How can I make my time in the Navy a good one?

[USCredZ350]

Hello everyone, this is my first time posting but I have been reading through all of the posts and I really appreciate everyone's input.  This website was a great idea and is packed with useful and intresting information.  A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this website.

Now on to my main questions.  Firstly, I am currently in the DEP program for the Navy.  I took the ASVAB and exempted the NFQT so I was offered the NF rating while at MEPS.  I feel like I've gotten a pretty good idea of what to expect while in the Navy as a Nuke and what each of the ratings entail (MM, EM, ET).  My question is what are some general do's and do not's while in basic/schools/fleet.  In other words, what are some things that will help me improve my rate as quick as possible.  I've heard that playing politics won't fly well in the Navy but at the same time I've heard that to get what you want, you have to play politics.  What are some definite no no's as a nuke?  I've also heard that nuke's catch hell in basic training and I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what to expect when I do head off to GL.

Another question I have is this.  I currently have two friends who just graduated from the USNA.  Will they be able to help me out if I ever run into any problems while in the fleet, even if they aren't in the same job field as myself?

Lastly, I've read about the pros and cons of being a Navy nuke but I'm the kind of person that would rather know the worst of the worst before I head out so I can come to expect the worst.  I've learned that if you expect the best, you can always get let down...but if you expect the worst, you'll never be let down.  Call it pessimistic, call it a skewed way of thinking, call it whatever you want, but it works for me and it's how I look at life.  So basically this question is what are some of the worst parts about being in the NF, whether it be as an MM, EM, ET surface or sub...because I obviously don't know what I will be until I go to basic.

Thanks again for all of the information you guys have put out.  It's definitely helping people like myself out with knowing what I've got myself into.  I'm definitly excited for November to roll around and even more so for the next 6 years of my life.  Have a great Navy day!

[JustinHEMI05]

To answer your topic's question, follow these simple rules;

Say yes/no sir/ma'am/chief.

Cut your hair.

Shave everyday.

Wash and press your uniform.

Follow those, and the military aspect of your career will be easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Good luck and thanks for your future service.

Welcome to nuke land!

Justin

[sovbob]

Here's Sovbob's Free Advice on How to Make Your Navy Experience a Good One(tm)

RTC (Recruit Training Command)
First of all, let me assure you that nowhere in the navy is anything like boot camp.  It's a world unto itself.  Tons of military bearing and very anal-retentive.  It's intended to be that way, because it's your first taste of military life.  Yes, nukes do catch a bit of flak. Pretty much everybody who has heard anything about nukes says the same thing.  "Yeah they're smart, but they have no common sense."  Just brush it off, they're jealous. 

You'll find that boot camp is very very simple.  It's been watered down so that even the dumbest box of rocks can comprehend how it works.  When I say "One" you put your right foot forward.  When I say "Two" you put your left foot forward.  You would be amazed how long it takes some people to grasp that concept.

In order to have the best possible time in boot camp, don't do anything to attract attention.  That generally means keep your head down, shut up, keep moving.  If your uniform is messed up, or you didn't shave that morning, you will most assuredly attract attention.

NNPTC (Naval Nuclear Power Training Command)
Here's where the real test begins.  There are a thousand different reasons why a person can have a bad experience at nuke school, but they generally fall into two major categories.  Academic and Military.

As far as academics is concerned, you will have a lot of information thrown at you.  If you fall behind, there's a good chance you'll never catch up.  Try to understand the information rather than just memorizing it.  Some people have been able to pass by brute-force memorization, but they tend to get lower scores and they have to work harder to pass tests.  Don't be afraid to ask for help.  Lots of people struggle (including myself) at nuke school.

As far as military discipline is concerned, you'll find that the requirements at NNPTC are relaxed compared to boot camp, but still have high standards.  It shouldn't be too hard.

But far more important, you will find students who get in trouble when they're not in school.  Underage drinking is a very big problem and you will read about students going to Captain's Mast all the time for it.  If you're underage, don't even think about it.  If you're of age, drink responsibly. And for God's sake don't supply it to the underage guys.

Students get in trouble a lot on T-track (the transition time between A-school and Power School), since they find they have a lot of time on their hands, especially if they're waiting for their security clearance which can sometimes take months.  Be vigilant, watch your back, and don't do anything stupid.  A lot of bright promising careers have been flushed down the toilet because "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

NPTU (Nuclear Power Training Unit)
Another hurdle that you must face, and a largely different animal.  NNPTC was full of academics and theory, but prototype is largely hands-on.  It's much less structured than NFAS and NPS.  Some people thrive in this environment, and some people don't.

At prototype, it definitely helps to make friends with the staff.  While the staff at NNPTC was strictly governed in how they can treat students, prototype staff have much more...discretion about how to treat students.  You'll find in general that the staff has a distaste for students (mostly borne of cynicism).

