I need, a lot, of help.

[nuketarded]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

It sounds like you already know what you're going to do.  You were looking for a way out rather than a way through.  So, on the path that you are about to go down, you should know that you cannot bankrupt debts owed the government (you can see who wrote the bk law).  They will come and get it one way or another, even if it takes 20 years, which it sounds like it may.  You will simply not receive a tax refund in the future and I believe there is the potential for wage garnishment.  Doesn't sound like you need a credit score anyway.  

[NukeLDO]

Justin--I admire your ability not to engage in controversy, and I agree with everything you've had to say here.
But, as I've been reading this thread, felt that I had to speak up.  Alcoholism and the problems it brings are near and dear for me personally.
The guy has problems.  Most alcoholics do.  Usually those problems are the same problems everyone else has...life stuff.  But alcohol gets in the way of dealing with them...and it snowballs, amplifiying the problems.
At some point, every alcoholic probably does have a choice (although some people believe they are born alcoholic due to genetics and just have to pick up that first drink to activate the disease).  But in the end, there is no choice.  They drink because they have to, just to feel "normal."  They can't quit, even though they know what it is doing to them.  I've heard more than one alcoholic state they always felt they were a 6 pack shy of normal.
Talitore--unless you get help with the drinking, you won't have any of that stuff you want to spend time with.  That's not a guess, its a certainty.  There is no problem in life that getting drunk will make better.  Step up, put down the bottle, and ask for help from people qualified to give you the help you need.  Once the addiction is broken, you'll have a choice again.  Lots of good advice here from folks who have dealt with the Navy and DFAS, use it.  But you have to deal with your problem before any of that other stuff can work out.  Sucks, but that's the truth.  It ain't easy, but it gets easier.  Good luck and I wish you and yours the best.

[PapaBear765]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

Sounds like he doesn't need to hear anything more from anyone.  He's got it figured out.

And I don't buy the "alcoholism is a disease...they drink because they have to..."  bravo sierra.  It's an addiction.  The solution is to stop doing that act.  Done.  Will it suck?  Yes.  Will it be difficult?  Yes.  Will it be worth it?  Yes.  It's just that simple.  Someone in this guy's shoes has a hard time ahead of them, but it's only up to him as to what he's going to do about it.  It's only his choices that are going to determine how he'll end up.  He can either continue drinking, not get another job (if needed), continue to live beyond his means, etc. or he can take the advice already given.  Either way, I'm tired of him combating everything he's told as though the advice is absurd and we're all insane.

[Preciousblue1965]

Ok I have read all the bantering back and forth on this a figure I will toss in my two cents.

First, yes the guy has a problem.  Is it one he could have avoided. yes.  Are there some circumstances that aggrivated the situation. Yes.  Life threw him a hard curve and he dealt with it in a manner which was probably not the best way. 

Tailor- I really hope that you got the help you need with your problem.  As far as the money thing goes, yes it really sucks but if the government said they were goign to give you bonus money for re-upping and you did and they fell through, you would want your two years back or the money.  You know have a choice of what to do, you can work towards correcting the problem using some of the advice given here or you can give up and hope that it will all go away(it won't, like someone said you won't see an income tax return or any other money from the government which may include GI bill money and other benefits).  Bottom line is yes you are goign to have to sacrifice some things in order to make this right, now it is up to you what that is, whether it be your family time or material possesions or lifestyle items.  I wish you well and hope that things do work out for you.  Just don't expect anyone to blow smoke up your keister and tell you everything you want to hear because it just won't happen.

Depending on who you talk to, yes Alcoholism is both a disease and a choice.  It is the only disease that people will get angry at you for having.  You don't yell or berate someone for having Tourettes.  Alcoholics are addicts, however constant drinking does affect the body's normal chemistry over time.  As was told to us during several DAPA training sessions, alcoholism is the only addiction/disease that CAN KILL you if you quit cold turkey after heavy abuse.  I am not saying we should all hold Tailor's hand and tell him things are going to be fine and he should have to worry about paying back the money or what he should have done instead of spending it. Clear, honest facts about his options would probably be better.  It is up to him to decide what he needs to do based on what he considers the best course of action. 

[rlbinc]

You don't understand, I would rather spend what little time I might have left with my family. I would rather do that than worry about a damn credit score (which I understand the importance of, please no rants). I believe THAT is manning up. But please, correct me if my opinion is wrong.

I am seeing the help, and responding. Please stop with all the "he's trying to help" speechs.

