Overcrowded SC Ptype?

[Donte9235]

So the NY plant is'nt taking anymore guys from Pschool, There is a small hold div, but the rest are all being squeezed through SC Ptype. Any ideas on how this is gonna affect training? ELT selection? Bonuses? Low numbers in the fleet?

[Preciousblue1965]

I know exactly how is going to affect training. 

There will be an "unofficial" freeze on failing students on watches due to the fact that there is no way to get all those students through in the time they have unless students pass every single watch they get.  There will be even looser standards than there are now due to there won't be enough time to actually hold students accountable for their knowledge.  Staff members are going to be required to put in 12 hour days in order to handle the increased demand for checkouts, training events, test grading, and helping students understand.  This is on top of the horrendous workload they are already under because of maintenance, and other needs. 

Off crew for students and staff might even go to two shifts, day and night shift to accomodate the extra work load. 

Staff EWS quals are going to be even harder to get due to trying to compete with students for watchbill slots.  Which will eventually lead to EWS qual seekers putting in insane hours trying to get cross crew slots(which is very hard to get).  Same thing for T-EOOW quals. 

ELTs school will probably end up getting either shortenend, or some ELT-Ts will be put on hold as they split the classes up into two sections per class.  ELT training group will probably be putting in day and night shifts. 

ALL of the above will have to be done using the same number of bodies that are currently allowed by the PTM.  I figure that this will lead to a possible increase in DUIs from staff and student, a few wrecks due to fatigue, and possibly some equipment damage.  I truly hope that I am very wrong on these predictions.

[NukeNub]

Maybe the Navy/Bechtel can hire former enlisted nuke instructors as civilian contractors to  augment the training staff. You don't need to seek out engineers, but former instructors that can go back through some refresher training and do stuff like give check outs, proctor and grade exams, conduct training exercises and seminars, etc, etc.

Hell, I could probably do a sat (albeit rusty) primary sample right now and give a check out on chemistry.

[Preciousblue1965]

Maybe the Navy/Bechtel can hire former enlisted nuke instructors as civilian contractors to  augment the training staff. You don't need to seek out engineers, but former instructors that can go back through some refresher training and do stuff like give check outs, proctor and grade exams, conduct training exercises and seminars, etc, etc.

Hell, I could probably do a sat (albeit rusty) primary sample right now and give a check out on chemistry.

not a bad idea.  I really feel that are going to have to address the issure very very soon because if what I predict actually occurs and staff members end up on 12+ hour shifts, I can almost guarantee that anyone who had orders to NPTU in SC is going to be calling their detailer and requesting to change those orders or cancel them outright.  Thus further complicating the matter with even more undermanning. Even if they "force" those guys to go there anyways, what kind of instructors or training program are you going to have with all these bitter people being forced into the pervierbial hell hole.

[JustinHEMI05]

Trust me when I say take caution in what you post about on this site, in so far as the prototype operational capabilities are concerned. I am not saying anyone has said anything out of line yet, just fair warning.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Just so everyone knows that I am not insane, I am not going crazy digging up old threads. There was a post made today by someone that prompted my warning. They apparently took my advice on board and removed their comments.

[HydroDave63]

Just so everyone knows that I am not insane, I am not going crazy digging up old threads. There was a post made today by someone that prompted my warning. They apparently took my advice on board and removed their comments.

"The strawberries, that's where I had them..."

[JustinHEMI05]

  Perfect! Great movie!

Justin

[War Eagle]

I second Justin's warning. I know for a fact that people troll these boards looking for that sort of thing.

[HydroDave63]

You mean like these fresh-faced cadets at the PLA Cyberwarfare academy? naaaah....

http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/chinahackers.png

[War Eagle]

You mean like these fresh-faced cadets at the PLA Cyberwarfare academy? naaaah....

Yeah, those guys too. I was thinking more about the people who can make life hell for a Navy Nuke who says the wrong thing.

[Preciousblue1965]

Yeah, those guys too. I was thinking more about the people who can make life hell for a Navy Nuke who says the wrong thing.

but I already did a tour at Prototype.....

[juggalonic]

This is going to do wonders on Nuke retention.  You know what else is a good idea? Can or reduce all bonuses for these overworked few that staff the prototypes.  Like everything else in such a large bureaucracy, the pendulum will swing.  Too many people get out, bonuses go sky high, too many people reenlist (combined with cut in defense spending) and bonuses go away.

This is troublesome, BUT

but I already did a tour at Prototype.....

Sucks to be those in the pipeline now, but they will have better stories to tell from their experiences.

