Pro's and Con's

[SN Bass]

Hey guys I recently enlisted into the Navy Nuclear Field and I would like to know, what are some of the bad and the good things about this program after I get out of the schooling.  I heard that there is a lot of work involved which does not necessarily bother me much, but, I would like to know if that is shifts being longer, more days a week, or just harder work with a normal shift.  Also, I have heard that we get an entirely different pay scale, is this true?  Also, is it good or bad.

I just would like to hear the answers to those particular questions plus whatever else you guys might think I should know about the program.

[Preciousblue1965]

Well having just gotten out in the past two years I will do my best to keep this as balanced as possible. 

Pros
-you get more money than other people in the navy that are the same rank.  You get ProPay for being a nuke and you get really big re-enlistment bonuses. 
-You make rank much faster than other people in the Navy.  Avg. time for promotion to 1st class for a star baby was about 4 years when I made it.  The fun part is attempting to keep that rank.
-Plenty of opportunity on the outside for work when you get out.
-you know what type of ship you will be on, either CVN, SSBN, SSGN, or SSN.  Compared to the dozens of other types in the conventional world.
-You will be put in positions of leadership or expertiese when placed to work with non-nukes.
-Nukes respect knowledge more than rank(although the rest of the Navy operates opposite of this)

Cons(There are a lot in my book but I will try to keep them to a minimum)
-You will work more than anyone else in the Navy  First ones on, last ones off.
-That measily extra pay you get will not compensate for the BS you will incur on a daily basis from regulations, to exams, to ORSE, to interpretations.
-Your shore duty choices are very limited.  Basically it is prototype or stay on the boat these days
-The turn over rate is so high, the nuclear navy refuses to use any criteria in selecting new students(sorry cold hard fact, easier to replace than to retain) therefore, really bad nukes stay in and cannot be gotten rid of.
-When the S*$% hits the fan, the command will always find a nuke to fix it but will never give them the credit they deserve, but will instead give it to a guy who does ok just to continue breathing without further instructions(see NAM for polishing deckplates for SK vs. rebuilding a SSTG and getting extra work for doing a good job)

Like I said there are a lot more both pro's and con's and I am sure other people will chime in.  For the most part, most nukes hate their life but would not trade the experience or their friends for the world.  Something about going through hell to bring people together.  Just remember it always gets better after _________(Insert Event here E.G. ORSE, MTT, FastCruise, PEMA, PIA, etc.)
-
-

[Loffy Muffin]

Basically, you will work the hardest and get treated the worst.  Sorry kid, I wish I could tell you differently. The Navy is like bizarro world.  Everything is reverse logic.  Work the hardest, be the smartest: get treated like crapola. 
But, if you make it through the 6 years without punching some sadistic lifer out (get them on the beach after a lot of beers.  Plausible deniability I think its called. Its harder then you can imagine going 4plus years without blowing up on one of these clowns) you should be able to score a nice gig making good money. 

And that isn't bad. 

[SN Bass]

Do that many people actually like the job and stay in for 20+ years?  I don't really mind busting my butt in working, nor getting treated s****y that much as long as I have a paycheck to come with it.  I am also planning to become an officer later on through an ROTC program or OCS or something.  Will it be possible to switch jobs then?  Like if I decided to try out for pilot.  The guy who talked to me on the nuke field told me he loved it, he gave me some of the same bad sides to it you guys told me. But, he said he pretty much enjoyed what he did.  Well keep the answers coming I want to be prepared for what I will be facing.

Also, does anyone know the dropout rate for the school?  I'm not that worried about it though because I made a 74 out of 80 on the test.  I know it will be hard and such but I believe I will get through.

Modified for language.

[Loffy Muffin]

I didn't know anyone that liked it.  Zero.  nada.  The people that reenlisted did it for 20,000 reasons as in bucks.  It is more now.  All of the senior nukes were pretty much a mess.  Serious character flaws.   But, this is just one dudes experience on one boat a long time ago.  I'm sure it has changed.

Don't mind getting treated like crap, working long hours as long as they throw you coin or two?  Well, you have definitely choosen the right field. 

look up other threads for ogang vs enlisted. 

[Preciousblue1965]

Well there are more reasons to reenlist than just money.  Some people do it because their family has medical problems that private insurance won't cover or costs too much to cover.  Others do it because of the retirement benefits.  Others do it because they know they can't hack it in the civilian sector.  Some do it because they actually enjoy it but those people are generally not quite right in the head.  Not all senior nukes are a mess, but you don't get promoted to higher up positions unless you learn to play nuclear politics, which usually leads to burning a lot of common sense bridges in the process.  But this is also just one guys opinion who happened to spend 3 years at protohell and see a lot of people who should not have gotten through get pushed through because they need replacements.

[Preciousblue1965]

Something else I forgot to mention.  ASVAB and NFQT(if they still give it) scores don't mean JS when it comes to nuke school.  Knew a guy in A school got max score on both and flunked out after the second subject.  Seen guys who barely got in excel.  It is all about you ability to think critically(all pun intended) and suck down the firehose of info they feed you.  Some words of wisdom for you though

1. No good deal goes unpunished.  If you find yourself in a situation where life is really good, be prepared for life to suck in the near future.  The level of suck rarely if ever is below the level of good.

2. No matter what you do, what your situation, or what problems you have; someone in your command has been through that same situation.  Seek out their help and use their experience in the matter to help you through yours.

3. The stupid shall be punished.  This rarely means those that are not intelligent but rather those who are smart enough to know better but refuse to fully engage that mass of matter between their ears.

4. The amount of time that you will have a good Chain of command is approx. 1/2 to 1/4 of the amount of time that you will have a crappy COC.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I have recently gone through the pipeline and am now on medical hold on a ship.

1) A school and Power school are pretty much cut and dry. You are constantly supervised, your hours are VERY straightforward, and you work a 5 day work week with some study time on the weekends. the amount of time you spend at work depend 100% on your ability to pay attention, take notes, ask questions, and apply the knowledge you have learned.

2) Prototype is VERY different. You get subjected to 12 hour days in a schedule like this - 7 days of 7 am - 7 pm, "2" days off (you will understand), 7 days of 11 am - 11 pm, "1" day off", 7 days of 7 pm - 7 am, "3" days off, 4 days of 7am - "7"pm, 4 days off. repeat this for 4 months. The problem with Prototype is the lack of supervision. You pretty much make your own noose at prototype. If you work hard, keep your nose clean, and bust your butt, you will notice your time is a lot easier then others. However, since you dont have people over your butt 24/7, its rather easy to slip into a vicious cycle of slacking off. Dont be one of those guys.

3) once you report to the ship, the hours stabilize in port/shipyard, however you are more pressured to qualify and support your watchbill. However, theres still a lack of supervision, so you get the same "make or break" thing at prototype. HOWEVER the key difference here is that you live and work with these people for the next 4-5 years!   

Basically with prototype and shipyard/port (I have not gone to sea, so I wont skepticize what happens), the old adage "Dont crap where you eat" applies. Oh yeah, and enjoy 4 section duty when the rest of the ship has 8 section Prepare to work harder then you have ever had in your life.

As for the bad things, the navy is what you make of it. Each person has their own good and bad things that are unique to them.

Good Luck!

