can't decide if i want to STAR

[mlslstephens]

Just qualified prototype.   Orders for ELT.  Had option to stay for SPU or ELT, chose ELT. 

Assume SPU would still be an option after qualify ELT - maybe wrong assumption . 

One of the issues I am trying to understand is:  Does the extra 2 years (STAR) really mean 2 more years in the fleet or is a substantial part of it really going to be some land job?  Is that amount of time significantly changed by whether I accept SPU or end up on staff later?
Am I correct in assuming that my most likely shore duty will be nuke pipeline staff (this is probably the preferred job from the options I understand are currently available)?

Is there any difference for a nub on a sub between being MM3 and MM2 when the promotion is expected before qualifying (is nub the biggest factor, not rank)?

TJ, first of all congratulations on getting through the pipeline.  No small deed and even though many people on this forum have already accomplished said goal...you deserve your congratulations as well. 
Second, congratulations on making a decision.  You chose ELT.  Great job.  Now you have another school to complete.  Check back with us when you qualify ELT and I will again tell you congratulations.

Now, for all the other questions you have.  Go with your gut and go with what you "want".  Do you want to STAR?  Do you want to be a JSI? (for you old timers, we don't call them SPUs anymore...still waiting on the PTM to catch up to this change)  Make a decision and go with it.
Life is a journey...not a destination.  When you go whitewater rafting, you go where the river takes you and yes, you have some control; but not much.  This is how the Navy works.  Yes, you have some control on what you do; but mostly the Navy owns you for a few years.  That is okay, just go with the flow and enjoy every single day.  Make the most of every situation no matter how much the situation stinks. (This is the only thing that kept me sane during my last tour at NPTU) 
Looking back on my career, it didn't go anything like I thought it would when I graduated from prototype.  The river took many unexpected turns; but looking back it was a fun and exciting journey.
I've said it before and I will say it again, I was planning on doing 6 and out but ended up staying 22.  I don't regret a single step I took. Nor do I regret getting out.  That was the best decision for me and my family because I'm doing what I want to be doing and we are all having a blast!

Final thought...trust yourself and enjoy.  I wish you all the best.

[DDMurray]

I re-enlisted after I had made E-5 and did one patrol.  I did it for the money and because I wanted to eventually be an NPS instructor and get my degree while on shore duty.  I waived my C school (this was in 1986 when you could still go to EM C-7 school) to transfer off the boat a year early.  This put me four years on the boat, rolling to NPS at my six year point in the navy.  While at NPS I earned my BS (in business) by going to school at night.  While on shore duty I made CPO and ended up staying in 24 years. 

So you can reenlist and not spend any more time at sea, but there's a risk you could do more time at sea.  If you delay re-enlisting there's a risk you could obligate yourself past your shore duty tour.  If you decide to re-enlist, do so prior to your four year point, otherwise you risk losing two years of SRB.  If you re-enlist early and hate your job in the navy, you may regret your decision.  In any case, make a decision and don't look back. 

Whether you stay in or get out, the same things that will set you up for success when you get out, will help you be successful in the navy.  Never, ever forget that.

Derek

 

[xforcehunter]

Is there any difference for a nub on a sub between being MM3 and MM2 when the promotion is expected before qualifying (is nub the biggest factor, not rank)?

I went to the boat as an E-5 NUB.  I still hot racked (sometimes in the torpedo room)and cranked.  Nobody cared about my rank...a NUB is a NUB!  You gotta get your fish and start standing some watch before anybody will care what rank you are.

[TJ Nuke]

Thank you for the perspective.

[Tylus]

For me, any First Termer who doesn't Star is just playing a stupid game.  This applies for everyone.  Love or Hate the Navy.  Trust me, 6 yrs or 8yrs...it flies by.  2 measly years will mean nothing.


