NPUA

[hamsamich]

lets see 1$ times 88 hours a week times 20 weeks times 1000 techs.  I know they are likely billing more hours than this but this is just a startin place...so the profit is at least a couple million if they are clearing a dollar past all the overhead.....don't read anything into these numbers anyone!!!  I just pulled them out of my butt as a starting point.  but heck I wouldn't sneeze at a couple mil a year.  so if they could only make a buck an hour per tech it still seems viable.

[Rennhack]

Actually my statement was $1 a day total

Jim, $1/day is way off.  The other poster is correct. Most companies add 3% to 6% to a billing rate as profit, not to be confused with overhead which can be 6-12%.  Profit is about $1/hr on a $22/hr employee or about $3/hr on a $60/hr employee.

So, if you have 3 techs working a backup contract, 72 hrs a week, for 4 weeks, you just made $216 a week profit ($864 total) on that backup contract for all of that trouble.

As the poster also noted, the economy is in the scale. 

[Smart People]

I was speaking to the perceived mentality.

I'm sure some on this thread would love to hear that Old Blue only makes $1 a day on their techs

Also the idea put out there was that the $12 over the tech's wages was pure profit, no overhead involved.

[retread]

That was the point I was trying to make to the Kool-Aid drinker...

Frank, oh Frank, you're not going to make too many friends with that attitude!  Do you realize you represent the Union on these threads?  How do you figure on getting more support when you are so abrasive here?!  Like SmartPeople (swats nose with rolled up newspaper!)

[Frankie Love]

I know…I’m actually a supporter a person getting a fair wage. The tech companies get more than their fair share which is why I’m a bit curious about some of the responses here. In fact, the obvious tech company suck ups really surprises me. It’s a far cry from the Chuck Pierce NUMANCO days…

[Smart People]

Okay, Back on topic (I think).

I'm guessing that fsennyes is probably close to agreement with your  post.

Invoice $48, tech pay $36...you do the math.

Fortunately someone already did:

It is not possible.

Contracts area bid as such:

Billing Rate = Worker Pay Rate + Costs (Tax's & Insurance) + Overhead + Profit

These costs are fixed percentages.  The amount of money the employer has to pay in Federal & State taxes, FICA, unemployment insurance, and workers comp, are all fixed percentages (Different companies can negotiate different workers comp rates based on their safety record).  The only way to adjust overhead is to fire office employees, and I don’t think we want them to let the payroll lady or the recruiter go.  The only adjustable number is the desired profit, which typically is fixed at ~3% for successful companies.  You could add more profit to your proposal, but then you’ll lose the bid on the contract.  Below are some examples.

Billing Rate = Worker Pay Rate + Costs (Tax's & Insurance) + Overhead + Profit
Billing Rate = $22.50/hr Pay Rate + 22-36% Direct Costs + 6-12% Overhead + 3-6% Profit

Billing Rate = $22.5/hr Pay Rate + $8.10/hr Direct Costs + $1.35/hr Overhead + $0.68/hr Profit

Billing Rate = $32.63/hr

These are realistic numbers, I can't say that these are Bartlett's exact numbers, (probably a few % high, the actual billing rate is probably lower than that above) but they are realistic.

Conclusion:  I don't see how Bartlett could pay a Union $8-$10/hr more than they can bill on their current contract.

Bartlett doesn’t mind paying people more, if they can win the contract.  Because everything else (profit including) are percent multipliers.  When you get paid more, THEY get paid more.

If you get paid $10/hr, your employer has to pay taxes and insurance at ~36% = $3.60/hr, their overhead is ~6% $0.60/hr (again, just an example I don't know their specific numbers, but they are in the ball park) and their profit would be 3% or $0.30/hr, with a billing rate of $14.5/hr.

If you got paid $100 an hour, then Bartlett would make a profit of $3/hr on you instead of 30 cents.  The more you make, the more they make.  They LOVE paying you more.  That means THEY make more.

If they had to pay a Union $5/hr, and you $35 ($40/hr total), Bartlett wouldn't mind, because then their billing rate would be $58/hr, and $1.20/hr of that would be profit, which is better than the $0.68/per hour they are making on you now. (As long as they got the contract awarded... it's more likely that Atlantic would get the contract because they could bill at $33/hr instead of $58/hr.

I’ve posted these numbers before, and how these contracts really work.  People don’t want to believe the facts.  They want to think Bartlett makes $100/hr on them.  It just isn’t true.  If it was, I’d be in the tech rental business.  But at 67.5 cents an hour profit ($27/week on 40 hrs), it’s not worth the hassle.  I’d rather pick up cans along the road.

[Smart People]

How about one standing on a soapbox or speaking from an altar?

