Realistic quals to be a NLO

[Turbine08]

I'm starting to think at least a B.S. in nuclear or military nuclear experience is required after spending hours on this site.  I have a B.A. in Liberal Arts (I know) and 18 months of technical training in aircraft maintenance plus some electronics certifications.  Worked for the Fed's in a fast-paced safety related job, but it wasn't in the energy field.  I have no intentions of ever getting licensed, getting a B.S, or going above NLO, and at this point its rather disappointing for even that.  What would besome positions that would be entry-level that would be a "natural" to then move into a NLO?  While I'd like to stay in nuclear, with my experience would it be better to try a non-nuclear powerplant?

Thanks, great site.

[Fermi2]

You meet the quals to become an NLO right now.

Mike

[LT Dan]

You meet the quals to become an NLO right now.

Mike

Funny to me how a guy with a Liberal Arts degree and 18 months work experience in aviation is qualified to be a NLO, but a nuclear trained, Engineer qualified  submarine officer is only qualified to be a janitor.

[retired nuke]

Funny to me how a guy with a Liberal Arts degree and 18 months work experience in aviation is qualified to be a NLO, but a nuclear trained, Engineer qualified  submarine officer is only qualified to be a janitor.

Today must be the day that BZ didn't hit a sharp rock on the way out of the cave....

[JustinHEMI05]

Funny to me how a guy with a Liberal Arts degree and 18 months work experience in aviation is qualified to be a NLO, but a nuclear trained, Engineer qualified  submarine officer is only qualified to be a janitor.

I can understand why you think this way, but I assure you, its simply because you do not understand or know where Mike is coming from.

Justin

[Smooth Operator]

Let's see, going out on a patience intensive, plant traveling, sweaty clearance with a BA degree'd Aviation Mechanic turned NLO or a Sub Nuke Eng officer.....yeah, I'll take the mechanic.

[Fermi2]

I'm serious. He's far more qualified. NUke officers are trained monkeys.

Mike

[ranger2]

I'm serious. He's far more qualified. NUke officers are trained monkeys.

Mike

Mike generally tries to avoid such broad generalizations in his posts.

This former trained monkey, having only manipulated a startup source, barely qualified to be a janitor, "Mike-turnover-stapler" wannabe turned SRO is currently slogging his way through a refueling outage. I must confess I mainly tune into nukeworker to catch up on Mike's posts, as they rarely disappoint.

Several of the former enlisted nukes with whom I work say they can't believe I was once an O-ganger. They mean it as a compliment and I take it as such. I've worked with, and for, many of the officer types to which Mike refers. If I were to assume all officers were the same, I'd probably have a similar opinion of myself. I simply take it as a challenge to prove myself technically, to earn the respect of those with whom I work, and to treat them with the respect they deserve.

There is no compliance based simply on rank out here in the commercial world. An NLO or RO can do much more harm to your career aspirations or to make your work day more difficult than you can ever do in return. They do not suffer fools and you can not BS them. And if they drop even the most subtle hint that the course of action you are considering may be fraught with peril, you had better take heed.

Though I have never met Mike, I think he would be great to work for based on what I know of him from this site.

Rich

[Turbine08]

Interesting.  If even 5% of the energy used to hammer Mike was used to answer my question, I'd be thrilled.  I'm sure some of it is just in fun, but, my question was serious. How about a little help guys.

[ranger2]

I don't see anyone here "hammering" Mike. Around these parts, Mike IS the hammer.

I think your question has already been answered. You can apply for an NLO position. I know an NLO that has a degree in accounting.

[Turbine08]

Now were getting somewhere, thanks.  Being qualified and having any realistic chance of getting hired as one seems a world apart to me.  As I look through job listings, what other positions might be a "natural" to move into a NLO job.  I would think, and that's why I'm on this site, is to see if they really would hire someone with my background directly into a NLO program or if most often they want some experience in a lower-level job.  And if so, what are those jobs so I can look for them.

And as far as Mike goes, well, at first he seems a little rough reading some of his responses but for the most part, he appears to be a humorous, no BS, straight to the point kinda guy.