You have to factor in several things.
1.  E-4 vs. E-5 base pay
2.  E-4 vs. E-5 "supplemental" pays
3.  Bonus
4.  Shore Duty


1. Base Pay
        Based on the 2009 pay schedules:

        E-4 @ 2yrs gets $1828.00 monthly
        E-4 over 2yrs gets $1921.00 monthly

        E-5 @ 2yrs gets $1994.00 monthly
        E-5 over 2yrs gets $2127.00 montly

        almost $2,500 more per year in base pay alone



2.  Additional Pays (assume over 2yrs)

        E-4
                Sub Pay - $95
                Sea Pay - $70 (1yr or less of Sea Time)
                Pro Pay - $150

        E-5
                Sub Pay - $155
                Sea Pay - $70 (1yr or less of Sea Time)
                Pro Pay - $150
                BAH      - $588 (then adjusted for Region)
                Comrats - $324

                E-4 = $315 monthly, $3780 yearly
                E-5 = $1287 monthly, $15,444 yearly



3.  Bonus
                Used to be typical of "Baby Nukes" to get anywhere from $30,000 to $75,000...for only 2 yrs.  EM's are getting bent over a bit, but I believe the $45,000-$60,000 bonus structure is still available

                Re-enlist in a tax free zone, and you are looking at anywhere from $15,000 to $33,000 in one lump sum up front.  Then the remainder split out for the next 4-5 yrs.


4.  Shore Duty
                Why would you voluntarily give the Navy 4-5 yrs on a boat and then get nothing from it.  Submarines suck...alot.  Get some sort of reward.  Scary thing is, they are still better than Carriers.

                Get the Shore Duty you have earned.  Get your Degree.  A B.S. is easily achieved while on Shore Duty.  There is no reason to get out of the Navy without a degree...especially directly from a ship.






IMO, you have have your cake, and eat it too.  If you are smart about it, you stand to pocket a Significant amount of money, and then basically have 2-3yrs of paid Vacation (Shore Duty).

Not even counting the Bonus...just the advancement to E-5, Star Re-Enlistment nets you an additional $105,000 over a 6 year period

    
          and that is without calculating the increase in pays you would recieve for each career milestone...like >4 yrs, >6 yrs...the Sea Pay Kicker...Senior Sup Pro-Pay.


Also, by Star Re-Enlistment, you are shortcutting the path to Advance.  It puts you that much closer to E-6...I make alot more money than a E-4...alot


You'll still be a lowly Nub...but as a Qualified 2nd...life is pretty good.  They are the backbone of the Navy.



for the Naysayers:  I understand if you hate the Navy...but don't let your bad attitude influence others.  Present both sides of the coin, and allow them to figure an answer themselves.

[JustinHEMI05]

Actually, STARing is for chumps, IMO.  But I see you drank the kool aid. 

Your idea of a paid vacation is laughable, at best. .

When in doubt, six and out.

But again, its all just my opinion based on the fact that I was a STAR chump. 

Justin

[HydroDave63]

For me, any First Termer who doesn't Star is just playing a stupid game.  This applies for everyone. 

Perhaps they want to see what life at sea is like first.

[HydroDave63]

        E-5 over 2yrs gets $2127.00 montly

        almost $2,500 more per year in base pay alone

One would be hard pressed to find an entry-level nuclear plant aux operator spot anywhere in the country paying less than 20/hr on Day One. Heck, in most parts of the country, even a coal plant entry operator or coal handler pays 18 or so to start.

So, at 18/hr, that's 2880/mo if he only works straight time. Why, that's $753 monthly ! more than the illustrious "go-STAR-buy-a-car-put-on-a-stripe(and a tattoo)-and-you'll-go-far" plan.

Seems that Bluto-nomics isn't working quite right when a Coal Handler can make more than Joe Navy.... 

[JustinHEMI05]

One would be hard pressed to find an entry-level nuclear plant aux operator spot anywhere in the country paying less than 20/hr on Day One. Heck, in most parts of the country, even a coal plant entry operator or coal handler pays 18 or so to start.