I went through 50 years of life and 32 degrees to learn this...
Every solution to any man's problems involves work on himself. (Or building, as we call it.)
The ONE thing you were given control of by your creator - is you.
Without that ONE thing, you will remain poor (powerless), blind (foolish), and naked (disabled) - exactly as a newborn infant.
This building involves body (physical work), mind (making better choices in daily life), and spirit (visualizing the joy of the end result).
Mastering these - one becomes the creator of his own life. "As a man thinketh, so is he."

None of us can help you. You need to have this talk with the guy in the mirror.

Many of us have.

[PapaBear765]

The ONE thing you were given control of by your creator - is you.

N/A for some of us.

[Gamecock]

N/A for some of us.

It takes more faith to believe you came from some accident of nature then it does to believe in devine design.

[Camella Black]

I would like to educate a few of you on the truth of being an addicted to alcohol; not only do I hold a BA in Psychology and an AD in Human Services, I grew up the child of an alcoholic and I am the mother of a recovering addict.

No one chooses to be an alcoholic, while we may choose to take that first or second drink being addicted to alcohol or dependent on it is very different from having a big night out and over indulging.

I have read with dismay and disgust some of the responses on this thread. To say that I was ashamed of fellow members is putting it mildly. I have given much thought about what I should say and whether it would do any good.

While you don't have to feel sorry for an alcoholic or addict you should at least understand their plight. There are numerous diseases that people have that affect the way their body processes substances. Diabetes, gout, Crohns disease, Cushing Disease and many others affect people when they consume food, certain foods or the make it impossible for them to process certain enzymes.

Then you have diseases/disorders that affect the way in which someone's brain work; from AHAD to Autism, Depression, Anxiety Disorders, etc. People with this type of disease/disorder are affected by the way in which their brains process or produce chemicals or in the way in which they are "wired".

The American Psychological Association says this about Alcoholic Use Disorders:

"Problem drinking has multiple causes, with genetic, physiological, psychological and social factors all playing a role. Not every individual is equally affected by each cause. For some alcohol abusers, psychological traits such as impulsiveness, low self-esteem, and a need for approval prompt inappropriate drinking. Some individuals drink to cope with or "medicate" emotional problems. Social and environmental factors such as peer pressure and the easy availability of alcohol can play key roles. Poverty and physical or sexual abuse increase the odds of developing alcohol dependence.

Genetic factors make some people especially vulnerable to alcohol dependence. Contrary to myth, being able to "hold your liquor" means you're probably more at risk--not less--for alcohol problems. Yet a family history of alcohol problems doesn't mean that the children of those with alcohol problems will automatically grow up to have the same problems--nor does the absence of family drinking problems necessarily protect children from developing these problems.

Once people begin drinking excessively, the problem can perpetuate itself. Heavy drinking can cause physiological changes that make more drinking the only way to avoid discomfort. Individuals with alcohol dependence may drink partly to reduce or avoid withdrawal symptoms."

The gentleman that asked for help was getting his ducks in a row, manning up and taking responsibility for his actions by doing just that... inquiring where he needed to go for help in figuring out a problem in his life.

I commend him for that and hope that he continues to use our site as a source of information and for place to reach out to others.

Finally, I have always found that a true test of a person's character is not how we treat our neighbor, but how we treat the bum on the street, the stray dog and yes the drunk on the corner...

[shovelheadred]

...with all of these suggestions, I haven't seen the answer to his alcohol problem...or anyone with an addiction problem, which is Prayer, God and Faith..I know this will be deleted because I mentioned God, because it has been done before, but I am not afraid to mention my savior, I stayed drunk for 25 years, and did some other non-mentionables also..it wasn't until I let go, and let God, that I got sober....Tomorrow, July4th, 2008 will be my 10th sober 4th of July, not by Bud's doing, because if it was left to me, I would celebrate, but with God in charge...I don't have a problem anymore,,,,,so if any of you read this before it get's deleted, that's my opinion on the alcohol, and where to get help for it..or where I get my help..... as for the money well I am like alot of you, you need to man up,,,I will pray for you and your wife's situation, and recovery. Red

[nuketarded]

Hello, I have a few questions.

At my two year point, I did what a lot of Navy Nukes do, I star re-enlisted. I got an SRB in the amount of ~$48k.
That's about 19k up front, after taxes. Shortly after, 6 months maybe, I was discharged, Honorably, do to an Alcohol treatment, failure.

As I'm sure you've guesses, I got a check in the mail, for about 28,000, owed to the DoD. I'm guessing my initial bonus was added in there.

I am 22, husband, and father of one. I did pick up a decent job working at the county water plant, making about $20/hr.

My question is simple. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or not have to pay this exorbirant amount. They want it back in 3 years. Heh, needless to say, its not going to happen. If there are any resources or anything anyone can do to help, please, point me in the right direction.

