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Offline Higgs

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Rain and Fukushima
« on: Aug 20, 2011, 12:18 »
Friends,

So I see this "boom" in "geiger counter" sales and every amateur with a video camera making videos of their new gadgets in the rain which they then correlate to fukushima fall out, such as this one;




I would like to hear what the experts on NW.com have to say about this sort of thing.

Thanks!

Justin
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Offline Karl

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #1 on: Aug 20, 2011, 05:26 »
I'm no expert, but it's most likely just Radon daughters deposited on the vehicle by both the rain and movement through the air.  What is sometimes informally referred to in the industry as being "Gassed up."  The real test would be to wait and re-measure the same sample later to see if it decays down.  

Those mickey mouse meters with the goofy warning messages only add to the general public's paranoia.  
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Offline Higgs

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #2 on: Aug 20, 2011, 07:02 »
I agree, it is not indicative of fukushima fallout.
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Offline Mike_Koehler

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #3 on: Aug 22, 2011, 06:33 »
It is ~150 micro-Rem/hr or 0.15 milliRem/hr........ *occupancy factor (stated as 15 minute squall) = almost .04 milliRem. These guys crack me up......

Mike
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Offline Starkist

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #4 on: Aug 23, 2011, 06:53 »
*cough cough* temperature inversion *Cough cough*

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Offline Higgs

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #5 on: Aug 23, 2011, 06:54 »
No.

I asked for experts, not fish.  8)
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Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #6 on: Aug 23, 2011, 08:09 »
Quote from: TheHiggs on Aug 23, 2011, 06:54
No.

I asked for experts, not fish.  8)

I wish, I wish I was a fish!

« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2013, 08:48 by HydroDave63 »
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Offline GLW

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #7 on: Aug 23, 2011, 08:44 »
Quote from: Starkist on Aug 23, 2011, 06:53
*cough cough* temperature inversion *Cough cough*



Hey!! whatever happened to RP's should stick to RP and ops to ops?!?!?!

Walk your talk or,.....

or just be something less,...
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Offline Incline

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #8 on: Aug 23, 2011, 10:07 »
Lets see...a uncalibrated meter bought off e-bay by a guy who wants donations so he can drive from western Canada to Eastern Canada taking background radiation reading with his "meter".

My guess would be that the road spray on his windshield has small amounts of uranium from the various mines in that part Canada. Plus his "meter" is not calibrated and therefore his results are suspect. It's not Fukishima.

He could have a radium dial watch that is a too close to the probe for all we know. But I seriously doubt its a temperature inversion since its raining and radon daughters are EXTREMELY difficult (impossible) to see with a GM tube.

All I can say to him is "Don't eat the local food...eh, and good luck with those donations"
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Offline Starkist

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #9 on: Aug 23, 2011, 11:47 »
Quote from: TheHiggs on Aug 23, 2011, 06:54
No.

I asked for experts, not fish.  8)

didnt you get the memo? Im not even fish. Im just the bait or tackle at this point :p


Quote from: GLW on Aug 23, 2011, 08:44
Hey!! whatever happened to RP's should stick to RP and ops to ops?!?!?!

Walk your talk or,.....

or just be something less,...

Im nothing, so I have free reign right? :P
 


I was joking gentlemen, dont take me seriously for the next few months :p haha
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Offline Higgs

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #10 on: Aug 23, 2011, 11:50 »
LMFAO I've been blocked by the owner of the vids for making comments contrary to his findings. ;D
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MacGyver

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #11 on: Aug 24, 2011, 07:52 »
Quote from: Starkist on Aug 23, 2011, 11:47
didnt you get the memo? Im not even fish. Im just the bait or tackle at this point :p


Im nothing, so I have free reign right? :P
 


I was joking gentlemen, dont take me seriously for the next few months :p haha

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Offline Mikey

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #12 on: Feb 10, 2013, 01:33 »
I had to sign up again Nukeworker - it ate my old login!  >:(

Right fallout and Fukushima.

I'm trying to figure out a gamma spec line - right on 490 keV =- 2 keV ... crisp, loud and sharp.
If could be a radon daughter - but ... I can't identify with my limited searches.

There are a few things it could be - but ... opening the floor to suggestions gentlemen!
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Offline GLW

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #13 on: Feb 10, 2013, 08:06 »
Quote from: Mikey on Feb 10, 2013, 01:33
I had to sign up again Nukeworker - it ate my old login!  >:(

Right fallout and Fukushima.

I'm trying to figure out a gamma spec line - right on 490 keV =- 2 keV ... crisp, loud and sharp.
If could be a radon daughter - but ... I can't identify with my limited searches.

There are a few things it could be - but ... opening the floor to suggestions gentlemen!

We do not know your context,...

Start with Thallium,...

http://www.orau.org/ptp/PTP%20Library/library/Subject/health%20physics%20general/RHH.pdf