[Tha Hippo]

Hey you all. I just created my account on here. Ive been browsing the forums for over a year now. I am in prototype down here in SC. I am a mechanic at the end of my fifth week of training. They are definately pushing alot more people through the program. My class is the biggest one to go through prototype ever. We have some 260 students and every class from here on out is getting bigger. Because of the backup in NY prototype i was on hold after power school for 2 months and now there are permanent hold groups after every power school class. They have so many students at NNPTC now that they are giving hold students BAH. Also when I was leaving 0906 was expected to be a 13 section power school class and getting bigger with each class. Just yesterday we removed all of our normal desks in the offcrew classrooms and replaced them with smaller ones so more people could fit in the class. It is crazy how many people are going through. Beginning with our class students are allowed to double up on in rate checkouts so getting qualified and staying ahead of the curve isnt impossible. The staff are working longer hours too to keep people from being DINQ. If there are any other questions I have the skinny on it. But I have one question to ask of anyone that is currently out of the navy and working at a civilian power plant. I want to know if being an ELT is worth it. I dont care about who works longer or anything and i am definately getting out after 6 because there are not any more re-enlistment bonuses. I just want to be as marketable as I can to the civilian market

[withroaj]

I'm still in the Navy, so take this how you want.  Usually you don't make yourself marketable in a competitive, professional field by saying you're definitely quitting your current job while you're still in school. 

[Tha Hippo]

im not saying im going to quit. I am going to fulfill my contract. The job is easy. All the job requires is a little brainpower. All im saying is that i want to be as marketable as i can by the time i get out and im wondering what i have to do. I am just using the navy as a stepping stone for the rest of my life. I just need some helpful guidance as to what the best course is for the rest of my time in the navy as to making my transition into a civilian job as seamless and comfortable as possible. Money is what makes the world go round and i plan on keeping it goin around

[HydroDave63]

1. I am a mechanic at the end of my fifth week of training.

2. If there are any other questions I have the skinny on it.

3. But I have one question to ask of anyone that is currently out of the navy and working at a civilian power plant. I want to know if being an ELT is worth it.

4.   I dont care about who works longer or anything and i am definately getting out after 6 because there are not any more re-enlistment bonuses. I just want to be as marketable as I can to the civilian market

1. With items #1 and #3, I'm sure at least some of the training staff knows who you are, so ...

2. I recommend you strictly observe OPSEC if you do get questions

3. Since there are too many bodies in training and ELT is a rare commodity, part of the competition other than grades might just be your evals, attitude towards staying in, etc. Remember, there is a selection process for a reason, return on investment might play into it

4. 6 and out assumes there will be plum jobs aplenty, just waiting to be picked from the tree with cool morning dew still upon them. Without EWS, ELT or a degree when you reach EAOS...not so much.

[Smooth Operator]

1. With items #1 and #3, I'm sure at least some of the training staff knows who you are, so ...

2. I recommend you strictly observe OPSEC if you do get questions

3. Since there are too many bodies in training and ELT is a rare commodity, part of the competition other than grades might just be your evals, attitude towards staying in, etc. Remember, there is a selection process for a reason, return on investment might play into it

4. 6 and out assumes there will be plum jobs aplenty, just waiting to be picked from the tree with cool morning dew still upon them. Without EWS, ELT or a degree when you reach EAOS...not so much.

ELT is worth it. It has set me up for an integrated involvement in nuclear power. I have experienced ELT in its three distinct commericial jobs (Chemistry, Radiation Protection, and Operations) and it has allowed me to build ties between depts. faster because I can speak the language between techs of all 3 flavors.

I regret not getting my EWS when I had the chance, but I did get a degree.

I am going back for a 2nd degree in engineering.

ELT is what you will make of it, don't forget you still have 2 hands to turn valves...outside the PSS.

[DSO]

I'm still in the Navy, so take this how you want.  Usually you don't make yourself marketable in a competitive, professional field by saying you're definitely quitting your current job while you're still in school.  

Cheez--the "digitness" makes my stomach hurt--not everyone wants to be a friggin "CPO" or stay in beyond 6 yrs--Saying you have plans to get out has nothing to do with your marketability in the civilian world--just marketability on making khaki maybe

[JustinHEMI05]

I'm still in the Navy, so take this how you want.  Usually you don't make yourself marketable in a competitive, professional field by saying you're definitely quitting your current job while you're still in school.  

I personally find it refreshing that someone actually admits they have definite plans to only use the Navy to get to the next level. Nothing wrong with honesty and there is nothing wrong with his plan. There is no requirement to pretend that you intend on making a career out of the Navy (although I admit, he may have to in order to get higher quals).

As for marketability, I have to go with what hydro said. Try your best to get EWS quals. ELT might help, but it depends on a lot of things, but I generally agree with what Jason K said, being an ex-ELT myself. Being a 6 year nuke is the biggest thing. It will at least allow you to apply for NLO jobs and the like. But as someone has said before, 6 and out nukes are a dime a dozen, so try to make yourself stand out from the rest somehow. EWS, ELT, degree, as many schools as you can get, etc.

