, diesel and MEA mist in a submarine's atmosphere?

That is another good point I have been thinking about. I would like to see the study on the rest of the sub's atmosphere, but that won't happen because that isn't in support of the mission.

Again I say, "they" couldn't care less about the health effects of second hand smoke, this is only a political statement by some (an) activist officer(s), and "they" have something to wave in the air to get it done (this study).

I would be willing to place another bet though, that the other atmospheric contaminants on a submarine are much more harmful than some second hand smoke. But, I am not a doctor.

[Preciousblue1965]

As opposed to the deleterious effects of the lube oil, diesel and MEA mist in a submarine's atmosphere?

I don't know what the rules are for painting on a sub underway, but I know on a carrier we painted all the time.  Even though it was officially against the rules to "paint for beautification", it never stopped us from going through gallons of paint when the ORSE team was inbound.  The lube oil and diesel fumes are mission critical, but I wonder if they are going to address other atmosphere contaminants such as paint, cleaning supplies, etc. 

I personally think that there is going to be some issues come of this.  I would say at least a few mastings for sneaking a puff or two and a LOT of looking the other way with regards to some other ships rules.

[co60slr]

I would be willing to place another bet though, that the other atmospheric contaminants on a submarine are much more harmful than some second hand smoke. But, I am not a doctor.

Here's a distant reference:  http://veterans.senate.gov/upload/10_08_09.rtf
Search on "nuclear", then "diesel".   

Interesting language being used in reference to "nuclear workers" and other discussions on the affected of "diesel exhaust".

Co60

[Marlin]

I don't know what the rules are for painting on a sub underway, but I know on a carrier we painted all the time.  Even though it was officially against the rules to "paint for beautification", it never stopped us from going through gallons of paint when the ORSE team was inbound.  The lube oil and diesel fumes are mission critical, but I wonder if they are going to address other atmosphere contaminants such as paint, cleaning supplies, etc.  

I personally think that there is going to be some issues come of this.  I would say at least a few mastings for sneaking a puff or two and a LOT of looking the other way with regards to some other ships rules.

We did not paint when under way, even aerosol deodorant was banned from use (it was the 70s, aerosol spray cans weren't a great ozone killer yet). However after one shipyard visit we were sent on deployment right out of the drydock with fresh paint on much of the engineroom systems and piping. When we lit off the engineering spaces the fumes had everyone nauseous with red eyes for several days while underway. We ventilated as often as possible but we were sent on ops off the eastern seaboard and were limited on time at periscope depth to snorkel.

[JustinHEMI05]

I don't know what the rules are for painting on a sub underway, but I know on a carrier we painted all the time.  Even though it was officially against the rules to "paint for beautification", it never stopped us from going through gallons of paint when the ORSE team was inbound.  The lube oil and diesel fumes are mission critical, but I wonder if they are going to address other atmosphere contaminants such as paint, cleaning supplies, etc. 

I personally think that there is going to be some issues come of this.  I would say at least a few mastings for sneaking a puff or two and a LOT of looking the other way with regards to some other ships rules.

We stripped and painted bilges on my boat underway once. It was a throat burning experience. Oh, we also had to pile up trash once. That was pleasant. Oh, we also blew sans inboard a couple of times. The list goes on and on. Compared to all the other hazards on the boat, 2nd hand smoke is the least of my worries. I would rather deal with 2nd hand smoke than some guy who can't go without smoking anyway.

But a little birdie whispered in my ear that there is something more behind this that can't be said, and that my assumption about it being just a political move is wrong.

So I guess we just wait and see.

[HydroDave63]

I'm still thinkin it's another Adm. Mullet bad hairdo and Star Trek philosophy ....