[SN Bass]

Thanks for all the information guys.  I do have one more question though.  What will my average shifts usually be while in shipyards and on a ship.  And will it still be 7 days a week?

[xobxdoc]

I was on the Truxtun in the Bremerton yards in 82. The nukes were on the prototype shift rotation which was pretty nice. No duty days. That is until we got steam back in the engineroom and we did port and starboard for a month until we left the yards. Over all it was pretty good duty.

[Preciousblue1965]

Well I can only speak from a Carrier standpoint.  Normal 6 month yard periods usually go like this.  

Beginning:  Usually starts after a 6+month deployment.  The first month after the deployment is supposed to be a standdown.  Minimal work.  YEA RIGHT.  During the Standown, the yardbirds will come in and try to get started with the overhaul.  Lots of paperwork, tagouts, getting systems shutdown, etc.  This goes on for about 45-60 days once it starts.  

Middle:  The only good thing during shipyard period.  Generally, not a lot going on, shipyard owns every system, nothing is running, very little maintenance for ship crew to do.  This is when a lot of people go to various schools for the navy.  Most of the time this will be where you will maximize duty section rotation and liberty. Lasts about 2-3 months

End:  Kiss your life goodbye for about 1 to 2 months.  My old boat went Port/Stbd duty section rotation.  Basically you had 27 hours on the boat, 21 off, back on for 27(after preshift briefings, watch turnover, and having to stick around for Happy Hour cleaning untill 9 am).  Watch rotation was 6 on/6 off and had a dedicated maintenance team of non-watchstanders.  Some boats go to lock shift work but not sure how that works.  Shipyard will wait until the last minute to get everything done, and then even add about double the intial jobs in the last few weeks.  LIFE WILL SUCK.  No getting around it.  it will suck harder than anything you have ever witnessed in life.  

Fast Cruise:  This where you stay on the boat for several days and pretend to be underway.  No one leaves, especially nukes.  Everything is running and being tested except the engines(althought have heard of some carriers testing the mains out with steel lines tying them down).  After about 2 days, topsiders get to go home and RX Dept stays onboard to ensure that everything that the yardbirds broke gets fixed prior to underway.  

Sea Trials:  The only interesting underway you will have.  No planes, no chowdales, just ship's crew.  Go out, test everything shipyard worked on, Fix anything they touched, and put the ship through some interesting things.  Crashbacks, Full speed rudderswings(hard turns that make the ship pitch over about 45 degrees both directions) and other fun things.  Only underways I really enjoyed.  

Hope that helps.  Don't know about Subs but from what I hear they suck just as bad if not worse.  Sure you don't go underway but towards the end you will wsh that you were underway.  Shipyard periods really suck hard core.

[rumrunner]

Shipyard periods really suck hard core.

I never thought I'd say that when the Nimitz first entered Newport News for 18 months back in 1983, but towards the end I couldn't wait to move the ship back to pier 12 at Norfolk.  I had to see the Captain for a check-out on some qual (LELT or PPWS, I forget) when we were about ready to leave the yards,  and I told him the same thing (no, I wasn't sucking up for a sign-off.  He asked the question).

What really was bad was the poor saps who couldn't afford to live in civilian land.  They stayed on a barge in the yard and had to carry their hardhats and steel-toed shoes with them on liberty since they were required whenever on shipyard property.  We'd see these guys in downtown Hampton with yellow hardhats tied to their shorts, wearing their boondockers, and you couldn't help but laugh. 

And there is nothing quite like the stunning cruelty of a fast cruise in the shipyard.  I had a man who's wife went into labor and they wouldn't let him leave until a regularly scheduled whaleboat ran from the ship to the end of the pier.  Seriously.  He had approved leave so he yelled at the yardbird running the crane on the pier to swing the bucket onto the elevator.  He got in the bucket and went to the hospital.  They wrote him up for leaving the ship in an unapproved manner!  The chief got the charge dropped. 

I don't know how it is now, but when at Norfolk we usually had quarters and secured to the duty section by 0900.

[Preciousblue1965]

Well my last PIA(carrier overhall) the last 45 days or so were port/stbd duty with 6x6 watch rotations.  I was WCS and one of the few people that knew how to write tagouts in SOMS(practically could tag out almost anything from memory if I had to) so even though I stood my 6 hour watch I would be up the next 6 hours writing up tags and WAFs for yardbirds to work on something for the third and forth time.  Our ship had Happy Hour from 7:30 to 8:30 am everyday.  If you had the 4th watch you didn't get relieved until 730. Topsiders were complaining that RX dept was leaving during cleaning stations so they made everyone stick around till after happy hour(nevermind they were still 8 sect duty and we were P/S).  The last week or so it turned into pretty much you lived on the boat even if you weren't on duty. 

[DSO]

Well my last PIA(carrier overhall)   Our ship had Happy Hour from 7:30 to 8:30 am everyday.  If you had the 4th watch you didn't get relieved until 730. Topsiders were complaining that RX dept was leaving during cleaning stations so they made everyone stick around till after happy hour(nevermind they were still 8 sect duty and we were P/S).  The last week or so it turned into pretty much you lived on the boat even if you weren't on duty. 

I encountered this--Nukes working 12-16 hr shifts, but because of gutless supposed leaders that would not speak up to the XO, they stayed around for another hour to field day with the whining Coners. Just one example of why the Navy Nuclear field loses so many people.  I wish I had these leaders for bosses now--I love overtime pay for senseless tasks.

[Loffy Muffin]

of course the coners are going to stick it to the nukes at every opportunity.  they run the boat.  Plus, they just love it when they can get a nuke who still thinks he is "special".  A nuke should be able to figure that out.

What was a real hoot, was when they have an E-6 ELT from proto type come on board to take over as the lead ELT, and they stuck him the torpedo room while an E-2 cook loser getting a rack....I think I  reminded him of that, oh, about every day.

I made as many friends forward as I could.  Radio?  Now I know all the messages going in and out (hey, did the fool XO send the dive school message?)...Yeoman...("Hey, they are fixing to write you up, better keep your head down."  Plus, your paper work get expedited)...cooks...("here are some steaks/shrimp/lobster for your surf road trip to mexico")....Sonar (hang out in the shack listening to AC/DC or sleeping during field day while the special nukes are in the bilge).  Plus the coner chiefs are not complete basket cases like the nuke chiefs.  The COB is usually a coner, so hanging out with the coners makes a nuke high the COB's list of favorites...so I used to get choice berthing, best barracks, easy field days...

[mlslstephens]

of course the coners are going to stick it to the nukes at every opportunity.  they run the boat.  Plus, they just love it when they can get a nuke who still thinks he is "special".  A nuke should be able to figure that out.

What was a real hoot, was when they have an E-6 ELT from proto type come on board to take over as the lead ELT, and they stuck him the torpedo room while an E-2 cook loser getting a rack....I think I  reminded him of that, oh, about every day.

I made as many friends forward as I could.  Radio?  Now I know all the messages going in and out (hey, did the fool XO send the dive school message?)...Yeoman...("Hey, they are fixing to write you up, better keep your head down."  Plus, your paper work get expedited)...cooks...("here are some steaks/shrimp/lobster for your surf road trip to mexico")....Sonar (hang out in the shack listening to AC/DC or sleeping during field day while the special nukes are in the bilge).  Plus the coner chiefs are not complete basket cases like the nuke chiefs.  The COB is usually a coner, so hanging out with the coners makes a nuke high the COB's list of favorites...so I used to get choice berthing, best barracks, easy field days...

