Rent a tech Union debate

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I didn't see the name of the woman you mentioned in the link you gave but I will agree that you are guessing with the conjecture in your post.  Lumping all unions into one group as far as behavior would be just as narrow-minded as blaming all the worlds ills on liberals & democrats or doing the same in regards to republicans. 

As a Union member I would be very ashamed if any of your allegations are true and I'm not so naive as to think that they aren't at least partially true.  However, just as I'm sure you wouldn't want to be labeled as a narrow-minded slacker by someone who has met one tech who fit that label I don't think the majority of Union members are deserving of the broad brush you've painted with once again. 

I've been privileged to meet many road techs over the years who were hard workers, knew their job and worked it with pride.  I've also known the same type of people from the construction trades and who were my co-workers that I can say the same about.  As long as people are involved you'll have good & bad and you can't necessarily tell who is which just by their political affiliation, union membership, or any other label you pick. 

Back on topic, have there been any further rumblings from any national Union towards the road tech community?  I don't think this issue is dead yet.  However, I will admit up front that my own views might taint my take on it.

[thenukeman]

I have worked outages and have to say I was impressed with the Union workers there.

I have worked DOE and have been impressed with about 50 percent of the workers.  The other half and the demoralization of the workers who want to do right is the reason I do not want an HP union permanently at any place or for that matter or any permanent worker union anywhere.  We are a global economy and we can no longer compete if slackers are protected,  I may even go for unions with no seniority.  The DOE slackers are the ones that have been there and know they can not be layed off. If they layed off slackers regardless of years that may lets us compete.  That goes for teacher unions too.  Fire the slackers no tenure.  Here is something else from theMaremont Union that was decertified.  Since this is a Reward poster written By the president of the Company with his name I think this covers fair use.

$25,000 REWARD
*The company is the sole and final arbiter of the determination as to any reward paid to any claimant.
To our Community:
We need your help. Last week the home of one our valued employees was
broken into, and extensively and savagely vandalized. This is yet another
offensive act that joins a long list of hideous misdeeds that have been
inflicted on our employees and our suppliers. We believe that this act of
violence is related to the Union Strike that took place earlier this year at
Maremont and was perpetrated by and condoned by Union Members.
These incidents have occurred in our community and surrounding
communities since the Machinists Union Local 2545 went out on strike
These incidents include:
• Shots fired by a sniper into a home with people sleeping in it.
• Suspicious fire at a home
• Barn burned to the ground by an arsonist
• Car burned and totally destroyed by an arsonist while parked at
an employee's home
• Truck burned and totally destroyed by an arsonist while parked at
an employee's home
• Extreme vandalism to a home
• Bomb threat at our plant
• Transformer at our plant shot out by a sniper
• Multiple vehicle windows shot out by a sniper
• And others too numerous to list
The people of Maremont do not plan to succumb to individuals who are
willing to assume they are above the law and above the rules of our
society; individuals who are thugs and hoodlums pretending to be good
citizens. We are committed to continuing to pursue all legal means to bring
the people responsible for these crimes to justice. We are working with
law enforcement agencies at the Federal, State, and Local levels to solve
these crimes. In order to assist the law enforcement agencies we are
offering a reward of $25,000* for information leading to the arrest and
conviction of those responsible for these serious incidents. To make a
confidential report, please call the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's
toll free tip line (800) TBI-FIND.
These continued acts of terrorism affect not only Maremont, our
employees, our suppliers, but their families, neighbors, and the community as
a whole. Our community cannot condone these rampant acts of violence.
People and companies looking to locate in this area are also watching this
situation and how it is handled before deciding if they will locate here.
This continued violence has given a black eye to the City and County of
Loudon, and the surrounding areas. We are asking for your help in assisting
the law enforcement agencies in finding the people who are causing the
problems and bringing them to justice.
Kenneth Banks
Owner of Maremont

[duke99301]

I: I
B: Block
E: every
W: Walkway
why not the OCAW?

[RP Instructor]

I too am of the belief that the only benefit a union will offer is to protect those that are lazy, incompetent, ignorant or all the above. One should have to compete and succeed based on their own merits and not be able to hide behind a union flag.

[illegalsmile]

I too am of the belief that the only benefit a union will offer is to protect those that are lazy, incompetent, ignorant or all the above. One should have to compete and succeed based on their own merits and not be able to hide behind a union flag.

Oh, a Union would probably offer reasonably priced Health Insurance a decent retirement plan and a few other good bennies, but you're right, it would probably serve to protect the no-loads as well as the good workers.

[Already Gone]

And how would that make anything even the slightest bit different from the way things are now?

[illegalsmile]

that would be the part about affordable health insurance and a decent retirement plan. the union people I know have these things, very few of the contract techs do.

[number41]

Maybe I should just butt-out of this one, but I'm not going to   I honestly believe that once upon a time, unions had their purpose.  But in modern day and times, they only serve to make the American work force uncompetitive, and largely allow small groups of people to line their pockets while taking advantage of their members. 

