Landing an interview...

[Fahrenschnell]

Hello,

I have applied to quite a few AO/NLO positions over the past year, and I am not getting any feedback, calls, or interviews.  I know there are a lot of people applying right now, but I haven't been picky about location and have applied all over.  I interview well and have a strong employment background including being a Navy Nuke.  I don't know if it is my resume or if I am failing to follow through as I should on these positions.

Please advise me on how I should move forward, as I can see that I am obviously missing some crucial components.  Thank you for your help and advice.

[JustinHEMI05]

Probably a resume issue.

What is your background?

[Fahrenschnell]

I was a Navy Nuke MM for 6 years on a fast attack sub, and have been managing a 40 person national service group for the last 9 years.  During those years I have also been heavily involved in new machine development and beta testing on fluid dispensing equipment. 

 

[HydroDave63]

Most utilities don't like paying for moves, hence hire within a close radius. What plant(s) are you near?

[Fahrenschnell]

I am in MI, but able to relocate.  Near Fermi.

[JustinHEMI05]

Hmmm, I think it is a combination of things, but primarily your resume. I am not trying to sound like a douche, but frankly, 6 and out Navy nukes are a dime a dozen. Although you have a leg up on someone with no industry experience, you are competing with Navy nukes that are getting out at 8-10 years with more advanced quals and 4 year technical degrees.

However, perhaps your resume isn't saying the right things, as you should at least be getting calls, I think.

If you would like, you can send me your resume at jecrocker@gmail.com and I will have a look.

It will take a little while as I have a line ahead of you.

Justin

[Cycoticpenguin]

edit: typed on my phone.


I am willing to bet employers would prefer local talent, but I dont believe that couple grand to hire a nuke with good experience over a college kid would be a breaking factor... I was offered interviews at 5 different plants out of state, some fairly far away. While, no, not gaurenteeing myself a job at said plants, but Im sure I had a decent shot. Shoot, half of my class, and half the class before me was out of state.

That said, I think you should definitely let justin have a look at your resume. If its multiple pages, you need to condense that a LOT. Theres no need to have several pages scripted together for your amount of experience. Also, if you have an objectives section, delete it. Will give you more room to make yourself look better, while maintaining a neat, orderly resume. Think about it, EVERYONE is going for that position... they know your objective... there's ZERO reason to put that in there. It just eats up space, and gives room for error. Also, make darn sure you have everything spelled properly. My spellcheck function missed "qaulfied" on my resume until I gave it to my grandmother who pointed it out randomly. (I had MANY eyes on my resume, and ironically she was the one that found it).
 

[Fahrenschnell]

Thank you Justin for the offer.  I have sent it over and hopefully you can help me get it sorted.

Thanks again.

Seth

[JustinHEMI05]

Thank you Justin for the offer.  I have sent it over and hopefully you can help me get it sorted.

Thanks again.

Seth

Got it. I will get to it ASAP. This week sucks because we just started an outage and my GFES exam is weds.

Ignore CM's advice above, except for the spelling part.

[Fermi2]

Agreed ignore CMs advice except for grammar, spelling, and capitalization. Do what Justin says, he knows what he's talking about.

[HydroDave63]

Agreed ignore CMs advice except for grammar, spelling, and capitalization. Do what Justin says, he knows what he's talking about.

And that, my friends, is all the endorsement one needs in life!

[Cycoticpenguin]

Agreed ignore CMs advice except for grammar, spelling, and capitalization. Do what Justin says, he knows what he's talking about.

Please explain to me why a third of our candidates are from other corners of the country? This is an honest question. Why would a fortune 500 company care about the couple grand to move more highly qualified operators then "local talent". Would you honestly hire a firestone plant worker over a navy nuke because you had to move that person???

 Also, since you are management, please explain to me what good the "Objective" section is on a resume?  You know good and well resume readers spend 30 seconds glancing over those things. It would seem to me to be more prudent to have more of your qualifications and glorifications then a subjective heading that everyone already knows about anyway. How am I wrong here?

