How valuable is qualifying EOOW as a member of the enlisted community?

[Rod Puller]

I sincerely apologize for posting this if the question has already been asked before but how valuable is it to qualify as EOOW for an ET1/SS that is already qualified EWS?  Does EOOW open doors that EWS wouldn't normally be able to open for you?  I understand that it can be point to distinguish yourself from someone else but will it allow me to be hired into an Instant-SRO program when EWS wouldn't?  This question specifically pertains to transitioning to commercial nuclear power.  Thank you very much in advance for your help.

[sovbob]

Here's what the NRC has to say on the matter
http://adamswebsearch2.nrc.gov/idmws/doccontent.dll?library=PU_ADAMS^PBNTAD01&ID=003937433

A nonlicensed applicant (an instant candidate) for a senior operator (SO) license should have three years of responsible nuclear power plant experience. A maximum of one year of responsible nuclear power plant experience may be fulfilled by academic or related technical training on a one-for-one basis. At least six months of the responsible nuclear power plant experience should be at the plant for which the instant candidate seeks a license and should not include any of the time spent in the control room as an extra person on shift. The education equivalence and the six months on site may also count toward the three years of responsible nuclear power plant experience. Applicants for an SO position who do not hold a bachelor's degree in engineering or the equivalent should have held an operator's license and should have been actively involved in the performance of licensed duties for at least one year or have at least two years of military experience in a position equivalent to a licensed reactor operator. Eligibility for equipment operators and non-degreed licensed operator instructors to sit for SO examinations will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

For many utilities, that means "qualified EWS and standing the watch for two years"

[Rod Puller]

I appreciate the prompt response.  I had actually read that excerpt prior to posting and was curious as to what most utility companies interpreted "equivalent to a licensed reactor operator" to mean.  Thank you for the clarification.  Is there no other distinction between EWS and EOOW within the commercial power community?

[Rod Puller]

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate the responses.  I've been instructing at prototype for about a year and a half and I've been presented with the choice between a day-staff job and qualifying EOOW.  My goal (and the primary reason for coming to prototype) was to qualify EOOW but my wife and I are expecting our second child in a couple of months and it would be nice to be home more to help out around the house.  If there truly isn't much of a distinction between the two qualifications then it sounds like it's an easy decision to make.

[Gamecock]

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate the responses.  I've been instructing at prototype for about a year and a half and I've been presented with the choice between a day-staff job and qualifying EOOW.  My goal (and the primary reason for coming to prototype) was to qualify EOOW but my wife and I are expecting our second child in a couple of months and it would be nice to be home more to help out around the house.  If there truly isn't much of a distinction between the two qualifications then it sounds like it's an easy decision to make.

Just my opinion.....(and this is coming from a lifer nuke officer)

Whatever choice increases the quality of life for you and your family should always be first priority.  Most of the  time, you don't get a choice.  Quals and accolades are nice, but when your career comes to an end, its your family that is going to be there.

Cheers,
GC

[co60slr]

My goal (and the primary reason for coming to prototype) was to qualify EOOW but my wife and I are expecting our second child in a couple of months and it would be nice to be home more to help out around the house.

My personal strategy has always been to take on any additional, extra, advanced challenges, which always reflected highly on Fitreps and later on resumes.  I believe the whole picture you want to paint is "give me a task and I'll do it 110%.  Nothing is too hard".   EOOW is one of those task demonstrations, as you seem to know from your own goal-setting.  Regardless, you likely still need to answer the question, "What did you do during your Prototype tour?" 

If you haven't done any college work yet, I'd vote for taking the dayshift job and working on that for my "personal growth" opportunity.  I'd even say that would be more important than qualifying EOOW, given your information presented.  I would not take the next 2-3 years off though and "coast" on dayshift.

Looking back on a 20+ nuclear career, I never passed up an opportunity to "do something extra".  When making that decision it was generally not clear to me what the payback would be down the road.  I never planned to do 20, let alone the highly unusual and challenging opportunities I was given in the Navy, and complained at times on my quality-of-life with the best of them!  However, opportunities to advance were presented, I took them, and had a fantastic journey through the NNPP.   In the end, I didn't have a problem arranging job interviews and had several offers with which to contemplate my 2nd nuclear career.  I believe that was because I had a resume that showed I never took the easy route.

So, the "EOOW: What's in it for me?" question that you present isn't easily answered.  Personally, I don't like the question in that you've been given an advanced opportunity than many of your peers will never have offered to them.  I wouldn't toss it aside too quickly and say "I don't need it to be a Commercial SRO".   So, what's in it for you?  It's the highest nuclear qualification you can achieve.   EWS does NOT equal EOOW.  While both are HIGHLY respected and the NRC acknowledges both qualifications for Direct SRO prereq, EOOW is an "extra step" on your resume.   