[alphadude]

i think you just described the american business model

[alphadude]

ok this dead horse is not stinking enuff

there are not enough rent a techs to support a national union. house techs have their unions or agreements of employment-dont compare them to rent a techs -  the 2000-3000 or so rent a techs dont make enough money to support a full time union and you have to keep the money flowing to make it work. in general unions are a business and have to operate like one.  they sign contracts just like any other business and have to deliver. they need money to operate and they need paid employees to run the business.

so which one of you renters is going to pay monthly dues to stay afloat in the union-most are addicted to unemployment and a few even hit the welfare line when hunger sets in.

if you want it-all you have to do is refuse work for one year- you will get the wage you want without the union.

as any great organizer knows it take guts and stamina to be in a union and make it work-i don't see that in most techs.

[duke99301]

ok lets all go to Vegas for a convention on feb 14-21 2008 .We can stay at the MGM and use the hall. We will set up a mebership drive and start this off. We can vote on officers  to be our voice and have  real union reps come vist us to help us  get started. enough talk.

[jdnuke]

New to the biz, trying to figure things out.
Found the Npua website, sounds strange.

Sounds like a secret society for only those in the know.  I wonder how many techs like me have no information.  There was an informational meeting, but no information on the website on who is running it, what they will do, etc.
What is there (as I understand all the information given), says that they will negotiate contracts with utilities and then charge a monthly "fee" for  having my resume submitted to the plants.  No guarantees that I will get into the place I want to work.  Sounds like what the contract companies are already doing without charging. 

What happens when there are too many techs, an not enough jobs?  I am still paying every month whether I work or not.  Seems pricy to me.  May get a small amount of pay raise when I work, but still pay when I don't (which when talking with more senior techs, may only be 4 to 5 months a year, if lucky).

I am trying to support a family, just like everyone else.  As there is no forum for asking questions on that website, I turn to the more experienced people on this site for straight forward answers (if there are any).  As I was told by folks who went through this same deal with the IBEW many years ago,  It sounds like the same deal, a few will profit from the many.

Just a simple tech trying to figure out the blitz that is coming this spring.

[alphadude]

There are more techs than jobs, they all dont want to work at one time so it is a feast and famine situation. (and one reason unions fail-too few workers with low motivation and seasonal demand) There are about 3000 techs total down from 5000 in the early 90s. At peak season there are about 1800 jobs goin on at one time for a period of about 8 weeks then it follows normal distribution. Dont get involved with any pay for work service. Call and keep calling the rent a tech companies. Get as many qualifications as you can other than nuclear. Dont depend on power plants to feed you cause its not steady work and every few years the plants cycle so that there are very few outages and only the "secret society of the RAT" get a job. In the very near future as plants come on line things will change some. But that is 5 years away.

[B.PRESGROVE]

I have a little question here,    Do we really want the next generation of nuke workers (remember these are our kids we're talkin about) to go to work and learn that as long as they stay with a union everything will be alright?  Or do we want to teach them that hard work and knowing your craft will always keep you employeed and getting paid. 

I agree that unions had thier place in history to bring about real change in the work environment, but those days are long gone.  We now have OSHA, EPA, ANSI, and a whole slew of organizations that ensure we are working in for the most part safe and good conditions.  Most folks on this site make 50,000 a year plus and alot make over 6 figs, so why do we want to unionize when we have it so well?  If you dont have insurance because you are a rent-a-tech then get some, remember you chose to work at that job its your responsibility.  Stop worrying about a union and just work, make your money and retire fat and happy.

Sorry for the rant.

[SloGlo]

watt plans due yinz think are in da pipeline fer creating new nuke workers iffen unions ain't used?  iffen da plants dat have dere col go according two schedule, da industry shud be looking fer about 4000 skilled nukleer grade workers in 10 years. where ya gonna git 'em?

[duke99301]

ARC is coming back and Rad Services ........... there will always be someone out of the navy who will wnat a job . I was Braidwood in 91 we had a FOB that faxed a copy of his 1st check back to his ship mates to prove he was making the money he said he was.
good luck to all. Stick with me and you make a grand a week! LOL

[UncaBuffalo]

watt plans due yinz think are in da pipeline fer creating new nuke workers iffen unions ain't used?  iffen da plants dat have dere col go according two schedule, da industry shud be looking fer about 4000 skilled nukleer grade workers in 10 years. where ya gonna git 'em?

I´ve heard about four new RP tech training programs firing up within the past two years...and since two of them are with 50 miles of the house, I assume there are more that I haven´t heard of.  I think we are going to see a glut of fresh bodies coming into the industry and driving wages back down.   Based on that I have advised acquaintances looking at the industry to get in now...or forget about it...

If a union is going to happen (and I´m not advocating one way or the other), I would think now is the time.

[B.PRESGROVE]

   alphadude I couldnt disagree with you more.  The socialist dogma that you are talking about maybe happening over in Europe, China and other parts of the world where there are no ways for the underclass to make it.  Here in America though I have yet to see any growing gap in income in all my years of livin.  I have seen prices go up because of the governments (all branches) nonsensical policies dealing with corn and ethanol. 