I have not searched these forums for an answer to my question, I apologize if it has been answered before. I really don't have the time to look. Wife and I are working off hours of each other to prevent a babysitter.

Thanks in advanced.

Ummm.  Not sure what I missed.  I recognize there was a lot of debate about it but, I don't think he was asking for help with alcoholism.

[NukeLDO]

Thanks for your post Camella.  You very eloquently addressed what had been bothering me about the replies to this post, which was the reason I posted in the first place.  You managed to say it alot better than I did though.

[thenukeman]

All this I need a hug, is crap.  People need to man up or Woman up and look in the Mirror and make a choice.  I asked my wife to marry me.  She knew I drank some.    She had Alcoholics in her life.  She told me she would marry me on one condition.  That was I was not to have a drop of Alcohol in our house.   I agreed.    I ask about 1 Magarita everytime I go to a mexican restaurant and she agreed and said she would drive.  We have been married over ten years and I have not had one drop of Alcohol in the House, My Whole family  benefits from it, My 2 kids, and My wife.     

I say if Talitore needs a Hug and bad advice Goto Oprah.  If you want the straight Poop come here.  Do not drink the Koolaid that all I need is a hug to feel good  about myself, Alcoholism is a disease etc.  It is a choice.   If people disagree to bad. I made the choice, Wife or Alcohol and Wife worked out for me..    Iguess Talitore can make a choice too.  A good life or I am a sorry Alcoholic and it is  a disease and I want to make as many people miserable as possible with my sorry self.  Do not blame me it is the disease.  Give me   a damn Break.

[Camella Black]

WARNING

Any further b.s. directed this guys way and we will begin to delete posts. Not only has the lead moderator, Nuclear Nascar attempted to difuse this bomb but I attempted to educate some of you guys in a nice way. I spoke to M.R. yesterday and he said to delete off topic remarks. I decided to go a little easy, but enough is enough.

No one is out for a pity party and he didn't ask for it. This is not only a nuke worker, but an ex-Navy Nuke who simply asked a question, he didn't ask to be drug through the mud.

I have a few horror stories of my own I could tell, but this is not the place or the time.

[thenukeman]

There are more than one way to help someone, I think mine is best. You think yours is the best. but if you must censor and only leave your beliefs in go ahead.  I think that is called Censorship as Fueldryer says.  I did not drag this guy through the mud but I believe gave him sound advice that has worked for me.   

[DDMurray]

Talitore,
    Good Luck with your situation(s).  One other thing to remember is when you do your taxes, your SSN will be flagged as owing a debt to the government.  Any tax refund you are due will go towards your debt until it is paid off.  I know this doesn't help, but I thought you should know this.

Derek Murray

[fueldryer]

There are more than one way to help someone, I think mine is best. You think yours is the best. but if you must censor and only leave your beliefs in go ahead.  I think that is called Censorship as Fueldryer says.  I did not drag this guy through the mud but I believe gave him sound advice that has worked for me.   

I think everyone's advice/comments were acceptable,even BZ's.I also think that if someone posts a question,take what you get or don't post.I don't think there was any "BS" involved here.People were/are just being honest.

[thenukeman]

Your right Fuel Dryer. Karma + If you ask for help you should expect to get diffrent opinions.  You can choose what you believe, I believe Talitore as I have said has at least tried to take care of his financial obligation. I hope  he takes care of the rest and has a good life.  Regardless if he takes Camellas advice or mine or something in between.  But to be moderator and take off choices you do not like is not right in my opinion.

[G-reg]

I think everyone's advice/comments were acceptable,even BZ's.I also think that if someone posts a question,take what you get or don't post.I don't think there was any "BS" involved here.People were/are just being honest.

Indeed.  There's the help you want, and then there's the help you need.

One still has to swallow the medicine, even if it is a bitter pill.

That being said, I think that everybody would be well served to re-read Forum Rule #4, especially since this thread is in the open (non-GM) forum.

If one is a Goldmember, can't one say what they want to?  After all don't you pay for the privileedge??

Only in the the Gold-Member-Only forums.  This particular thread is open to the general public.

[fueldryer]

all good stuff but he didn't ask for help with an alcohol problem, just the money,...

I think (and I maybe wrong) that maybe the alcohol might have played a big role in his problem? Maybe he was asking for help without really asking?

[fueldryer]

maybe, but I'm not a psychoanalyst, just a linear thinking nuke, RTQ, ATQ,...

Thank god for that, we already have one of those here.

[nuketarded]

maybe, but I'm not a psychoanalyst, just a linear thinking nuke, RTQ, ATQ,...