Good luck and thanks for your service! Thank you for being honest with us and yourself, as well!

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

Hey you all. I just created my account on here. Ive been browsing the forums for over a year now. I am in prototype down here in SC. I am a mechanic at the end of my fifth week of training. They are definately pushing alot more people through the program. My class is the biggest one to go through prototype ever. We have some 260 students and every class from here on out is getting bigger. Because of the backup in NY prototype i was on hold after power school for 2 months and now there are permanent hold groups after every power school class. They have so many students at NNPTC now that they are giving hold students BAH. Also when I was leaving 0906 was expected to be a 13 section power school class and getting bigger with each class. Just yesterday we removed all of our normal desks in the offcrew classrooms and replaced them with smaller ones so more people could fit in the class. It is crazy how many people are going through. Beginning with our class students are allowed to double up on in rate checkouts so getting qualified and staying ahead of the curve isnt impossible. The staff are working longer hours too to keep people from being DINQ. If there are any other questions I have the skinny on it. But I have one question to ask of anyone that is currently out of the navy and working at a civilian power plant. I want to know if being an ELT is worth it. I dont care about who works longer or anything and i am definately getting out after 6 because there are not any more re-enlistment bonuses. I just want to be as marketable as I can to the civilian market

you know what the worst part about this post is.....

This is almost exactly what was predicted to happen.  Staff working longer hours simply to keep students ahead of the curve.  Lower standards in In-Rate checkouts now being doubled up.  The increased class sizes have to be having a negative effect on training levels, and so on and so forth.  Why doesn't someone see the writing on the wall and realize that they can "slice and dice" their way out of this problem by simply re-upping the standards to what they used to be, thus reducing class sizes.  Yea I know, they will only end up running into a shortage somewhere down the line. 

[HydroDave63]

Once that "Building  65" is up on keelblocks for Decom in ~2013 , it should be possible to raise standards when the number of billets goes down sharply

[Preciousblue1965]

Once that "Building  65" is up on keelblocks for Decom in ~2013 , it should be possible to raise standards when the number of billets goes down sharply

That is assuming we don't have many more Ike or Roosevelt incidents that lead to several personnel being "denuked" or worse. 

[NHOY]

job is easy. All the job requires is a little brainpower.

First of all you are in the pipeline still, you have no clue on what the job is yet.  Second the job is not easy in the Fleet, it is only easy to the S-bags, those who continue to strive to be the best whether that is for a 6 year contrat or 30 years of service know that it is a hard job.  And my third and final point is yes brainpower is a vital requirement of our job but it takes a lot more than just brains, how about work ethic, and integrity. 

[withroaj]

Cheez--the "digitness" makes my stomach hurt--not everyone wants to be a friggin "CPO" or stay in beyond 6 yrs--Saying you have plans to get out has nothing to do with your marketability in the civilian world--just marketability on making khaki maybe

Well, I stepped in poo here.  I'm not in this game gunning for CPO, and I'm not the type to say that anyone/everyone should do the same.  I would consider myself far from being a diggit, as well.  I see myself as more of a realist when it comes to Navy matters.  I don't imagine I'll stay in the Navy past my current EAOS (unless some great shore duty opens up -- pretty unlikely), but I don't base that on just five weeks of Prototype.  At that point it seems better to focus on finishing quals than post-Navy employment (though it is probably more important to plan to get out than it is to plan on staying in...).  I would also say that if you won't reenlist because the bonuses are gone, why would you reenlist at all?  A big chunk of change in your checking account won't make the job any better, right?

The lack of bonuses is a temporary thing.  I'd imagine that next fiscal year will hold another 90k fire sale on nuke bonuses, and that the retention goals will still be met.  I think the lack of bonuses as it is now will work out better for people.  If they have to wait until bonus season they might have the operational experience to make a decision in spite of the dollar bills waving in their faces.

/backpedaling rant

[HydroDave63]

I'd imagine that next fiscal year will hold another 90k fire sale on nuke bonuses, and that the retention goals will still be met. 

I'll wager 100 quatloos ( or a warm, glazed buttery Johnson's Cinnamon Roll™ ) that decom staffing aside, that the rampdown on Bldg. 65 staffing gets built in, therefore bonuses prolly go back to the 40-60k top as seen years earlier. Some attrition is good.