So, at 18/hr, that's 2880/mo if he only works straight time. Why, that's $753 monthly ! more than the illustrious "go-STAR-buy-a-car-put-on-a-stripe(and a tattoo)-and-you'll-go-far" plan.

Seems that Bluto-nomics isn't working quite right when a Coal Handler can make more than Joe Navy.... 

Indeed. And that's worst case. NLOs at my plant start at 27/hr and far exceed any bonus the navy pays for STAR in short time.

Justin

[Tylus]

One would be hard pressed to find an entry-level nuclear plant aux operator spot anywhere in the country paying less than 20/hr on Day One. Heck, in most parts of the country, even a coal plant entry operator or coal handler pays 18 or so to start.

So, at 18/hr, that's 2880/mo if he only works straight time. Why, that's $753 monthly ! more than the illustrious "go-STAR-buy-a-car-put-on-a-stripe(and a tattoo)-and-you'll-go-far" plan.

Seems that Bluto-nomics isn't working quite right when a Coal Handler can make more than Joe Navy.... 

nice way to selectively cut and present an argument

that is an E-5 getting paid $2127 per month on base pay alone.  His actual paycheck monthly before taxes is $3,418 with 2 yrs of service


When I was an E-5 under 6yrs of service on my Boat...I was contemplating getting out.  After doing the math, I had to get a minimum of $23.00 per hour.  Just to break even.  That wasn't even factoring in the costs for Dental/Medical

[Tylus]

Look, I didn't mean to start an argument.  But I have issues with the huge numbers of people claiming to be Nukes...and then subsequently bashing the Nuke Program.

It has alot of huge issues.  I agree.  But it isn't the horrible monstrosity that people claim it is.  There are Problems, and then there are People Problems...IMO alot of people are "made" Nukes who should have been weeded out of the program.  They simply aren't capable of the job...or were never of a "Military" mind and would be miserable people in any job, in any Branch of service.


And then there are people with legitimate gripes...I've got a few myself.  That is why I am 50/50 for finishing the final 8 yrs I'd need after my contract expires at my 12yr points.


But crying about working long hours, or being deployed...that is part and parcel of the Military.






Back on topic:

Perhaps they want to see what life at sea is like first.

agreed

But you are pretty much going to get the taste of Sea life within the first 6 months...waiting to re-enlist only costs you money.

To maximize the amount of money you will recieve, the optimal time schedule is on the 2yr, 6yr and 10yr anniversaries.  Waiting is only lowering the bonus amount you will recieve.  I myself waited till my 3yr point to Star.

I wish someone had sat me down and explained the benefits like I did in my prior post.  It cost me a year of advancements and much money because I was determined to make E-5 off the test.  I know better now.

Actually, STARing is for chumps, IMO.  But I see you drank the kool aid. 

Your idea of a paid vacation is laughable, at best. .

When in doubt, six and out.

But again, its all just my opinion based on the fact that I was a STAR chump. 

Justin

I'm on my paid vacation (Shore Duty)in Pearl Harbor right now.  My latest day is 1:00 p.m.  I get to see my wife/kids, I work 5 days a week.  I actually get time for PT, and Medical, and College

vs the 9-10 pm every night when I was on the boat.  Did that for almost 6 yrs...there is a Green Pasture after the boat.  If you went to NPTU...ouch.


if you have issues with the Navy I understand.  But at least approach things objectively.  Calling me a Chump is nice and all, but it gets you nowhere.  I'm at least open minded and allow myself to see both sides of the issue.  Wish I could say the same for you.

Now if you took the cookie, and then subsequently blew the entire Bonus on stupid stuff...it ain't the Navy's fault.  No reason to be pissed at anybody but yourself.



being a pissed off little baby about the Navy gets you nothing.  Just crappy evals, and your attitude drags down others.



thanks for negative Karma...whoever might have done it.  I only presented another side of the coin...sorry that I can't join the "Hate the Navy" bandwagon and display my Paperclip.

