Naval Reactors vs line officer on sub

[hmnguyen]

I am currently attending UT at Austin and am about to graduate.  I am seriously considering joining the Navy under the Naval Reactors Engineer program (I'm not sure what the official name is, could someone enlighten me).  According to the recruiter, I would be stationed at Washington D.C. as a commissionned officer doing all sorts of things.  My first question is, what kind of responsibilities do these people have and what is a typical day like for one of these engineers?  It's important because the commitment is a good 5 years...

My second questions is, what are my chances getting into this program?  From what I understand, this is the most competitive program in the Navy.  My major is Electrical Engineering.  My G.P.A. is 3.78/4.0.  I'm taking many power systems classes and electromagnetic classes as well.

And for my last question, will the experience, skills, and respect associated with serving in the U.S. Navy be worth it?  I know I could be making twice as much in the civilian world.  My plan is, given that I choose to go through with joining the Navy in this program, I serve for five years, go to grad school, then work in a civilian company, where my degree, coupled with my experiences and skills from the Navy, will allow me to almost FLOAT into upper management...  Basically, my question is, is this a good career move?

Thank you!

[jasonmsmith]

That is a solid program, but I would definitely recommend going in as a line officer vice a staff NR officer.  If you are looking at transitioning into the civilian world after five years, I would guess that having operational experience with nuclear reactors would be more beneficial than having only a theoretical background.  I guess that I am a little biased towards sea service since I am coming off my first sea tour on Submarines. 

[hmnguyen]

Really?  What's that like?  I always wanted to go on tour at least ONCE in a sub...  You think the Navy will allow me to do that?

[ETNuclearSailor]

I dont think you will go on a tour as an NR engineer.

[CharlieRock]

If by tour you mean as a visitor on an underway - you will be given that chance.  You will not be assigned as as part of ship's force - you can't qualify as EOOW, get your dolphins, etc.

NR engineers are basically technical follows for the research, development, construction and maintenance of nuclear powered vessels.  Other areas they oversee are training, environmental affairs, waste disposal.  By technical follow, I mean that your work is basically a watchdog for the two research labs (Bettis and Knolls), procurement agent (BPMI) and various shipyards and vendors that support the NR program.  You 'follow' their work and ensure they meet the programatic goals (cost, time, safety, etc.) but don't do any real design work yourself. 

As to what you'll be doing, after commissioning, you'll head to Bettis Atomic Power Lab in Pittsburgh for the 6 month Bettis Reactor Engineering School (BRES).  BRES is a crash course in the fundamentals of naval nuclear reactor design and construction, including heavy doses of reactor theory, thermo, etc.  It is taught at the Master's level by Bettis engineers and scientists.  After that you will probably be assigned to headquarters in DC for your first technical assignment.  You could also be assigned to Bettis or Knolls as part of the NR contingent at these places.  After you have served your commitment, if you're liked, you'll get the option to stay with NR as a GS.

Let me know if you have nay specific questions.   

[hmnguyen]

Wow, that pretty much answered alot of the questions I have about the program.

As for the experienced I gain from the program, is it marketable to other disciplines of engineering?  You mentioned not much, if any, real "designing" is involved, but that's to be expected (besides, not much engineers with B.S. get to design anyway, that's more of a Masters kinda thing I here).  Eventually, I would like to get some post graduate education in engineering, not sure which discipline yet.  Will my experience in the Navy "look good" in terms of getting accepted to top universities and big companies after my post graduate work?

[CharlieRock]

Absolutely.  The NR program is well-respected throughout the entire engineering community.  The only thing I'll throw in is that your job responsibilities lend themselves more to an engineering project management role than, say, a lead design engineer.  The work of leading and managing research, and research teams, is left to the Labs. 

[hmnguyen]

I understand that this program is really competitve, I was wondering what kind of chance I have?  I will be getting my B.S. in EE with a (if my grades keep up) 3.78/4.0.  I will also have taken alot power systems classes including an intro to nuclear power course.  Thanx.