The absolute biggest no-no you can do at prototype is act cocky.  If you go in there acting like you know everything, you might think it's confidence but they might think it's arrogance.  And there is nothing that a prototype staff member likes to do more than chop the legs off an arrogant student.

At prototype, you get to choose how you spend your time.  Don't overstudy, and don't waste time.

Make friends, and don't piss off the staff.

THE FLEET
Well, if you've made it this far, you can pat yourself on the back.  Only about 50% of all nuclear applicants who start the training pipeline ever get this...oh...oh wait, I'm sorry.  I was thinking of the OLD navy nuke program.  These days the attrition rate is closer to 10%

So you made it this far.  Got your shiny brand-new NEC that tells the world (or at least the detailer) that you are a bona-fide nuke.  You are one cool guy.

Not so fast.  Once again, you're the FNG (f*ckin' new guy) and you've got to earn the respect of a whole new group of people.  Remember, every single person in your division has accomplished what you accomplished, so they won't be impressed by it.  And every non-nuke onboard still has that lingering grudge towards those of the nuclear persuasion.

When you first show up to your new command, first impressions are important.  The single most important aspect of your performance (for the first year onboard) will be the status of your qualifications.  If you're smart, dedicated, hard-charger, you'll impress the people you work with.  If not, you will quickly be crushed.

Like most things, you'll find there's varying levels of quality in all crew members onboard.  Try to associate yourself with the "dependable achievers" instead of the "sh*tbags".

With that in mind, here's a quote from another posting by 20 Years Gone and you would be wise to remember them, even if they don't all make sense to you right now:

Have him write down the following on a 3x5 card, stick in his wallet, and refer to them often as he progresses.

The 14 Nuclear Commandments
1.  Never allow yourself to go dink
2.  Never gundeck PMS
3.  Never backdoor your supervisor
4.  Never do anything that causes you to lose respect for yourself
5.  Never mess around with another sailors wife (or husband)
6.  Never sleep on watch
7.  Never believe your time/sleep/liberty is better than someone elses
8.  Never convince yourself there is too much stress
9.  Always make the best of liberty
10.  Always give officers their due respect
11.  Always, when you feel you're right, stick to your guns
12.  Always, when proven wrong, accept it and change
13.  Always give 100%
14.  Always remember your commitment is to your country.

P.S. About those USNA friends of yours, I wouldn't count on them having much influence over your career unless they're at least O-5, or personal friends with the officers in your chain of command.

[JustinHEMI05]

I just have to say that that is one of the best written and most well thought out posts I have seen in a long time. Spot on and well done!

Justin

[Harley Rider]

Sovbob,
That is spot on excellent advice.

[DLGN25]

The most difficult thing for me was the loss of my independence.  Not independence in the sense of a go it alone guy, but in my inability to choose what I wanted to do.  When I was going through the program, there was Vietnam.  I had high school buddies going there and getting killed or injured, and they all had stories.  In A school I passed the initial physicals for UDT, nope you are a nuke.  In what you now call NNPTC, I volunteered for PBR's, nope you are a nuke.  After about 2 years of training, I finally reported aboard Bainbridge late at night as an E-5.  I remember walking up the gangway, dropping my sea bag, and with no salute, I handed my orders to the OOD and said "Well, here I am", all the OOD had to say was, "Gees, another Nuke".   That did not bode well.

Anyway, it wasn't until I hit the four year mark, that I began to understand that I was contributing.  It was at this point when I was transferred to the conventional fleet where I learned the other side of the Navy (Operations, EW, etc).   What I finally came to understand is whether I was standing watch as an RO, or gauge glass watch on a steam generator (if they still have that), or the LPO for an OE division, everything I did, or did not do, impacted on the ability of the ship to function and carry out it's mission in a safe and efficient manner.  So now it was no longer about me, but about the the other 300 souls on the Decatur, or the 550 on Bainbridge, if I screwed up, they could die.  While I often did not like what I was doing, I did it to the best of my ability.

For me, it was all about attitude.  The sooner you understand you are an important part of the whole, the other BS matters less, and you will do well. 

Oh, and when you get to the fleet, seek out and get to know crewmen in divisions outside engineering.  There is more to the Navy then the Shim Switch.

[Preciousblue1965]

Well the one piece of advice that I can give you with regards to the fleet is work towards becoming the Work Center Supervisor.  It is a stressful job, with lots of paperwork, lots of BS, lots of headaches, and even more paperwork, but it is hands down one of the quickest ways to earn that magical EP on an eval and get to take your advancement tests a year early.  Also all the stuff you learn from dealing with the 3M system will help you on that advancement test, since there are going to be several questions dealing with the 3M system.  I made E6 right around 4 years because I got the WCS job, busted my arse, got the EP and knew quite a bit about the maintenance and QA system.  A fellow shipmate who was just as intelligent, but ended up getting the cushy job in RT, had to be CAPPED to E6 a full 3 cycles after me because she didn't know jack about 3M or QA.

