Nuclear Degree now or after Navy?

[greenbean]

Hello everyone. I've spent hours reading through this site and I've learned a lot of valuable information. I really have found myself in a little bit of a pickle, and I wonder if I could get some opinions.

Since January 2009 I've been working on a second bachelor's degree in Nuclear Engineering. My plan was to serve in the Navy as a Power School Instructor and enroll in the 30 month NUPOC program to help pay for this second degree. (My first degree is in finance, however through my work I have seen a huge opportunity growing in the Nuclear field and with a combined business/engineering education I expect to make an excellent living for my family.)

I have submitted my application, gone through MEPS, and have my security clearance processing. The only problem is that I have gone through 9 months of school (with 2 years to go) only to find out that the 30 month NUPOC program won't be extended to me because I already have a degree.

This is most frustrating because I've already gone through 3 different recruiters and none of them ever mentioned that having a degree would exclude me from the 30 month program. There is a slim chance that they could cover me for 12 months of the program via a small loop-hole, but that still would force me to take a whole year out of work and just focus on school.

My question: Would it be better to get the Nuke degree now and then enter into the Navy program? I would pursue a Masters after my first tour with the Navy (possibly extending if the opportunity to work Navy Reactors came up.)  OR   Would it be better to go SWO-nuke right now, serve 5 years and then use that experience to get a job in the Nuclear field? Would employers pick me up as a qualified Nuke Operator/engineer? My end goal would be working on new fuel fabrications/re-processing systems to maximize the usage of uranium/thorium fuels.

It's not just about the money or an easy life.

I work hard, I have a personal desire and sense of duty to serve in the military(which my wife supports), and I appreciate all those of you who have gone before me in service to our country.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Sam

[merchantg]

You really have several seperate questions here. Maybe I can help a little. I served enlisted as Nuclear MM, and after several years of industrial maintenance have returned to school.

I would recomend degree now, things may change in your home life and the Navy may not seem like such a good option. Yes the Navy will give you some years on a resume. But not towards what your looking to do.

The Navy is good for operation and training experience and thats about it. Both great things but not your end goal. Sure it all says nuclear to some H.R. rep but your talking about working with nukes which can detect Bullsh!t at the 1 ppm level. They would want you for what you already have experience in (ops and training).

You can go Navy after degree if you so wish, not a recomendation I would give for someone desiring the design and testing route. But if you really want to I can not fault your desire to serve.

The other option is take prereqs and just go for Masters in Nuc Eng. Most schools will have some usually three required or strongly recomended courses if you already have B.S.

I am completing B.S. while I work in Nuclear Engineering Technology from Thomas Edison then applying to GA Tech for Masters in Nuc Eng.

[Fermi2]

If you get a Nuke Eng degree why would you go into the Navy? You won't get the experience for the family of jobs you seem to desire. With the shortage of Nuke Engineers in the commercial world I don't see why you wouldn't hit a job fair, or get an internship and go that route. To be honest going into the Navy with a Nuclear Engineering Degree is like getting a free meal at the best 5 Star Steak Place in the state, then ordering a fried bologna sandwich and a glass of warm water.

Mike

[M1Ark]

now

[greenbean]

The other part to the equation is paying for the degrees. The NUPOC program appeals to me because I'd be able to focus my effort full time to the grades/incidental research instead of balancing school and work to stay out of further debt. I know the Navy wouldn't pay as much as the private sector starting out, but that's where big money wouldn't matter as I would be looking to serve anyway.

Here's the timeline for the original plan
2 years finish BS Nuc Eng under NUPOC
4-5 years serving as surface/sub/instructor/NR (whichever makes the most sense)
2 years back to grad school for a Masters
2-6 years finish up in sufrace/sub/instructo/NR, or identify an opporunity in civilian side and go reserves Navy after any commitment incurred from going to school.

Now with the NUPOC program not offering to help pay I'm looking at
5 years sub/surface
4 years school to complete undergrad reqs for Nuc Degree to get into and Finish Masters in Nuc. Navy reserve in the mean time.

So here are two new questions.
#1 If I figure out a way to stay on track with the original plans (working/scholarship/wife working etc.) What area of Navy Nuke would I want to pursue? I recognize that my ultimate interest does not necessarily get fulfilled in any of the operations Nuke fields, but I imagine there must be some overlap somewhere. I would expect the Masters degree to really be the catalyst to go towards my ultimate goal.

#2 If I didn't have the support of the NUPOC program I'd need to find a different way to pay for the undergrad. What are my options there? Does anyone know of another program that would support a student through school/and or offer high paying internships during the summer so I can pay for the following semester?

And here's a bonus question #3 What experience does an NR or instructor get? NR-project management, instructor - teaching? Would either put me in a good position to work with a company doing processing of fuels or re-processing of waste?