[Wanna Know Mom]

On a side note here....what percent (and what mix of skills/experience) of the nuke staff stays with a ship when it is decommissioned? 
Kathy VPNNM

[Tha Hippo]

well i am definately not a slack ass as you are all saying. I work very hard. I have put in way more hours than demanded from me since A school. I have gotten great evols and have shown out among my piers to my superiors. I am very well known in the command and if you ask anyone they will say I am definately earning my paycheck. All im saying is that i would like some direction in my navy career as to when I get out I can get a well paying job. Im not even saying it has to be at a power plant. I plan on being EWS qualified and earning my degree using my GI bill and also getting credits while in the service. Just on hold I earned 12 credits so I never stop working. As far as the quality of training we get it has not went down in the least. Just in my power school class we lost 60 people and 10 out of my A school class due to academics. I ask instructors all the time if the program is easier before and all of them tell me that it is the exact same material just that the instructors are better trained and more involved

[HydroDave63]

I have gotten great evols and have shown out among my piers to my superiors.

You may have a promising career amongst your piers    

"I'll have the Mahi Mahi, and the lady will have a Shrimp Newburg..."

[JustinHEMI05]

well i am definately not a slack ass as you are all saying. I work very hard. I have put in way more hours than demanded from me since A school. I have gotten great evols and have shown out among my piers to my superiors. I am very well known in the command and if you ask anyone they will say I am definately earning my paycheck. All im saying is that i would like some direction in my navy career as to when I get out I can get a well paying job. Im not even saying it has to be at a power plant. I plan on being EWS qualified and earning my degree using my GI bill and also getting credits while in the service. Just on hold I earned 12 credits so I never stop working. As far as the quality of training we get it has not went down in the least. Just in my power school class we lost 60 people and 10 out of my A school class due to academics. I ask instructors all the time if the program is easier before and all of them tell me that it is the exact same material just that the instructors are better trained and more involved

I never said you were a slack ass. 

You will be fine.

6 and out FTW! 

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

well i am definately not a slack ass as you are all saying. I work very hard. I have put in way more hours than demanded from me since A school. I have gotten great evols and have shown out among my piers to my superiors. I am very well known in the command and if you ask anyone they will say I am definately earning my paycheck. All im saying is that i would like some direction in my navy career as to when I get out I can get a well paying job. Im not even saying it has to be at a power plant. I plan on being EWS qualified and earning my degree using my GI bill and also getting credits while in the service. Just on hold I earned 12 credits so I never stop working. As far as the quality of training we get it has not went down in the least. Just in my power school class we lost 60 people and 10 out of my A school class due to academics. I ask instructors all the time if the program is easier before and all of them tell me that it is the exact same material just that the instructors are better trained and more involved

No offense but do you really think that the instructors are REALLY going to tell you the truth on that matter?  All you have to do is simply find anywhere that Navy Nukes post in large numbers and you are going to hear 900 examples of how the course is easier now for very one that says it is harder or the same.  Yea you may have lost 60 our of power school but that is out of how many?  300? 400? I fully support you ambitious nature in what you plan on doing with your career.  However every good nuke always has a plan B and Plan C for when Plan A doesnt' work.  Sometimes those plans will fall apart due in no part to your own effort.  Sometimes timing is just really really crappy and there is no way around it.  I was set to start EWS quals at NPTU, but had to wait for several months because we kept getting new people in that went into EWS quals directly due to being EWS/PPWS qual'd on their ships/boats.  So by the time I got in, it was almost a full year later and only had 8 months left after I qual'd.  That is also about the time I tore up my knee so I never really stood the watch. 

In Summary, ensure that you have a plan B/C, don't take everything that a Staff Member says at face value when you are asking as a student about the standards of the program, and ensure that you use the correct versions of homophones, since they jump out in text form whereas they might go unnoticed in spoken language. 

Last but not least......

BCF(Be Cool Fool, Mr. T circa 1980s)

[NHOY]

I ask instructors all the time if the program is easier before and all of them tell me that it is the exact same material just that the instructors are better trained and more involved

I just recently transfered from NFAS and as a former Instructor I can tell you that the program is much easier than before.  There is only one fact that I need, even though there are many, to prove this.  That is the fact that attrition is only 5%-6%, and when a section's attrition increases over that goal the ability to drop someone out of the section becomes near impossible.  It is good that you have goals to succeed but I will say that it will be very hard for you to be a good nuke while getting your degree at sea and pursuing EWS all at the same time.  It is not impossible but depending on the boat and the associated schedule it might be close.  6 years and out or 30 years and out it really doesn't matter as long as you do your best to be the best and realize that your goals can and will change.  But all in all good luck to you, I hope that you do achieve all that you want to in this program.

[goobs22xx]

As far as the quality of training we get it has not went down in the least.

You really have no idea what you're commenting about here.

I ask instructors all the time if the program is easier before and all of them tell me that it is the exact same material just that the instructors are better trained and more involved

I wouldn't believe anyone based on their direct answer to this question.

You can, however, talk to people about their training experiences and find out how vastly different the climate at Prototype is now than a decade ago.