[CharlieRock]

That's a very competitive GPA in EE.  Your recruiter should help prep you for the interview but almost any engineering/physics/math/chem question that could apply to nuke power is up for grabs.  I was a Computer Eng. major and I almost go killed on a question involving a pH problem. Hated chemistry then and hate it now.

[hmnguyen]

I've just finished my own little personal study of the benifits of joining this program versus working for civilian company when I graduate.  It was strictly an income based study. 

I was wondering, the Naval Nuke Engineers get any special pay bonus on their salary than that of other Navy Officers or do the Nuke workers get paid pretty much the same based on their rank and time in service as other officers do.  The recruiter mentioned that Nuke workers get some sort of bonus... but I can't find it anywhere on the net or any other source. 

Also, the GI Bill is a big reason why I would like to serve.  What are the specific benefits that Naval Nuclear Reactor Engineers are eligiable for in terms of the GI Bill.  Thanks.

[hmnguyen]

Also, which is more respectable, a Navy career as a Naval Reactor Engineer or a Nuclear Propulsion Officer on a sub or surface ship.  Respectable - meaning that once one's commitment is over, which positions skills are more MARKETABLE in terms of career experiences.  Thanks.

[Stix]

Looking at your question from the commercial side, I think that becoming an officer in the operational propulsion plant would be more beneficial in the civillian world.  If you want to get into the upper management, you will most likely have to become SRO certified at the plant at some point (I think it is a requirement to be a plant manager at most if not all sites).  The training to become an engineering plant office helps to prepare you for when you go for your SRO cert.  Remember, the civillian nuclear world was started by ex-navy people, and still holds on to much of the same practices.  The operational plant office role will aid you in dealing with people, where the NR spot doesn't give you much of that experience.  I have seen many engineers who are very intelligent, but when it came to the operational part could not take the stress of the responsibility.  I also have seen where they just couldn't manage their personnel.

If you are looking to be the manager of engineering at a plant and don't want to get into the manager spot, then the NR job would be the better choice, if you learn to deal with people issues on your own.  If you want to get into a VP spot, you will probably have to go through a plant manager position somewhere, not necessarily in nuclear (coal, hydro, gas turbine, etc.), but the nuclear would be the best path.  There are few CEO's and VP's (other than the VP nuclear) that have the nuclear experience.

[sippyCUP]

I'm in NUPOC right now, and will probably graduate with a GPA above 3.9 in nuclear engineering. I initially signed with the Navy because the pay seemed right (signed as soon as I was eligible, thus earning E6 for like 2.5 years of college), the experience sounded good, future career prospects, GI Bill to pay for grad school, and honestly I felt like I didn't want to get entrenched in grad school or a corporate job right out of my bachelor's and the Navy seemed like a good compromise between "advance my future" and "do something different." So my plan was to get a high GPA in college, do navy for 5 years, then use my GPA to get into a good grad school and use the GI Bill to help pay for it. I knew I might want to stay on with the navy longer, which is fine. I'd decide at the end of 5 years if I wanted stay or go civilian.

Two recruiters have recommended that I think changing to Naval Reactors. Only problem is they can't seem to get any good info for me. All I know really is they tell people what to do during maintenance and help oversea the various contractors who build and maintain subs.

Can anyone help me decide if I should apply for NR? They won't take my bonus and my paygrade won't be affected - at least for now. I really don't think the pay will be as good as subs for the first 5 years because I won't get the 25k sub bonus while on a tour.
Also, can I even get the GI Bill as a NR guy? I know they go to OIC, not OCS, and they're not considered combatants.

Money's not the only thing to it of course. How do the lifestyles of NR vs nuke officers compare?

Also, which path looks good to whom? I hear if you wanna go to science/engineering grad school, NR is better, whereas being a nuke officer can help you with a wide variety of careers not even related to science. The later sounds good to me because I'm not completely set for doing engineering for life. Don't get me wrong - I'm good at it and appreciate it a heck of a lot, but I don't see anything wrong with considering other careers, either.

Thanks for your time,
Eric


Modified for language.  hc

[Gamecock]

First...you don't get the $25K bonus until after you're qualified Engineer and completed your  MSR (Minimum Service Requirement.......i.e. your first 5 years).  As an NR engineer, you will never get a nuclear bonus.