So, will not qualifying EOOW hurt you?  I don't think so.  I do know that it won't help you.

Congrats on the upcoming family addition!  Very admirable that you so thoughtfully consider your family in these hard decisions.   Good luck!

Co60

[Rod Puller]

Thanks again for all of the inputs.  I've received significantly more responses than I anticipated, all of which have given me a lot to reflect upon.  My wife and I agreed to come to prototype with the understanding that it wouldn't be easy and that the purpose was to qualify EOOW.  She has also been incredibly supportive in this decision process, even going so far as to suggest that it would be in our family's best interest for me to stay on crew and qualify as planned.  The dilemma I face now isn't so much one of personal preference, it's a matter of weighing my personal goals with my family's quality of life.  I recognize that I've been very selfish regarding my career development thus far (even if my wife won't acknowledge it), often choosing to work longer hours or spending more time at sea to demonstrate my commitment to the Navy lifestyle.  While this has allowed me to advance quickly in rank (or rate rather) and in qualifications it has taken its toll on my family.  This decision is a matter of me questioning whether the benefits of qualification outweigh the stress it will place upon my wife.  I left for my second deployment when my son was 9 days old and it has alway been something that I have regretted, in spite of not having a choice in the matter.  This situation I find myself in now on the surface appears to be very similar with the exception of me, now, actually having a say in the matter.  I don't yet have my degree and obtaining that is also a goal of mine, one that I would have a difficult (albeit not impossible) time doing on crew.  In addition, the day-staff job I'm being offered isn't exactly a "relax until you get out" type of job.  I would be (in essence) the RCLCPO of the plant, responsible for all Reactor Control personnel at my prototype.  It's a job that carries with it a certain amount of prestige, just not as much (or at least not in the same way) as qualifying EOOW.  I cautiously expect to make Chief next year (7 years, my first time up) since I have the evaluations and meet all the wickets necessary to do so.  Now I just wonder at what point I'll have done enough and if I'll regret not accomplishing all of my goals.  Throughout my career I've done everything I could to move up in responsibility and qualifications.  My question now is simply whether the burden on my family is worth the potential gain.  Thanks again to everyone that took the time to respond.  I truly appreciate all the great advice and information and the well-wishes regarding my family.

[DDMurray]

I went to sea for two months 2 days after my son was born and three days after my daughter was born.  It bothered me at the time, but at the end of my 24+ years in the navy, the things I regret were the times when I should have called it a day and went home or didn't make the most of the time when I was home.   I never did a NPTU tour or qualified EOOW so I don't understand why qualifying EOOW would cause more stress than a day shift job where you are responsible for more people.  My experience as day-shifter when I was EDMC during new-conn was that I worked more hours because I was involved in running the plant and in doing the myriad of admin requirements.  In my opinion, EOOW is more significant than EWS because of the increased responsibility.   A civilian SRO is closer to EOOW than EWS even though the NRC doesn't draw a large distinction between them.  BTW, if you make Chief will you go back to sea? 

[Gamecock]

  BTW, if you make Chief will you go back to sea? 

That's a great question. 

I always used to be bothered by the guys who took the chiefs exam and made chief who knew they were getting out anyway.  Those selfish guys took a billet away from some other deserving sailor, and left the fleet short of a CPO.

[DDMurray]

That's a great question. 

I always used to be bothered by the guys who took the chiefs exam and made chief who knew they were getting out anyway.  Those selfish guys took a billet away from some other deserving sailor, and left the fleet short of a CPO.

I think this is where the Navy's advancement system could use some tweaking.  I don't consider the guys selfish.  What is their alternative?  Refuse to take the test?  Fail the test on purpose?  I have never served at a command where someone who had no intentions of staying in, was not still expected to take advancement exams.

I think the Navy should have a process where if you accept advancement to E-7,8,9 you should have to agree to go to a follow-on tour of that pay-grade.  The selection boards would rank the candidates and have a line where they do not advance those below the line.  If somebody doesn't agree to accept the follow-on tour, then you go down the list. 

[Rod Puller]

I honestly hadn't made up my mind on that.  I know it may sound like a cop-out but I'll have to see how I like being one before I can answer that question.  My biggest concern is that I'll be doing the exact same job I did my last time out to sea.  I really value being challenged when I take on a task and have a tendency to become disinterested if that challenge doesn't exist.  It won't change my work ethic or the quality of my work but it will have a large impact on my job satisfaction.  My last four months on my boat were spent as LPO without a Chief.  I performed the tasks of a divisional chief successfully but I'm not foolish enough to believe that I have any idea what it's like to actually be a submarine chief.  If the time comes for me to put on anchors, I'll evaluate whether or not I should be doing the job.  If I feel like my heart isn't in it, then I'd be doing the my country and the Navy a disservice by staying in.

