Advanced Degrees as a Nuke Officer

[irradiatedcougar]

Hi everyone! First and foremost, fantastic job on this forum, I stumbled across it today and have found it incredibly helpful!

Allow me to introduce myself before I get to my question. I'm currently a senior honors Physics student at the University of Minnesota - Morris. I'm in the application process for the Navy's NUPOC program. My application package has been submitted to Des Moines and we're just waiting on some medical documents to show up. Oh, and I need to retake my PRT's. (scheduled for tomorrow) I passed the sit-ups and the mile and a half run with ease, but got a little over zealous with the pushups and didn't do quite enough the first time around because I fatigued myself too quickly. I maintain a 3.95 GPA while working as a Resident Advisor as well as other leadership positions in various student organizations. I've done some student research over the past year and a half, including a little engineering-ish project involving designing/constructing a remote ultra-sonic rangefinder for scientific measurements on a Sweedish Glacier. I'm consistently well-demeanored and optismistic, have a mind for memorization, and I'm never afraid of hard work.

Now that you know a little more about me, to my question:

I was told it was possible to obtain your Master's and possibly even your Ph.D. while serving on active duty. I'm curious as to the truth behind this, especially for say, a Surface Nuke Officer? It was also hinted that some or all of the Nuclear Power School might be counted as graduate-level coursework by some universities. Again, is there truth behind this assertion?

Similarily, what are the alternatives and options behind the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterray?

Will obtaining an advanced degree take time away from service that might hamper a career in the Navy? Is it almost required to obtain one (or two, or three...) to remain competitive for advancement?

On the note of advancement, how do nuke officers fare (in general) for that promotion to Lieutenant Commander and beyond?

[Roll Tide]

Welcome!
The Navy strongly encourages Master's and PhD while on active duty. You can even be assigned to a university for your shore duty. Monterrey is a definite possibility.

As far as graduate-level credit, I doubt you will get it. You are discussing competitive programs, and non-traditional education credits are usually granted more at the less-competitive programs.

Obtaining an advanced degree is a good thing for advancement. And only nuke officers can become CO/XO of a carrier (they probably still send prospective CO/XO from the airwing to NNPS).

[Charles U Farley]

Ditto on what Roll Tide said.  I've only known one person to get her doctorate while active duty.  It was Astronomy, maybe astrology, whats the difference, really?  Serioulsy, she came through the Nuke pipeline as a full LT because of the time she spent in England getting her doctorate in Astrophysics.  Doctorates are rare.  It is more common to roll straight into a masters program out of college.  The navy will foot the bill, all you need to do is commit the time.  If you don't do it right after college, then after your JO sea tour, often your first shore tour is split with a stint as an ROTC commander, which you get your MS then, or a dedicated tour at Monterray.   

As far as the quality of education in the pipeline.  The navy manuals have the exact same information as many graduate level textbooks.  I've worked on some homework at home and tried to figure a problem or two out and then remembered that there is a similar article in one of the manuals at work, with a little better explaination IMO.  Funny, since the manuals at work are classified and my textbooks most definately are not. Despite the information being comparable, no college is going to give you graduate credit for you navy work.  I've chalked that up to money.  You have it, the college wants it.

You'll be promoted to LT so long as you have a pulse and can fog a mirror.  LCDR is a board that you will make it through unless you are totally broke.  I think that you are administratively separated if you fail to make LCDR after so much time.  Those wickets and rules are lost to me.  After LCDR, the competition gets severe.  A lot of officers retire as LCDR at 20.  O-gang promotion is all about your "window".  If you make it in your window, with your peer group, then you're good.  If it passes, then start looking at yourself and ask yourself why you missed it.  I'm not going to say never, but you'll never make it if your window passes.

Even NUPOC, don't you have an ROTC commander that you can talk to?  You should have a sponsor of some sort that their sole responsibility is to answer these questions.  They would have more intimate details and more current information than a bunch of Navy has beens (Roll Tide  ) and wannabe has beens (myself).  Good luck.

[Roll Tide]

a bunch of Navy has beens (Roll Tide  )

OUCH! Not disagreeing, but OUCH!

One more thought: I did have an XO on a Sub with a Doctorate. It certainly seemed to help his career, as he looked like he was bound for a bright future.

And yes, the NUPOC sponsor may actually be doing what you are considering (college credit while based at a university) and so could be very useful.

[Charles U Farley]

OUCH! Not disagreeing, but OUCH!

Hey! I said I'm a wannabe has been.  There was no malice in that statement directed at you.  Only respect and admiration 

[Roll Tide]

Hey! I said I'm a wannabe has been.  There was no malice in that statement directed at you.  Only respect and admiration 

No problem. Along the way to collecting 7 stars on my Sea Service Ribbon I grew some pretty thick skin.


The ROTC commander slot probably has potential for getting the degree (or at least making progress towards it).

[irradiatedcougar]

Awesome! Thanks so much for the replies! Definately some good and valuable information.

I don't have an ROTC commander, my school is comparatively tiny to most institutions (We have about 1600 undergrads) and is a very liberal school, so even the tiniest military presence on campus sets off a firestorm. It was almost amusing on Wednesday when the Chief I've been working with on the PRT portion of my application showed up to administer the test. I could tell some people were just really uncomfortable having sombody in a uniform anywhere on campus.

Ditto on what Roll Tide said.  I've only known one person to get her doctorate while active duty.  It was Astronomy, maybe astrology, whats the difference, really?  Serioulsy, she came through the Nuke pipeline as a full LT because of the time she spent in England getting her doctorate in Astrophysics.