I usually don't do this...but what the heck, you caught me in a rare mood. 

Loffy, when I read your post, I am reminded of the sound of 400 Hz SSMGs...nothing but whine.  Your thoughts take me back to Napa Valley...surrounded by "whine". 

The smite is for not staying on topic or providing anthing useful to others on the forum...just like I just did, but I wanted to make a point.  I'd smite myself if I could.

[navytwinmom]

  Work the hardest, be the smartest: get treated like crapola. 

Sorry to burst any bubbles here but that is life babyyyyy. I have worked for the same company for 17 years (yes i know i am crazy) and feel the same way. As long as you are doing your job the right way oops i mean the Navy way you should be proud.

<NTW steps up on her soap box>

Pro of being a Navy Nuke--from a moms point of view
 
The pride that comes from knowing you are working the hardest and are the smartest.
Knowing that no matter how much crappola they sling at you you are still the hardest working and smartest
The smiles on the faces of your family and friends when they see you come home. I know i am soooooooo proud of my sons and all the Navy guys on this site for their service. It is not something i like to think about but when i do i know some very brave young women and men are out there doing what i can not.

<NTW steps down from soap box>

NaVLI4--i would double applaud you if i could!! 

[Loffy Muffin]

Just trying to help the guy out...make friends with the people the run the boat..that's whining? Uh, no that is smart.  How many days did I spend in the TR?  Zero.  The E-6 lead ELT in the torpedo room...that is funny.  Case study in "why not to come to the boat with an attitude".

How many field days did I spend in the ER?  Not many, I was in the sonar shack snoozing with my sonar friends....  then the COB comes by telling how nice the sonar looks.... while the nukes have to work extra because the ER is "not clean enough".  so, I'm in the crews mess eating ice cream while the nukes are doing extra. That is funny.  no hilarious.  I think I called back there to ask them if they wanted me to save them any ice cream.  Just trying to help my nuke buddies.  Case study in "why it pays to make friends with the coners".  (I have to spell everything out here. We have career navy dude that can't figure it out.)

Life is working hard and getting treaded like crapola?  Uh, maybe your life is sweet heart.  Not mine.  If I  get even remotely treating like crap now and it's seaya later (I don't)...I like making my own way (I do).   Case study in "why it is smart to be have marketable skill set" Get paid, get treated well. 

Brave young men/women? Please.  Let me wipe the tear from my eye.  Do a tour with  the jarheads/seals/rangers/army and then get back to me.  I/we sat in temperature controlled environment eating as much food as we could getting fat and cleaning.  whoopie...now everyone whats to make it look like they were some kinda of "heros'.  the most action I seen was when we cleaned out some bar in the PI. 
 
so, SN Bass, you don't want to come to  boat with "I am a nuke, I'm better then the coners" attitude (most do).  fit in.  make friends with the forward people and they will take care of you. forward people run the boat, make no mistake about that.  You get on their bad side...

That is not adding anything?  That is great advice and is exactly on topic.  He wants to knowthe good/bad things when he gets to sea.  RTFQ, dude. 

[Marlin]

Just trying to help the guy out...make friends with the people the run the boat..that's whining? Uh, no that is smart.  How many days did I spend in the TR?  Zero.  The E-6 lead ELT in the torpedo room...that is funny.  Case study in "why not to come to the boat with an attitude".

How many field days did I spend in the ER?  Not many, I was in the sonar shack snoozing with my sonar friends....  then the COB comes by telling how nice the sonar looks.... while the nukes have to work extra because the ER is "not clean enough".  so, I'm in the crews mess eating ice cream while the nukes are doing extra. That is funny.  no hilarious.  I think I called back there to ask them if they wanted me to save them any ice cream.  Just trying to help my nuke buddies.  Case study in "why it pays to make friends with the coners".  (I have to spell everything out here. We have career navy dude that can't figure it out.)

Life is working hard and getting treaded like crapola?  Uh, maybe your life is sweet heart.  Not mine.  If I  get even remotely treating like crap now and it's seaya later (I don't)...I like making my own way (I do).   Case study in "why it is smart to be have marketable skill set" Get paid, get treated well. 

Brave young men/women? Please.  Let me wipe the tear from my eye.  Do a tour with  the jarheads/seals/rangers/army and then get back to me.  I/we sat in temperature controlled environment eating as much food as we could getting fat and cleaning.  whoopie...now everyone whats to make it look like they were some kinda of "heros'.  the most action I seen was when we cleaned out some bar in the PI. 
 
so, SN Bass, you don't want to come to  boat with "I am a nuke, I'm better then the coners" attitude (most do).  fit in.  make friends with the forward people and they will take care of you. forward people run the boat, make no mistake about that.  You get on their bad side...

That is not adding anything?  That is great advice and is exactly on topic.  He wants to knowthe good/bad things when he gets to sea.  RTFQ, dude. 

I very rarely smite anyone for anything, but attacking the mother of veterans is pretty d%*n low. That and you seem to be a self proclaimed slacker and hate monger. Hopefully a moderator in a better frame of mind will delete all of this and send me a PM to cool off but for right now...

[navytwinmom]

Life is working hard and getting treaded like crapola?  Uh, maybe your life is sweet heart.  Not mine.  If I  get even remotely treating like crap now and it's seaya later (I don't)...I like making my own way (I do).

OK i am doing this publicly and i will take all the smiting and private PM's from the mods if they feel i have stepped over the line......

A...I am not your sweet heart...
B....i reread my post and i did not limit my thanks to just Navy men and woman...my dad did tours in Korean and Vietnam (army)...friends of mine are "jarheads"....i don't reserve my thanks/appreciation/support for those serving their country to just Navy.
C...i am glad (and i am not saying that sarcastically) you have the opportunity in your life to say seaya later to a job that remotely treats you like crap...most of us don't have the luxury.

[rumrunner]

Getting back to the OP's question...

Yes, being a nuc means long hours quite often and not a lot of thanks for it.  You do make rate faster and your bonuses for re-upping are higher.  But an MM3 on a minesweeper with 2 years of service makes the same as a nuclear MM3 with 2 years of service as far as basic pay goes.  On the other hand, at least during my Navy life it seemed the command held nucs to a higher standard than others when it came to violating the UCMJ.  Take two sailors - one nuc and one non-nuc - have them both get drunk in Napoli and make a scene - and the nuc would get more punishment from the Captain.  It kind of wears you down after a while, ya know?  Hence the huge turnover rate of nucs. 

I am proud of my Navy time, but prouder that it is over.  I offer no apologies for saying that my sole motivation for joining the Navy Nuclear Program was to get the training and skills and then move on to commercial nuclear power.  It paid off for me and so I am thankful for my nuclear Navy time in that light.  But to be honest, I didn't join the Navy out of patriotism.  I spent that capital in my Marine Corps time prior to joining the Navy. 

Did I ever feel that my being a nuc (and allegedly smarter and more elite than the coners or top-siders) made up for my extra work?  No, it didn't.  It is hard to think of oneself as smarter when the guys in the Navigation Department are walking off the brow to go on liberty,  and we had to stay aboard and polish deck plates in the engineering spaces.