[xforcehunter]

If you listen to and follow the advice given here.....then you'll be one good Sailor.  One last thing that I would add is this:  Your Naval career will be what you make of it.  If you constantly think about the bad stuff, then you won't have a good career.  If you remember that you are here to SERVE, then you'll be much more satisfied with your job!  Service never comes without sacrifice.  I've loved my time in the Navy because I looked forward to serving and not getting something out of it for myself (although I have received a lot from the Navy).  Good luck!

[USCredZ350]

Thanks a lot for you're input here guys, especially sovbob's post.  I know you can't tell me exactly how it will be for me but I really appreciate the things you have said so far.

[HockeyFan]

I've heard that playing politics won't fly well in the Navy but at the same time I've heard that to get what you want, you have to play politics. 

Politics is not an easy topic.  You will learn lessons as you gain experience.  Here are a few to start:

Don't bully subordinates.  Don't brown nose superiors.  Don't take credit for other's work.  You may get ahead, but at what cost?

Do network with other divisions and departments.  Be knowledgable, take on additional responsibility, and assist others.  Make friends and play nice.  Stand up for yourself.

All the advice prior to this reply is right on.  You won't have to worry too much in boot camp or school besides assimilating into the Navy, getting good grades, and staying out of trouble.  After that, your career is up to you.

Dave

[jowlman]

Since you've asked to know some of the worse things to expect, I'll add a few. Expect to have a worse watch rotation than the rest of the ship. Expect to have less liberty, you'll be there to start up the plant the day before leaving on deployment, you'll be there shutting down the plant after the rest of the ship is long gone. Though everyone will resent your making rate faster, no one hates nukes more than someone that washed out. Kind of like the person most against smoking is an ex-smoker. So be aware that they will most likely mess with you every chance that they get.

Thanks for your future service.

[USCredZ350]

In response the the previous post, you say that I will get messed with and I've come to expect that.  However, I was wondering about how bad it gets.  The reason I ask is because I am an overall level headed guy.  I'm 22 and I feel that I am very mature.  The thing is though, if someone is deliberatly heckling/pushing me I'm not afraid to stand up for myself. I'm not trying to sound like a bada$$ or anything in any way, but I refuse to let someone run all over me in a condescending way.  I understand I will have to take a lot of crap for being a nuke, and I am OK with that.  However, like I said, I refuse to let someone constantly harrass/disrespect me.  What will happen if a fight arrises?  Are both parties automatically repremanded?  I am in no way expecting or looking to get in a fight either.  I'm afraid by asking this, people will automatically assume that I've got the mentality that I will fight anybody at anytime, but I assure you I am not like that at all.  I would much rather the confrontation get resolved much sooner than fighting is necessary.  Also, if you're wondering, if I am involved in a fight and get my butt whooped, I'm not the kind of person thats gonna go run and tattle.  Thanks again!

[sovbob]

Well, first of all, this is not your father's navy.  For better or for worse, the culture has moved to a "kinder, gentler navy"

It's highly unlikely that you will get into a fight with another sailor (unless alcohol is involved, but that's another issue...)  Remember, at the end of the day, you're all playing on the same team.

But, like any organization, not everybody is going to get along.  Maybe the other guy doesn't like the fact that you snore.  Or maybe he resents the fact that you took the last blueberry muffin.  Or maybe he's just an asshole.

There's nothing wrong with standing up for yourself.  But be aware that some people deliberately bait people, looking to start something.  On a navy ship, busting each others' balls is part of the culture.  You will be subject to practical jokes.  I know it's not particularly on-topic, but I've got a great sea story for ya...

It was Monday morning, and I had left my jacket on the boat over the weekend.  I come in and find it waiting for me down in Engineroom Middle Level, covered in about 3 rolls of duct tape with a note kindly asking me to not leave my stuff in Maneuvering.  So, grumbling, I set about peeling the tape off my jacket and vowing to exact my revenge.

My opportunity came a few weeks later when the same guy who taped my jacket left his keys in maneuvering.  So six hours later, he comes in looking for his keys to go home for the day and finds a giant ball of duct tape waiting for him.

"Is that what I think it is?" he asks me, nervously.
"Maybe." I reply, hardly able to contain my obvious enjoyment of the situation.

And so he sets about carefully peeling off the strips of tape from the ball, until after half an hour, he gets to the center and finds...nothing.  It was just a ball of tape.

