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Content1

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Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« on: Jul 20, 2011, 12:46 »
   I don't know if this is covered in other posts.  Does anyone have a problem with the rad worker doing the RCT work along with their regular work?   Why would you need RCT's then.   In addition, where is the independent oversight?  The place I work is thinking of doing this since they have trouble getting new RCT's nor do they wish to pay for more of them.  They figure it will save them money.   I am surprised then why don't Nuke plants use deconners for RCT work too.   Any rules out there preventing this?

Offline navynukedoc

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 20, 2011, 01:06 »
From my opinion I think it isn't very smart at all. If you are doing the jobs of 2 or 3 different positions then there is a greater chance of accidents to occur. I don't think it would be a big deal if they converted them (they need the proper training and education on the position).

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Offline RDTroja

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 20, 2011, 01:38 »
Canada used to do that. Everyone spent the first months there training in RP, then went to their 'regular' job where everyone was tasked to do their job and the RP job, too. I believe they have gotten (or are getting) away from that because everyone got better at their own jobs and worse at the RP tasks. I am pretty sure they considered it a bad idea after a while.

Maybe stormgoalie will pitch in with the real info.
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Offline tolstoy

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #3 on: Jul 20, 2011, 03:14 »
   I don't know if this is covered in other posts.  Does anyone have a problem with the rad worker doing the RCT work along with their regular work?   Why would you need RCT's then.   In addition, where is the independent oversight?  The place I work is thinking of doing this since they have trouble getting new RCT's nor do they wish to pay for more of them.  They figure it will save them money.   I am surprised then why don't Nuke plants use deconners for RCT work too.   Any rules out there preventing this?

I always thought this was a good cost savings idea for jobs like operator low-level rounds and the like. I agree that it allows for a conflict of interest when doing more high-level work. I wonder how ANSI 3.1 relates? If a worker is a rad-con trained instrument tech how is thier time applied? Half and half?

Offline hatrai07

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #4 on: Jul 20, 2011, 03:17 »
Canada still does it that way, doesn't work very well but still doing it.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #5 on: Jul 20, 2011, 03:55 »
The Canadian system is a little weird.  First you get your Orange badge.  That is qualified rad-worker.  An Orange badge must be supervised by a Green badge.  After six months or so, an Orange badge worker may be trained as a Yellow badge worker.  Yellow badge is self-monitor qualified.  Also, two independent Yellow badges surveying an item can free release it.
Green badges are the equivalent to an RP Tech.  Most foremen and above are Green badged. The Green Man who is actually doing the RP coverage is separate from the foreman who is supervising the work.  Both get paid as foremen for that shift.  However, some Green Men have been shifted back to Yellow if they don't actually do the RP type work for a significant time.  This is because it is too hard to verify the training is up to date for so many people who don't actually do the work.  Another flaw in this system is that Green Men totally ignore all Yellow badged workers.  Self monitors in such an environment are simply allowed to work without Green supervision (job coverage) regardless of where they are working or what they are doing.

Having worked in both Canada and the US, and having observed self-monitoring individuals in both, I can say pretty confidently that it just doesn't work.  Not withstanding licensing requirements to have qualified technicians doing the surveys and job monitoring, it just takes far too much to keep so many people trained at the task. 

It also takes a lot longer to do a job if you have to stop, put down your tools, take readings and smears, draw air samples, write up the results, put up the necessary postings, then go back to the tools.

While one RP can cover the work of several deconners at a time, having each deconner survey his own work will take a lot more man hours, not to mention that people tend to have a lot of faith in their own work and tend not to second guess themselves very much.  Being pretty sure that you just cleaned a floor will tend to make you not go back and smear it a second or third time to catch the spots you may have missed.  Besides, the spots you missed cleaning will be the same spots you miss smearing anyway.

Additionally, the RP part of the job always ends up being secondary to the task at hand.  I very clearly remember watching self-monitor qualified operators moving about in High Radiation Areas with meters slung over their shoulders and not looking at them once.  (Kind of hard to do when the meter is behind your back and you are reading a procedure while looking for the valves you have to turn.)  Every one of them had the required meter, but no use for the thing other than as an admission ticket to an HRA.

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ecjones

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2011, 01:36 »
Only a fool gives up their work to other people. NRC has stated in the past that a worker cannot provide HP coverage and work at the same time. This is common sense. Workers get focused on their jobs and forget basic rad con procedures as we all have seen in our days. If you have not, you need to get up out of your chair and start covering jobs. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR WORK.

Offline HousePuke

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Re: Use regular Rad worker to do RCT work?
« Reply #7 on: Aug 29, 2011, 01:50 »
The OP is talking about workers at the National Ignition Facility (NIF) at Lawrence Livermore Lab.  This is very different than in a nuke plant.  NIF doesn't have any significant radiological concerns, pretty much low levels of tritium and short term activation products immediately following a shot.
The monitoring would primarily consist of checking for tritium with an Overhauf without RCT oversight.  Any work involving dose or real contamination would still be covered by an RCT.
Granted I've been gone from there for a couple of months, but that's still the case ( I checked).
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2011, 01:51 by HousePuke »
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