 

[G-reg]

I strongly believe in "live and let live", including everyone's right to their own opinions and ideas.  So Loffy, you can keep your opinions and ideas, but those particular opinions and ideas are ones you can keep to yourself.  The words you are spewing at this young individual are pure poison.  No matter how much I've disagreed with anyone's post in the past, I have never smited anyone.

Congratulations, you've just become a personal first for me.

SN Bass, you should try to get along with (and even like) as many people on the ship as you can, because you're going to be working with them in close quarters for years.  NOT because they may be able to include you in a scam-out.

For example, there was one Yeoman I liked in particular because this dude was just hilarious, not because I feared a report chit and needed an early-warning radar to keep my scammin' butt out of trouble.

I was polite and respectful to all of the FSA's (Food Service Attendants, you'll find out) because they had a crappy job and they could use all the human kindness they could get; you could actually see the difference in the way they carried themselves after you gave them a genuine "Thank you" or atta-boy.  Exactly the WRONG thing to do is heckle or make fun of guys getting 'the shaft' - it's petty and pathetic, and besides some of those guys working under those conditions can get downright cranky (and some of them are BIG guys!).

So work hard at your job, and get along with as many people as you can.  You don't have to be everybody's friend (do try to avoid the bad apples in the group), but have as many friends as you can.  This holds true whether you go Nuke or not.

I was a Nuke for over 20 years, and yes it is more work being a Nuke.  I myself am glad that I chose to become a Nuke; I wouldn't go back and change it for all the tea in China.

Just one guy's thoughts.

 - Greg

[navytwinmom]

I strongly believe in "live and let live", including everyone's right to their own opinions and ideas.  So Loffy, you can keep your opinions and ideas, but those particular opinions and ideas are ones you can keep to yourself.  The words you are spewing at this young individual are pure poison.  No matter how much I've disagreed with anyone's post in the past, I have never smited anyone.

Congratulations, you've just become a personal first for me.

SN Bass, you should try to get along with (and even like) as many people on the ship as you can, because you're going to be working with them in close quarters for years.  NOT because they may be able to include you in a scam-out.

For example, there was one Yeoman I liked in particular because this dude was just hilarious, not because I feared a report chit and needed an early-warning radar to keep my scammin' butt out of trouble.

I was polite and respectful to all of the FSA's (Food Service Attendants, you'll find out) because they had a crappy job and they could use all the human kindness they could get; you could actually see the difference in the way they carried themselves after you gave them a genuine "Thank you" or atta-boy.  Exactly the WRONG thing to do is heckle or make fun of guys getting 'the shaft' - it's petty and pathetic, and besides some of those guys working under those conditions can get downright cranky (and some of them are BIG guys!).

So work hard at your job, and get along with as many people as you can.  You don't have to be everybody's friend (do try to avoid the bad apples in the group), but have as many friends as you can.  This holds true whether you go Nuke or not.

I was a Nuke for over 20 years, and yes it is more work being a Nuke.  I myself am glad that I chose to become a Nuke; I wouldn't go back and change it for all the tea in China.

Just one guy's thoughts.

 - Greg

Thank you for your service and your post...very sage advice.

[HydroDave63]

How many field days did I spend in the ER?  Not many, I was in the sonar shack snoozing with my sonar friends.... 

Life is working hard and getting treaded like crapola?  Uh, maybe your life is sweet heart.  Not mine.  If I  get even remotely treating like crap now and it's seaya later (I don't)...I like making my own way (I do).   

Case study in "why it is smart to be have marketable skill set" Get paid, get treated well. 

I think we mistranslated the post... looks like 'sweet heart' is the code word that coners use for a nuke that snoozes with them, doesn't do field day in the engineering spaces, and has a 'marketable skill set'.

Makes much more sense now.

[PWHoppe]

I very rarely smite anyone for anything, but attacking the mother of veterans is pretty d%*n low. That and you seem to be a self proclaimed slacker and hate monger. Hopefully a moderator in a better frame of mind will delete all of this and send me a PM to cool off but for right now...

No way would I delete your post Marlin. I'm just trying to keep from resoponding to this piece of work (Loffy Muffin) in much stronger terms. + Karma to ya' for speaking out.

 NTM...+ Karma to you also.

Oh, and BTW although I rarely smite anyone Loffy is too far over the line not to.

[hamsamich]

I don't agree with all of Muffin's post, but alot of it is truth.  I appreciate his candor, and if I were thinking about joining again, his posts, while not pretty to read, are some of the closest to the truth, and would be very helpful in my decision - I still would have joined but might not have been so upset when the many negatives he posts about actually happened.  Smiting for being honest kinda sucks.  Sorry, there is my truth for the day.  Many of Muffin's posts are brutally honest and he is one of the few to tell it like it really was, FOR HIM.  His posts are worth weight in gold because not many other posts come from his viewpoint, which is very selfish. I can't believe someone said he was smited for being off topic, his posts are right on topic. Anyway, selfishness isn't always a bad thing. I read and reread his post and was hard pressed to see him "attacking" anyone.  Much of the time I spent field-daying was useless in my opinion and kudos to anyone who could find a way to get out of it.

I have a story to tell about how subjective at least one of the aspects of field-daying is. One of the many times I was treated badly by those in charge happened while I was field-daying: our EDEA - head nuke enlisted - told me to field day in a certain place, so I did.  The COB (head coner enlisted) came by a few minutes later and saw WHERE I was cleaning and started yelling and berating me and told me how wasteful and stupid it was to be cleaning there. (mitigative for the Navy in general, I was part of a really bad command). This was one of the many times I was belittled and treated poorly by people in command for something that was not under my control.

The point is some people had it good in the Navy, many had it good and bad, and some had it bad.  Maybe some of the people with bad stories to tell aren't whiners, maybe they had a reason for having a bad attitude?  Maybe they really are jerks.  Like Loffy said, nowadays when I get treated like crap, I have a shorter fuse for it, and I am glad I don't let people walk all over me as much as I used to.

 There is a reason why so many good nukes get out....it isn't just the money.  Read Muffin's posts, scale back the hatred because it isn't close enough to your viewpoint, and enhance your trove of navy-nuke data.

[Marlin]

I don't agree with all of Muffin's post, but alot of it is truth.  I appreciate his candor, and if I were thinking about joining again, his posts, while not pretty to read, are some of the closest to the truth, and would be very helpful in my decision - I still would have joined but might not have been so upset when the many negatives he posts about actually happened.  Smiting for being honest kinda sucks.  Sorry, there is my truth for the day.  Many of Muffin's posts are brutally honest and he is one of the few to tell it like it really was, FOR HIM.  His posts are worth weight in gold because not many other posts come from his viewpoint, which is very selfish. I can't believe someone said he was smited for being off topic, his posts are right on topic. Anyway, selfishness isn't always a bad thing. I read and reread his post and was hard pressed to see him "attacking" anyone.  Much of the time I spent field-daying was useless in my opinion and kudos to anyone who could find a way to get out of it.