Thanks again.

[Gamecock]

The other part to the equation is paying for the degrees. The NUPOC program appeals to me because I'd be able to focus my effort full time to the grades/incidental research instead of balancing school and work to stay out of further debt. I know the Navy wouldn't pay as much as the private sector starting out, but that's where big money wouldn't matter as I would be looking to serve anyway.

Here's the timeline for the original plan
2 years finish BS Nuc Eng under NUPOC
4-5 years serving as surface/sub/instructor/NR (whichever makes the most sense)
2 years back to grad school for a Masters
2-6 years finish up in sufrace/sub/instructo/NR, or identify an opporunity in civilian side and go reserves Navy after any commitment incurred from going to school.

Now with the NUPOC program not offering to help pay I'm looking at
5 years sub/surface
4 years school to complete undergrad reqs for Nuc Degree to get into and Finish Masters in Nuc. Navy reserve in the mean time.

So here are two new questions.
#1 If I figure out a way to stay on track with the original plans (working/scholarship/wife working etc.) What area of Navy Nuke would I want to pursue? I recognize that my ultimate interest does not necessarily get fulfilled in any of the operations Nuke fields, but I imagine there must be some overlap somewhere. I would expect the Masters degree to really be the catalyst to go towards my ultimate goal.

#2 If I didn't have the support of the NUPOC program I'd need to find a different way to pay for the undergrad. What are my options there? Does anyone know of another program that would support a student through school/and or offer high paying internships during the summer so I can pay for the following semester?

And here's a bonus question #3 What experience does an NR or instructor get? NR-project management, instructor - teaching? Would either put me in a good position to work with a company doing processing of fuels or re-processing of waste?

Thanks again.

I wonder if there is anyone on the forum who has experience as a nuke JO, an NNPTC Instructor, and some experience working at NR who could answer your questions   

[BuddyThePug]

I wonder if there is anyone on the forum who has experience as a nuke JO, an NNPTC Instructor, and some experience working at NR who could answer your questions   

Naaah, that's one of those done-everything been-everywhere characters that are the hero of a Tom Clancy novel....not lurking around in real-life online forums 

[tr]

If you can square it with your desire to serve in the military, pursue the degree as  your first priority.  Consider applying for internships, or co-op assignments (if your school offers a co-op program).  If you are near a nuclear utility, see if you can get part-time work there (difficult to arrange, but not impossible).  Look into nuclear related scholarships such as:

http://www.nei.org/careersandeducation/educationandresources/scholarships/industryschlrflw/nantschlrprogram

http://www.ans.org/honors/scholarships/

If you are really interested in thorium fuel cycles, essentially none of your proposed Navy experience would be meaningful. 

I'd try and figure out a way to tough it out financially for the next two years, and figure out some other way to help your country (volunteering, etc.). 

[greenbean]

So it seems an overwhelming response to go for the degree 1st and then the Navy. This then brings up a question of which officer program to pursue.

My gut reaction is to go surface for the operational/managerial experience which would be good for any long term job experience. Would there be any reason to go for Reactor Engineer instead?

Also, does anyone know or have information about the upcoming demand for Nuke surface officers? If I apply and get into the program in May 2010 will there still be spots available or will I have to wait for the new fiscal year?

Thanks again for all the feedback. this is very helpful.

[HydroDave63]

So it seems an overwhelming response to go for the degree 1st and then the Navy. This then brings up a question of which officer program to pursue.

Translation: Lots of you people who have experience with this think I should pick Option A. So, what nuances and tricks should I use to implement Option B?

Answer: With your finance degree, you should go Supply Corps. In all of your "hours reading through this site" I don't think one can find a single mention of the Navy using thorium fuels or reprocessing spent fuel. And for good reason.

50 quatloos against.

[greenbean]

Yeah, I've had plenty of encouragement to go supply corps from the earlier recruiters. But I just don't see how that would be as useful as working on/with real reactors and the operations around them.

That thorium comment has gotten a lot of attention. I wonder if its a curse word or something. :-)

Life is long, we can do different things. While I'm still relatively young I'd rather get a chance to serve as an officer, hone some new leadership skills, work in a challenging environment and build relationships with like minded people. When I'm a little longer in the tooth, helping to develop new fuels and re-processing seem like worth-while enterprises.

Am I completely off base? Wouldn't I get operations/managerial/hands on experience as a SWO? At the same time wouldn't the Reactor Engineer offer experience on the progject management/design side?

[Gamecock]

Am I completely off base?

Yes....

[greenbean]

Thanks for the help. :-)

[merchantg]

Thorium fuel reprocessing etc... are not curse words here and I doubt anyone would fault your interest in it. It is just a large conflict with the Navy experience. BZ as always put it in a very clear context. What your interested in is real engineering not operational "engineering". I chimed in because one of my largest fears is that Companies will try and push me towards operations due to my Navy experience and I wanted to advise against that route.

