Nuclear Contraband

[atomicarcheologist]

What I have a question about may not be considered by some to be contraband, but I am trying to avoid a quandry.  Most of the sites I am currently involved with have banned cameras.  All of the plants I used to go to banned them also.  I am currently looking at getting a new cell phone.  However, to get a non-camera model I have to tiers of choice, the bottom (entry) level or top of the line (Blackberry).  If I get a decent phone that will last and has items that I would like to have, it comes with a camera.  But I am not allowed to have a camera on site.  So my question is, how are you handling this situation?

[Charles U Farley]

Get the phone that you want and leave it in your car when you go to work. 

[Melrose]

You get paid to work, not talk on the phone.  Nothing can be that important that someone needs a cell at work.  In the case of an emergency, someone will reach you.
Leave the phone in the car.

[cbramsey]

My most recent plant, Wolf Creek, did not have a ban on phones with cameras. 

However, if Security caught you doing anything stupid such as taking pictures inside the fence, they would conficate the phone and look at what you took pictures of and then make a determination as to what to do to the unlucky owner.

Personally, I agree to leave the phone in the car.

[JessJen]

the v195 has blu\uetooth and works well its put out by motorola and takes a sim.  I have two phones one camera one non and just switch my tmobile sim between the two. 

[atomicarcheologist]

Leaving my phone in the car is not an option.  I use my phone for family, friends, associates, and work functions.  I use my phone as a way to keep in touch with the office on site, my franchise office, home office, as well as personal functions.  I carry phone numbers for people on site, not only so I can call them when I need too, but so I can screen the incoming call to verify that I want to talk or dodge the call.  I carry well over 100 contacts in the phone book, all nicely broken down in to files.  This makes it easy to call the bank to verify direct deposits.  So to leave it in the car is not an option.  It would be nice if it were, there would be less headaches that way.  But that is not realistic in my world. 
JessJen, that sounds interesting.  I need a simplification regarding the "sim".  The Bluetooth could be good, but I'd probably just waste it to high def my laptop.  Do you have two phones, two numbers or is there a way to switch between two phones on one number?

[JessJen]

a sim is a subscriber identity module....depending on your provider you may already have one.  Its a little postage stamp sized card that sits under your battery that tells your phone what number its suppose to use.  If your phone is on a GSM network then you use a sim. In order to switch phones you just take your battery out, pop the card out, then place it in the other phone.  Heres a Wiki on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module

The two most popular carriers with SIMs are Tmobile and Cingular.  Ive used my phone in europe thanks to the versatility of having a SIM.  I bought a prepaid card there and used it in my handset.  Sure I had an english number but saved me on international roaming! Virgin also has a SIM.  If you were to buy a phone online make sure its unlocked or you have someone that can unlock it for you.  I found those places easy enough to find in tampa or london for that matter but if youre in a rural area than you may have a problem so shop wisely on ebay or any website like price grabber.  I've always like the motorola phones currently I switch between a PEBL and the V195 and in the past I've also used the V300 whos newer equivalent is the V330. Those Razrs that are advertised  all the time are also a nice camera phone that has a model available that takes a sim.  If youre not on a carrier that takes a sim, there arent many options.  With sprint I had a phone that wasnt too shabby, it was a  sanyo....available in 5 different colors (i had brown) I dont recall the model number but still have it floating around somewhere so I can find it if you need it. 

Do note that Nextel does take a sim but its not your standard GSM technology from what I understand atleast.  Check with them if other phones are compatible before investing in a phone that wont work.  If anything you can still switch the card with other models provided by them but you may have to invest full price on a phone or find a nextel phone on ebay, craigslist, etc...

Hope this helps...Feel free to ask me anything else. 

[fueldryer]

Leaving my phone in the car is not an option.  I use my phone for family, friends, associates, and work functions.  I use my phone as a way to keep in touch with the office on site, my franchise office, home office, as well as personal functions.  I carry phone numbers for people on site, not only so I can call them when I need too, but so I can screen the incoming call to verify that I want to talk or dodge the call.  I carry well over 100 contacts in the phone book, all nicely broken down in to files.  This makes it easy to call the bank to verify direct deposits.  So to leave it in the car is not an option.  It would be nice if it were, there would be less headaches that way.  But that is not realistic in my world. 
JessJen, that sounds interesting.  I need a simplification regarding the "sim".  The Bluetooth could be good, but I'd probably just waste it to high def my laptop.  Do you have two phones, two numbers or is there a way to switch between two phones on one number?

How did we survive before the mighty cell phone?

[Charles U Farley]

Leaving my phone in the car is not an option.  I use my phone for family, friends, associates, and work functions.  I use my phone as a way to keep in touch with the office on site, my franchise office, home office, as well as personal functions.  I carry phone numbers for people on site, not only so I can call them when I need too, but so I can screen the incoming call to verify that I want to talk or dodge the call.  I carry well over 100 contacts in the phone book, all nicely broken down in to files.  This makes it easy to call the bank to verify direct deposits.  So to leave it in the car is not an option.  It would be nice if it were, there would be less headaches that way.  But that is not realistic in my world. 
JessJen, that sounds interesting.  I need a simplification regarding the "sim".  The Bluetooth could be good, but I'd probably just waste it to high def my laptop.  Do you have two phones, two numbers or is there a way to switch between two phones on one number?