I have a story to tell about how subjective at least one of the aspects of field-daying is. One of the many times I was treated badly by those in charge happened while I was field-daying: our EDEA - head nuke enlisted - told me to field day in a certain place, so I did.  The COB (head coner enlisted) came by a few minutes later and saw WHERE I was cleaning and started yelling and berating me and told me how wasteful and stupid it was to be cleaning there. (mitigative for the Navy in general, I was part of a really bad command). This was one of the many times I was belittled and treated poorly by people in command for something that was not under my control.

The point is some people had it good in the Navy, many had it good and bad, and some had it bad.  Maybe some of the people with bad stories to tell aren't whiners, maybe they had a reason for having a bad attitude?  Maybe they really are jerks.  Like Loffy said, nowadays when I get treated like crap, I have a shorter fuse for it, and I am glad I don't let people walk all over me as much as I used to.

 There is a reason why so many good nukes get out....it isn't just the money.  Read Muffin's posts, scale back the hatred because it isn't close enough to your viewpoint, and enhance your trove of navy-nuke data.

Try reading for comprehension... most of those posting here have Navy experience good and bad. Pro and anti Navy perspectives have been posted here many times without getting this personnel and especially not to a veterans mother. It is true that many in the submarine service do not see hazardous duty but some do, just as not all Marines or Army personnel earn a combat badge for being under fire. BC has made the same kind of point about hazardous duty in the service without the animosity, though with some prejudice as his daughter serves it Iraq (can't help himself as a proud dad). As for the egos from the aft section, it is bred into you as few other programs in the military are so rigorous. I have to tell you that my boats had the same conner-nuke language but most of us hit the beach together and played cards together and all were just as proud of our Dolphins when earned. While I was in I served with men who had just left the Scorpion and the Thresher prior to the loss of these boats, I have communicated with the father of the young man who died on the San Fransico and am a member or a Sub Vets chapter with two WWII vets who survived Japanese depth charge attacks. The submarine service is larger than the experience of one digruntled sailor.

Yes I will listen to opposing views but I don't think this was it, not when addressed to the mother of a veteran.

Brave young men/women? Please.  Let me wipe the tear from my eye.  Do a tour with  the jarheads/seals/rangers/army and then get back to me.  I/we sat in temperature controlled environment eating as much food as we could getting fat and cleaning.  whoopie...now everyone whats to make it look like they were some kinda of "heros'.  the most action I seen was when we cleaned out some bar in the PI. 
 

[hamsamich]

But muffin is a veteran, and the comment you posted by muffin...there is alot of truth in it.  How many sub sailors do you know in the last 30 years faced any kind of under fire conditions?  My brother and my cousin were both in the Army and while not under fire lived in squalor like conditions many months out of the year.  I never did, although I didn't like the way I was treated at times in the Nav.  How many of the 4000 killed in the last few years in Iraq have been US Navy Nuclear?  If you read the comment he is talking about his very own experiences.  The tone could have been more respectful but the information is valid.  Attack him for tone of voice or being disrespectful.  His comments were attacked, and they shouldn't have been.  And if you read the comments chronologically, NavyTwinMom said she applauds NavLi4 comments about Muffin being a whiner, so in a way she drew first blood, of a fellow Navy Nuke Veteran.  Muffin then said what he said AFTERWARDS.

Sorry Marlin, and no disrespect intended here, but the Scorpion, Thresher and WW2 depthcharging don't really represent the realities of todays armed forces.  The person who posted the thread wants the pros and cons of TODAYS NAVY I'm assuming.  Be honest here, being on today's Nuclear vessel vs. today's Army/Marines/National Guard is a lopsided comparison insofar as living conditions and casualty rate are concerned.  While I respect the men of the Thresher and the Scorpion and WW2 sub vets, that was a long time ago.  The probabilities of losing another Sub aren't very high. the jarheads/seals/rangers/army comment was valid.

What do you mean by "try reading for comprehension"?  Sorry, I am slow at times.

Just to make sure, since there are so many questions of on or off topic, this is still on topic in my opinion, Pros and Cons do include life and death and being in a true combat situation or not.

[Marlin]

But muffin is a veteran, and the comment you posted by muffin...there is alot of truth in it.  How many sub sailors do you know in the last 30 years faced any kind of under fire conditions?  My brother and my cousin were both in the Army and while not under fire lived in squalor like conditions many months out of the year.  I never did, although I didn't like the way I was treated at times in the Nav.  How many of the 4000 killed in the last few years in Iraq have been US Navy Nuclear?  If you read the comment he is talking about his very own experiences.  The tone could have been more respectful but the information is valid.  Attack him for tone of voice or being disrespectful.  His comments were attacked, and they shouldn't have been.  And if you read the comments chronologically, NavyTwinMom said she applauds NavLi4 comments about Muffin being a whiner, so in a way she drew first blood, of a fellow Navy Nuke Veteran.  Muffin then said what he said AFTERWARDS.

Sorry Marlin, and no disrespect intended here, but the Scorpion, Thresher and WW2 depthcharging don't really represent the realities of todays armed forces.  The person who posted the thread wants the pros and cons of TODAYS NAVY I'm assuming.  Be honest here, being on today's Nuclear vessel vs. today's Army/Marines/National Guard is a lopsided comparison insofar as living conditions and casualty rate are concerned.  While I respect the men of the Thresher and the Scorpion and WW2 sub vets, that was a long time ago.  The probabilities of losing another Sub aren't very high. the jarheads/seals/rangers/army comment was valid.

What do you mean by "try reading for comprehension"?  Sorry, I am slow at times.

Just to make sure, since there are so many questions of on or off topic, this is still on topic in my opinion, Pros and Cons do include life and death and being in a true combat situation or not.

The men of the San Fransisco were smoking and joking just before the collision with the under water mountain doing all the comfy things you were talking about. The reality of danger may be very different from perception, talking with the WWII Vets they were bored much more often than in combat, their patrol logs are full of nothing but weather reports. There are currently many debates on the strength of the submarine force because of change in mission and threats around the world. Our submarine force is dwindling at a time when there are far more capable submarines in enemy Navies than in the past. Because you have an illusion of safety does not make it so. If you wanted to put perspective on it, the rate of death in Iraq is not much higher than the rate of death for the same age group back here in the US and lower than in some higher crime areas but I honor them for going in harms way by choice. If you go to sea on a submarine and do not see the potential for your card game to be interupted by an accident or the inevitable military conflict (even in an undeclared war) you have not read your history. Demeaning anyone in the service is not acceptable in my book. It may be your right, but then be prepared for me to exercise mine. I have great respect for the young men and women in combat, what I hear from them makes me very proud and optimistic for the future of the US but petty bickering about who is or is not truly deserving of respect is ludicrous they all go in harms way even those to naive to see it.

[rlbinc]

Back to pros and cons...

Pros: It provided an NEC designation on my DD-214 which made an HR Rep decide that I was worth interviewing for a utility job opening. I got to wear "Old Navy" 20 years before it was fashionable.

Cons: They ceased payment on the Vietnam Era GI Bill in 1989, after four (not ten) years of eligibility. Priority Group 8 VA Medical Benefits (zero).   It would have been nice to make minimum wage for those years in retrospect.

[navytwinmom]

OK my last post on this subject....