I really don't want to come across as bashing the Navy, but they paint a very deceiving picture to those that enter the Nuke field. They pump you up and make you think you know it all and can do it all. Nothing can be further from the truth, after entering into industrial maintenance I learned that the nuke world is a good 50 years behind in technology. And the scope of knowledge is extremely narrow. The Navy focuses on (and rightfully so) safe operations. I learned more PRACTICAL knowledge on all things mechanical, electrical, and controls in my first 6 months on the job as a maintenance man at a shingle factory than all my years in the navy.

Taking the Navy route would be taking a step backwards, going years without using most of your fresh Nuclear Engineering knowledge. And every school I have looked into with a nuclear program are decades ahead of what the Navy is using. I will say that I comend your desire to serve, but in the nuclear field especially now you will be serving a service to this country as well.

Good luck and God bless.

[greenbean]

That's a really good point about the technology. My adviser in the Nuclear Department warns me that going to the Navy will have me working with out-dated machinery/techniques. He's all for me going straight to grad school, but he's got his bias' also

Truth is that the Navy has these big cool toys and I'm still young at heart. Sitting in a lab calculating new mixtures of fuels and doing hundreds of test/data analysis is good and all, but that doesn't involve steaming along to new ports under the power of an intensely-hot Nuclear reactor. "Image of standing on bow of ship with arms out to the wind" ... *laugh* Just kidding.

But seriously. Those of you who have served can say you worked your tail off on a Nuclear Sub or worked in the belly of a massive air craft carrier as a Nuclear Operator/engineer/mechanic... There is something cool and honorable about that. You put some of your time and sweat into service to your country which now offers you these excellent careers making fat checks and doing the things you want to do.

I'm going to wrap up this degree and likely look to serve as a surface/sub officer. I hope to learn new skills, make new friends, build relationships, go new places, and serve my country in a real and physical way. If I'm over-qualified for the position, then so be it, I'll brush up on the techniques I've fallen behind on and look at a Masters degree.

Thank you all for the advice, especially about completing the degree before serving.

[thenuttyneutron]

I earned a degree in Nuclear Engineering from Texas A&M University.  I now have a RO license at a Power Reactor.  I just got off of night shift after safely maintaining reactor power as close to 100% without going over.  Watching the MW meter hover around 955 MW and the plant computer update every 6 minutes with Heat Balance Power is no picnic.

I will not come out and say I regret the career path I have made, but I will say I have forgotten a lot of stuff from my college days.  If what the above posters say about learning the "operational" engineering in the navy is true, stay away from it if you want to do advanced fuel designs.  I say this because I found some old homework problems and tests from my days as a student.  One of the earliest tests was on basic 1 group, 1 dimension diffusion theory.  I had no clue what the hell I was looking at and can't believe that I once knew what all that crap means. 

I would love to get back what I have forgotten and do real engineering work.  The problem is reality vs desires.  Theory is great and all, but it won't guarantee money.  If you want a job that pays well and is reasonably safe, go get a job in a utility after graduation and go to OPS.  If you are young and have no kids, stay in school and get into research.  Engineers are a dime a dozen everywhere, especially in the nuke industry.

[HockeyFan]

My head is swimming trying to figure this one out.  A dual finance/nuke eng degree individual who wants to join the Navy for personal reasons and for operational/management experience so that he can do commercial project management and/or design in new or reprocessed fuels.  It just doesn't work that way.

You have the credentials to do any one of the above right now.  But each does not lead into the next.  Chances are when one door opens, another will close.  For example, an engineer will almost never go into finance.  Why?  Because what senior engineer will want to start over as an entry-level financial analyst.  And as you may not realize, late career changes are harder to come by.  It will probably be much easier to get into those cool design positions fresh from your post-doctorate than from Navy experience.

My advice for anyone in this situation is pick a door, go through it, and don't look back.

Dave

[greenbean]

I think what I take from the finance experience is just that, the experience. I don't really intend to go back to financial work or accounting or any such career. The knowledge of working with different people on an emotional as well as financial basis, the creating of budgets/spreadsheets, the tracking of financial records, not to mention the knowledge of securities and insurance will all be useful over the long run.

As this post has progressed and my conversations with friends and professors also continues, I realize I'm looking for a sort of operational experience that can translate well to working with a research group/company doing fuel fabrication. I am involved with a professor right now who will give me the opportunity to actually get my hands in the lab and do some work to see if its what I really want to do, or if I'd rather focus more on the managerial side of the firm.

Thankfully I have this whole semester to get experience with the lab/advanced research and that should help me decide what to do.

I agree with you though, trying to jump around later in life is much more difficult.