NNPTC prototype school question

[Bawb]

Lots of rumors going round that there will be an 18 month wait between power school and prototype next year. There's talk of deploying to the fleet for 6 months working in your rating (non-nuke) during that time. Ever hear of anyone doing their prototype training aboard a deployed vessel? Sorry if this is a ridiculous question.

[Maziwrath]

I'll say it wouldn't surprise me.......


edited for content by GC

[Gamecock]

There's talk of deploying to the fleet for 6 months working in your rating (non-nuke) during that time. Ever hear of anyone doing their prototype training aboard a deployed vessel?

No.

[sovbob]

Too bad. That would be the ultimate OJT. His 6 year enlistment contract has a clause the he has to serve 4 years with the fleet so he's in for at least 7 1/2.

That doesn't seem quite right.  If he reaches his EAOS (End of Active Obligated Service) date without re-enlisting, then they can't keep him in the navy (unless congress institutes a stop-loss).  They can, however, make him ineligible to transfer to a shore command until he has met the requirements for time at sea (typically 4-5 years).

[Samabby]

" Lots of rumors going round  "

Welcome to the Military! 

[xobxdoc]

I did 5 months on a conventional ship after "A" school waiting for my nuke school class. This was in '81. They lost a lot of nukes that way. These ships were manned by bitter ex-nukes.

[rlbinc]

Best job I had in the Navy was the 3 months (6 months, 9 months, then finally extended to 12 months) assignment as a Basic Electronics and Electricity School Lab Assistant at NTC Orlando.
Oh the agony - 20 section duty - six hour work days - it was brutal.
When I finally started Nuclear Power School, I had definitely been softened up.
Nuke School was a big adjustment after my "Summer to Summer Vacation".

The Navy will change plans on you a million times. Be ready to enjoy the confusion.
Seriously, it was a lot of fun. I served 1977-85.
 

[DLGN25]

Not having served on submarines, I cannot say whether prototype training has an advantage for those going to the boats, but on the  carriers and the now gone cruisers, engineering was manned at such a level that they could train green nukes.  So perhaps it is time to drop "prototype" training for those going to the surface fleet.  Give it some thought, how much is really gained by spending six months in training a nuke on a submarine plant, then drop them into a Nimitz environment?  Not much in my opinion.  Based on my experience, all prototype did for me was to prepare me to be a watch stander on the prototype, but after completing my training, I did not stand operational watches, so hands on operational experience was lacking.   

Just a thought.

[Llama]

So MARSSIM would you suggest that they decommission the NY prototype and have us er...someone go there for the decommissioning? 

[spekkio]

Not having served on submarines, I cannot say whether prototype training has an advantage for those going to the boats, but on the  carriers and the now gone cruisers, engineering was manned at such a level that they could train green nukes.  So perhaps it is time to drop "prototype" training for those going to the surface fleet.  Give it some thought, how much is really gained by spending six months in training a nuke on a submarine plant, then drop them into a Nimitz environment?  Not much in my opinion.  Based on my experience, all prototype did for me was to prepare me to be a watch stander on the prototype, but after completing my training, I did not stand operational watches, so hands on operational experience was lacking.  

Just a thought.

There is very little training value to be gained for those going to submarines as well. It's not like current submarines have a WWII era destroyer engineroom attached to a piece of a submarine hull, complete with an S7G core that originally didn't use control rods. There are only two logical conclusions I can draw why prototype still exists:

1) The systems that are similar between prototype and submarines allow junior Sailors to qualify more quickly, since there wouldn't be enough manpower on board to completely train a guy who hasn't seen the inside of an engine room.

2) It works, and has been working for over 50 years, so why fix what isn't broken? No one wants to be 'that guy' who changed the training pipeline and then had the Navy's first reactor accident.

I lean much more heavily to 2 rather than 1.

[crusemm]

There is very little training value to be gained for those going to submarines as well. It's not like current submarines have a WWII era destroyer engineroom attached to a piece of a submarine hull, complete with an S7G core that originally didn't use control rods. There are only two logical conclusions I can draw why prototype still exists:

1) The systems that are similar between prototype and submarines allow junior Sailors to qualify more quickly, since there wouldn't be enough manpower on board to completely train a guy who hasn't seen the inside of an engine room.