The nuclear industry has historically paid its workers (whether it be the owners, salaried, hourly) very well.  I have noticed that most folks are never satisfied with income and always think they should be paid what the guy above him is making (isnt that what the revolution in Russia was all about). 

This present administration has nothing to do with wages.  The owners of the power plants have everything to do with wages, and from what I can see if you get in work hard and prove yourself you can make a very comfortable life for yourself. 

[G-reg]

The policies of the last 8 years have taken away most middle class buying power, protection and rights and given the advantage to plant owners and the upper class.

Do you have a reference and supporting data for this information?  (Preferably from a neutral source.)

Here is an interesting (albeit heavily biased) website:
http://www.unionfacts.com/

- Greg

[duke99301]

So if you had a union package as in the craft. Would  per diem go away and travel pay?
Are you willing to give that up? Also Just because a plant may have a union how would this affect the rad Techs? As of right now I do not know of Company That Hires HPT's  that has signed and agreement to pay HPT's a union scale . It is not the power plants you deal with. It would be the company who hires HPT's. So where do you start to bargin with ?
and if there is 5000 HPT's how do you get all of them to agree to this?
I agree it would be nice but how do we get good packages? and how would you get to go to work? Call out list? go by rank what ?
It is like today you call for the plant you want to go to but it has been staffed for the spring since nov.Now you go to plant 'B" for 17 days and off untill aug.
Or a cleanup job comes so the hall says you go there. Do to the fact your name comes up on the list. how many hours do you need to work a year to get medical for the entire year? Retirement  how much go's into that. How Much if will the company match?

[G-reg]

So if you had a union package as in the craft. Would  per diem go away and travel pay?
Are you willing to give that up? Also Just because a plant may have a union how would this affect the rad Techs? As of right now I do not know of Company That Hires HPT's  that has signed and agreement to pay HPT's a union scale . It is not the power plants you deal with. It would be the company who hires HPT's. So where do you start to bargin with ?
and if there is 5000 HPT's how do you get all of them to agree to this?
I agree it would be nice but how do we get good packages? and how would you get to go to work? Call out list? go by rank what ?
It is like today you call for the plant you want to go to but it has been staffed for the spring since nov.Now you go to plant 'B" for 17 days and off untill aug.
Or a cleanup job comes so the hall says you go there. Do to the fact your name comes up on the list. how many hours do you need to work a year to get medical for the entire year? Retirement  how much go's into that. How Much if will the company match?

Additionally, how would employment openings & rosters work in the right-to-work states?  (It looks like Region 2 in particular has several plants in right-to-work states...)

- Greg

[Already Gone]

You guys just need to stick with the system you have.  Pay $900 - $100 a month for medical insurance for the half year that you are laid-off, and just over half that for the other half year.  Screw seniority and lists and all that crap, just keep getting job preference by being the site coordinator's drinking buddy or the one who called when an opening came up.  Keep screwing each other and convincing yourselves that the most and the best jobs are really going to the best techs.

All you guys who think that the HP tech business is going to reward you for being good at your job and faithful employees -- you keep dreaming.  The truth is that there are some companies who run that way.  The trick is in getting a job with them.

It is true that not everybody needs a union.  Unfortunately a lot of you do - even if you are a good tech and a hard worker.  It seems that there is no "up" for rent-a-techs other than "out".  Leave this squabble for those who are left behind.

[biloxoi blues]

Hey the same system works when you become a house person.   House people going from plant to plant keeping their supervision titles by knowing their drinking buddies.  Do ya think being a hardworking housetech gets rewarded?  Maybe by getting more tasks that the "senior" techs dont want.  Lets see if you are a new hardworking house tech ya still get what the seniority list gives you, backshift, working xmas, and taking your vacation after all the "seniors" have turn their requests in.  Im sure there is no "backstabbing" going on at your company.  If you think there isnt then you better keep "dreaming".  Just because your house (and a moderator) doesnt mean you can bad mouth the rent a techs. Nothing wrong being a housetech, but its not that great an accomplishment .   (it doesnt make you any smarter or better)

[Already Gone]

I'll take faulty assumptions for 800, Alex.

I haven't been a house HP for 10 years.  I have never been a union HP (unless you count the 3 outages at Salem/ Hope Creek).  Being nonunion wasn't the best thing we had going for us.  We worked for a utility that boldly admitted that they gave us good pay and benefits so that we would not join a union.  That is the same thing as admitting that the existence of unions was the only reason why we got what we did.  We had all the benefits of the union without having to be members.

I am not union now, and neither are my employees. 

We are the lucky ones.  We work for a company that values us.  So, being good, loyal, competent, and professional gets us all far better treatment than when we were roadie HP's.  However, those things are all valued by our customers and our company.  If we were just a bunch of warm bodies who could "sit at a control point, knitting a scarf" we'd be in the same swamp with all the others.

You are right, though.  Being a house tech or a moderator are not the things that make me smarter.  I eat a lot of tuna and salmon - brain food.

[Marlin]

You are right, though.  Being a house tech or a moderator are not the things that make me smarter.  I eat a lot of tuna and salmon - brain food.

Tsk Tsk all of that mercury...