[Creeker]

It sort of depends upon the plant...  I work in Kansas.  Here, as they hire NSOs (same as a AO, or NLO) they look for:

1.  Do you have ties to the area...  Some companies have reputations as entry points into the industry. (Turkey Point)  It's a great place to start, but given the cost of living and surrounding area, people will get their initial quals, a little experience, then go someplace more desirable.  We don't want that... We want people who want to work and live in this area, so we don't waste training time and resources on someone who'll just go somewhere else.

2.  Some technical background...  Former Navy nuke, aircraft mechanic, HVAC...  Do you have at least some formal training in industrial/technical areas... Know a check-valve from a capacitor?  If you have a proven ability to successfully and safely work in an industrial setting, it's a plus, and will lead to number 3...

3.  Can you pass our entrance exams?   We give the POSS (Use the search function) and what's called the mini-GFES.  That will test your skills on some typical industrial components ( Controllers, detectors), some basis Heat Transfer and Fluid Flow, and even a little reactor theory.

Other plants might be looking for other things... But that's the broad spectrum of what we're looking for.  Hope that helps, and best of luck getting into the field!

Bill

[Turbine08]

Perfect response.  Give that man a cigar.  Seems to be many different paths to many different jobs in this field, making it difficult for a new person to grasp initially.  I guess from here, just apply, apply and then apply some more.  Other than maybe getting some test books to practice for the tests, being at the right place at the right time may be the most important aspect of all.  Thanks guys.

[Creeker]

I have no intentions of ever getting licensed, getting a B.S, or going above NLO, and at this point its rather disappointing for even that.

One other thing:  When you do get to the interview stage, this is not the approach you want to take.  I'm sure that a certain number of our NSOs will top out at the senior NSO level, limited either by their lack of desire to go to license class, or by their abilities.  However, the NSOs that we hire know that it is our expectation that they will get that license in future years.  ROs become SROs become Shift Managers become leadership in other areas.  Almost all plants start a new license class around every 18 months, and they need people willing to step up and move up. 

So, when you are interviewing, you are there to build an excellent foundation of everything that goes on outside of the control room as an NSO, and when you have gained the experience and expertise, you're looking forward to accepting the responsibility and challenge that goes with having a license.

[B.PRESGROVE]

Im waiting to see if I get an interview after passing the poss test, and I have to say creeker that is an excellent post.  When I am called to interview I will use that stand point and God willing get the position. 

Great point.

[Turbine08]

Point well taken.  Being new to the field, I thought being a NLO was a terminal position and that RO's and the like were the B.S. in Nuclear science types and entered the career via a different path.  Is there a book I can buy about careers in the nuke field that details all this?  I've spent a lot of time here on this great site and at the NEI site and google search's and still have as many questions as I have answers. 

[dirac]

An NLO is anything but a terminal position. You'll know more about the plant then 90% of the people on site within a few years. You naturally progress to RO then SRO if you want and more doors will be open to you then you ever thought possible, not just in ops. Its a great and rewarding job. You won't regret it.

[Turbine08]

Since I have not found a specific test for NLO, am I correct that the POSS would be used mainly.  Would that be true of a OPS position also?  It also seems each utility has free choice to use whatever tests they want.  The EEI site lists the TECH test also which may apply.  I'd like to start studying now, but want to study the right stuff.

[dirac]

Since I have not found a specific test for NLO, am I correct that the POSS would be used mainly.  Would that be true of a OPS position also?  It also seems each utility has free choice to use whatever tests they want.  The EEI site lists the TECH test also which may apply.  I'd like to start studying now, but want to study the right stuff.

To the best of my knowledge most places use the POSS test as a screening exam. If you search the forums you may find some recommendations on study materials - but honestly the POSS test is extremely easy. Essentially its basic mathematics (adding, subtracting, adding fractions, etc), reading charts (similar to income tax chart - heres your income range whats your tax?), and drawing interpertations (e.g. a picture of a bunch of gears and they ask you if gear A turns right which way does gear B turn?). The hard part of the POSS is that it is is timed. So you'll get 100 addition and subtraction problems and 5 minutes to complete as many as possible. Or 3 charts and they'll give you a hundred values and you have to answer what there corresponding chart value is in 5 minutes. So they are basically testing how many correct answers you get in x amount of minutes.

