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What does the number after the rate mean?
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What does the number after the rate mean?

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Jul 22, 2014, 12:32 *
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Author Topic: What does the number after the rate mean?  (Read 5694 times)
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Styrofoam
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« on: Jul 21, 2010, 03:23 »

I've seen this with people who have already gone through school and I was wondering not only what the number means, but also where I can find more information about it. Also, does it have a proper name? That may help me find more info. Smiley

Example: What does the 2 in EM2 mean?

How are these numbers distributed and what would be the implications of getting a particular number?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: Jul 21, 2010, 07:03 by Styrofoam » Logged
DoorMatt
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 21, 2010, 03:42 »

The number represents Petty Officer 3rd/2nd/1st class (EM 3/2/1), and it becomes letters C = Chief; SC = Senior Chief; MC = Master Chief from E7-E9.
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« Reply #2 on: Jul 21, 2010, 03:45 »

So EM2 means the person is an E-2?
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Estis
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« Reply #3 on: Jul 21, 2010, 03:57 »

EM2 would be a Petty Officer - 2nd Class, which is an E-5
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sovbob
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 21, 2010, 04:26 »

The number represents Petty Officer 3rd/2nd/1st class (EM 3/2/1), and it becomes letters C = Chief; SC = Senior Chief; MC = Master Chief from E7-E9.

Actually, a senior chief is CS.  Master chief is CM.

So, for example a master chief boatswain's mate would be a BMCM.

The rate for a sailor rank E-1, E-2, or E-3 is dependent on which area of the navy they belong.

Engineering sailors have the rank of Fireman Recruit / Fireman Apprentice / Fireman. The firemen and firemen apprentices wear red stripes (aka "french fries") on their sleeves.  Electrician's Mates and Machinist's Mates are in this category.  So, for example, a machinist's mate fireman apprentice would be MMFA.

Admin / Tech / Medical sailors have the rank of Seaman Recruit / Seaman Apprentice / Seaman.  The seamen and seamen apprentices wear white stripes on their sleeves.  Electronics Technicians are in this category.  For example, an electronics technician seaman recruit would be an ETSR.

Aviation sailors have the rank of Airman Recruit / Airman Apprentice / Airman.  The airmen and airmen apprentices wear green stripes on their sleeves.  For example, an air traffic controller airman would be an ACAN.

When you ship out to boot camp as an E-3 nuke (but they haven't assigned you your particular rating yet) you will be an FN, Fireman.  If you are given ET, your rate will change to SN, Seaman.

Additionally, you will sometimes see warfare designators next to a person's rate.  The warfare designators are special qualifications that you can achieve.  Some examples are:

(SW) = Surface Warfare
(SS) = Submarine Warfare
(AW) = Aviation Warfare
(DV) = Diver
(SEAL) = Special Forces, SEa Air and Land
« Last Edit: Jul 21, 2010, 04:38 by sovbob » Logged

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Styrofoam
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« Reply #5 on: Jul 21, 2010, 06:12 »

Ok, so if you don't have a number after your rate, then you're E-3 or lower?
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sovbob
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« Reply #6 on: Jul 21, 2010, 08:18 »

Ok, so if you don't have a number after your rate, then you're E-3 or lower?

Not necessarily.  If they didn't put a number after the rating, then no information can be inferred about their pay grade.

For example, I could tell you I was an EM, but that only tells you that I'm an Electrician's Mate.  It doesn't tell you anything more.

If I told you I was an EM2, that means I'm a 2nd Class Petty Officer (that's an E-5, by the way) Electrician's Mate.

If I told you I was an EM2(SS), then you could infer I'm a 2nd Class Petty Officer Electrician's Mate, qualified submarine warfare.

Makes sense now?

If you don't have a rating yet (i.e. You haven't completed an 'A' school) then you would only be a SN (seaman) or FN (fireman).  You must have a rating in order to advance beyond E-3.
« Last Edit: Jul 21, 2010, 08:21 by sovbob » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: Jul 21, 2010, 08:23 »

Actually, (this can be confusing) your number is your rate.  The letters are your "rating."

For enlisted personnel there is no such thing as "rank".  Rank is for officers.  Your "rate" represents your position as "rank" would in the other services.  Every sailor from pay grade E-1 (Seaman Recruit) to E-9 (Master Chief Petty Officer) has a rate.

Once you become a Petty Officer (pay grade E-4 and above) you also must have a rating.  Your rating is your occupational specialty.  You can not become a Petty Officer without a rating.  A person in pay grade E-3 and below may or may not not have a rating.  Once he gets a rating, he is considered a "striker".  A striker is simply a "non-rated"  (E-3 and below) sailor who becomes qualified to work within a rating.

Normally, nukes do not have a rating as E-3 and below (unless you get busted or refuse promotion to E-4).  A nuke will be a non-rated E-3 (Seaman or Fireman) until completion of A school.  At that point, the sailor simultaneously becomes rated as an MM, EM, or ET and gets promoted to Petty Officer Third Class.

