Question answered.

[BaeKay]

 l

[Fast Neutron]

STA-21 is only for enlisted sailors, and you cannot have a bachelor's degree in order to be eligible.  It specifically says in the program document that if you are on the verge of getting a bachelor's degree not to apply for graduation if you want to stay eligible for that officer accession program.

Prior enlisted of any profession are called mustangs, in reference to wild horses that become domesticated.  If you have four or more years of prior enlisted service with good conduct, you get O-1E pay, similair to Lt. Commander pay for an Ensign. You will have to redo prototype and power school if you become an officer.  There is no A school for officer.

No job will make you more attractive to the STA-21 selection board.  If you think about it, if there were an especially credible rate, they wouldn't want to just give up that trained body.

You need calc II and physics II to do NUPOC at all, it is prerequisite to getting into the program.  Since you have a degree, you can't do NUPOC as a college program, but you can still apply to interview for the nuke officer position.

Don't enlist to become an officer.  The Navy doesn't need that double investment just to get one officer.  Further, you probably walk like an officer, talk like an officer, and think like an officer.  You will have a challenge dealing with youngsters who don't have your dialect in your own language and have different priorities in life.  You could be competitive for a nuke officer job.  You have to be confident.  The navy needs positively charged particles, not negatively charged ones.  That's why they have age limits, because as you age you generally become less optimistic (or whatever).  Young folks are the perfect people to sacrifice for their country.  They have the tolerance and will to put up with challenging work conditions.  That's what you've got.  Try to do your best in the interviews if you attempt to become an officer, after completing calc II and physics II of course.  You can do these in one quarter or one semester anyway.

Good Luck

[BaeKay]

STA-21 is only for enlisted sailors, and you cannot have a bachelor's degree in order to be eligible.  It specifically says in the program document that if you are on the verge of getting a bachelor's degree not to apply for graduation if you want to stay eligible for that officer accession program.

Prior enlisted of any profession are called mustangs, in reference to wild horses that become domesticated.  If you have four or more years of prior enlisted service with good conduct, you get O-1E pay, similair to Lt. Commander pay for an Ensign. You will have to redo prototype and power school if you become an officer.  There is no A school for officer.

No job will make you more attractive to the STA-21 selection board.  If you think about it, if there were an especially credible rate, they wouldn't want to just give up that trained body.

You need calc II and physics II to do NUPOC at all, it is prerequisite to getting into the program.  Since you have a degree, you can't do NUPOC as a college program, but you can still apply to interview for the nuke officer position.

Don't enlist to become an officer.  The Navy doesn't need that double investment just to get one officer.  Further, you probably walk like an officer, talk like an officer, and think like an officer.  You will have a challenge dealing with youngsters who don't have your dialect in your own language and have different priorities in life.  You could be competitive for a nuke officer job.  You have to be confident.  The navy needs positively charged particles, not negatively charged ones.  That's why they have age limits, because as you age you generally become less optimistic (or whatever).  Young folks are the perfect people to sacrifice for their country.  They have the tolerance and will to put up with challenging work conditions.  That's what you've got.  Try to do your best in the interviews if you attempt to become an officer, after completing calc II and physics II of course.  You can do these in one quarter or one semester anyway.

Good Luck

Thank you for your thoughts, Fast Neutron. I think you present a balanced assessment.

However, I still need to clarify two points in your statement, which unfortunately came as a shock as I am understanding the process better:

(1) If STA-21 is unavailable as an accession route, what are my remaining options for officership (assuming I enlist): OCS? or is this just a non-college NUPOC without the fancy bonuses?

(2) Assuming I am already enlisted and undergoing nuclear training--will I need the extra semester of Calc II & Phys II to even make pick-up for OCS an option?

[DLGN25]

The only thing that is guaranteed in the Navy, is the contract you sign when going in or re-enlisting, provided you do the work.  Everything else is at the needs of the service, and the whims of command. 
If you choose the enlisted to officer track, you are looking at four years or so for the opportunity.  You will have to hit every rating advancement opportunity, have consistent and excellent reviews, a command structure that will support your goals, and have the education needed for advancement.  Missing any of these elements, and you will be out in six at maybe E-5 or E-6 if you are lucky. 

Keep in mind, to the nuclear Navy, a qualified enlisted nuke is more valuable then an unqualified 90 day wonder or a Mustang. 

So if the ward room is where you want to be, and engineering is what you want to do, talk to the officer recruiter, take the courses needed, and come in through the front door.  To do it any other way is a crap shoot at best.