1 I want thank all those that remained on topic for SN Bass....lots of good information for the guy.

2 Ham i get your point i did draw first blood...but i agreed with XO....and do not regret what i said. But i do accept that Loffty has the right to his option....and this is the place to voice it in most cases and he was on topic 

3 Broad statements like "I didn't know anyone that liked it.  Zero.  nada.  The people that reenlisted did it for 20,000 reasons as in bucks" and "All of the senior nukes were pretty much a mess.  Serious character flaws." kind of got my blood boiling at the time.

4 I don't know Loffty perhaps he had a worse Navy life one could possibly imagine and if that is the case I do feel bad for him. i think the military in general and the Navy in particular can be a wonderful life for some....just read some of the great posts and all the funny stories.

5 appears to be some talk that one guy is more deserving/brave/committed to serve than another or less of a slacker/whiner/layabout then another because how they chose to serve their country. I respectfully disagree....anyone that signs on that dotted line deserves as much love/respect/honor that we can muster. (if i misunderstood the posts or misread the intent i bow down now in submission)

6...lastly for SN Bass. My sons just finished the pipeline and are home for a bit before reporting for duty stations. Perhaps if you like i can put them in touch with you at least for the next few weeks they can talk about the pipline and if you like let you know how things go in the fleet. One is sub other surface. (the surface guy is being deployed to "the Persian Gulf" then he reports in a few week.

Happy Easter everyone...enjoy your family and friends. Hugs for ALL and i do me ALL the Nukeworker posters.

[hamsamich]

Gotcha Marlin, but when talking about the pros and cons, respect has to go out the window a bit.  This guy wants to know the reality of his situation, so to give him the real deal and not sugar coat stuff, it is a breath of fresh air to see a post like Muffin's. You are getting on your soap box now.  It's obvious to me that it is much more dangerous to be in many other branches of the armed services when compared to the Nuclear Navy, this is not an illusion, I don't know where you are getting your information from.

PRO- you are WAY less likely to die or be maimed on a nuclear navy vessel than in the army due to enemy action.  this is not an illusion.  I don't know where Marlin is getting his info.

If this was a post about Respect for Veterans and Veterans Mothers, then yes, but this is about the pros and cons of nuclear.  TwinMom, I think you are great, I just think Muffin's comments were being poopoo-ed for no good reason.

Read Muffin's comments for those of you that want a real deal perspective on the pros and cons of everyday life in the nuclear navy.

[hamsamich]

these are farily interesting, I didn't know how many wounded there were. cool site.

http://icasualties.org/oif/Service.aspx

http://icasualties.org/oif/OIFWoundedByMonth.aspx

I'm assuming alot of the Navy wounded are EOD and Seals, but maybe not?  Once again to be understood, this is all about Pros and Cons, which is the topic of this Thread.  I have no more or less respect for all the people in our armed services, but I do know when an informed person walks into that recruiter's office, He may be thinking his/her butt might be safer in the Navy, Air Force or Coast Guard, and I think he/she is correct.  This is most likely a Pro for a Nuclear Navy guy, unless he is looking for combat, and if he is, than what is he doing in the nuclear Navy?

[Marlin]

Gotcha Marlin, but when talking about the pros and cons, respect has to go out the window a bit.  This guy wants to know the reality of his situation, so to give him the real deal and not sugar coat stuff, it is a breath of fresh air to see a post like Muffin's. You are getting on your soap box now.  It's obvious to me that it is much more dangerous to be in many other branches of the armed services when compared to the Nuclear Navy, this is not an illusion, I don't know where you are getting your information from.

We are getting closer now, I was not comparing the services I was comparing mortality rates here in the US to those in Iraq for those in the same age groups. I don't dispute the relative hazard between the services I enlisted just before I was drafted and had looked at the possibility of being a helicopter pilot, they did not have a very good prognosis Viet Nam. I think I am looking at perspective and I think LM is a bit extreme. Most of the others posted are much more balanced. I don't think such a heavy bias is "not sugar coating it". I did not choose to make the Navy a career because of many of the anti's, but some did It seems to be a very personnel choice. Those that did stay in the Navy surprised me, they were not in general the slackers and those who were did not make rate. The Navy experience changes as you move up the food chain and so does your perspective. I won't argue that there aren't a number of career people that are there because they don't want to compete on the outside or want the easy early retirement but they don't make up the entire "Goat Locker"

SN Bass would be better served if he understood that there are many different experiences in the Navy. Many of the people I talk to now say that they are very glad to have had the experience but would not want to have to go through it again, it won't be easy. As for comparing being in the Nuke Program to the regular Navy there would be no point to being in the Navy for most Nukes if they were not in the Nuke field or another advanced program.

[hamsamich]

Alot of the nukes I was with on my boat had a much worse opinion of the Navy than what LMs seems to be.  But we were all convinced it was one of the worst commands ever.  I really don't see his opinion being all that extreme actually, but one has to understand my days in the Navy don't match up real well with more positive ones.  Many of the exnavy nukes I meet who are about my age say the same thing.  Some of my time in the Nuc Navy was awesome, but much of it wasn't good.  I think being in during the time you were in Marlin may have been better overall.  Just a guess.  I did meet a guy who was only 3 years older and had a great command on his first boat, loved it and wondered what all the whining was about....then he got to his second boat and understood within weeks.

[Marlin]

Alot of the nukes I was with on my boat had a much worse opinion of the Navy than what LMs seems to be.  But we were all convinced it was one of the worst commands ever.  I really don't see his opinion being all that extreme actually, but one has to understand my days in the Navy don't match up real well with more positive ones.  Many of the exnavy nukes I meet who are about my age say the same thing.  Some of my time in the Nuc Navy was awesome, but much of it wasn't good.  I think being in during the time you were in Marlin may have been better overall.  Just a guess.  I did meet a guy who was only 3 years older and had a great command on his first boat, loved it and wondered what all the whining was about....then he got to his second boat and understood within weeks.

True, I am a bit of a dinosaur but I do have the benefit of this forum and contact with exnukes as do you. I think we are close to being on the same page finally that pro's and con's will vary based on type of ship and command a subject that has been on other threads extensively.

[Loffy Muffin]

also, volunteer for Crank Duty.  Tell the COB you want to Crank so that you can honor the long time tradition of the submarine service by serving the crew which will train and mentor you. (don't lay it on too thick)  I cranked (most nukes were/are not allowed) and it allowed me to meet the crew. The coners will have more respect/accept for you.  since they run the boat, not the nukes, this is important.  Cranking will make your sub quals easy, and the coners will take the time to show you stuff and how it works.  You think any of these other jokers got to listen to alpha class sub we were tracking?    Look throught the scope as the boat comes to PD, drive the boat?  Blow ballast tanks? plot targets? Bet not.  too busy sitting in crews mess telling each other how special they were. 

Now, I didn't besmirch anyones son for joining the navy. Really, I couldn't care less.  Unless you can care less then not caring, which I don't.  Capish? 

"Making broad statements that no one liked in on my boat and didn't know anyone that liked it? " That is not a broad statement.  That is my experience.  A broad statement would be "no one ever in the nuclear navy ever liked it". 

wow.  rocks abound, mate.  better get the hard hat.

Now, continue on with worthless crying, baseless attacks, and ad hominem aguments.