Whats the difference!? Everything! As a former Astronomer/Astrophysicsts wanna-be, its bothersome when people would say "Tell me somthing about Astrology!" Astronomy is science, Astrology is fortune telling.

But, thats good to know that shore duties afford the opportunity to make progress/complete a Master's degree!

Anyone have any tips as to what to look for when signing a contract to make sure everything is there? I've been warned so much by virtually everyone that I really don't want to fall victim to not getting somthing in writing!

Thanks again!

[JsonD13]

I know your'e way up there in BFE (I had a friend who went there in 99), but they don't have you affiliate with the twin cities NROTC? I know they have one there.

Anyways, I'm on a carrier (in the yards), and most of our officers are getting their MS in Engineering Management from Old Dominion University.  Just a lil food for thought.

Jason

[irradiatedcougar]

Anyways, I'm on a carrier (in the yards), and most of our officers are getting their MS in Engineering Management from Old Dominion University.  Just a lil food for thought.

Perfect. All I need is the opportunity to make it work and I will, and it sounds like the Navy will definately offer me that opportunity.

The next step: my recruiter has me basically 'on call' incase we hear back about the June 19th interview date. So my suit is ready and I'm prepared to fly off to DC at a moments notice (Well, some sort of respectable notice) and I'm studying the NUPOC study guide like mad.

Thanks for all the comments and replies guys and gals!

[JohnParrJones]

IrradiatedCougar-
Nuclear Power Officers can receive credit for completion of power school good toward a Masters in Engineering Management at Old Dominion University (Norfolk, VA) or Catholic University (DC). The Old Dominion program can be completed via correspondance course the Catholic program has to be completed at the school (on shore tour). Each of the programs can be completed by taking 5-6 additional courses.

[landlubber]

Cougar,

Assuming you make it through the 4-star interview (tell Admiral Donald I said, "hi"), think very carefully about about whether you want to serve on subs or CVNs. In the submarine world, all of the line officers are nukes. Among SWOs, that is not true.

This makes SS officers' career paths somewhat simpler than SWO nukes. SWO nukes go to sea to qualify SWO before their nuclear training, but they will be limited in what jobs they can take on their first ship because they are nukes. Those limitations continue through their careers. I don't want to write a dissertation on the topic, but I strongly suggest you find as many sub and surface O-3 and above officers to talk to as you can.

Congratulations on your career choice, and thank you (in advance) for your service.

[LDO4CNO]

I would not lose any sleep worrying about the opportunity for a post grad degree.  There are ample opportunities for 1110/1120's to get a good quality grad degree courtesy of the Navy.  You will get offered a tour where the Nav will pick up the bill and send you to school full time.   All of that with a LT or LCDR paycheck....not bad.  Going to postgrad does not impact your career path.  One of my best friends in the 1110 community is working on his 3rd postgrad degree, is on the fast track and just screened XO. 

[Gamecock]

Welcome!
The Navy strongly encourages Master's and PhD while on active duty. You can even be assigned to a university for your shore duty. Monterrey is a definite possibility.

As far as graduate-level credit, I doubt you will get it. You are discussing competitive programs, and non-traditional education credits are usually granted more at the less-competitive programs.

Obtaining an advanced degree is a good thing for advancement. And only nuke officers can become CO/XO of a carrier (they probably still send prospective CO/XO from the airwing to NNPS).

Only aviators can command a carrier.  Its congressionally mandated that way as well.  They get selected for XO and then sent to nuke school as commanders (although I did teach a CAPT in one class). 

So, as a SWO(N), the best you can do is major command....which is a cruiser.

BTW...selection rate for SWO(N) to LCDR has been 100% for at least the last five years.

[subshooter]

I am a commander in the submarine force who was a NUPOC and went to Monterey for grad school.  I also was a community manager so I am familiar with all the options.  The posts so far on this subject have been right on.  I would not go to Monterey if I had to do it over again.  It was a good education and the quality of life was great.  However, the school arguably, really has no exposure or credibility outside the Navy and you should always keep your options open for follow-on civilian employment.  (7 of my peers were fired this year).  We send guys to MIT, Wharton, Harvard and other great schools and there are many ways to get there.  I also would not get an engineering degree.  Get an MBA.  PhD is worthless unless you plan to be a professor at the Academy or get out and do something with it.  Ultimately the Navy is about warfighting and not about obtaining degrees.  PM me with any questions. 

Mark

[mlslstephens]

  I would not go to Monterey if I had to do it over again.  It was a good education and the quality of life was great.  However, the school arguably, really has no exposure or credibility outside the Navy and you should always keep your options open for follow-on civilian employment. 
Mark

You wouldn't do Monterey again??? What? Who told you going to Monterey was for "education".  I was told it was for the golf.  Where else can you go, on the Navy's dime, and play Pebble Beach, Black Horse, Bayonet, Poppy Hills, Spanish Bay, Spyglass, Del Monte, Leguna Seca, and Carmel Valley GC just to name of few of my personal favorites? 
I have no idea if I'll ever use my Masters from Naval Postgrad, but I'll never regret the experience.  Best tour ever...just slightly better than NPTU. Ha!

NavLI4

[ranger2]

I worked with a shift eng at NPTU who took a follow-on shore tour to Monterey. His wife got a job at Pebble Beach. As a benefit of her employment, he could play one round at each of the afforementioned courses per month for free. Tough gig.