If you need to call the office from on site, why don't you grab the phone from wherever you are on site?  Is your office the only one with a phone?

If you are that focused on the bank, perhaps you are in the wrong business.

If you choose to screen your calls, again, perhaps you are in the wrong business.

If you are in a position that is so critical that the company deems you need a cell phone, they probably would have issued you one.

If you need a phone 24/7 for convenience, I am sorry.  Security has never been convenient.

*edited because i lack typing skills*

[fueldryer]

If you need to call the office from on site, why don't you grab the phone from wherever you are on site?  Is your office the only one with a phone?

If you are that focused on the bank, perhaps you are in the wrong business.

If you choose to screen your calls, again, perhaps you are in the wrong business.

If you are in a position that is so critical that the company deems you need a cell phone, they probably would have issued you one.

If you need a phone 24/7 for convenience, I am sorry.  Security has never been convenient.

*edited because i lack typing skills*

Well said

[atomicarcheologist]

If you need to call the office from on site, why don't you grab the phone from wherever you are on site?  Is your office the only one with a phone?
Very few trenches, dirt piles, rubble filled trucks, etc. have phones connected to them[/color]
If you are that focused on the bank, perhaps you are in the wrong business.
I focus on the bank for 2 minutes a month.  Both times are payday and I am verifying the Direct Deposit of funds.  I usually do that while walking from the car to the site area.  I probably should do it earlier in the day, but I choose to make my coffee for the drive to work.  
If you choose to screen your calls, again, perhaps you are in the wrong business.
I screen calls to insure the person who feels my time is theirs is in the correct order of my day.  I realize it is selfish.  It is what it is
If you are in a position that is so critical that the company deems you need a cell phone, they probably would have issued you one.
They probably would have if they weren't cheap illegitimate children.  But they are and they didn't so I fund my own.  

If you need a phone 24/7 for convenience, I am sorry.  Security has never been convenient.I have no problem with security.  That is not the focus of the thread.  I am exploring technology present in this day that I may use for my own purposes.  If this is the best you can do to transfer your insecurity and failure complexes, I can send you some good self help books.
]*edited because i lack typing skills*

[atomicarcheologist]

Do note that Nextel does take a sim but its not your standard GSM technology from what I understand atleast.  Check with them if other phones are compatible before investing in a phone that wont work.  If anything you can still switch the card with other models provided by them but you may have to invest full price on a phone or find a nextel phone on ebay, craigslist, etc...

Hope this helps...Feel free to ask me anything else. 

JessJen,  Thank you very much!  Excellent help.  I think this will help me go in the right direction.  It's funny, I was just reading about the history of cell phone technology in this country in a magazine last week and the touched on the GSM thing.  It had it's start in Europe and, like you say Cingular, TMobile, and Nextel are the only US companies that use it.  Nextel's version is a propriatary approach and the maganzine said that it is not compatible in all aspects.  I didn't realize at the time that I was going to have such an appreciation of this tidbit of normally useless knowledge.  It would appear that it is time to kiss Verizon goodbye.  But not until after I beat them over the head with that magazine and your posts.   Who would have that that getting a new phone could be a blood sport?  Maybe I should contact ESPN for broadcast rights?  Anyway, thanks again for your assistance.  Here's a bit of karma for you well, if I could give you some I would.   

[Roll Tide]

The real question (I think) is how many companies still have obsolete rules regarding cameras? The resolution of a cell phone camera is unlikely to yield a photo that could be a security problem without a deliberate plan. Browns Ferry (TVA) decided it was easier to allow phones that have cameras than to prohibit something they weren't going to find in an entry search. I would hope other plants will make that same decision.

[alphadude]

cell phones are now in the 2 mega pixel range so its just a matter of time

[Charles U Farley]

The real question (I think) is how many companies still have obsolete rules regarding cameras? The resolution of a cell phone camera is unlikely to yield a photo that could be a security problem without a deliberate plan. Browns Ferry (TVA) decided it was easier to allow phones that have cameras than to prohibit something they weren't going to find in an entry search. I would hope other plants will make that same decision.

See now, I don't know if I agree.  I don't think such rules are obsolete.  I do agree that they should be amended as technology evolves. 

Case in point, I need to get a security pass for my iPod.  I would like to start running at work in the small gym we have.  Securitys concern is the iPod has a 30 gig hard drive.  I agree, that is a potential problem.  However, there is no way to import data onto it without have a computer program to do the interface.  The LAN that we have prohibits any software install and the terminals are locked in security enclosures preventing you from plugging anything (i.e. USB and such) into the computer.  There is no keypad or camera type input to the iPod.  So, my iPod is a problem because it is a portable harddrive, but it isn't really because I have no way of putting any data onto it.  See what I mean.

Phones aren't a problem.  Cameras are.  Like alphadude said, the photo quality is picking up quickly.  I feel that the resolution is getting good enough to be a problem.  The wife and I were talking about how her cell has better quality than the second digital camera we had.  Is that a security risk, of course.  You could snap a decent resolution photo of anything you had access to and either store it on the phone or immediately send it via PIX message or email.