[JustinHEMI05]

also, volunteer for Crank Duty.  Tell the COB you want to Crank so that you can honor the long time tradition of the submarine service by serving the crew which will train and mentor you. (don't lay it on too thick)  I cranked (most nukes were/are not allowed) and it allowed me to meet the crew. The coners will have more respect/accept for you.  since they run the boat, not the nukes, this is important.  Cranking will make your sub quals easy, and the coners will take the time to show you stuff and how it works.  You think any of these other jokers got to listen to alpha class sub we were tracking?    Look throught the scope as the boat comes to PD, drive the boat?  Blow ballast tanks? plot targets? Bet not.  too busy sitting in crews mess telling each other how special they were. 

Now, I didn't besmirch anyones son for joining the navy. Really, I couldn't care less.  Unless you can care less then not caring, which I don't.  Capish? 

"Making broad statements that no one liked in on my boat and didn't know anyone that liked it? " That is not a broad statement.  That is my experience.  A broad statement would be "no one ever in the nuclear navy ever liked it". 

wow.  rocks abound, mate.  better get the hard hat.

Now, continue on with worthless crying, baseless attacks, and ad hominem aguments.

I did all of that, and cranked, and lived in the TR and hot racked.

I am not sure why all the negativity towards your posts since they are the truth as you know it. And I don't feel you attacked the mother at all, unless calling her "sweet heart" is an attack. Then again, she did say "BABY" first. But that all sounds kind of childish, huh?

Personally I don't give a crap if her blood boils when someone complains about how bad a Chief is or how much the nuke navy sucks. She isn't in it and will never experience it. I am curious about how she is going to handle her son's inevitable complains?

Anyway, like has been pointed out, everyone has different experiences. It is pretty well known that I was pretty bitter when I left the Navy. But, it wasn't always like that. In fact, I bet I was the biggest diggit many have ever seen my first two years in; Anchors Aweigh on the computer , Navy flag flying, etc. although I am thankful I never went through with the tattoo . MY command was awesome... from the skipper down to the MLPO. I thought that was what Navy life was going to be like, so I signed up for more. Then, my next skipper showed up, and under this one tyrant of a man, my boat went from excellents on ORSE and TRE to BA on all inspections (except cleaning). We were real good cleaners. Saw the same thing at prototype. Started out with awesome CO, CMC, OO, LCC etc. By the time I left, the command was more lame duck than the current administration.

Point is, things change wildly in the Navy as key people come and go. And guess what, they come and go more frequently than you do so you never know what you are going to get. It is as unpredictable as a marble in a jar of molasses. That is the number one reason I got out. I was simply tired of not having any control over my life, or who controlled it. I was tired of worrying if my next boss was going to be a compete DB or not. Like muffin said, now I do have control. I won't stand for the kind of BS I experienced in the Navy under poor leadership. Whats cool is I pretty much don't have to worry about it because so far, from what I have seen, is the company doesn't typically stand for complete DBs either.

Did I have good times? You betcha! And thankfully, thats all I focus on now. I do miss things like the main engines winding up from A1/3 to AIII, running the evaporator and still, the friendships and strong bonds that were formed, port calls, etc etc etc.

But I will submit, that like muffin, I am infinitely happier now than I ever was in the Navy. No one asks me to swallow pride or dignity, which they will in the Navy. No one tells me they don't give a crap about me. They will in the Navy. No one is going to stand on my back to reach a higher place. They will in the Navy.

The fatter pay check is nice, too.

Justin

[rumrunner]

Point is, things change wildly in the Navy as key people come and go.

No truer words have ever been written.  A great command can become a bad command in one quick change of people.  I saw it happen more than once, the most memorable being when a new Command Master Chief came aboard the Texas and made it unbearable for the enlisted people - including the lesser Chiefs.  I remember this drove me to transfer, and the Career Counselor Chief shared an office with the CMC.  Both were in there when I came in to submit my request.  The CC Chief looked at me, and sarcastically said "what's the matter, don't you like it here anymore?" - loud enough for the CMC's benefit. 

[rlbinc]

The fatter pay check is nice, too.

Justin

A-men Brother Ben! That extra million or so earned in a twenty year interval comes in handy at age 50.
Enjoy the ride, master your trade - and don't forget to get out of the Navy and live the American Dream.

[Preciousblue1965]

I have but one question for Loffy.  During all of your scaming out of field day and other self proclaimed scam jobs, did you ever once consider how your scamming was affecting your department.  I am never one to condone cleaning for the sake of cleaning or field day just because the ship is getting VIPs inbound but will never see the engine room to begin with.  No matter how bad is sucked though, a person had two choices: either suck it up with the rest of people and do what was required, no matter how dumb it was, or scam out and become a buddy-#$%er.  

SN Bass, trust me you don't want to be the latter of those two.  Yea scamming out might seem like the better thing to do and certainly more enjoyable than field day for 4 hours when you just got off watch, but in the end you are just confirming a SH*%BAG status and eventually it will catch up to you.  On a rare occasion you might get away with it for a very long time, but in the end it also comes down to a matter of pride.  Can you look yourself in the mirror and feel that you did what you were supposed to or do you pat yourself on the back for screwing over your buddies just so you could slack off.  Generally if you have to have a yeoman give you a heads up about the fact you are about to be written up(go to mast)more than likely there is a good reason behind it and you should be changing your work ethics.  

No matter what, no matter how bad it got, the best thing about being a nuke was the people you work WITH, not necessarily work for.  It is true that a command climate and morale can be flipped upside down with a change in Command.  I have worked for some of the best MCPOs and some of the worst.  I have worked for some great LTs and some really really bad ones.  I have had to deal with lifers who would let the plant eat itself but as long as everyone had a SAT haircut and the boat was clean life was peachy.  Worked for LT that would go balistic at the drop of a hat to the point that I avoided talking to the man like the plague, even if it was required by my duties.  On the other hand, I have worked with guys/girls that understand that being a nuke is hard and will offer some top cover for the real BS stuff.  Nothing in the nuke life is better than having someone think an idea is complete BS and has the rank to back it up.  

SN Bass take everything that you have read from the old salties and the new generation(I was kinda in the middle, more new than old) and extrapolate what you will from it.  Give it a chance, understand that there will be BS and bloodshed, and pray for good chains of command.  If you find yourself in a bad one, do what you can to make it good, and if you can't just wait a few years and it will change, hopefully for the better but not always.  Your best solice is knocking back a few with your fellow nukes and complaining about everything in general.  After all a B*%(ing sailor is a happy sailor.  

[Loffy Muffin]

 have but one question for Loffy.  During all of your scaming out of field day and other self proclaimed scam jobs, did you ever once consider how your scamming was affecting your department.  I am never one to condone cleaning for the sake of cleaning or field day just because the ship is getting VIPs inbound but will never see the engine room to begin with.  No matter how bad is sucked though, a person had two choices: either suck it up with the rest of people and do what was required, no matter how dumb it was, or scam out and become a buddy-#$%er.

Rock slide is morphing into avalanche! No wonder the "new sub navy" can't surface without sinking trawlers and killing civilians or do a patrol without ramming mountains (note, go around the mountains. its easier).  surprised with some of these "posts" the subs can make it out of the harbor. I think I would put on the life preserver and just never take it off.   
 
