go nuke for a degree

[skyfox428]

I am currently in DEP enlisted in AECF. I just recently took and passed the NFQT and was wondering if going nuke would help me get closer to attaining a degree in electrical engineering or would staying AECF

[taterhead]

In my experience (with my own degree), the only credit I received from my university for naval schooling was elective, non-core.

YMMV, all schools are different and assign different credits.  I had a SOC agreement, so my school was fairly liberal about awarding credit based on naval schooling.

A couple of schools cater to nukes and will award a BSNST after you complete the pipeline plus a couple of other classes (not sure which ones, Calculus and Composition for sure).

[gman82]

I'm not in the Navy, but I think it would definitely help your dreams of a degree (yet maybe not right away) in either job. I'm in the same boat you are skyfox, so I was wondering about AECF or Nuke myself, from what I've learned nuke can be very demanding and having gotten a little electronics degree myself I think that AECF might be more intensive into the low voltage electronics (ie. radar systems, missile guidance, computer hardware, etc). There is the ET-Electronics Technician rate in the nuke program but your not guaranteed to get it (you might end up an MM which is a lot of mechanical stuff, or EM which is better but more high voltage). it depends on what you see youself working on as an engineer. But the navy in general is good for your education, they have the GI bill which is like a 38K grant you get for investing about 12 hundred in one year, then theres TA which helps with ur tuition while ur enlisted, and then there's the LRP which would pay off student loans from before the navy (up to like 65K i think but you cant get an enlistment bonus, it's either or). And then there'e navy training which may or may not offer college credit but it's still good skills learned that look good on ur resume.

On a side note, does anyone out there have info on the AEF-AECF program? or maybe a site like this that could help, I think me and skyfox need more info on that side of our options in the navy

Thanks,
Steve

[93-383]

Honestly if you want a ABET accreditied degree so that you can get you PE license neither is a good option. You will get verry few upper division credits from a ABET acredited college. So the best option for getting a electrical engineering degree (or any real engineering degree for that matter) enlist in the Navy in some BS job but rated so that you will have time to work on college credits. BM, PS, SK, or YN come to mind try to find one with the college fund and then got your GI bill and the plus up (see VA website for info). You could have more than enought time in some joke of a rating to take classes on the TA program do only a four your stent and then enroll full time in college for next to nothing with the GI bill and college fund.

Nuclear power can give you a easy degree like my Thomas Edison BSAST in Nuclear Engineering Tech. It's not much of a degree but it is a degree.

[Loffy Muffin]

Ditto the above.  You will have little time to pursue an education while being a nuke.  The air farce is the best branch for this, as you will be assigned to a base and the Farce duty is usually the least demanding.  Get a Cali base close to a CC, take classes while at the base, get an AS degree at the end of 4 years, get out of the AF; and get an automatic acceptance to UCLA, Berekely, etc if you maintain a high GPA.  (check on this, it might have changed.  State schools used to grant auto acceptance if you had a high GPA at a state CC).  Finish your EE degree in two years at UCLA basically debt free after 6 years while the Nukes are just getting out of their enlistment with 4-5 years of school ahead of them for a EE.

See how easy that was?  AF = EE degree from UCLA, Navy = NEC code.  Just saved you 100k's, bro.

[93-383]

Ditto the above.  You will have little time to pursue an education while being a nuke.  The air farce is the best branch for this, as you will be assigned to a base and the Farce duty is usually the least demanding.  Get a Cali base close to a CC, take classes while at the base, get an AS degree at the end of 4 years, get out of the AF; and get an automatic acceptance to UCLA, Berekely, etc if you maintain a high GPA.  (check on this, it might have changed.  State schools used to grant auto acceptance if you had a high GPA at a state CC).  Finish your EE degree in two years at UCLA basically debt free after 6 years while the Nukes are just getting out of their enlistment with 4-5 years of school ahead of them for a EE.