[JustinHEMI05]

Please explain to me why a third of our candidates are from other corners of the country? This is an honest question. Why would a fortune 500 company care about the couple grand to move more highly qualified operators then "local talent". Would you honestly hire a firestone plant worker over a navy nuke because you had to move that person???

 Also, since you are management, please explain to me what good the "Objective" section is on a resume?  You know good and well resume readers spend 30 seconds glancing over those things. It would seem to me to be more prudent to have more of your qualifications and glorifications then a subjective heading that everyone already knows about anyway. How am I wrong here?

Because no one gives sh*t that you got a nam for scraping bilges.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Because no one gives sh*t that you got a nam for scraping bilges.

How about an "award for outstanding superior performance". Its all in the vernacular justin...

do you really "give a sh*t" about "My goal is to become a Nuclear Auxilliary Operator.... blah blah blah"

 

[JustinHEMI05]

Yes.

[Pman52]

do you really "give a sh*t" about "My goal is to become a Nuclear Auxilliary Operator.... blah blah blah"

 

A good resume that is prepared by a driven individual preparing to become a professional is going to have an objective section that states alot more than just this...  If you don't believe that you need to read a few more resumes.

[Cycoticpenguin]

A good resume that is prepared by a driven individual preparing to become a professional is going to have an objective section that states alot more than just this...  If you don't believe that you need to read a few more resumes.

I've spent countless hours reviewing resumes of various types, not just for an operator. Most of what I saw seemed useless for an entry level position resume. For future resume writers, and myself, can you explain to me why this statement matters?

"Objective:
My goal is to pursue an exciting and challenging position of Boiler Operator where I can utilize my huge knowledge and experience to maintain efficient as well as safe operation of boilers. "

Im asking to learn, not to spite or argue with hiring managers who have been in the business for longer then I've been alive, not my goal or intention.

[Fermi2]

no caps, bad shoulder day. my intent was not to downgrade cm as he has successfully transitioned to being able to get a job in the commercial industry at pretty much the only level he could start at. he's also been very open about what he wished he would have done in the past and how he plans to negotiate the future. so my apologies if i put him on the pedestal of ridicule. he and i have exchanged pm here at times, he seems ok and wants to move up.

saying that, my opinion as someone who has screened resumes is the individual does perform some research as to the various job titles and positions. if they simply put their goal is to obtain a job as an nlo i rarely take a second glance at the resume. now if they put objective is to enter the company as an nlo in order to eventually enter the reactor operator and supervision positions i take a second long look at the resume.

you put you got a nam on a resume i deduct a point i could care less if someone made the all star team in t ball. same as listing any medals you earned. we don't give medals in the commercial world. i do pay attention to class ranking to an extent. i also pay attention to spelling, punctuation, grammar, caps and the like. i deduct a point for mistakes in each. once you get to 95 i chunk the resume because you obviously didn't care about the job. i believe a 5% margin starting from 100 is sufficient as the plant gives zero percent margin.

tell me how your efforts improved something or someone and i might give a point. make it measurable. i could care less if you were the lpo or the div officer of king shit mountain. they're a dime a dozen. a guy who worked as a boss at burger king and can relate to me how he improved productivity and was able to train his staff has far more worth to me than someone who says as the lpo of such and such division i implemented the pm program with a 100% pm rate. who cares? the program is laid out by the navy and if you just follow the program you should achieve 100% it's the minimum standard.

i would take justins advice over cm on this simply because the path he took into the industry is far tougher and more importantly he's done it twice. that tells me something about him especially since he's cross pollinating and i know how tough that is. given the industry is slowly gearing to interviewing nlo on an sro level his advice carries more worth. i simply want guys coming into my plant that can learn to think like sro's and can display it during an interview. seeing a well written resume with goals and accomplishments that can sell me on that goes a long way

btw, show me a resume that is over 1 page and it's an immediate failure.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Ah, I get your point Mike. And thank you!

edit : at what point is 2 pages allowed for you?  I had it grilled into me to get it down to one page (my first resume was three pages long haha), and did all kinds of things to get that truncated, that included smiting my objectives section. I DID make it painfully clear during my interview I wasnt going to waste time getting my license, though.