[BaeKay]

The only thing that is guaranteed in the Navy, is the contract you sign when going in or re-enlisting, provided you do the work.  Everything else is at the needs of the service, and the whims of command. 
If you choose the enlisted to officer track, you are looking at four years or so for the opportunity.  You will have to hit every rating advancement opportunity, have consistent and excellent reviews, a command structure that will support your goals, and have the education needed for advancement.  Missing any of these elements, and you will be out in six at maybe E-5 or E-6 if you are lucky. 

Keep in mind, to the nuclear Navy, a qualified enlisted nuke is more valuable then an unqualified 90 day wonder or a Mustang. 

So if the ward room is where you want to be, and engineering is what you want to do, talk to the officer recruiter, take the courses needed, and come in through the front door.  To do it any other way is a crap shoot at best.

Point well stated.

[Fast Neutron]

(1) If STA-21 is unavailable as an accession route, what are my remaining options for officership (assuming I enlist): OCS? or is this just a non-college NUPOC without the fancy bonuses?

Pretty much OCS as far as I can see.  You could not be more competitive for the nuke officer position by completing any portion of the nuke pipeline, generally.  Now, they are always hurting for nukes, so there is the possibility that applying for OCS and interviewing for nuke can happen (as far as I know).  Generally, the interview comes first, then selection, then OCS.  So, from inside the nuke pipeline without going through another officer accession program I am unsure of how to get selected for nuke before going to OCS, or if it is possible after OCS. 

Theoretically, you could be frocked in an emergency, this is when your paygrade stays the same but you wear a higher paygrade or rank and are respected as such.  This will probably never happen.

There are Limited Duty Officers, they are enlisted (generally E-6 or higher) who become officers.  They cannot command the ship and are limited to certain duties.  They apply for this position, generally for nukes, this is a radiation control officer.

You could also theoretically apply for a warrant, after becoming chief (E-7 or higher).  Instead of being "appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate" and receiving a commission (yes, this is the formal process; you never hear about it though, but it happens every year) you are given a "warrant" to serve "by the president."  Obviously, the president again has nothing practically to do with this, but it explains the legal reasoning behind the difference between chief-warrant officers and commissioned officers.  You become something above enlisted and below and officer.  You never really see these people in the navy because there are other routes available and pursued.  There are not many.

(2) Assuming I am already enlisted and undergoing nuclear training--will I need the extra semester of Calc II & Phys II to even make pick-up for OCS an option?

Most definitely.  This is the only way for the navy to evaluate the skills of people of disparate engineering and science (and non-science, non-technical) origin.  Its my understanding that at one point in the past some people were allowed to move from enlisted training to officer training if their grades were exceptional enough without ever going to college.  Perhaps I am wrong, but a reliable mathematics professor (O-4 air force, retired) had a brother who told her about it, he was in the nuke pipeline then back in the 80's.  They aren't hurting like they were, no cold war now.  Further, most of the people who back then would not have gone to college now do so, because its more affordable.  This may provide a sociological explanation of why it would be unreasonable to think this possible today, generally.

Anyway, you could earn these quickly.  You'll need good grades and enough understanding to use it.  However, if you were to enlist right now, the time spent in between going to boot camp and now could be equal to the time it takes to finish those courses, especially if you were to do a B-term on quarters (for winter) or an A-term on either quarters or semester in this summer.  It would be challenging to complete these courses during the nuke enlisted pipeline, you need to do your best there. 


You know, the energy that made you choose your non-technical major should be the source of energy that makes you want to be a nuke officer.  There is no shame in choosing social sciences or humanities.  Don't deny that it reflects who you are or who you were.  That same energy can allow to change you direction, after all, its the source that led you to choose you path in the first place!  It doesn't make sense to resent that decision, now does it?

I hope this helps you on your quest!

[Gamecock]

There are Limited Duty Officers, they are enlisted (generally E-6 or higher) who become officers.  They cannot command the ship and are limited to certain duties.  They apply for this position, generally for nukes, this is a radiation control officer.

Generally, a good post, but there is some bad information in it.  First, Limited Duty Officers taken from the enlisted nuclear community really only have three options (rad control officer is not one of the options for the first tour).
1.  They can go to a CVN and qualify as PPWO while serving as a technical assistant in either Reactor Department or Engineering.
2.  They can become a Naval Reactors Field Representative at one of our nuclear shipyards.
3.  In the case of a submarine going into a major work availability, an LDO might be assigned as the assistant to the engineer for the overhaul.  He then would go to a CVN for subsequent duty.

Its my understanding that at one point in the past some people were allowed to move from enlisted training to officer training if their grades were exceptional enough without ever going to college.
Perhaps I am wrong, but a reliable mathematics professor (O-4 air force, retired) had a brother who told her about it, he was in the nuke pipeline then back in the 80's.

You are wrong....every officer except CWO/LDO is a college graduate.