See how easy that was?  AF = EE degree from UCLA, Navy = NEC code.  Just saved you 100k's, bro.

Even better I didn't think about the Air Farce when I made my post. The only thing that would be a little bit better in the Navy is PACE corses for your gen-ed reqs However I think you need a big deck for that (CVN or anfib)

[ddklbl]

Even better I didn't think about the Air Farce when I made my post. The only thing that would be a little bit better in the Navy is PACE corses for your gen-ed reqs However I think you need a big deck for that (CVN or anfib)

PACE courses are offered on subs, you just need to be mindful of deployment dates vs. class dates to mail your stuff in. 

Listen, the big thing about college is what are your objectives?  I am assuming that going to college now, instead of enlisting, is not a viable option for you.  If you enlist and want to check the box, then any of the degree programs from Navy College will do that.  If you want the education, then any formal school from the navy will give you that.  So, again, what is it that you want?

With respect to the box checking, people are quick to discredit the toilet paper degrees (I myself have the TESC BS) but the only people that denigrate those degree programs are us.  Me and a friend got the same job offer, we both had identical credentials except I had the degree.  My salary offer was $8k more.  That was one job offer from one company.  Read into what you want.  Box checked sat.

With respect to the educational benefits of the toilet paper degrees, you reap what you sow.  If you go into the program with a defeatist attitude, then what do you really expect?  Every degree program offered through the Navy College is from a regionally accredited school.  Couple that with satisfactory scores on the GRE then you have your ticket to almost any grad school program you could want.  I am proof that anyone who tells you different is lying.  Again, you reap what you sow.

Once more, assuming going to college now as a civilian is not an option and if your interests educationally are in EE, then stay in the AECF.  Nuke ET is not a guarantee and, frankly, once qualified electronics become a collateral duty only to be regurgitated on an advancement exam.  AECF will give you the operational experience to see if this is what you really want out of life.  And if you are a nutjob like me, and want to know the fundamental math and theory behind what you've been doing for the last 4 to 6 years, make your toilet paper degree worth something and go get a MSEE.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I am currently in DEP enlisted in AECF. I just recently took and passed the NFQT and was wondering if going nuke would help me get closer to attaining a degree in electrical engineering or would staying AECF

I want to put this out... I applied to a college after prototype over my leave period.... WITHOUT transcripts and only my completion of the NNPP, I was automatically admitted. I will be taking internet classes, and earning my degree that way... PLUS if you are an EM or ET, you get some EXTRA bonus credits (MM's only get ~60 credit hours, ELTS get 70 or something like that, EM/ET's get ~70 as well). So, without attending a day of college, they already give you more credits then I would have had I gone to college

@ 93-983

[JsonD13]

If you want a degree, being a nuke will definetly give you study habits that will carry over and make that process much easier.  Yes you will spend a year and a half in training, but if you don't have your heart set on getting an ABET degree, then you are going to be able to use that to count for 3 years or so of college work.  If you do nothing else in six years of enlistment, you will get your degree fairly quick after you get out.  It is VERY VERY easy to continue onto a graduate degree after you get these "substandard" degrees.  I have one myself.  In fact, I am working on my second master's.  The school's I am with for my graduate education are well known (Southern Methodist University, for one).  In 7 years in the Navy (with less than 12 semester credits prior to the Navy) that isnt bad.  I would not call myself the norm however.  You have to want to make good use of your off time, however much of it you have.  The people that are trying to dissuade you from going that path did not use their earned education properly, or have never tried to get that degree.

[skyfox1121]

thank you guys for your advice. i have decided to go nuke and i leave for boot june 10 which is coming up pretty fast.

1)i was looking into STA 21 is it true nukes have a greater chance of getting into this program or is my recruiter bull s$$^#$ me. 2)also i have 30 comunity college credits but, my gpa is a 2.75 due to lack of focus would this help into geting accepted into STA 21. 3)last question is i havent taken the sat or act and would i be able to take it anytime between schools or during?