[MMM]

Try asking some of the sub chiefs about the difference between an LPO without a chief and being an LCPO. They might be able to give you some insights. Also, you can apply for LDO/CWO as well.

[Gamecock]

Also, you can apply for LDO/CWO as well.

Now that is some darn good advice.

[co60slr]

Now that is some darn good advice.

That's my line.   

[Rod Puller]

That's some very good advice but I'm not entirely certain that describing it is the same thing as experiencing it.  Regarding a transition to the commissioned side: I've considered it for a very long time.  Both of my commands have done their best to convince me to put in an officer package.  Thus far they have been unsuccessful.  My father retired after 29 years in the Navy as a Captain in the Intelligence community.  He was prior enlisted and has also pushed me towards the officer community.  Although  I'm actually still young enough to do STA-21, I'm not certain that officer community is for me.  I enjoy the hands on approach to personnel matters and equipment maintenance.  I like being regarded as the technical expert and the trusted "shipmate" (and I really don't mean that as a dirty word) of my division.  Above all else though, I love that I can communicate with my division and my watch team in a manner that only another member of the enlisted community can.  The satisfaction I get from developing my subordinates and coworkers both personally and professionally is something that would be difficult to give up.  This is one of the biggest draws to becoming a Chief.  I've worked with good Chiefs and bad Chiefs and I have never respected anyone more the Chiefs that are humble enough to acknowledge that they too have been in my shoes but are knowledgeable and caring enough to take the time to develop me into the sailor that I am today.  They have made me both a better Nuke and a better person.  Unfortunately, as a member of the fast attack community I have had little interaction with LDOs thus far (save for the occasional Naval Reactors visit).  Perhaps if I was more knowledgeable on their responsibilities I might garner more of an interest in their career path.  As it stands though, I understand that they traditionally do a JO tour on a carrier (...shudder...) and then branch off to their specific path.  Since (to the best of my knowledge) none of those paths entail the fast attack submarine community (other than shipyard work), I'm hesitant to pursue that route.  I mean no offense to any individuals in the surface or boomer community, I simply recognize that that isn't a lifestyle suited for me.

[Rod Puller]

I apologize for missing this earlier but to address your comment (DDMurray) about the stress levels of EOOW versus LCPO: the LCPO billet would be more stressful for me by a long shot.  However, the stress I'm concerned with isn't my own, it's my wife's.  Having a newborn in the house while still raising a 3 year-old with a husband working odd hours is going to be difficult to manage.  For her, it's a simple matter of scheduling.  With me working day hours and having weekends off I'll be better able to help around the house and give her the peace of mind of knowing when and where I'll be at any given point in the day.  With EOOW and staying on rotating shift work, she won't have that since I'll be in a perpetual state of sleep schedule adjustment and alternating shift cycles.  I'm sorry for the confusion and hope this provides a bit of clarification.

[co60slr]

I'm sorry for the confusing and hope this provides a bit of clarification.

You owe no one here anything.  We're just throwing questions/ideas to get you to think outside the box.   It sounds like you're grounded and know what is important to YOU.  Once you "burn the bridges", you can NOT take them back.

Besides, since your Dad is retired Intelligence...feel free to stop by for a beer tonight.  I'm sure you have my name, address, and social security number by now.   

for not wanting to go to a CVN.   

Co60

[Neutron Whisperer]

That's a great question. 

I always used to be bothered by the guys who took the chiefs exam and made chief who knew they were getting out anyway.  Those selfish guys took a billet away from some other deserving sailor, and left the fleet short of a CPO.

Misplaced logic.

[Rod Puller]

Thanks again for everyone's contributions to this thread.  You guys provided me with a tremendous amount of information and perspective regarding my qualification dilemma.  As an update, it seems as though this entire conundrum was unnecessary.  My input on the matter was never requested when the time came as needs of the command overrode personal or professional aspirations.  I was placed into EOOW qualifications and am now only a few short weeks away from a final watch and oral board.  I'm happy to say that this is the result that both my family and I desired.  Additionally, the time I've spent qualifying has provided me with the professional challenge I needed and the quality of life my wife deserved.  I've been given every opportunity to spend time with my wife, son, and new daughter while in qualifications.  I hope that everyone had a great holiday and will be enjoying a wonderful new year!

[USSMiamiElex]

That's a great question. 

I always used to be bothered by the guys who took the chiefs exam and made chief who knew they were getting out anyway.  Those selfish guys took a billet away from some other deserving sailor, and left the fleet short of a CPO.

They're as entitled as anyone else.  Maybe they'll go reserves.  Who knows? 

The fleet should feel happy they had those folks at all.  Just my two cents.