What if someone fails out of Power School?

[millerUSC]

What have they been doing with junior officers who flunk out of Power School, like the ones who honestly tried and put in ridiculous hours?  And have they had to pay their bonus back?

[JustinHEMI05]

I don't know if anyone can give more recent data, or if it even relates to failures in power school; but up until I left the Navy, officers that didn't make it through prototype got their pink slips and were sent packing. I don't know if they had to pay back any bonus. I don't know if that holds true right now. Its all manning. When I first showed up their they could go do other things.

If you are at NPS or know someone that is jeopardy of failing out, I would go ask or tell them to ask someone at NPS.

Justin

[illegalsmile]

I think they should send 'em to Bagdad and let 'em walk point for a year.

[Xhelix]

I was friends with a few people who failed out of Prototype.  Each of them struggled at the start and made it nearly to the end before it was obvious they just didn't have "the right stuff."  Don't get me wrong, they are great people but if you're putting in 40+ hours 3 weeks form comp and still failing tests they can't keep you.

As far as I know what happened is this:

1. They got de-nuked, but kept their rate and rank.  So my mechanic friends are now conventional E-4 mechanics.
2. None of them talked about having to repay their bonus, but I think that's because they hadn't gotten it yet (1/3 after NPS right?)

3. The ones I knew personally were all sub guys, so they went to Groton for sub school (where as a PO3 they were the same rank as the SLPO)

4.  Then to the Fleet.

I don't know if their contract changed at all (whether it was still for 6 or if it shifted to 4 because they didn't complete the pipeline.)

...reading your original post again you asked about officers... and my answer was for Enlisted.  Oh-well I'll post it anyways, just to give you an idea... I guess.   

[JustinHEMI05]

I was friends with a few people who failed out of Prototype.  Each of them struggled at the start and made it nearly to the end before it was obvious they just didn't have "the right stuff."  Don't get me wrong, they are great people but if you're putting in 40+ hours 3 weeks form comp and still failing tests they can't keep you.

As far as I know what happened is this:

1. They got de-nuked, but kept their rate and rank.  So my mechanic friends are now conventional E-4 mechanics.
2. None of them talked about having to repay their bonus, but I think that's because they hadn't gotten it yet (1/3 after NPS right?)

3. The ones I knew personally were all sub guys, so they went to Groton for sub school (where as a PO3 they were the same rank as the SLPO)

4.  Then to the Fleet.

I don't know if their contract changed at all (whether it was still for 6 or if it shifted to 4 because they didn't complete the pipeline.)

...reading your original post again you asked about officers... and my answer was for Enlisted.  Oh-well I'll post it anyways, just to give you an idea... I guess.   

He was was asking about officers. Enlisted never get the boot for failing a school. (OK Never isn't correct, but its mostly correct).

Justin

[cleonard19]

I don't know if their contract changed at all (whether it was still for 6 or if it shifted to 4 because they didn't complete the pipeline.)

"... If nuclear field class "A" School training is not completed, the member will be administratively reduced to E-1 or E-2 depending on the members time in rate and the date of dismissal. Upon acceptance of automatic advancement to pay grade E-4, the member will be obligated for 12-months of the two year extension, in addition to the four-year enlistment, regardless of whether or not advanced training is completed."

Verbatim from my contract. So if you fail out of A school, back to the stripes for you. If you fail out of power school, you keep E-4, but have to extend your contract for 12 months. If you graduate the pipeline, you have a six year enlistment still if you screw up and get de-nuked right out of prototype.

[thenukeman]

If you were a Nuclear Biological Chemical Officer in the Army and failed out you would get a loser Officer slot like Quartermaster Corp, IE toilet paper orderer, or Adjutant General Corp, IE paper pusher.  If you were Enlisted you would get a loser Military Occupation Speciality that a recruiter could not lie well enough to get people to be in it like Grave Registration or Material handling Specialist, IE loading and unloading Trucks, Planes, Ships etc.  The funniest was when I was an Executive Officer of a NBC training unit.  The First Sergeant had a private that failed a test.  He told him in front of everyone in formation that if he fails again that he would be grave registration.  Of course he failed again and by the way did not get a bonus.  I told First Sergeant I can not just make him Grave Registration it has to go through Student Military Personnel.  He said Lieutenant I have faith in you he will be grave registration.  I called Student Military Personnel and ask that this private be made Grave Registration as an example so less people would fail.  He agreed. I got the privates orders for grave registration.  First Sargeant got a cut up chicken and explained how grave registration works, He called the private forward and when he stood in front of First Sargeant the Sargeant went boom and threw the chicken in the air and pieces landed everywhere.  He told the private this was his first training as grave registration and to pick up the chicken in the plastic bag he provided.  This was done.  First Sarge then ask who else wants to fail and be Grave Registration just raise your hand.   Of course no one raised their hand.  I suspect for the Navy Nuclear Officers it would be the same,  If you fail does not mean you can not do something else, especially if you are an officer with a degree in something other than basket weaving.  But of course there are basket cases that I guess would have to be thrown out like a weed smoking officer.  We had A NBC Officer that was a Friend of mine and I had to be told not to associate with him.  For a year he rode a garbage truck with privates that were being punished cleaning up trash on the base.  He was not allowed at the O club and no Officer was to speak to him except to tell him to ride the garbage truck.