[HydroDave63]

+karma for having the balls to stand your ground in this crowd,.....

thanks for standing the watch,....

There goes Marssim being the Good Cop again.....

[Wydryd99]

It looks like you'll have some time to think it over.  SRBs have been suspended until the next FY.  Just read a message on that yesterday.  Unless you want to re-up for the free pen only.

[G-reg]

waiting to re-enlist only costs you money.

You really aren't even aware of how much you presume in this one single statement, are you?  Are you the same guy that you called objective and open-minded?  Wow.
Maybe - just maybe - there's a different side to the "waiting" issue than the one you're talking about.  Can you think of a different side to this issue on your own, Enlightened One?

I'm at least open minded and allow myself to see both sides of the issue.  Wish I could say the same for you.

P.S.  I have served with several people who deliberately waited to reenlist - and yes, they accomplished a purpose by waiting.

[G-reg]

thanks for negative Karma...whoever might have done it.  I only presented another side of the coin...

For me, any First Termer who doesn't Star is just playing a stupid game.

If you're going to play a bashing game, why would you be surprised to find yourself getting bashed back?  Or perhaps they just presented their side of the coin?  (And if you may be wondering, no it wasn't me.  Not yet, anyway.)

[JustinHEMI05]

Look, I didn't mean to start an argument.  But I have issues with the huge numbers of people claiming to be Nukes...and then subsequently bashing the Nuke Program.

It has alot of huge issues.  I agree.  But it isn't the horrible monstrosity that people claim it is.  There are Problems, and then there are People Problems...IMO alot of people are "made" Nukes who should have been weeded out of the program.  They simply aren't capable of the job...or were never of a "Military" mind and would be miserable people in any job, in any Branch of service.


And then there are people with legitimate gripes...I've got a few myself.  That is why I am 50/50 for finishing the final 8 yrs I'd need after my contract expires at my 12yr points.


But crying about working long hours, or being deployed...that is part and parcel of the Military.






Back on topic:agreed

But you are pretty much going to get the taste of Sea life within the first 6 months...waiting to re-enlist only costs you money.

To maximize the amount of money you will recieve, the optimal time schedule is on the 2yr, 6yr and 10yr anniversaries.  Waiting is only lowering the bonus amount you will recieve.  I myself waited till my 3yr point to Star.

I wish someone had sat me down and explained the benefits like I did in my prior post.  It cost me a year of advancements and much money because I was determined to make E-5 off the test.  I know better now.

I'm on my paid vacation (Shore Duty)in Pearl Harbor right now.  My latest day is 1:00 p.m.  I get to see my wife/kids, I work 5 days a week.  I actually get time for PT, and Medical, and College

vs the 9-10 pm every night when I was on the boat.  Did that for almost 6 yrs...there is a Green Pasture after the boat.  If you went to NPTU...ouch.


if you have issues with the Navy I understand.  But at least approach things objectively.  Calling me a Chump is nice and all, but it gets you nowhere.  I'm at least open minded and allow myself to see both sides of the issue.  Wish I could say the same for you.

Now if you took the cookie, and then subsequently blew the entire Bonus on stupid stuff...it ain't the Navy's fault.  No reason to be pissed at anybody but yourself.



being a pissed off little baby about the Navy gets you nothing.  Just crappy evals, and your attitude drags down others.



thanks for negative Karma...whoever might have done it.  I only presented another side of the coin...sorry that I can't join the "Hate the Navy" bandwagon and display my Paperclip.

No one is pissed off, no one had bad evals or a bad attitude and no one blew their SRB. I also didn't call you a chump. I said STARing is for chumps, and it is. 

Oh I didn't give you negative karma either. I don't have a problem with people stating their case and standing up for it, I respect it.

Relax.

Justin

[DDMurray]

No one is pissed off, no one had bad evals or a bad attitude and no one blew their SRB. I also didn't call you a chump. I said STARing is for chumps, and it is. 

