Rookie Nuke worker Questions

[M1Ark]

You need to PM JMK.  He started at the Cliffs about a year ago right out of the navy as a Chem Tech.  He was also an ELT.

[hamsamich]

I was an ELT, an operator, a Chem Tech, and now i am an HP.  I think being a chemtech is like being an ELT except you have to qualify on many more analysis, much more involved technically.  For instance, you will be looking for specific Isotopic Analysis now instead of just Uci/ml.  And you aren't allowed to operate as many valves as you used to be since you are only a Chem Tech now.  At some plants chemtechs are back-up HPs in some cases.  they don't do too much HP stuff usually.  In an outage chemtechs support outage work but the job doesn't change as much for chemtechs as some other jobs.  you still have to get samples, just some different ones.  you may do more samples that aren't normally done during non-outage.  at some plants (like Salem) chemtechs do some operations stuff, like operating filtration and demin systems.  many plants have pure water supplied by a culligan man type of guy so there will be no Demin plant to run USUALLLY.  Fermi, where i grew up, is cheap to live, but do you really want to live there?

anyway, calvert is nice, but I think it is fairly expensive, but maybe not as expensive as say Pilgrim in massachuss. 

perform analysis on SG, primary, FW, PW many others
training
refill demin beds
some maintenance on a few systems
discharge logs in some cases
some plants the chemtechs refill chemicals nesc. for plant operation (sux!)
rotating shiftwork at SOME plants, but usually a combination of straight days with some shiftwork every now and then
operate Non Rad Waste at some plants

[cincinnatinuke]

Thanks M1Ark for the suggestion.  In fact as I PM'd JMK I got one back.  There was lots of good advice from that and these posts.  So a couple of quick questions.

1. A comment was made to me that 70% of Chem Techs are ex ELTs.  Is the experience and training valuable or would I be introduced to a new way of doing things?  Could a non-navy type do this and if so what are the qualifications?  The reason I ask this is because I have seen alot of wrong assumptions trying to correlate USN to Civilian land.  Alot of what has been said seems to show some redundancy to the Navy, but I would hate to make the wrong assumption.

Can someone elaborate on the training progress a little more?  Does one start from the ground up no matter there previous experience?  In other words, I probably dont get any different qual status for being an ELT, right?  Is it classroom or just alot of pracfacs done on shift???

Actually, I think I will leave my questions to that for now.  Thanks guys and gals.

[Rad Sponge]

Thanks M1Ark for the suggestion.  In fact as I PM'd JMK I got one back.  There was lots of good advice from that and these posts.  So a couple of quick questions.

1. A comment was made to me that 70% of Chem Techs are ex ELTs.  Is the experience and training valuable or would I be introduced to a new way of doing things? 

We are mostly ELTs, but there are many new things to learn that will build on what you have been doing. Atoms are still atoms and ions still act the same way.

The biggest differences for me were learning new procedure formats, new analytical methods, and SLOWING DOWN.

Yes that's right. SLOWING DOWN. Forget the Navy ELT way of rush rush rush. SLOOOOWWWWWWWWING DOWN.

It was a refreshing change once I accepted that I could move at a comfortable pace and no one was harping at me.

[cincinnatinuke]

So, JMK, what your saying is no time requirements to draw the sample on the hour, call away RAM movement, get back to nucleonics, analyze CDA, DGA, and GA within time requirements all while hoping you set the lab up right.  And assuming no added pressure of PM items like effluent samples, DF, etc.  Or having the EOOW reluctant to back off of flank bells so you can draw your sample.

I think learning new methods would be great.  Right now all I envision are the possibilities.  I can understand why many of you guys/gals have stayed in this industry.

One last thing, are you made to memorize the sample sink procedure, recite it while performing it, all the while having some CDR look over you?   Only kidding.  I have been reminiscing for about an hour now and things just keep popping up.  Each is funny in its own right, thanks again folks.

[Rad Sponge]

So, JMK, what your saying is no time requirements to draw the sample on the hour, call away RAM movement, get back to nucleonics, analyze CDA, DGA, and GA within time requirements all while hoping you set the lab up right.  And assuming no added pressure of PM items like effluent samples, DF, etc.  Or having the EOOW reluctant to back off of flank bells so you can draw your sample.

I think learning new methods would be great.  Right now all I envision are the possibilities.  I can understand why many of you guys/gals have stayed in this industry.

One last thing, are you made to memorize the sample sink procedure, recite it while performing it, all the while having some CDR look over you?   Only kidding.  I have been reminiscing for about an hour now and things just keep popping up.  Each is funny in its own right, thanks again folks.