I'm there with you.  He didn't actually say that he was an alcoholic.  Just that he failed a program and was discharged.  My friend was put in a program because he was scheduled for a dive physical and had spent too much time drinking and not enough sleeping the night before.  Therefore deemed alcoholic.  He "failed" the program because of his attitude ( 18 and arrogant ).  IMO he has never met the definition of, nor displayed any of the real symptoms of an addict .  Makes $250k today at 32 after no treatment.  Not a sea story, he's my best friend.  Yes it's a singular example.  Yes I understand that we are all different (not carbon copies, get it).

This thread has (had) lots of posturing because a hot-button was pushed.

On the topic of repaying the debt.  you will notice that the bill is for the gross amount.  The good news is..... all that you repay is tax deductable for that year under miscellaneous deduction ("repayment of certain debts owed the government").  It actually provide a "return" for me.  i was in a significantly higher tax bracket when I paid it back than when I paid taxes on it.

[justatech]

Talitore,
You're not in the best situation, however it can get better. First, I applaud you and your wife for working opposite hours to mitigate the exorbitant cost of day care. I also applaud her for continuing to work as long as she can with chemo treatments - that can be extremely difficult.

I only have a few suggestions. Number one on my list, sit down with your wife and decide how you can stream line your expenses - I'm sure you have done this as far as "extras" are concerned; i.e. movies, dinners pack lunches instead - no frilly coffee drinks etc. Now look at where you are living, can you move into a less expensive place for a period of 2 - 3 years? Do you need two vehicles for work or can you work out a system with one car and sharing rides - which would cut back on car payments, gas and insurance.

The next suggestion - consult a financial attorney to approach the military with what you can pay back in a reasonable time period - go low on the initial proposal and try to meet somewhere in the middle. The bottom line is they want their money - screwing you over to the point you are without a home and means to a job will not help their cause. They may state they want 500 a month with 3 or 4 % interest - doesn't mean you can afford it. Talk this over with the attorney. Myself - I would pay what I can logically afford with the interest - even if it was less than what was demanded - however I would pay the same amount each month to establish that I am paying an exact amount that I can afford. Yes, they will take what ever tax refund amount you receive until the debt is paid but it wasn't "in your pocket" to where you had to write a check. One way around this is let your wife file separately and claim the child on her taxes - check that out with the attorney. They should only be requesting money from your income - it's your debt - not your wife's, so protect her some way, which would pay for some expenses you incur with your child.

Hope this helps.

[Roll Tide]

Talitore,

At the risk of getting this fire blazing up again, I have another suggestion. See your congressman. Tell him you situation. Get his staff to help fill out the forms for the Waiver of Indebtedness.

I give people the benefit of the doubt. I assume you intended to complete your enlistment, but issues outside your control have prevented it. You are more worthy of the waiver than a former CNO received (for overpayment in a DITY move of his yacht). My prayers are with your family.

[LDO4CNO]

My question is simple. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or not have to pay this exorbirant amount. They want it back in 3 years. Heh, needless to say, its not going to happen. If there are any resources or anything anyone can do to help, please, point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advanced.

I have seen a couple of references here to "Dave Ramsey".  I want to give my DITTO's to the same.  Dave gives simple, excellent advice on finances and debt.  His way of attacking the "Debt Snowballs" works in such a way to allow you to see progress and feel good about yourself.  This Holiday weekend he has all of his books on sale at $10 each.   Take a look at his "Total Money Makeover" at   http://www.daveramsey.com/shop/_10_Books_DVDs_CDs_C122.cfm?UserID=32407743&jsessionid=4230de2fd0fb70467d32   This will undoubtedly be the best $10 you can spend right now.   I wish you luck.
JB
Buy his book, listen to his radio/ tv show and get "Gazelle Intense".

[Camella Black]

I should have made it clear that I spoke to Mike long before I ever made a post to this topic, and I spoke to Tom. In fact, some of us moderators often talk behind the scenes. I am quick to bounce my ideas and thoughts off of someone else.

I would like to remind everyone of two things: 1. This is NOT a goldmember area and 2. Off topic posts are deleted everday or at least they should be, this comes from the very top.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to share their story of how they dealt with an addiction, but to kick someone when they are down went a little far.

I don't support censorship and have been a victim of it as a news journalist/photographer. I would like say that I was asked to be a moderator and it was an honor. I quickly spoke up and joined the forces that are nukeworker.

Now you may not like my views, and you may not like my politics, but please judge me fairly and don't accuse me of being petty enough to delete something just because I don't agree with it... I find that offensive and to be honest, I'd much rather smite someone when I don't agree with them, it is so much more fun.