[JustinHEMI05]

That is all I tried to tell you in PM. 

Now that we are all on the same page, my inbox is full. Good thing I have a few days off after the GFES tomorrow.

[Fermi2]

Ah, I get your point Mike. And thank you!

edit : at what point is 2 pages allowed for you?  I had it grilled into me to get it down to one page (my first resume was three pages long haha), and did all kinds of things to get that truncated, that included smiting my objectives section. I DID make it painfully clear during my interview I wasnt going to waste time getting my license, though.

anytime. in my mind a cover letter of one paragraph doesn't count as a page provided it's not more than 10 or so sentences long.

so far as resume. one page is it. single space items within a section, double space between sections. i don't care where you went to high school or any teenage jobs UNLESS you can put something in the resume that is relative to showing me what sort of worker you are. if you were a gardener at 17 and you worked with your boss or on your own to lower plant mortality rate at the said facility by figuring out a better watering schedule hell yes i want to know that. it tells me regardless of the position you think and more importantly you treat all your way stations in life as careers and not just stopping points. it's far more relevant than the pm example you gave above.

[HydroDave63]

IMHO...

1. Please explain to me why a third of our candidates are from other corners of the country? This is an honest question. 2. Why would a fortune 500 company care about the couple grand to move more highly qualified operators then "local talent". Would you honestly hire a firestone plant worker over a navy nuke because you had to move that person???

 3. Also, since you are management, please explain to me what good the "Objective" section is on a resume?  You know good and well resume readers spend 30 seconds glancing over those things. 4. It would seem to me to be more prudent to have more of your qualifications and glorifications then a subjective heading that everyone already knows about anyway. How am I wrong here?

1. It's much like the 6-factor formula; high unemployment making more total resumes available coupled with reduced SRB multiples, high operating tempo for nukes, recent controversial policies and better awareness of civvie job availability producing a screaming down-arrow on the Naval non-leakage probability.

Why 1/3 are out of staters? Most likely the Ops folks reviewing resumes saw a STRONG possibility of that applicant going through the license pipeline quickly. Some utilities are so short of RO/SRO on-shift that they risk NRC letters. Gone are the days when utilities liked having swarms of career secondary-side operators, thus keeping license pay low (who wants the hassles?) and kept corporate beancounters happy (sure, the licenses are getting overtime but I'm saving on FTE, and the SROs are salary anyways). Some utilities are scared enough to go back to instant RO classes.

2. $2000 might move a 6-and-out that only owns a couple seabags of clothes, a scratched-up Lexus and an awesome CD collection, but a professional move of a typical family cross-country runs about $15K.

2a. After seeing some of the knowledge-weak postings on NW in the past couple years from fresh off Das Boot ex-nukes and sitting some interviews, I have to check the box labeled "No longer a valid predictor of success".

3. The Objective is as much about what you don't state as what you do. Pman52 had it right, because a well-written objective already answers one of the favorite HR-type questions in an interview "What do you see yourself doing and learning in 5 years?" A one or two sentence objective conveys the answer "Not one damn thing more than it takes to get on shift." Think of it as a mini-cover letter.

4. Justin might have been a bit harsh, but correct. Unless your stellar achievements made it onto your DD-214 or a Letter of Condemnation from O-6 or above, the jaded Ops guys reading your resume will just chuckle and set it down in the other pile. If the puffery is in the resume, be sure your references can back it up.

[HydroDave63]

after the GFES tomorrow.

GFES ??!?!?

Nub !!!   

[JustinHEMI05]

Indeed.