2) It works, and has been working for over 50 years, so why fix what isn't broken? No one wants to be 'that guy' who changed the training pipeline and then had the Navy's first reactor accident.

I lean much more heavily to 2 rather than 1.

The idea, 20 or so years ago was that
1.  NNPS was an academic/mental filter, i.e. to filter out those who do not have the ability to absorb and regurgitate the theoretical and knowledge based parts of being a nuke. 
2.  NPTU was a hands on/physical aptitude filter, i.e. to filter out those who just had no aptitude for operating and controlling the actual ships systems.

So, my theory, about 10-15 years ago the Navy started having a real hard time filling nuclear billets because the civilian sector had a lot of jobs, people could afford to go to college, and things in this country economically were just peachy.  So, the Navy removed the filter elements and NNPS and NPTU became pumps.  Fast forward to 2010.  Suddenly, lots of people want in the Navy (steady, stable employment, no layoffs, good benefits).  Lots of High Quality Applicants are knocking on the door.  I think that very soon the filter elements will be re-installed, and the NPTU's will go back to doing what they are supposed to do.

Oh yeah, and also your #2, ain't no one wants to be That Guy

Have A Day 

-Matt

[spekkio]

So, my theory, about 10-15 years ago the Navy started having a real hard time filling nuclear billets because the civilian sector had a lot of jobs, people could afford to go to college, and things in this country economically were just peachy.  So, the Navy removed the filter elements and NNPS and NPTU became pumps.  Fast forward to 2010.  Suddenly, lots of people want in the Navy (steady, stable employment, no layoffs, good benefits).  Lots of High Quality Applicants are knocking on the door.  I think that very soon the filter elements will be re-installed, and the NPTU's will go back to doing what they are supposed to do.

. The Navy has a real hard time filling nuclear billets because it's difficult to find someone with high academic grades in high school or a college technical degree and convince them to work in a 350' tube that spends up to 8 months under water. The high school guys would be able to land some kind of college scholarship and the college grads a job that pays in the 50k range to start. It's even tougher when they find out that while they're getting no sunlight, they'll also be getting no sleep as they work like dogs for unpaid overtime. So you're left with two pools of people: pool A are the people who are so dedicated to serving in the nuclear Navy that they don't care about all that, which is a very small pool. Pool B are people who aren't successful in the outside world or just need some money to go to college...this is the bigger pool of people.

The Navy has people knocking on the door right now because the economy is so bad that more highly qualified people would rather take a job rather than no job. In 4-5 years, the economy will probably better. If not, they can reenlist. But at some point, the economy will improve and the type of people the nuclear Navy wants are going to find employment elsewhere, and we'll be back to square 1.

On top of that, the Navy likes to solve retention problems by hiring more people and hoping the same percentage stay paired with higher bonuses. In lieu of the nuclear Navy's exceptionally low retention rate, it's not likely we'll be seeing a filter effect anytime soon, but the bonuses might go down.

[NukeLDO]

The drawing board and procurement work for the replacement MTSs has commenced.  Two decom 688s are being converted and will replace the current S5W platforms in Charleston around 2016.  The conversion will include upgrading the I&C systems to the Type II microprocessor being used both in the submarine and surface fleet.  In my opinion, we should have taken one of those decom cruisers a few years back and converted that to a training platform back when the opportunity presented itself.

[ELT1]

I taught at M*#F prototype recently, and although it does seem like a pump nowadays, there are a few other things they learn there like how to qualify, the jargon/lingo/communications and so on that they would never learn in NNPS.

I say take the coloring books away and do it like we used to do it and there will be fewer idiots out there.

Served 97-09

[adrianI]

I left prototype as an instructor in 2008. I agree it is hard to kick people out, but I'm not sure the coloring books or anything like that is the problem. It seems that any place I've ever been through qualifications has people that say it was harder/better in my day, and I'm not sure I agree with that. One thing that would really help is to use the IDE (simulator) like an actual simulator. Forget countless startups and shutdowns. Run countless drills and the students would learn so much more.