[93-383]

thank you guys for your advice. i have decided to go nuke and i leave for boot june 10 which is coming up pretty fast.

1)i was looking into STA 21 is it true nukes have a greater chance of getting into this program or is my recruiter bull s$$^#$ me. 2)also i have 30 comunity college credits but, my gpa is a 2.75 due to lack of focus would this help into geting accepted into STA 21. 3)last question is i havent taken the sat or act and would i be able to take it anytime between schools or during?

Nukes have a better chance than most while still in the pipeline (NNPTC NPTU) however once you get to a ship the odds suck. Once you get to a ship they will start looking at your shipboard service and use that as the primary deciding factor. Ergo if you do not impress your kaki in the first year or so you will not get picked up for STA-21. If your sea command evals do not set you apart form the rest of the crowd you have bad odds.

[Roll Tide]

When considering a degree, check out this fine Nukeworker advertiser, with a nice banner ad:
http://www.nukeworker.com/adserver/www/delivery/ck.php?oaparams=2__bannerid=26__zoneid=1__cb=d3688feecd__maxdest=http://www.epceonline.org/nw


Use the Excelsior program, and make sure you get OTHER credits while you are in the Navy. For example, get the Calculus and Calculus based Physics.

[Preciousblue1965]

Well I did 8+ and out as a MM with no prior college credit.  I am just about to start my second year and the only thing I had that transfered over was Speech and Communications.  I am working towards my engineering degree(either Mech or Nuke) and most of my NPS classes didn't transfer because they weren't calculus based.  But I will say that after going through the pipeline that class is a breeze in college because you learn to absorb so much so fast.  Made it through calculus without doing any homework and just missed getting an A in the course(go ahead and start rediculing me for not getting the A but I had a newborn to play with and worked full time).  So although you might not get dozens of credits for classes toward your Engineering degree, your NNPP experience will help you when you do start taking classes. 

[Preciousblue1965]

I agree with PB.  Nuke pipeline does prepare you well for success in college.  You know how to study effectively and efficiently....and you'll also be older and more mature then the average college student.

One thing I did find hard about going back to college after going through the NNPP was not forcefully waking up my fellow "classmates" when they fell asleep during a lecture.  Had to stop myself from smaking the guy that was sprawled out on his desk snoring during one of my english comp classes. 

Going back to what GameCock said, you will definitely be at an advantage in the fact that some of your courses you will have more life experience about the subject matter.  Furthermore, you will most likely be there because you want to learn something, not because your parents said you had to go to college or else get out on your own.  Hardest part is putting up with the little punks that don't know how good they got it.

[Loffy Muffin]

Engineering easier then NNPS?  Good one.  Actually, depends what school you go to.  If you go to a top engineering school, guess what sweet pea, the average engineering student will have a 3.8GPA and score in the top 5-10% in the ACT/SAT.  Most of the engineering students would sell their grandmother into slavery to get an A in Thermo. Very competitive. Oh, and +30% of the students are foreign with the best and brightest from India/Asia coming over here to do undergrad.  They think RR is doing an eigenvalue calc while on the head.  The grading system is based on the curve and this will vary depending on what school you attend.  Back in the day, the average was 2.7 with the top 2-3 getting A's and the bottom 3-4 finding a new major. 

NNPS it will be 2.5 survive. No curve.  Basically pass/fail but they keep score so you can bring it up 10 years later and annoy people that don't care.  Nuke will be hard for you based on your CC GPA, but if you want to get through it, you will. 

I knew a couple of nukes in college.  One got smoked out in a semester and transfered to an easier college (graduated comp sci).  A couple more I avoided like the plague because they were tools, but I seen them around so they must have been at least passing.  I usually dived into the bushes when I seen them coming. 