I've done the Junior Officer tour on subs....its hard work......but its great experience....I would not trade it for anything.

[sippyCUP]

My bad, I meant see pay (much less than 25k/year I know).

I heard there has to be at least one dive-qualified officer per sub. If I wanted to go to dive school, when in the nuke training could that go? Directly after OCS?

[Gamecock]

If you mean go to navy diver school and get certified as a navy diver, you might have that option.  The guys who I knew who did that were all academy grads and they went between commissioning and the start of nuke school. 

[93-383]

Think of NR as the IA section of the police. If you want to be a cop and screw people over.... I mean improve the excelence of the nuclear community, then go NR.

[flamatrix99]

Those Dive positions are Senior NCO and LDO positions on a submarine.
All Line Officers on a submarine are NUKE Power Grad's.  They stand OOD (Officer Of the Deck) watch and I've never seen one stand Dive watch.

I think he means diver as in scuba not Diving Officer of the Watch.

[ddklbl]

Think of NR as the IA section of the police. If you want to be a cop and screw people over.... I mean improve the excelence of the nuclear community, then go NR.

There is more to that organization than what you see.  The OP is asking about NR Engineering, not the NRRO you see daily at prototype or the fleet.  Either way, they have their purpose, as frustrating as that may be.

[Rad Sponge]

In a discussion between NR opportunities and "nuke at sea" opportunities, the very question of diver quals is trivial at best.

Start at the beginning with the biggest question.

Land or Sea?

[sippyCUP]

Yeah I mean dive school is just something I'm interested in, doesn't make or break sub duty for me. I like staying in shape and dive school would be an excellent challenge. Getting paid to work out and learn how to dive, you know?

Anyone heard of a nuke sub officer moving to NR after a tour of duty? From everything I've read/heard and the reasons I joined NUPOC to begin with, I probably am going to stay in NUPOC for the time being and do at least one tour of duty. But I'm not ruling out grad school and the whole academic scene and one of my recruiters told me that NR looks better for that. I figure a few more years in NR after subs might prepare me more for grad school if I decide to do that. Or I could go to one of the Navy postgrad schools which I'm sure I could get into directly but that's another topic entirely.

By the way thanks for all your replies.

[mlslstephens]

You'll sacrifice one of the following to workout:


2.  Sleep
3.  Eating

Once again, Jason, right on target...and here is some advice if you find yourself finished with your workout or quals and an hour away from mid rats.  You will ask yourself, go to sleep or stay up for rats?

Here is my advice.  Go to sleep because...

You can dream about food but you can't eat sleep!   

On a serious note.  Forget the NR thing for now.  Go nuke subs, do your JO tour and be punished like the rest of us, and then go to Monterey for your Postgraduate degree (I majored in golf).  Of course the postgraduate thing will cost you a Dept Head tour then you have a real decision.  Stay in for the long haul, or get out and go commercial and if you still like the NR thing, check out the NRC.

...just my .02

X

[sippyCUP]

Sorry, I googled and didn't hit anything, but what's an o-ganger?

[Gamecock]

Once again, Jason, right on target...and here is some advice if you find yourself finished with your workout or quals and an hour away from mid rats.  You will ask yourself, go to sleep or stay up for rats?

Here is my advice.  Go to sleep because...

You can dream about food but you can't eat sleep!   

On a serious note.  Forget the NR thing for now.  Go nuke subs, do your JO tour and be punished like the rest of us, and then go to Monterey for your Postgraduate degree (I majored in golf).  Of course the postgraduate thing will cost you a Dept Head tour then you have a real decision.  Stay in for the long haul, or get out and go commercial and if you still like the NR thing, check out the NRC.

...just my .02

X

If you go SWO(N), then you can lateral transfer to EDO(N) without doing a DH ride, go to MIT for grad school instead of NPGS,
then apply to NR before you graduate. 

[sippyCUP]

Interesting, I'd have to get transfered to surface tho (I already declared subs) and I bet they wouldn't be fond of that decision. But I guess if I perform in OCS/power school/ etc it wouldn't be out of the question. Thanks for the info.