Sorry, fsennyes portrays the tech companies as the devil raking money hand over fist over the bodies of the individual worker and calls those who disagree as "the obvious tech company suck ups " and "Kool-Aid drinker"

I'm all for negotiating for better pay and benefits and if the union can do a better job than me for me then I am all for it. Of course you end up working for the union and not necessarily the company. but I digress and I have already been   for that.

I'll get off of my for today.

[Frankie Love]

"Sorry, fsennyes portrays the tech companies as the devil raking money hand over fist over the bodies of the individual worker and calls those who disagree as "the obvious tech company suck ups " and "Kool-Aid drinker""

On the contrary, I think a business should hire employees and make profits. I also agree in fair trade which hasn’t been the case in a while. The “monopoly” company(s) have a nice grip on the situation which I don’t agree with. Collusion has run rampant over the years which people turn a blind eye to so they can make car payments.

[Old Dude]

Truth is Bartlett has a built in overhead expanse clause and profit margin clause in all of their contracts.
Senior techs are being billed at $55/hr for all hours worked.
Anyone can request the contract under the Freedom Of Information Act at TVA a government facility.

[Already Gone]

Truth is Bartlett has a built in overhead expanse clause and profit margin clause in all of their contracts.
Senior techs are being billed at $55/hr for all hours worked.
Anyone can request the contract under the Freedom Of Information Act at TVA a government facility.

I'll bet that the real truth is that you haven't read ALL of Bartlett's contracts.
What you describe is typical for a Federal government contract.  It is absolutely not typical of a commercial contract.
Historically, TVA jobs were outside the norm in that they paid a lot higher than the commercial nukes but no per diem.  I believe that this has changed, but it doesn't necessarily mean that per diem isn't built into the hourly rate.  That used to be common practice, although it is rare these days.
Anyway, $55 is much higher than the normal billing rate for a Sr. RP tech - which is one reason why I don't try to staff those jobs.  To make the juice worth the squeeze you have to operate at very high volume or high gross margin.  You have to spread out your overhead over a lot of techs working a lot of hours in order to turn a net profit and still be able to compete.  What many people don't realize is that Bartlett, Inc. is much bigger than just Bartlett Nuclear.  But even without the other parts of Bartlett, BNI is still big enough to employ economies of scale.

[Old HP]

So getting back on topic.....
Where do we sign up for the $35 & $150  Sr. Tech jobs now? 

                  Old HP

   P.S.  That job does come with a rental car doesn't it?

[Eric_Bartlett]

Truth is Bartlett has a built in overhead expanse clause and profit margin clause in all of their contracts.
Senior techs are being billed at $55/hr for all hours worked.
Anyone can request the contract under the Freedom Of Information Act at TVA a government facility.

Truth is you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about - I'm not going to list out our actual rates as they are proprietary information and I am not authorized to do so but I can tell you you are so far off base that your not even in the park as our rates are substantially lower than what you claim.  You can continue to think what you want and spread the lies all you want, I know the truth and will continue to tell it as long as there are individuals like yourself out there hiding your identity and spreading lies, falsehoods, and half-truths. 

Eric

[Frankie Love]

Whatever...the number moves according to the contract. You are fooling know one. Combined services or just HP. Making enough for the shareholders to be happy. 

[UncaBuffalo]

vote at crystal river yesterday was 12-2 in favor of npua representation.

Thanks for the update!


(And for being an on-topic poster!)

[Already Gone]

Whatever...the number moves according to the contract. You are fooling know one. Combined services or just HP. Making enough for the shareholders to be happy. 

And what are you in this business for?  The Love of the Game?  The betterment of all mankind?  No, you - like the rest of us - go to work to get paid.  So, why make that sound dirty when someone else is doing it?  It is "evil corporate greed" when the company wants to take in a profit.  It is "corruption" when your union wants you to pay dues and assessments.  But, it is "only fair" when you want to double your pay without increasing your skills?
Work on this skill.  Attention to detail.  You are impressing "know one".

[mostlyharmless]

I have tried to avoid this topic but its like trying to drop a bad habit. Look,the truth is that Bartlett has built a successfull business that has employed a lot of people over the years. Whats wrong with that? I still shop at Walmart and the Waltons are billionares. I am not endorsing these companies but they have done what most of us would love to do if we had the forsight and drive to do it; start a business. What profit margin is acceptable? What pay is acceptable? Look at this web site. Blind monkeys with no hands underwater could create this site faster than I could. I don't resent it, and I do endorse this site. I agree to do relatively specific work for a specific wage. I agree to it. I will not work for free. I don't expect anyone else to either. But I do have choice. With  or without a union I will have choice.
Fair pay for fair work.