If this was the 1990's, I would say forget engineering and go finance.  There has been a glut of engineers for awhile, no reason to go engineering unless you love it.  But, I think the tide has changed and engineering will be a better career going forward then finance.  It makes a big difference on what school you attend as to how hard it will be.  You want an easier path, go to an SEC school and cruise.  Personally, with all the opportunities that should arise with Nuke builds, engineering will be a waste if you stay in com nuke and you are looking for ROI.  It's mucho mullah, and mucho hard work with no pay.  You are looking at 6 years navy, then 4-5 years engineering.  Then when you graduate, you are a nub engineer with 0 experience starting out at less then rookie (take home) aux operator. 

Basically, my whole e-div got out and to to college.  The ones that went to busAdmin did very well.  Oh, one did stay in now that I remember.  got out a master chief a couple years ago....and two divorces, two spousal abuse convics, and a couple DUI's to round out the ol resume.... 4-oh sailor.   

[Preciousblue1965]

Well while I do not know about Lofty's educational experience or what he has seen in his years, all I can attest to is my own personal experience.  I am in my first year of going back to school going to a community college in town for my basic gen ed classes and math classes.  So far I have put in very little effort and holding a 3.8 GPA while having a 6 month old son and full time job.  My plan is to go to U of Tenn as a Mech Major and based on what I have heard from my friends that went STA21 to get Mech Engineering Degrees that being a nuke makes life really easy going through school.  When I get my degree I will evaluate it for myself.

[Nuclear Renaissance]

Having gone through commercial nuke fundamentals, GFES, and licensed operator systems and having earned a mechanical engineering degree from a top-20 engineering college, my experience is this:

commercial: learn the "what" by memorizing silly pneumonics and tables, but there is a whole heck of a lot of "what" to learn. you need to put in the effort, but there are training and operations departments whose paid job it is to best make certain you learn the material.

college: learn the "why" and "how". sometimes takes multiple points of view from several texts for it to finally make sense and sink in. keeping the coursework challenging keeps the college rankings high, and if you fail, there is someone else who will take your place.

The degree was harder, no doubt. Yes, there are kids floating around in college who may not have earned their place, but by the time you are into the core curriculum of your eng major, those "little punks" are long gone.

[Loffy Muffin]

Community college is no comparison to a Major College/University.  CC is basically grade 13.  They teach the curriculum and might even use the same books, but a major college is much harder then a CC.  That curve thing they use.  But, taking the first 2 years at a CC and transfer to a state school is smart.  cheaper.  Just get ready to study much harder. Ease into it the first semester at the major to get used to the step up in competition.  I took all my non-engineering courses at the local com college and took my engineering courses at the major to save jack.  I just couldn't jack up my GPA from the soft LSA courses.

Any nuke that I knew, if going full time at a CC, should be able to get 3.5-4.0 easy.  The only hard class I took at a CC was, surprise,  paramedics classes.  Mainly because you had to score 95% or higher to get an A.  #$%^ fireman!  Most of the tests I scored the highest in the class but was at a B.  I learned a lot however.  I can bring people back from the dead now.  What a rush!  Added bonus was working the ER with nurses. 

FGI, the california state school systems used to be free for in staters (get in state status if you are stationed in cali) and the universities are excellent values.  If I had to do it over, I would have stayed left coast and went to one of the ucal schools and saved mullah.  Plus, the weather in SoCal is not bad either.

[Ebeo1]

I'll throw my 2¢ in on this one.  When I was a young 18 yr old I had been accepted to a few top engineering schools.  Yet I wanted to see the world and those darn schools were so expensive I thought the military should help finance my education while I served the country (win win).  I joined with the idea of going to a west coast attack sub as an electrician after the pipeline and finish my B.S. with pace courses.

Six years later how silly that idea seems, I have completed 0 of my goals which makes a good retention argument to keep me in the navy.  I have completed a associates degree from coast line community college through pace courses the books cost more than the course did see for yourself.

http://www.coastline.edu/admissions/page2.cfm?LinkID=914 

The associates has not helped me at all matter of fact when I tried to re-apply to the university's that I had once been accepted to I was denied! The courses that are taught at NNPTC are not to many schools accreditation standards so instead of being a transfer student I thought I would just go in as a freshman and do the four years.  Nope I had a degree so I had to be a transfer student quite the catch 22.