As to your number 4, that is something vitally important that needs emphasized. EVERYTHING on the resume better be verifiable, particularly if you are going for an instant SRO class.

In the not too distant past, there was an issue of someone lying on their resume and the NRC finding out.

I know my utility now requires copies of DD214s/evals, etc.

Point is, don't over embellish. Don't round 1.5 years of EWS to 2 years.

[Cycoticpenguin]

GFES ??!?!?

Nub !!!   

man... I dont even know what GFES stands for... what does that make me... haha


Thank you for your clarification on your other post. My resume was crammed down to just listing qualifications and jobs held in the navy.  I didnt include any awards or anything, because nothing seemed substantial enough to warrant placement.

Drayer, i hope to god you are paying attention to this thread!

[ski2313]

I included an "objective" on my resume(s).

..had name, contact info, etc on top.. then:

Objective: To secure an Auxiliary Operator position with {utility name} and obtain SRO license.

Verbatim.. including "bold".

The rest of the resume was very easy on the eyes.. bullet points, spaced out generously.. and to the point, while delivering a specific message.. one page max. The gist of my resume was that I "have a brain" (good grades in college level math and science courses), I am comfortable and experienced with shift work, and most importantly this is not only the position I want, but also the career path I want.. This message was again supplemented with an easy to read, to the point,  logical cover letter.. And if that wasn't enough, I know for a fact that that same message carried through at the interview. I'm certainly no expert on job applications, but I'm pointing out what worked for me, as well as my underlying logic.. Hope that helps.

-ski

[Fermi2]

gfes is the general fundamentals exam given by the nrc to prospective licensed operators. it consists of components, thermo, and reactor theory. it's given 4 times a year at each utility that has a licensed class in progress. the exam itself is good for 3 years iirc. it might be two years. if you haven't licensed by that point you take a utility administered exam. prior to receiving a license you have to pass this test in fact iirc to get examined by the nrc you have to pass it. if you are licensed at utility a and then go to utility b you have to take a utility administered gfes unless you are changing types of reactors. since my original license was bwr i had to take an nrc administered pwr test when i changed utilities. reactor theory is different for both types and thermo and components are different to some extent mostly because the thermal limits for fuel are different for both types with the bwr having far more and more complex thermal limits.

when i took my bwr gfes in 1992 it was a 100 question test. now it is 50 questions. you need to score a 80 to pass. the genesis of the test is as follows. back in the day theory was on nrc exams. an individual passed the overall exam but failed the theory portion so he did not get his license. the individual took the nrc to court and won a victory of sorts because the basis of his lawsuit was it's only a theory, no one has ever looked inside a reactor or a molecule of heated water to prove the
theory was a fact. now the judge never made a ruling however to head off any ruling which might impede the ability to throw out theory on as a basis for exams the nrc agreed to let the individual take only a theory exam vice retake the entire exam. also they made theory and such it's w exam and made it a pre req to getting a license vice a part of the license exam itself.

this doesn't keep them from having questions on theory on exams they simply disguise it as plant transient response and don't have a specific section on it.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Thanks mike. No one here has mentioned said test, so I guess they have a while before it crops up again.

That said... would a good cover page trump an "objectives" statement? Do you desire that spot to be there on the resume?

[JustinHEMI05]

PWR GFES in the bag.

[Cycoticpenguin]

PWR GFES in the bag.

glad to hear it.

[Pman52]

PWR GFES in the bag.

Nice work...

[Fahrenschnell]

PWR GFES in the bag.

Good Job.....Do you stress about those tests, or are they second nature at this point?

[JustinHEMI05]

Good Job.....Do you stress about those tests, or are they second nature at this point?

Second nature at this point.

Don't ask me about my attendance during this GFES course.

[HydroDave63]

Second nature at this point.

Don't ask me about my attendance during this GFES course.