The navy is not for everyone.  The nuclear navy is for even less people.  The nuclear submarine navy is for even less.  If everybody who stayed in is a chump, who would you have on watch, doing the mission, a mission more important than most people know or admit to?

Don't get pissed, re-enlist!

Derek

[Tylus]

For anybody considering Star.  Please get as far away from the Negative Whiners as you can.  Don't listen to them.

      Instead, look at both sides of the coin.  Get a Pro and a Con list going.  Talk to the guys who have been in for longer than their first term.  Ask them about Shore Duty, the benefits...and of course the Money.

      Conversely, ask them about the Bad aspects.  Get an informed decision.



It isn't a easy decision.  I said it above, and I'll re-iterate.  Don't get out of the Navy with nothing to show for it.  If you do 6 yrs (especially on a Sub), you are very unlikely to have your degree...and you just spent about 4 1/2 yrs on your boat.
       So why not get a big chunk of $$$, and then get 2-3 yrs of time for that degree?



Whatever you do, Don't let some little pissant run your life.  Make the decision yourself.  The Naysayers aren't happy...good for them.  The job does suck.
      But I personally have been to lots of cool places, done incredible things, and I get paid very well for a relatively easy job.  I met lots of great people I hope to be friends with for a lifetime.  I'm proud of what I've done, and hope to continue doing so.


Off-Topic

You really aren't even aware of how much you presume in this one single statement, are you?  Are you the same guy that you called objective and open-minded?  Wow.
Maybe - just maybe - there's a different side to the "waiting" issue than the one you're talking about.  Can you think of a different side to this issue on your own, Enlightened One?

P.S.  I have served with several people who deliberately waited to reenlist - and yes, they accomplished a purpose by waiting.

If you are a 6 and Out person...more power to ya.  It ain't for everybody.  I was almost one of ya.


But if you even sligthly think you are going to want Shore Duty, or stay 20yrs...waiting only hurts you.  Do the math.  It gains you nothing but lost time on promotions, a huge loss of money...and if your NCC screws you over, a Sea Tour after your Shore Duty.
      I've actually got 2 of my sailers dealing with that right now.  They've got 1yr of Sea Duty left after their Shore Duty...and it is all their faults.  But you'd never know it according to them and how the big mean old Navy f'd 'em over.


There is more to life than being a PaperClip person with a negative attitude.  All you do is ruin other people days and underways.  Nobody wants to live with it.

      I screwed up about 2yrs of my career with that B.S.  At some point I pulled my head out of my a$$ and just shut up....surprisingly, things got better.  The Khaki watches you.  Don't be a pain in there butts, and you'd be amazed at the outcome.




I appologize for the direction I steered this.  But at least it got more out there than "screw the navy" and such

[Fermi2]

If you're a decent nuke steer clear of STAR and get out. STAR will cost you a LOT of money.

[Neutron Whisperer]

Just happened this week: the navy has met its numbers for the fiscal year.  There's a freeze on SRB until October.  Looks like they got the numbers they were shooting for a couple months ago when they had the temporarily elevated multiples.

[HydroDave63]

      But I personally have been to lots of cool places, done incredible things, and I get paid very well for a relatively easy job. 

[G-reg]

All right, Enlightened One, here come the training wheels for you...

If you are a 6 and Out person...more power to ya.  It ain't for everybody.  I was almost one of ya.

If I am a six-and-out person?  Where would you get that information from?  Perhaps from all of the voluminous reading you've done on this website?  I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that a considerable percentage of the material you've read on this site consists of your own writing.  There are almost 100,000 posts in this forum; as for myself, I read thousands and thousands of them before I ever made my first post here.  Had you done something similar to that yourself, it would have been very obvious (because that ridiculous statement above would have never been posted).  But instead, it has become apparent on this forum that your main interest is simply the sound of your own voice.