Go STA-21 there will be time to take SAT ACT in school Apply for STA-21 as soon as you can and as often as you can.  The only person I knew who did it was a newly reporting officer to my boat (I have seen about a dozen denied).  I thought about doing STA-21 but going back to the fleet as a junior officer is not appealing to me. Here you can start working on it now.

https://www.sta-21.navy.mil/

I also don't know anyone to get any degree in the first enlistment. I know two chiefs who got them while in but that was before they came to my boat and not on their first enlistment.

Nuke is not a fun job if you prove yourself your only earning your right to do more work, my boat seems to task only those that they trust.  This includes restarting air conditioning units in the middle of the night because the idiot on watch doesn't know how, coming in and working sunday morning to calibrate some gage, or getting called back to work at 2100 friday night because the duty section has been all disqualified. The list continues and will never end as long as your onboard but you get the idea.  While this is all going on when is there time to work on courses?  Who wants to do an hour of class work after spending 10 hours at work? 
Maybe I'm wrong

Let me add - I tried to take a college course and I found out there is a new rule, if the class ends within one year or greater than your EAOS your not eligible for tuition assistance or pace courses.  Doing some math you will find that in a 6 year enlistment 2 years in the pipeline 2 years to become senior in rate and last year not eligible for tuition assistance adds up.  Thats leave about 1 year to complete a a degree on top of a 40+ hour work week. 

Here a few more links:

https://www.excelsior.edu/Excelsior_College/School_of_Business_and_Technology/Technology_Programs/BS_IN_NUCLEAR_ENGINEERING_TECHNOLOGY

http://www.tesc.edu/2618.php

http://www.rpi.edu/ewp/navy/index.html  * My friends in NY prototype say there is a rumor that there going to cancel this program

[skyfox1121]

Well I know CC isn't hard I just had to worry about to many things like working 40 hr, going to school full- time, taking care of my brother, parents and their divorce. When I was away from all that stuff for my last semester I had a 4.0. I am capable of improving my GPA but i just want to get away from everything and see the world.

Thanks for that STA 21 link it was very helpful

[Roll Tide]

I am seeing a trend among some about the desired career direction: join the Navy for the GI Bill, then get out and get a really good (not SEC) engineering degree. After scraping by for the Navy years (so you save some $$$ for college), you can eat ramen noodles and still accumulate tens of thousands in debt. Then you will have the prestigious degree you seek, and can join the ranks of professionals making the big bucks. Actually, you will have to take an entry-level engineering job until eligible for, and successful, in PE.

Alternatives along the same lines include recommendations to work as little as possible (see YN or Air Farce) while you are in to get GI bill eligibility. Many caution against getting a TESC or Excelsior degree; after all, that is affordable and doable while still on active duty. Many think they don't have time while in the Navy for a degree. All it takes is discipline. (After quals (your first 2 years on the boat), you will have plenty of time for movies or cards at sea. Which is more important?)

So maybe you should consider the other route: get any degree you can while you are in the Navy (BS preferred over AS) and use that to help you get interviewed at commercial nukes that are hiring for entry-level operators. In less time than you can get that PE, you could have an SRO license. Is it difficult? Absolutely. But you are getting paid >$50K per year for the training instead of paying tens of thousands for the training.

Where do you want to be when you are 32?
One route would be graduate high school at 18, 8 years Navy, 4-5 years engineering college, 2 years gaining experience towards PE. Then ready to make big bucks (which is good, since you have serious debt). After a few more years, you will be in the big leagues making over $100,000 per year.
The other route is high school at 18, college while doing 8 years Navy, then working up through the OPS ranks. By the way, currently there are AUOs making about $100K within 2 years on site (through overtime pay; should be closer to $80K with better staffing).