To the original poster....go back to school and take your Calculus and Calculus-based physics courses (we require two semesters of each) and contact an officer recruiter.  We do take non-technical majors, but you'll need good grades in your math and physics classes to get in the door.

[Fast Neutron]

Sorry about that, an MM1 recruiter told me about the LDO's.  Perhaps I didn't get the full scoop.  It sounds like they have more opportunity than I understood.  I guess the story about the enlisted being taken into officer training was apocryphal. 

[Neutron_Dodger]

(1) If STA-21 is unavailable as an accession route, what are my remaining options for officership (assuming I enlist): OCS? or is this just a non-college NUPOC without the fancy bonuses?

(2) Assuming I am already enlisted and undergoing nuclear training--will I need the extra semester of Calc II & Phys II to even make pick-up for OCS an option?

I did STA-21 after being enlisted.  STA-21 is for extraordinary (if I do say so myself) Sailors that need their undergraduate degree to commission.  It is true that if you already have your degree, enlisting is unnecessary and wasteful of Navy resources if you intend to go OCS.

Normally I would direct you to the navy issuance that covers the OCS program for everything you would ever want to know...unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it.  I would recommend you contact your local/regional nuclear officer recruiter (you can get their number from the closest navy recruiting office) and direct your questions there.  If I can get more info I'll post back. 

To tack onto what Gamecock said... non-technical majors have a record of success in the nuke pipeline.  I think they are not as confident of technical matters and therefore put more effort into the courses/training. 

[spekkio]

***I preface this by saying that I am not interested in NUPOC or any more general career advice, only answers that directly respond to the questions posed below. Thank you in advance!

NUPOC = the only way to commission through OCS for sub officers and surface nuke officers. You can apply to NUPOC at any time after you have taken 1 year of calculus based physics and 1 year of calculus. So while you would have gotten a lot more pay by joining in college, you can also apply with a degree so long as you meet the requirements. You will still get the sign up bonus, and you will still collect E6 pay + bah from the day you sign the paperwork until the day you commission (normally OC's get E-5 pay at OCS and only married folks get BAH at OCS).

If you enlist and want to go "through OCS" after your initial service commitment... you will have to apply to NUPOC as a civilian. Which is essentially where you are right now, except 6 years younger. Oh, and you'll still be ineligible without calc II and calc based physics II, even after going through the enlisted nuke pipeline. That means you'd have to go back to school for a semester to qualify, which is probably what all the people who would give you "general career advice" would tell you to do right now. But since you have all this figured out, you should probably go enlist and then be upset that you are back at square 1 six years later as far as eligibility and competitiveness for commissioning goes. You could even blame it on your recruiter lying to you. I'm sure you've also researched age limits and have factored that into your master plan as well, yes? Keep in mind that you want to subtract at least a year from that age limit since it can take that long for the commissioning application to go through from start to swearing in.

I don't know if applying for nuke officer through OCS while enlisted falls under NUPOC specifically or not. But all prospective nuke officers must interview with the ADM (a tradition continued from Rickover), and the eligibility requirements are the same, so the process is almost the same as NUPOC anyway. But you won't be able to apply to OCS while enlisted until your command knows you well enough to write letters of recommendation for you. That usually means being qualified...which won't come until 3-4 years into your commitment.

So while you may not have wanted to hear about NUPOC and think you've done all the research about it, that is the only avenue available to you to commission as a nuke aside from LDO or CWO, which have very different career paths.

[NukeLDO]

Generally, a good post, but there is some bad information in it.  First, Limited Duty Officers taken from the enlisted nuclear community really only have three options (rad control officer is not one of the options for the first tour).
1.  They can go to a CVN and qualify as PPWO while serving as a technical assistant in either Reactor Department or Engineering.
2.  They can become a Naval Reactors Field Representative at one of our nuclear shipyards.
3.  In the case of a submarine going into a major work availability, an LDO might be assigned as the assistant to the engineer for the overhaul.  He then would go to a CVN for subsequent duty.

Add option #4, which is the NSRO (NAVSEA Shipyard Representative's Office).  Nuke LDOs who retain their nuke bonus and work for NAVSEA 04/05.  They are the regulatory oversight organization that watch over the non-nuclear test organizations at the nuclear shipyards and serve on the non-nuclear Joint Test Group and Ship's Safety Council.  Used to have to screen for NR to get the job, but I know a couple LDOs who did not screen currently working for the organization.  It hasn't been around that long, came into existence in 2000.  ADM Bowman was instrumental in standing up the organization to provide the same oversight for the non-nukes that NR provides for the ships, nuclear engineering codes, and nuclear test organizations.

[NukeLDO]

Most of us who went from blue to khaki don't wonder about that at all! 

[JustinHEMI05]

Well said spekkio.