At SONGS, if you pass the POSS test you will be invited to take a "mini-gfes" exam, where you will be tested on basic math (logs, multiplying numbers, etc), pump operations, and basic thermodynamics. This is a little tougher of a test but they provide all the study material with sample questions and test you directly from the provided material. I think they even have a company sponsored review day where they go over the material. If you end up passing that test you'll be invited for an interview. I'm not sure if other utilities do this or not.

[RDTroja]

Point well taken.  Being new to the field, I thought being a NLO was a terminal position and that RO's and the like were the B.S. in Nuclear science types and entered the career via a different path.  Is there a book I can buy about careers in the nuke field that details all this?  I've spent a lot of time here on this great site and at the NEI site and google search's and still have as many questions as I have answers. 

While it is entirely appropriate to use 'BS' and 'RO in the same sentence, it is not how you think. To be an RO (or SRO) you do not need a BS degree, but you need the ability to put up with a high degree of BS. I have also noted that ROs and SROs are often quite talented themselves in the BS arena. 

Hope this helps clear that up for you.

[jiggleojoe]

At turkey point the only qual needed is a GED, no other experience.

[M1Ark]

I'm serious. He's far more qualified. NUke officers are trained monkeys.

Mike

Nuke Officers I've carried in license class have demonstrated to me that they are the least knowledgeable of all the Navy nukes.  The good ones will admit that.

I will never allow them to be anything but an STA.  Nuke Officers lack true leadership.  They are 'Yes' men.

When the CO orders the XO to put the crew on port and starboard in port the XO will relay that order to the Eng who then tells the Div O who tells the leading first who has to tell 30 pissed off, disgruntled, navy hating guys the news and tries to prevent anarchy.  Who exhibited real leadership in that chain of command?

[ranger2]

Nuke Officers...are the least knowledgeable...lack true leadership...are 'Yes' men.

Again I will submit not all officers are the same. Such broad generalizations about any group are rarely universal truths.

If this is indeed your experience (and who am I to say it isn't?) I submit your command(s) must have sucked. I have worked with a few officers who, like myself, had no problem telling an Eng, XO, or CO they were screwed up when it was warranted (albeit in a more politically correct tone). I have, on occasion, paid the price for my insolence. I have even, on rare occasions, won the argument.

A good leadership tenet is to complain up the chain-of-command vice down. There is a good scene in "Saving Private Ryan" where Tom Hanks talks about this very thing (ie not complaining in front of the troops when a command decision is FUBAR). Is there even a remote possibility these arguments on your behalf occurred out of your hearing, but were simply lost? To enforce a decision with which you disagree is a bitter pill to swallow, but can sometimes be a quality of good leadership.

When an Ops director dreams up a new (perhaps cumbersome) management expectation, passes it on to the shift ops superintendent, who puts it out to the shift managers, who in turn put it out to the first line supervisor SROs (some of whom were even former O-gangers), who then have to put it out to a group of PO'd union operators. Who exhibited the real leadership in this situation?

When the first line supervisor pushes back against the policy/expectation (because, unlike the military, a questioning attitude is highly encouraged in the commercial world) it doesn't take a great deal of leadership courage. You will either win or lose, so why not fight the good fight. Of course, one must choose his battles wisely.

Regards,

Rich
(former dumb, weak "yes-man", turned SRO)

[Turbine08]

B. Presgrove- You mentioned passing the POSS, congratulations.  How difficult did you find the test and what did you use to study?

[B.PRESGROVE]

The test was pretty easy ( I mean I used the practice tests they provided at the website so I wasnt walking in blind, and this is the second time Ive taken the test and passed so I was kinda prepared for what to expect) and straight forward.  If you go to the website of what ever utility your applying for they should give you a set of practice tests, and those are what the test consists of just in a shorter format.  So study those.  Dont get to worked up on study guides and asvab practice tests that is overkill.  There are the 5 parts to the test so just study those; conversions, diagram assembly, reading comp., graphs, mechanics, and a section of conversions and algebra together (they give another shot at conversions).  Dont linger more than a second or two on each problem, and if you dont know go to the next one, it wont count against you.

Dont be nervous.  It is not that hard of a test, the only nerve tweekin part is the time limits, but just do what I said about not lingering and you will do fine.  I didnt finish any of the sections, but I did get more then half of each done and I passed (and Im no brain child either), so there you go.

One more thing I was Aircraft Maint on the beloved C-141 in the Air Force for 4 years so you have a good start.