If you scored over 80 you over-studied

[GatorNuke007]

I was just recently hired as an auxiliary operator and the only thing that seemed to work for me involving landing an interview was knowing someone that worked at the plant or had connections there. I met the person that hired me at a job fair but all the other interviews i went on were started by me getting the number to HR and calling.

[Cycoticpenguin]

basically, from what i can see, the only thing thats constant is that everything and every person is different and has different experiences.

[JustinHEMI05]

If you scored over 80 you over-studied

Um... yeah about that studying thing. 

[JustinHEMI05]

I was just recently hired as an auxiliary operator and the only thing that seemed to work for me involving landing an interview was knowing someone that worked at the plant or had connections there. I met the person that hired me at a job fair but all the other interviews i went on were started by me getting the number to HR and calling.

You're right sir, back on topic. My GFES has nothing to do with this.

But yes, having someone on the inside does help. That is why I offer my services here to good people all the time.

[MacGyver]

You're right sir, back on topic. My GFES has nothing to do with this.

But yes, having someone on the inside does help. That is why I offer my services here to good people all the time.

 HydroDave63, BroadZilla and you sir do a fine job in this area.  Kudos.    {if I had it to give; x3}

[JustinHEMI05]

HydroDave63, BroadZilla and you sir do a fine job in this area.  Kudos.    {if I had it to give; x3}

You can for 10 cents a day.

[Fermi2]

HydroDave63, BroadZilla and you sir do a fine job in this area.  Kudos.    {if I had it to give; x3}

thanks

[Shayne]

DTE found my resume on-line when I was hired at Fermi. It was about 8 pages of bullets of every thing I had done and I didn't think it was search able.  However, It got me into interview where I was offered a job.

I think a cover letter is better than an objective statement. Especially if you have a long resume.  You also could use cover letter to explain why you are qualified for NLO job if your resume doesn't have recent applicable experience. It appears the the biggest item you have against you is you have been out of industry for a while.  I have found some of the Navy Nukes that I have been interviewing in the last few years, the longer they have been out of power plants, the less they seem qualified to operate or work on them.

[MacGyver]

DTE found my resume on-line when I was hired at Fermi. It was about 8 pages of bullets of every thing I had done and I didn't think it was search able.  However, It got me into interview where I was offered a job.

I think a cover letter is better than an objective statement. Especially if you have a long resume.  You also could use cover letter to explain why you are qualified for NLO job if your resume doesn't have recent applicable experience. It appears the the biggest item you have against you is you have been out of industry for a while.  I have found some of the Navy Nukes that I have been interviewing in the last few years, the longer they have been out of power plants, the less they seem qualified to operate or work on them.

Shayne can you elaborate for our quests (and me too) on "seems" vs what you are hiring?  Allow me to clarify.  Are you still considerting for interview and/or hiring these ex-navy nukes or passing them bye?  And, {follow-up}, what are the results if you are hiring them?

Thank you.

[Shayne]

I no longer work in the nuclear world, but do work on power plants.  I still look to hire Navy Nukes, but have found that the people that left the industry (power/utilities) and are looking to get 'back' into power plants, don't interview as well.  About 2/3 of the dozen or so didn't do well on technical side of the interview.  The rest did move on in the process and one has been hired.

Why?  I'm not sure, maybe they got out of the power business because they were not interested in the business and forgot what they did know about power plants.  Maybe they are just overconfident. 

[Cycoticpenguin]

I no longer work in the nuclear world, but do work on power plants.  I still look to hire Navy Nukes, but have found that the people that left the industry (power/utilities) and are looking to get 'back' into power plants, don't interview as well.  About 2/3 of the dozen or so didn't do well on technical side of the interview.  The rest did move on in the process and one has been hired.

Why?  I'm not sure, maybe they got out of the power business because they were not interested in the business and forgot what they did know about power plants.  Maybe they are just overconfident. 

bazinga!

"We were nukes in the navy. we know everything!" 


I can see that being a problem.