But if you even slightly think you are going to want Shore Duty, or stay 20yrs...waiting only hurts you.  Do the math.  It gains you nothing but lost time on promotions, a huge loss of money...and if your NCC screws you over, a Sea Tour after your Shore Duty.

I'm going to list for you some examples of benefits which can be had from waiting to reenlist.  And depending on the individual involved in the decision-making at the time, some of the things below can actually be more important than the extra money the Navy gives you.  You should open your mind at this point to the fact that not everyone on the planet worships at the altar of Direct Deposit (nor should they have to).

Case #1:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, in order to use it as a bargaining chip to help in negotiating a set of follow-on orders that the individual would like.
Case #2:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, in order to preserve his/her option to get out of the Navy if the only follow-on orders to be offered aren't worth staying in for (in that person's eyes), even with the extra money.
Case #3:  Individual chooses to hold off on reenlisting, because they have a situation going on with their family; depending on the outcome of the family situation, reenlisting may or may not be a very, very bad (or good) thing.  However, the decision cannot be made promptly at the two-year point because the situation has not worked itself out at home yet; there just isn't sufficient information at the present time to make an all-around, well-informed decision.


Go on ahead and ask me if I made any of those cases up...  Certainly, the individuals in each case above made fewer than the absolute maximum number of dollar bills that they possibly could have made; but for every individual I've known that fell into one of the cases above, they got something even more important than the money by waiting - they got the freedom to do whatever they damn well wanted to do (or not do) with their reenlistment.  Some things are more important to some people than money.  Does that fact bother you?  Does it strike you as a crying shame that these people get to make decisions like that for themselves, instead of you making their decisions for them - what with your "both sides" enlightenment and all?  And shouldn't it seem obvious to everyone that you ought to have the authority to reenlist any sailor in the nuclear Navy at their 2-year point, because you and only you have all of the right answers; you and only you possess sufficient wisdom to see that it's utterly stupid for anybody to not reenlist at their two year point?

Whatever you do, Don't let some little pissant run your life.

Is that a universal statement, or are the pissants in your camp specifically excluded?  Is this how you convince people of the merits of your conclusions?  I certainly applaud your convictions, but get a grip on the fact that somebody can disagree with you and not be completely out of their senses.

I'm coming down hard on you mainly because you are self-aggrandizing and are making broad, general put-downs.  If you clean up your act, you'll see a completely different side of me.  I can (and have) encouraged several people to reenlist in the nuclear Navy - and I did it without slinging the putrid crap you're slinging.

 - Greg

[Fermi2]

Doesn't the Navy still do at least 4 24 hour duty days a month?
Lets see 3400 dollars/96 Hours. Do the math.

I more than made up any Star Reenlistment within 7 months of getting out and today is even more lucrative. If you're gonna stay in because of your commitment to your country then all power to you, but if you STAR because of the money you're a first rate Tool.

[MeterSwangin]

Dude, an average House Tech at Palo Verde, Diablo Canyon or San Onofre makes $40/hr (base plus onus pay, more if earning shift differential.)  They all work at least 1 outage per year, and get some OT during online periods.

A basic RP Tech at these plants brings down more than a nuke LCDR.  That is right...an O-5.  I guarantee it.  First line supes who like OT hit the sweet spot.  I know one in RP who made $205K in 2008.  And it was easy.

I made more my first year out of the navy than my Master Chief made that year.  Reenlistment bonuses are for chumps.  The civilian nuclear industry is in a HISTORIC HUMAN CAPITAL CRISIS.  One would be a fool to miss out now.  People hiring onto the industry now can shoot straight into management at established plants, and will write their own ticket in 10 years when New Nukes hit while everybody retires.

[JustinHEMI05]

If you're a decent nuke steer clear of STAR and get out. STAR will cost you a LOT of money.

UMM I was going to say +1. But its more like;

+150,000 which would conservatively correlate to the amount of money I would have lost the last 2 (TWO) years if I stayed navy, if you looked at only salary. 

Justin