The common denominator in any security risk is the person.  Someone has to attempt to take information out of an area that they should not.  Does that mean you are going to be a security risk simply because you have a camera on your phone?  No, of course not.  But I don't think it should be that easy to compromise the system. 

[alphadude]

not to mention the GPS that most phones have now. Coordinates only add to the problem. Besides, workers should focus on work not outside distractions such a phone calls in the middle of the day when that time belongs to the company.  Its like smoking, I remember smokers were always not around and seemed to be getting more breaks just because they smoked- seems cell phones have become somewhat addictive also.  Leave the phones at the gate-pictures, video, GPS coordinates, IR ports, RF emission, talking on my time,  calls in the middle of meetings, and so on.

[cbramsey]

I have to say I have experienced both ends of the security spectrum on this subject.

Earlier in this thread, I talked about how Wolf Creek did not ban cell phones with cameras.

Monday, I had a job interview with a company in the industry who shall remain nameless but have the market cornered on boiling water reactors.  Not only did they ban cell phones and PDAs that can take pictures (which I can understand), but I got to lock up my phone in their security facility and let them babysit it for me while I interviewed.

[atomicarcheologist]

My goodness!  Such valuable input from management and quasi-management types.  I find it quite humorous that so many think that phones are unimportant.  Yet this industry, in particular those Users and Guests on this site who are transient workers, thrives on communication.  Wherer would most people be without being in touch with others?  Is networking a non-nuclear term?  Not according to most HR departments and certainly not according to the headhunters that I find reaching out and touching me.  In regards to work phone usage, I agree that personal phone calls have no place in the work place.  That being said, since I am very seldom in a "nuclear plant" environment a cell phone is a primary method of communication.  I have worked sites where the laborers had at least one cell per crew, all foremen had at least one and supervisors carried multiple phones.  Those sites were a dream to work as you didn't have to stand around waiting for a skidbucket to show up and move a pile of dirt, or wonder where the electricians were that had to terminate the live buss box that was in the middle of the ceiling that was scheduled for demolition 10 minutes ago. 
I'm sorry if I didn't play nice.  I get a bit short fused when there are some yuk mucks yahooing around a serious discussion.  I apologize for my behavior on this thread.  I also warn you that it is worse in person.  Have a nice day, and again, I am sorry.

[Mike McFarlin]

Get the phone you want and leave it in the car, on charge.

[fueldryer]

A/A What did you do prior to cell phone's? How did you stay in touch with all these different people?

[darkmatter]

I had the same problem as Atomic Archeologist when my Star Tac finally bit the big one after 6 years of use. The site had banned camera phones and Sprint (my phone service) had few non-camera phone models available. I did find a sanyo model without the camera I went with. I do keep a digital camera in my vehicle for photo opportunity's (I'm hoping to sell a picture of bigfoot someday). I think that the Security ban on cameras is like closing the barn door after the horse has escaped, after all the site has dozens of cameras on site for use by everyone and anyone for ALARA and engineering etc. etc. etc. There are also plenty of satellite pics and misc internet pics of any site available if you look. When I mentioned my viewpoint to Security they responded in a most hostile tone and I felt they were checking my forehead for towel wrapping marks. The technology of cameras with miniature models and whatnot makes the idea of a camera ban somewhat stupid, its not the camera that should be banned but what a person does with it should be addressed.

[atomicarcheologist]

I don't have a problem with Security banning cameras, although I think ala darkmatter that it should be handled on the user end not the technology itself.  However, I can see where it is more simple to banish the technology except in a controlled matter, as the cameras in use on a site are used.  All I want to do is be able to use the technology available in a legitimate fashion.  It would appear that in order to accomplish this, I will have to go with one of the vendors who utilize the GMS technology.  Now that I have the information, it is an easy decision.  Procedural compliance is always the smart way to go on a customer's site, unless one is professionally versed in the procedures, protocols, dogma, and syntax of that which one wishes to violate.  I do not consider myself that in security matters, and obviously not in cell phone technology. 

In re: to tweaks about what was done prior to cell phones; let it be noted that I have sufficient age to remember how to communicate by screaming.  Everything else is an application of the proper tool for the job. 

[fueldryer]

Stop your whining and leave the phone in the car.You are a special breed if you need the damn phone that bad.Or maybe the rest of us aren't as important as you..Geeze...Whatever.

[atomicarcheologist]

Stop your whining and leave the phone in the car.You are a special breed if you need the damn phone that bad.Or maybe the rest of us aren't as important as you..Geeze...Whatever.

I am whining?  You are always doing the importance comparison thing.  However, I agree with one aspect of this post.  "Whatever."

In regards to your earlier post of what did I do before cell phones.  I used the pay phone on site, dialed area code 555 1212 and asked for the person's phone number.  Then I deposited another quarter and got connected.

A query for you.  What did you do before Direct Deposit?

[Charles U Farley]

What did you do before Direct Deposit?

Nothing.  I was in junior high 


As I button down my Flame Suit