"Where are my keys?" he asks indignantly.
*Reaching into my pocket*  "Oh, you mean these keys?"

The point is that most of the crap you catch is just good-natured fun, or just general complaining.  You will soon recognize when somebody has a legitimate beef with you and when somebody's just messing with you.  (For as long as there have been nuclear submarines, there's been a rivalry between the f*ckin nukes and the stupid coners)

If you do have a real problem with them, then the navy uses something called the IRS (Informal Resolution System).  It basically says that interpersonal problems should be resolved at the lowest possible level.  If you can't solve your problems, then you should escalate it to your direct supervisor.  If it's still not resolved, escalate it again.

You will probably never get into a situation where an actual fistfight arises.  But if you do, you are more than likely to both be reprimanded (or worse) for it.

[USCredZ350]

Thanks again sovbob, you're replys are always a joy to read.  The story you gave had me cracking up haha, thats awesome.

[xforcehunter]

Ahhh....the joys of duct tape!  The best is when bored electricians start getting creative and make sculptures with tape!  I've seen some pretty impressive ones....baby seals, giant pack of smokes, an alarm clock....

[Gamecock]

Thanks again sovbob, you're replys are always a joy to read.  The story you gave had me cracking up haha, thats awesome.

If you want to read more sea stories......

become a Goldmember.......

for 10 cents a day, you can read lots more sea stories and also be given the awesome power of effecting other people's karma.

There is an entire Navy section in the Goldmember area.

Cheers,
GC
Sr. Mod

[IPREGEN]

Just like in AA, it's one day at a time,

Honest effort gets you through. No fooling, you should know what honest effort is, otherwise you are just shortchanging yourself.
Also when the time comes that you are feeling sorry for yourself remember that thousands of people have been through the program and they come out just fine. You can do it too.
And most important
Wear a condom, after a long time at sea you may feel the girl you are about to sleep with is "special", she isn't, wear a condom, and good God, don't marry her.

[USCredZ350]

hahaha yea I definatly wouldn't wanna wake up with a gift that keeps on giving.  Are the women in the Navy attractive?  Or do you only find them attractive after being on a boat for 6 months?

[HydroDave63]

hahaha yea I definatly wouldn't wanna wake up with a gift that keeps on giving.  Are the women in the Navy attractive?  Or do you only find them attractive after being on a boat for 6 months?

hands off the merchandise, shipper!! Your fellow crewmembers are there to do a job, not part of the Love Boat entertainment package. I'm pretty sure IPREGEN was referring to the  non-aquatic beauties that you may encounter during your enlistment.

[Fermi2]

hahaha yea I definatly wouldn't wanna wake up with a gift that keeps on giving.  Are the women in the Navy attractive?  Or do you only find them attractive after being on a boat for 6 months?

To be honest I wouldn't tread there. The women in the Navy are your fellow professionals and should be treated as such.

[USCredZ350]

ahhh my apologies! I was in no way implying that I would treat a woman in the navy any different than a man but I was thinking on more of a level that if the attraction were mutual.  This is twice in this topic that I've found my foot in my mouth.  I should work on my communication skills huh? haha  I wasn't even considering the "non-aquatic beauties" since from what I've gathered, I won't have much time going out anyways.  Sorry if I offended anyone!

[Fermi2]

No need to apologize, I wasn't offended, there are plenty who are more than willing to misinterpret anything you post and say. You don't want to get into a situation where you do someone believes something about you based on either your perceived attitude or actions then have something you posted inadvertantly confirm something you never meant to begin with. You seem like a good guy and I'd prefer you start your exciting new profession with a clean slate!

Mikey

[Harley Rider]

ahhh my apologies! I was in no way implying that I would treat a woman in the navy any different than a man but I was thinking on more of a level that if the attraction were mutual.  This is twice in this topic that I've found my foot in my mouth.  I should work on my communication skills huh? haha  I wasn't even considering the "non-aquatic beauties" since from what I've gathered, I won't have much time going out anyways.  Sorry if I offended anyone!

If you want to get your ass in a sling faster than you can say "honest Chief I was just playing around" mess with one of your fellow opposite gendered shipmates. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been involved in the process of drumming out of the Navy good Sailors because they could not keep their mouths shut, emotions under control, attitudes and behavior professional or their genitals in check. I have read your post carefully and you are ,for lack of a better term, cocky. That attitude will only bode well for you if you keep that within. The only one that needs to know you have a cocky, confident attitude is you. Be safe

[JustinHEMI05]

Until you are fully qualified that is, and if you are good. Cockiness is OK, in my book, once you earn it and prove it. Just don't let it get out of control. There is nothing wrong with being good and showing it.

Justin

[Fermi2]

It's not cocky if you can back it up