Anyway, your designation becomes a combination of your rate (rank) and your rating (specialty).
So, a Petty Officer Third Class (PO3) who is a Machinist's Mate (MM) is a Machinist's Mate Third Class (MM3).
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/rankrate.html

One small clarification from Sovbob's post:  Absolutely every recruit still in recruit training (boot camp), regardless of pay grade, is a Seaman Recruit.  Most enlisted sailors (well many if not most) enlist at a higher grade than E-1.  This means nothing during recruit training except that you will be paid according to your paygrade.  You won't wear any stripes or hold any higher position than the other pay grades during this time.  There will be Company Petty Officers in your Recruit Company.  They will wear insignia to represent their temporary authority among the other recruits, but their assignment is not related to pay grade.
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 22, 2010, 07:14 »

How about I just make it easy on you.  Read the following:

E-1 = Seaman/Fireman/Airman/Hospitalman/etc RECRUIT (SR/FR/AR/etc)

E-2 = Seaman/Fireman/Airman/etc APPRENTICE (SA/FA/AA/etc)

E-3 = Seaman/Fireman/Airman/etc   SN/FN/AN/etc
If a person has a "job description" or "rating" then it would preceed the above "rate" such as MMFA, ETSN, EMFR, etc

If a person does not have a "rating" then they are simply a SA, FN, FR, etc.

E-4 = Petty Officer Third Class which is designated by a 3 after their "job description" or "rating" such as MM3, EM3, ET3, etc

E-5 = Petty Officer Second Class(same as above for rating only using a 2 instead 3)

E-6 = Petty Officer First Class(Same as above for rating)

E-7 = Chief Petty Officer which is designated by a C after the rating such as MMC, EMC, ETC, etc

E-8 = Senior Chief Petty Officer is designated by a CS after the rating such as MMCS, EMCS, ETCS, etc

E-9 = Master Chief Petty Officer is designated by CM after the rating such as MMCM, EMCM, ETCM, etc

Also as stated above, you have Warfare designators after the ratings(yes you can have more than one).
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 22, 2010, 08:29 »

How about I just make it easy on you.  Read the following:

E-1 = Seaman/Fireman/Airman/Hospitalman/etc RECRUIT (SR/FR/AR/etc)

E-2 = Seaman/Fireman/Airman/etc APPRENTICE (SA/FA/AA/etc)

E-3 = Seaman/Fireman/Airman/etc   SN/FN/AN/etc
If a person has a "job description" or "rating" then it would preceed the above "rate" such as MMFA, ETSN, EMFR, etc

If a person does not have a "rating" then they are simply a SA, FN, FR, etc.

E-4 = Petty Officer Third Class which is designated by a 3 after their "job description" or "rating" such as MM3, EM3, ET3, etc

E-5 = Petty Officer Second Class(same as above for rating only using a 2 instead 3)

E-6 = Petty Officer First Class(Same as above for rating)

E-7 = Chief Petty Officer which is designated by a C after the rating such as MMC, EMC, ETC, etc

E-8 = Senior Chief Petty Officer is designated by a CS after the rating such as MMCS, EMCS, ETCS, etc

E-9 = Master Chief Petty Officer is designated by CM after the rating such as MMCM, EMCM, ETCM, etc

Also as stated above, you have Warfare designators after the ratings(yes you can have more than one).

May I also add, as it may help in field day situations, for example, that E-6s and below cannot walk on wet wax; they will leave footprints.  E-7s, on the otherhand, can walk on wet wax without leaving footprints; they have free reign to move about the ship at all times.  Moreover, E-8s cannot possibly leave footprints because they walk above wet wax.  And E-9s, well...the only wetwax they have to contend with is in the Goat Locker, and their feet is always stowed off the ground, resting on a coffee table or the back of an E-7 selectee.
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 22, 2010, 07:15 »

May I also add, as it may help in field day situations, for example, that E-6s and below cannot walk on wet wax; they will leave footprints.  E-7s, on the otherhand, can walk on wet wax without leaving footprints; they have free reign to move about the ship at all times.  Moreover, E-8s cannot possibly leave footprints because they walk above wet wax.  And E-9s, well...the only wetwax they have to contend with is in the Goat Locker, and their feet is always stowed off the ground, resting on a coffee table or the back of an E-7 selectee.

That is funny, I always though that E-9s didn't need to be on the ship becaused they were able to walk on water. 
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 23, 2010, 07:32 »

That is funny, I always thought that E-9s didn't need to be on the ship becaused they were able to walk on water. 

Hey,

I always thought that most E-9s should not only not be on the ships, but not in the Navy.  Whenever I asked them why they were working for half pay, they looked at me as if I were the nutty one.  I had an excuse; I was an E-8 with 13 years.  They, on the otherhand, with more than 20 years had already earned half of their base pay if they retired, which means they were working for the other half by staying in!  Now, who was the nutty one?  I guess that explains why they needed to keep the feet propped up, to keep the blood flowing to the brain.
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« Reply #12 on: Jul 23, 2010, 08:46 »

They, on the otherhand, with more than 20 years had already earned half of their base pay if they retired, which means they were working for the other half by staying in!  Now, who was the nutty one? 
I guess that E-9 who stayed for 30 and is collecting 75% Base Pay (with annual COLA increase) and perhaps not working at all at 50 years old.  Not to mention that after spending 30 years in the military, chances are that person is getting some percentage of VA Disability money.

I've had several "8 and out E-6s" that left 20 years ago telling me how stupid I was for staying in the Navy as long as I did.   I laugh and tell them how silly that DOD Program is for still giving me benefits (medical/dental) and you know...they're even still paying me each month.  The retirement benefits are NOT trivial!

Sorry to interrupt the Bluejacket Manual 101 training.  For extra credit, perhaps we need rating insignia and chevrons posted to be able to identify a ETSN or MCPON, if given the opportunity.   Then, perhaps we can compare/contrast the AF rank identification system just for fun.   Tongue
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