There are still time requirements, sampling frequencies, etc and there are procedures to get familiar with BUT its nothing like the Navy. You always have people looking out for you.

And the equivalent of DGA/CDA/GA is counted by someone else. You draw and prepare the sample and then hand it off to the Radioassay person who then counts it within the prescribed timeframe.

And there is no memorizing the procedures. Its right there for you. Some procedures can be done from memory, some must be opened up and referred to line by line, and some have to be two person reader-operator with circle-slash place keeping.

You still will get observed from time to time by managers and outside inspectors, but its nothing like ORSE.

[kwicslvr]

Being a chem tech is much like being an ELT.   You will perform analytical chemistry just like in the Navy.   The big difference is, at least at Calvert, you do not deal much with the radcon side of an ELT.  The only radcon you deal with really is when you are pulling primary side samples.   It will take you close to 2 years to be a fully qualified shift tech at which time you will go on shift.  Until then it's pretty much day staff. 

As JMK said, the pace of work and quals is much slower.   Most ELT's straight out of the Navy hit the ground running but soon realize that it doesn't help that much.  The nature of the qual beast will slow you down.  Plus you will need that 2 years to really get to know the plant well.

Pay wise for chem techs is usually a little more than NLO's at the start and no matter where you go in the country they are paid about the same.  A plus for Calvert is their relocation is probably one of the best in the country right now.  It is an expensve area to live though.  Any new house will cost north of $300,000 and those are hard to find.  Most new stuff though is typically around $450,000.  Even for a used 3 bedroom 2 bath with 1000sqft will run you close to 300,000.

[cincinnatinuke]

Well its funny you bring up the pay difference between NLO's and Chem Techs.  I got a call back from Duane Arnold and I am attempting to interview next Thursday, depending if arrangements can be made in time.  It seems from the breakdown of pay and factoring in cost of living, I would start out a little lower, but there is a step increase every 6 months until your 2 1/2 year point which keeps it competitive.  Start at ~25/hour and increase to ~29/hour, is what the sheet said.  It sounds as if the qual progress is a little different (as is the job), but still will take some time.

So maybe you fine folks can clarify some things.  "HR lady" (dont want to use real names) says the typical progression is 2 to 2 1/2 years to get fully qualified NLO/Aux Operator.  Is this true?  It was mentioned that the natural progression is to begin licensed operator (RO I guess?) quals.  It seems to me this would be very competitive and not "guaranteed" and merely the likely progression.  Is this true? Do NLO's after some amount of time become pushed to be Licensed Operators, since it benefits the company more.   She brought up this argument in relation to why starting pay is more for Chem Techs initially, but the end of the rainbow is to be an RO, then SRO and operations is the way to go.  Seems to me you could do both, but I am the one out of the know.

Relocation assisatance does seem attractive from what I hear about CC.  Duane Arnold is a little different, ie a lump sum based on need.  I am still waiting on details, but I will let you know.  Probably has something to do with Cost of living in Iowa vs MD.

[M1Ark]

PM'd you with specific answers about Duane Arnold and it's parent company.

M1Ark

[cincinnatinuke]

I was not offered a chem tech job.  I don't think they hire you to be a Chem Tech to become a NLO.  You could transfer if things work out.  But, that is not the progression path that I have been shown.

Sorry for the confusion on this, but I was asking more along the lines of couldnt a chem tech and NLO both progress to RO/SRO?  Or is the key word/letter "O" for operator?  It would definitely be a bummer if as a chem tech I would have to start over as a NLO then RO, then SRO.

I guess my main concern, HC, is that I am 25 yo.  I feel as if I am starting over somewhat from current career, after starting over from the Navy, after starting over from well....stupidity, adolescence, or whatever it is you start over from after high school and enlist.  i have a wife and two kids and i would like to make a more permanent change here.  So if experience from you guys says Chem Techs and NLO's can make the same progressions then my concern is moot.  But if being in Chemistry limits me in the future yet pays more now versus an NLO position which provides better career paths down the road I definitely have something to ponder.  I would appreciate yours or anyone elses feedback on this.

And to the moderators, if this post is straying from topic or out of category please advise on how to move, start anew, or rename the subject.  I keep waiting for B'zilla to tell me to search out my answers   I actually enjoy most of your posts, so that was only a friendly jab.

As for the other item (under-lined).  Well as a matter of fact I was hired on the promise I would progress to RO/SRO as fast as possible.  It was a requirement for my conditional hiring.  So, Yes it is with some utilities.