If you are the best of the best of the best, you will be successful in either commercial nukes or engineering. Either one will pay six figure incomes. One will allow you to have a life much sooner, or afford the life you already have (i.e. kids already here or on the way).


One last thing: which engineering degree is worth more money than an SRO license? NONE

[Gamecock]

I am seeing a trend among some about the desired career direction: join the Navy for the GI Bill, then get out and get a really good (not SEC) engineering degree.

What's wrong with an SEC engineering degree??

[arduousartifice]

Skyfox:  STA-21 has fairly good pickup rates for applicants in the pipeline.  The best way to show you should be picked up is to work hard in school, get good grades, have a positive attitude, and get a class leadership position.  Without showing you want to be a leader, you probably won't get picked up.  However, remember no one will want you around if your actions show that all you're doing is punching your ticket to get picked up; that BS just pisses off people who can become lifelong friends. 

Also, the house and senate recently passed a new GI bill (>2/3 majority in both houses), it will probably take effect FY 09 or 10.  It will provide full tuition up to the most expensive in-state tuition of any public school in the state you are in, E-5 BAH, and $1000 a year for books and such, all for 36 months.  There is also a section in the bill about private institutions, but it requires cooperation between the VA and the private schools, so I doubt it will happen for several years.  Maybe everyone already knows, but I don't watch TV, so I don't know what the news covers.  I am looking forward to using it to finance an economics degree in 687 days and counting.  BTW, I am six credits away from the BSAST from TESC and still on my first enlistment.  You can do it, but it requires motivation, creativity, and communication with your instructors.

[Roll Tide]

What's wrong with an SEC engineering degree??

Not a problem in my book. Just look up a few posts in this thread. But my youngest is looking forward to Georgia Tech!

[Gamecock]

Not a problem in my book. Just look up a few posts in this thread. But my youngest is looking forward to Georgia Tech!

Tech is an ACC school. 

[Roll Tide]

Tech is an ACC school. 

Ga Tech is SEC. USC is ACC. My worldview hasn't shifted in 35 years! 

OK, I was actually stating that while I liked the SEC engineering programs, and considered a couple of them many years ago, my son has decided the best bet for him isn't SEC (anymore) but the Ramblin' Wreck. He should do fine, if he keeps his current high standards.

[Nuclear Renaissance]

GA Tech - good choice
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/eng/search/rank+ranked

[Roll Tide]

GA Tech - good choice

I thought so too. I have always encouraged him to pull for his favorite team on the football field, but choose wisely for where you will study.

[Gamecock]

Ga Tech is SEC. USC is ACC. My worldview hasn't shifted in 35 years! 

You obviously are a genius.  Anyone who recognizes that USC isn't in California is a notch above all others....at least in my book.
Break...

I was ECP back in the day....I almost chose Tech over USC because of the quality of the school....but finances won out  (USC tuition for active military was about $800 a semester.)

[Preciousblue1965]

Umm University of South Carolina is in the SEC.  I went to the University of Tennessee/South Carolina game last year in Knoxville.  It was a conference game.  Georgia Tech is an ACC team, they play Va Tech, Miami, and all those others.  Now what I really want to see is Oregon State play University of South Carolina in a bowl game just once. 

[Gamecock]

Umm University of South Carolina is in the SEC.  I went to the University of Tennessee/South Carolina game last year in Knoxville.  It was a conference game.  Georgia Tech is an ACC team, they play Va Tech, Miami, and all those others.  Now what I really want to see is Oregon State play University of South Carolina in a bowl game just once. 

You're missing the guys point.....years ago, GT was SEC and USC was ACC....thus his comment about his world view not changing  in 35 years.

The old saying holds true in this case...It is better to be quiet and be thought an...... then to speak up and remove all doubt...




Break

'Cocks would pound Beavers in any bowl game

[Preciousblue1965]

Well I stand corrected..er enlightened further. 

And USC would only win if they were able to repeatedly drive deep into OSU territory