[Frankie Love]

The "know one" comment was a joke. Sorry you didn't get it beer court. Otherwise I could care less what Bartlett makes. All I was trying to point out was the bs from boy bartlett. Sympathy was not something I was willing to give someone who makes a ton of money. Good for them though. Wish I would have thought of it first.

[Eric_Bartlett]

The "know one" comment was a joke. Sorry you didn't get it beer court. Otherwise I could care less what Bartlett makes. All I was trying to point out was the bs from boy bartlett. Sympathy was not something I was willing to give someone who makes a ton of money. Good for them though. Wish I would have thought of it first.

Once again I get sucked into the fray.  Not looking for sympathy, never have, never will and if you think I was, then your even more lost than your posts lead me to believe you are.  As I have stated in many posts before, I'll lay out the truth as I know it, you don't have to believe me and if you choose not too all the more power to you, I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to live in ignorance.  It is what it is. 

I apologize to the rest of you for the tangent this thread has taken, now back to the topic at hand...

Eric

[OldHP]

Once again I get sucked into the fray.  Not looking for sympathy, never have, never will and if you think I was, then your even more lost than your posts lead me to believe you are.  As I have stated in many posts before, I'll lay out the truth as I know it, you don't have to believe me and if you choose not too all the more power to you, I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to live in ignorance.  It is what it is. 

I apologize to the rest of you for the tangent this thread has taken, now back to the topic at hand...

Eric

If you are unhappy, don't blame it on some one who is doing a job and keeping folks from being unemployeed.  Eric is doing his job and keeping up what Bruce started.  I've never met the gentleman, but I know Bruce and have always concidered him a friend - so by proxie - Eric is a friend.

[twinturbo427]

I have tried to avoid this topic but its like trying to drop a bad habit. Look,the truth is that Bartlett has built a successfull business that has employed a lot of people over the years. Whats wrong with that? I still shop at Walmart and the Waltons are billionares. I am not endorsing these companies but they have done what most of us would love to do if we had the forsight and drive to do it; start a business. What profit margin is acceptable? What pay is acceptable? Look at this web site. Blind monkeys with no hands underwater could create this site faster than I could. I don't resent it, and I do endorse this site. I agree to do relatively specific work for a specific wage. I agree to it. I will not work for free. I don't expect anyone else to either. But I do have choice. With  or without a union I will have choice. Fair pay for fair work.

See the bolded copy above?  This is just a small fraction of what it takes and I wholeheartedly agree.
See the red copy above?       This sentence is almost exactly what came out of my mouth when I was asked to train uncertified technicians to do MY JOB after which I would be "released" from my position.  I had requested a pay raise and the counter offer was for me to train my replacements.

I reread the line about creating this website ten times trying to figure out how it could have possibly offended Mr. Rennhack.  It appeared as though mostlyharmless was being completely self-deprecating as to his website creation abilities.

I too have avoided this topic like a visit to the proctologist.  Being an outsider newbie, the union debate seems divisive and counter productive.

WARNING: Shameless pitch---> Maybe if I was inside , I would have a better feel for what this is all about.  

sidenote: I have spent most of my life in a "right to work" state, few unions.

[NJ]

After reading this thread I'm not too impressed with the V.P. of the union.  Actually I'm a bit embarrassed for him.  Sounds like he was downing a few brews before he hit the send button.  I don't think I want you representing me...

[Incline]

 Does the utility have to recognize the NPUA should the contractors at the site decide to organize? If not, then what is to stop the Utility from changing contract companies along with baseline workers at the end of the contract? Thereby getting rid of the Union and paying lower wages again.

 The way I see it is that any gains the NPUA makes could be short lived if they do not negotiate directly with the utility. At my site we have a pay scale for what the contractors will be paid and how they will be paid in our contract. While they are not members of the union, their employer pays a fee for them to work under our contract. From what I hear, the contractors like how they are paid...double time on Sunday, high time, ect..

 I hope it works, I was a contractor for 14 years and remember very well how I was treated by the various contract companies out there. Mostly good, but one company in particular had a bad habit of sending my check to sites I wasn't at.

[Smooth Operator]

476 posts deep......Is NPUA a reality yet?

[MeterSwangin]

476 posts deep......Is NPUA a reality yet?

Bingo.  Fun discussion topic....entirely obsolete concept.

[Camella Black]

NPUA certified by the NLRB

congrats to all that participated in the effort at crystal river, especially those that had the courage to vote their conscience. it is time for a positive change. now starts what may be the tougher part of getting big blue to negotiate openly and fairly. once again congratulations:)

Frank, I gotta ask this.... did you ever think that perhaps everyone did vote their conscience. Just because some voted against the NPUA does not mean that they didn't vote the way they actually wanted.

We are a world made up of many and not all of us believe in the same thing, I know its hard for some to accept that but that's the truth and nothing but.