[JustinHEMI05]

If you were a Nuclear Biological Chemical Officer in the Army and failed out you would get a loser Officer slot like Quartermaster Corp, IE toilet paper orderer, or Adjutant General Corp, IE paper pusher.  If you were Enlisted you would get a loser Military Occupation Speciality that a recruiter could not lie well enough to get people to be in it like Grave Registration or Material handling Specialist, IE loading and unloading Trucks, Planes, Ships etc.  The funniest was when I was an Executive Officer of a NBC training unit.  The First Sergeant had a private that failed a test.  He told him in front of everyone in formation that if he fails again that he would be grave registration.  Of course he failed again and by the way did not get a bonus.  I told First Sergeant I can not just make him Grave Registration it has to go through Student Military Personnel.  He said Lieutenant I have faith in you he will be grave registration.  I called Student Military Personnel and ask that this private be made Grave Registration as an example so less people would fail.  He agreed. I got the privates orders for grave registration.  First Sargeant got a cut up chicken and explained how grave registration works, He called the private forward and when he stood in front of First Sargeant the Sargeant went boom and threw the chicken in the air and pieces landed everywhere.  He told the private this was his first training as grave registration and to pick up the chicken in the plastic bag he provided.  This was done.  First Sarge then ask who else wants to fail and be Grave Registration just raise your hand.   Of course no one raised their hand.  I suspect for the Navy Nuclear Officers it would be the same,  If you fail does not mean you can not do something else, especially if you are an officer with a degree in something other than basket weaving.  But of course there are basket cases that I guess would have to be thrown out like a weed smoking officer.  We had A NBC Officer that was a Friend of mine and I had to be told not to associate with him.  For a year he rode a garbage truck with privates that were being punished cleaning up trash on the base.  He was not allowed at the O club and no Officer was to speak to him except to tell him to ride the garbage truck.

You are normally right, except up until june (when I left) they were being kicked out.

Justin

[jay121]

I was friends with a few people who failed out of Prototype.  Each of them struggled at the start and made it nearly to the end before it was obvious they just didn't have "the right stuff."  Don't get me wrong, they are great people but if you're putting in 40+ hours 3 weeks form comp and still failing tests they can't keep you.

As far as I know what happened is this:

1. They got de-nuked, but kept their rate and rank.  So my mechanic friends are now conventional E-4 mechanics.
2. None of them talked about having to repay their bonus, but I think that's because they hadn't gotten it yet (1/3 after NPS right?)

3. The ones I knew personally were all sub guys, so they went to Groton for sub school (where as a PO3 they were the same rank as the SLPO)

4.  Then to the Fleet.

I don't know if their contract changed at all (whether it was still for 6 or if it shifted to 4 because they didn't complete the pipeline.)

...reading your original post again you asked about officers... and my answer was for Enlisted.  Oh-well I'll post it anyways, just to give you an idea... I guess.   

There are tons of these at Great Lakes and Corry Station; lots of power school drop outs, mostly MMs and ETs.  I once knew a girl who failed MM "A" nuke A school and got reclassed to IT; she kept the FN rank, however (she wasn't downgraded to FR or FA).

And of course! Actual nukes who lost their security clearance due to insanity (yes, I had a boyfriend, a nuke ET2, who's going through this right now).  So,  they are forced to cross rate if discharge is not an option because their lives nor the lives or others are in danger.  Is kinda sad, however.  He thinks he's going to be a CTT2 or an IT2 (ratings where TS/SCI tend to be required for most personnel).  Actually, he'll be lucky if he gets CS2 or BM2. 

[spekkio]

If you were a Nuclear Biological Chemical Officer in the Army and failed out you would get a loser Officer slot like Quartermaster Corp, IE toilet paper orderer, or Adjutant General Corp, IE paper pusher.  If you were Enlisted you would get a loser Military Occupation Speciality that a recruiter could not lie well enough to get people to be in it like Grave Registration or Material handling Specialist, IE loading and unloading Trucks, Planes, Ships etc.  The funniest was when I was an Executive Officer of a NBC training unit.  The First Sergeant had a private that failed a test.  He told him in front of everyone in formation that if he fails again that he would be grave registration.  Of course he failed again and by the way did not get a bonus.  I told First Sergeant I can not just make him Grave Registration it has to go through Student Military Personnel.  He said Lieutenant I have faith in you he will be grave registration.  I called Student Military Personnel and ask that this private be made Grave Registration as an example so less people would fail.  He agreed. I got the privates orders for grave registration.  First Sargeant got a cut up chicken and explained how grave registration works, He called the private forward and when he stood in front of First Sargeant the Sargeant went boom and threw the chicken in the air and pieces landed everywhere.  He told the private this was his first training as grave registration and to pick up the chicken in the plastic bag he provided.  This was done.  First Sarge then ask who else wants to fail and be Grave Registration just raise your hand.   Of course no one raised their hand. I suspect for the Navy Nuclear Officers it would be the same,  If you fail does not mean you can not do something else, especially if you are an officer with a degree in something other than basket weaving.  But of course there are basket cases that I guess would have to be thrown out like a weed smoking officer.  We had A NBC Officer that was a Friend of mine and I had to be told not to associate with him.  For a year he rode a garbage truck with privates that were being punished cleaning up trash on the base.  He was not allowed at the O club and no Officer was to speak to him except to tell him to ride the garbage truck.

You suspect wrong. If you fail, you put in a lateral xfer package for another community or say your goodbye to the Navy (sometimes, you are forced to choose the latter). If the other community needs people, then you get to stay. If not, then you leave.

I know power school failures who have gone Intel, SWO, and pilot and have succeeded. I know of one pilot in particular who failed power school on purpose because he was 'drafted' into the pipeline out of NROTC. In the interim they mustered once every 4 days to say hey, I'm still in the area.

PS: Bonus is kept unless you DOR, and even then it's not 100% guaranteed to be lost.