[drayer54]

bazinga!
"We were nukes in the navy. we know everything!" 
I can see that being a problem.

I am going to track down my old SLPO and find out where those 6 figure "to sweep the floor" jobs are.....
I'm also curious if flail management is a desired skill on the outside.....

[Cycoticpenguin]

I am going to track down my old SLPO and find out where those 6 figure "to sweep the floor" jobs are.....
I'm also curious if flail management is a desired skill on the outside.....

to segue this back on topic. We are brainwashed as pups in the nuke program that we are the cream of the crop, that no one is better then us, and that when we get out we are going to be the best of the best. Then you get and reality knocks on your door. I think this is one of the major problems with navy nukes. I can somewhat understand why employers would be slightly reticent about hiring us, and probably more to do with our attitude then our back ground.

Anyone care to chime in on that?

[Marlin]

to segue this back on topic. We are brainwashed as pups in the nuke program that we are the cream of the crop, that no one is better then us, and that when we get out we are going to be the best of the best. Then you get and reality knocks on your door. I think this is one of the major problems with navy nukes. I can somewhat understand why employers would be slightly reticent about hiring us, and probably more to do with our attitude then our back ground.

Anyone care to chime in on that?

   Not far off of the mark. What many recently separated nukes forget is that they are the nubs again. They just have a good foundation and proven track record of an ability to learn, an above average IQ (by more than a slim margin) proven by acceptance into the program, and a work ethic (Fast Attack sailors anyway). There are company owners,
presidents, and Chief Operating Officers who were exNavy Nukes at a number of companies in the Oak Ridge area that have nothing to so with power production. Most of them ex ELTs. The time in the Navy is valuable but it needs to be put in perspective each employer wants to know what you can do for them and their company does not weigh anchor and throw off a bow line.

[Cycoticpenguin]

   Not far off of the mark. What many recently separated nukes forget is that they are the nubs again. They just have a good foundation and proven track record of an ability to learn, an above average IQ (by more than a slim margin) proven by acceptance into the program, and a work ethic (Fast Attack sailors anyway). There are company owners,
presidents, and Chief Operating Officers who were exNavy Nukes at a number of companies in the Oak Ridge area that have nothing to so with power production. Most of them ex ELTs. The time in the Navy is valuable but it needs to be put in perspective each employer wants to know what you can do for them and their company does not weigh anchor and throw off a bow line.

good thing we have justin, mikey, and xe-free here to set us straight hahaa

I found out that my plant actually didnt hire a navy nuke O.o. Makes me wonder what he said in his interview!!!  Our AOMT told the class he hired us all because of our attitudes, not whether or not we can do the job. so thats kinda cool to know.

[HydroDave63]

I found out that my plant actually didnt hire a navy nuke O.o. Makes me wonder what he said in his interview!!! 

Perhaps he was one of the dingbats recruited by MM1 Subnuke? 

[JustinHEMI05]

good thing we have justin, mikey, and xe-free here to set us straight hahaa

I found out that my plant actually didnt hire a navy nuke O.o. Makes me wonder what he said in his interview!!!  Our AOMT told the class he hired us all because of our attitudes, not whether or not we can do the job. so thats kinda cool to know.

Not all navy nukes are worth while.

Shouldn't you be studying something?

Justin

[Cycoticpenguin]

Not all navy nukes are worth while.

Shouldn't you be studying something?

Justin

Oh dear justin. I wish to god you had to sit through NLO training Youd have a new found appreciate for the difficulty of yours



MARSSIM ->

OM NOM NOM!

[drayer54]

Oh dear justin. I wish to god you had to sit through NLO training Youd have a new found appreciate for the difficulty of yours

You could always get a new job writting the POW for our base.  

Perhaps he was one of the dingbats recruited by MM1 Subnuke?  

He probably recruited him at the Larry Memorial.

Eating your own young is a hard habit to break,....mostly because they are so tasty,...

He had to be told the same thing on the ship.....