Who said it was scamming?  So, cleaning with the coners is scamming?  Nukes didn't/don't have a choice to clean forward.    The Monster chief...errrrr, Master chief lifer thought he was going to be some tough guy, tell us he would send us forward to clean with "those coners".  I volunteered for the "bad" duty.   If you would open your eyes, you see that there isn't much to clean forward...DUH!

So, really, I took one for the team and went forward to clean.  Because I'm a team sorta guy...

I'm not sure what other "scam jobs" I was involved in.  Please, let me know. 

Making the best of a situation/
making friends with coners as well as nukes/
respect forward shipmates, they will respect you back/
Don't cop "I'm better then you" attitude'/
Get involved with forward ops, it's interesting

= Scam job? 

Oh, ok. 

AVALANCHE! 

[mlslstephens]

No wonder the "new sub navy" can't surface without sinking trawlers and killing civilians or do a patrol without ramming mountains (note, go around the mountains. its easier). 

LM,
I respect your opinions regarding a different perspective on the Navy.  I appreciate your willingness to help out SN Bass.  I will however, ask you publicly to stop the nonsense I read above.  If you haven't forgotten, there were nine innocent lives lost in the collision of the USS GREENVILLE and the Ehime Maru.
Also, the collision you refer to with the underwater mountain produced the death of an MM2.  Both tragic incidents that yes, scar the Navy's reputation; however, I don't think this is the right forum to use these instances to bolster your opinion.

I'm not even going to smite you for this...but I want to. 

[JustinHEMI05]

LM,
I respect your opinions regarding a different perspective on the Navy.  I appreciate your willingness to help out SN Bass.  I will however, ask you publicly to stop the nonsense I read above.  If you haven't forgotten, there were nine innocent lives lost in the collision of the USS GREENVILLE and the Ehime Maru.
Also, the collision you refer to with the underwater mountain produced the death of an MM2.  Both tragic incidents that yes, scar the Navy's reputation; however, I don't think this is the right forum to use these instances to bolster your opinion.

I'm not even going to smite you for this...but I want to. 

Yes no doubt that this is crossing a line.


Justin

[Marlin]

LM,
I respect your opinions regarding a different perspective on the Navy.  I appreciate your willingness to help out SN Bass.  I will however, ask you publicly to stop the nonsense I read above.  If you haven't forgotten, there were nine innocent lives lost in the collision of the USS GREENVILLE and the Ehime Maru.
Also, the collision you refer to with the underwater mountain produced the death of an MM2.  Both tragic incidents that yes, scar the Navy's reputation; however, I don't think this is the right forum to use these instances to bolster your opinion.

I'm not even going to smite you for this...but I want to. 

I see no reason to respect his opinion and as far as smiting him I would refer to a quote from Waynes World "If you feel like you have to hurl, blow chunks dude". He does have a point but it is couched in language that I have heard from slackers in the Navy and in the commercial world.

[Marlin]

Hey guys I recently enlisted into the Navy Nuclear Field and I would like to know, what are some of the bad and the good things about this program after I get out of the schooling.  I heard that there is a lot of work involved which does not necessarily bother me much, but, I would like to know if that is shifts being longer, more days a week, or just harder work with a normal shift.  Also, I have heard that we get an entirely different pay scale, is this true?  Also, is it good or bad.

I just would like to hear the answers to those particular questions plus whatever else you guys might think I should know about the program.

SN Bass your thread has been highjacked and I am one of the main culprits so I would like to appologize for that. I think a trip through the Navy forum threads "Getting in" "Staying in" and "Getting out" will give you plenty of information from a diverse group of posters. Good luck, as with anything in life it will be what you make it.

[rumrunner]

SN Bass your thread has been highjacked and I am one of the main culprits so I would like to apologize for that.

I am guilty too, and apologize for my part of the hijacking.  I should know better since I also run a couple of forums,  and hate it when a thread goes off on a tangent.  Good luck on your future, SN Bass.  And remember - your time in the nuclear Navy isn't about what we grizzled old squids think of it, it is what you make of it.
 

[SN Bass]

Thanks guys for all of your help and opinions and such.  It is cool that this went off topic somewhat but I see that happen to almost all topics here so it is not much of a problem 

[Preciousblue1965]

Just remember to "get hot" because you're dink. HAHAHAHAHA

[JustinHEMI05]

Thanks guys for all of your help and opinions and such.  It is cool that this went off topic somewhat but I see that happen to almost all topics here so it is not much of a problem 

We have a winner! I was about to say that it seems that every topic in navy nukes degenerates into a slug fest. This kid should be fine. 

Justin

[hamsamich]

I agree we did get off topic somewhat, but it all indirectly at least related to positives and negatives of stuff in nuclear power, or at least to the "verification" of what somebody said about it.  people get emotional sometimes about stuff they care about.  I think this thread shows the positives and negatives of working with navy nukes, sorta like what justin was aluding to.

[SN Bass]

Guys I do have one more question.  During schooling do you get any leave like over the holidays or anything.  It is just hard to imagine 2 years with no leave   

Thanks in advance.

[mlslstephens]

Guys I do have one more question.  During schooling do you get any leave like over the holidays or anything.  It is just hard to imagine 2 years with no leave   

Thanks in advance.

Yes, leave is a right, not a privilege.  But I don't want you to think you can take your leave anytime you feel like it because you can't.  There are some exceptions to what I'm about to say, but for the most part this is the way it works.  Typically, between schools, leave is able to be taken.  If you are in A school or power school at Christmas time, both of these schools shut down for the holidays giving you another opportunity to take leave.  Prototype only shuts down for two days at Christmas and two days at New Years and depending on what shift cycle you are in depends on the number of days you would be able to take leave...if you are ahead of the curve.  After prototype, there is considerable time for you to take leave if your boat/ship doesn't need you right away and typically they dont'.  So, if you do the math, you will see that it is real easy to go negative before hitting your first boat. [2.5 days of leave earned for every month you serve] 
Hope this helps. 

[rumrunner]

I remember "travel time" once depended on your stated mode of transportation.  Not sure if they still do it that way, but in 1979 I was on a Gearing class destroyer in San Diego and although I didn't have a car I told them I was driving to Orlando for NPS (with another nuke student on the same ship).  I think they gave us 7 days travel time or something like that.  Anyway, I flew home to upstate NY for a few days and then flew to Florida so I got almost a week of vacation and it didn't cost me any leave. 

[Cycoticpenguin]

I remember "travel time" once depended on your stated mode of transportation.  Not sure if they still do it that way, but in 1979 I was on a Gearing class destroyer in San Diego and although I didn't have a car I told them I was driving to Orlando for NPS (with another nuke student on the same ship).  I think they gave us 7 days travel time or something like that.  Anyway, I flew home to upstate NY for a few days and then flew to Florida so I got almost a week of vacation and it didn't cost me any leave. 

still get travel time. 1 day for every (i want to say 400  but im not positive) 4 or 500 miles. If you have even 10 miles over the limit for one day, you get a whole extra day.

sn bass - if you want perks in the navy, you need to work for them. I busted my butt at prototype and got shafted. My TC recognized this, and allowed me to take 3 and a half weeks of leave after we started up and I qualified. Then 2 weeks later, went to grad week, and then for 30 days more of leave

I still have 20 days left -.- something aint right haha.