The facility is union for the Aux Operators, so I may not be able to guarantee progression or expedite quals to get to the next stage.  I am still curious as to how having licensed operators benefits a facility, at least more than what is minmally required.  Is this like having having everyone qualify EWS, therefore they could fit anywhere on the watch bill??  Or am I totally in left field with that one?  I get this gut feeling someone is going to answer this in 3 lines and I am going to feel dumb.  Oh well its late.

Thanks HC and thanks in advance to my additional questions guys and gals.

[cincinnatinuke]

PM'd you with specific answers about Duane Arnold and it's parent company.

M1Ark

Your reply has been PM'd to you.  Thanks for the input!

[Rad Sponge]

At CC there is one place where a Chem Tech can cross over into OPs without starting over as an NLO.

That would be as a STA (Shift Technical Assistant), basically a licensed extra set of eyes in the control room. I think STA grew out of the TMI aftermath.

The Chem Tech would most likely need some sort of engineering or engineering technology degree coupled with the navy experience, plus some good recommendations from management.

That's one way. A seasoned chem tech could just switch to NLO and easily qualify NLO and move into a licensed class. After a couple of years as a chem tech you already have a good bit of integrated plant knowledge. Its an extra couple of years, but big picture its not going to hurt your career.

[cincinnatinuke]

Thanks JMK.  I do have the glorious ABET Excelsior Nuclear Engineering (*cough* Technology) degree, so perhaps my options arent as bad either way if the degree opens some doors later.

So I take it that going from Chemistry to NLO is not such a step back though certainly not lateral either.  I can see how you could "easily" qualify, but how reluctant are Ops folks to allow Chem techs to make this move?  I am sure its been done, but is it an easy transition?

I guess I get a little excited at the amount of avenues available, and I want to make sure they are truly available today and in the future.

[Rad Sponge]

Thanks JMK.  I do have the glorious ABET Excelsior Nuclear Engineering (*cough* Technology) degree, so perhaps my options arent as bad either way if the degree opens some doors later.

So I take it that going from Chemistry to NLO is not such a step back though certainly not lateral either.  I can see how you could "easily" qualify, but how reluctant are Ops folks to allow Chem techs to make this move?  I am sure its been done, but is it an easy transition?

I guess I get a little excited at the amount of avenues available, and I want to make sure they are truly available today and in the future.

People move around all the time. My boss was an NLO then he went to Maint, then RO, then Chem. People have switched from HP to Chem, Chem to OPs, Chem to Waste Management, etc.

I meant "easily" in the vain that after a few years as a Chem Tech, you have been exposed to so much in operations, that qualifying NLO wouldn't be hard especially for a former Navy nuke.

[thedriver]

HI. Ok first im "green" in the nuclear world. i work part time at FENOC's Perry plant doing house keeping. I'm going to lakeland community college for their Nuclear engineering technology degree. for my reactor theory class i need to wright a paper on what type of power plant i would build if i were a ceo of a utility(obviously nuclear ). does anyone have any good sites where i can get some good info(how much it cost to build a plant, pros/cons...)?  TIA

[JessJen]

try to wiki it for starters.....are you looking for something thats still theoretical or a proven cost effective design? I would suggest looking into what MIT has been doing as of late with batteries and berkeleys got a wild little design http://www.coe.berkeley.edu/labnotes/1002/reactor.html .....get to googling!

[thedriver]

i'v been googleing/ wiki for several hours and havent come up with much. but ill keep trying. thanks

[wlrun3@aol.com]

   ...an understanding of why current plants exist is necessary...

   ...the nuclear barons, pringle...nuclear inc., hertsgaard...

   

[Marlin]

Try other universities web sites, NEI, Nucleartourist, DOE, etc.

[jjordan]

Inthe US only one design has been approved, Westinghouse. Most proposed plants are of this design. Two other coices would be Ariva, and GE, both pending approval. Try their web site for more info.
JJ

[SloGlo]

thedriver.... try to google "pebblebed reactor".  although they are not being built on a commercial basis yet anywhere, this may be a good subject for a theoretical " iffen eye were a ceo, i'd build a reactor such as....." paper.  there may not be as much competition for this paper as some types of plants as have been suggested.  or there may be more, depending on your class contemporaries.

[thedriver]

perhaps i wasnt clear this paper is about curten generation reactors. so i neeed info on curent bwr's and pwr's. sry for the confustion.

[JessJen]

then check out westinghouses site for the AP1000......google it and youll find some interesting things your first hit...and for theoretical check out what indias doing with thorium

[M1Ark]

Google ESBWR, AP1000, AREVA EPR

The 3 leading designs based on current technology.

[shayne]

INL is working on the next generation of Reactors that may be some help.

http://nuclear.inl.gov/gen4/