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Offline spentfuel

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #14 on: Feb 11, 2013, 01:00 »
Energy (keV)     Intensity     Remarks     Associated energies (keV)     Production     Half life     Parent
488.0 0.092      373.5 602.7 C  1.78 m     136Pm
488.0 0.005      197.9 214.9 F  10.50 m     186Ta
488.0 0.0023      667.718 772.6 IF  2.30 h     132I
488.0 0.0138      140.7 251.2 I  2.22 s     146Ba
488.0 0.0009      312.072 407.63 IF  12.50 m     133Te
488.0 0.0023      667.718 772.6 IF  2.30 h     132I
488.05 0.00039      10.6 74.9694 C  15.31 d     205Bi
488.1 0.0026      511.0 264.46 C  2.07 m     99Ag
488.1 0.00088      42.9962 352.24 C  4.12 h     149Tb
488.1 0.0018      511.0 286.5 C  1.61 h     75Br
488.18 0.00127      116.8 255.68 I  12.44 m     151Nd
488.19 0.00034      49.1277 6.95 C  7.70 h     166Tm
488.2 0.00014      15.0 109.29 C  4.94 d     245Bk
488.2 0.0036      297.32 325.7 CIF  4.86 h     73Ga
488.24 0.014      385.85 10.3 C  43.00 m     197mPb
488.3 6.999E-5      123.071 1274.436 IFT  8.59 y     154Eu
488.3 9.700001E-4      211.475 798.79 I  14.33 s     143Ba
488.3 0.00092      255.3 1204.3 I  10.60 m     142Ba
488.3 0.0008      511.0 204.95 C  32.40 m     107In
488.4 0.0034      671.0 77.11 -  11.50 m     200Po
488.5 1.43E-6      51.4225 20.2161 FT  4.34 m     104mRh
488.5 2.787E-5      555.81 19.2792 FT  42.3 s     104Rh
488.5 0.0008      220.948 586.03 I  3.15 m     89Kr
488.6 0.0017      36.0263 108.9 -  50.65 m     136Nd
488.65 0.00017      42.9962 86.55 CF  5.32 d     155Tb
488.66 0.00407      40.1181 121.7825 FT  13.54 y     152Eu
488.7 0.00011      194.05 847.93 IF  3.75 m     107Ru
488.7 0.00037      11.4 81.52 -  2.40 h     210Rn
488.8 0.00073      826.6 47.5467 CPF  3.21 h     161Er
488.82 0.00074      42.9962 212.038 C  2.34 d     153Tb
488.82 0.00074      42.9962 212.038 C  2.34 d     153Tb
488.82 0.00091      15.0 1078.86 -  25.00 m     246mAm
488.88 0.0145      847.03 884.09 IF  52.50 m     134I
488.9 0.0039      511.0 832.52 C  9.90 m     96Rh
488.9 0.0025      511.0 89.7 C  11.50 m     74Kr
489.0 0.00227      42.9962 123.07 C  21.50 h     154Tb
489.0 0.00267      72.8715 10.3 C  12.00 m     194Pb
489.0 0.007      59.3182 365.5 C  19.90 h     181Re
489.0 0.0000935      306.86 19.2792 CF  4.34 d     101mRh
489.039 0.119      569.36 205.7955 F  5.9 s     192mOs
489.039 0.00443      316.508 468.0716 FT  73.83 d     192Ir
489.049 0.198      511.0 784.43 C  1.00 h     148Tb
489.05 0.0133      194.05 847.93 IF  3.75 m     107Ru
489.1 0.00053      306.83 545.06 IFT  14.22 m     101Tc
489.1 0.42      511.0 154.48 C  1.25 m     111Sb
489.17 0.0001586      596.56 40.85 C  9.19 h     62Zn
489.2 0.00019      550.284 629.987 C  54.50 d     148Eu
489.2 0.0123      296.89 63.0005 C  16.64 h     186Ir
489.23 0.062      1297.09 807.86 FT  4.54 d     47Ca
489.24 0.00153      91.105 38.7247 IFT  10.98 d     147Nd
489.25 0.0014      52.3889 7.42 C  1.42 d     169Lu
489.3 0.029      30.9728 30.6251 C  1.67 h     126Ba
489.3 0.013      497.31 511.0 C  32.10 m     115Sb
489.4 0.0013      9.71 66.7 C  3.25 m     188Hg
489.48 0.0055      724.3 469.37 IFT  4.44 h     105Ru
489.49 0.0043      108.788 506.592 I  8.57 s     91Kr
489.5 0.00148      511.0 1299.92 C  3.49 m     114Sb
489.5 0.0014      6.27 44.4816 C  17.90 m     151Dy
489.5 0.00978      1751.0 915.0 -  9.6 s     96mY
489.52 0.0273      684.34 516.32 C  9.20 m     204At
489.6 0.045      636.7 411.8 C  1.87 h     198mTl
489.6 0.32      310.4 9.44 -  6.80 m     185mAu
489.61 0.0023      66.832 9.44 C  17.65 h     193Au
489.7 0.02      169.42 414.25 C  10.20 m     131Ce
489.7 0.0028      189.49 473.94 I  2.08 s     77Zn
489.7 0.0023      28.612 25.1 C  40.00 m     120Xe
489.8 0.0073      257.34 122.37 C  5.67 h     90Mo
489.8 0.0081      140.7 251.2 I  2.22 s     146Ba
489.8 0.014      102.7 19.2792 I  21.2 s     107Tc
489.8 0.075      289.4 112.2 -  51.0 s     181Pt
489.8 0.0104      511.0 65.0 C  3.40 m     73Br
489.9 3.444E-5      47.5467 94.7 FT  2.33 h     165Dy
489.9 0.0036      511.0 559.09 C  16.20 h     76Br
489.9 9.273E-5      212.2 27.4723 C  2.12 h     121I
489.9 0.0027      511.0 14.165 -  7.08 m     83Y
489.9 0.055      511.0 14.165 -  7.08 m     83Y
489.9 0.008      469.137 546.13 I  2.1 s     99Zr
490.0 0.0008      818.514 1048.073 F  13.16 d     136Cs
490.1 0.0037      301.702 1357.78 IF  2.27 m     148Pr
490.2 0.0018      315.7 11.9242 C  14.80 h     76Kr
490.2 0.0011      74.9694 10.6 C  11.76 h     203Bi
490.24 0.00132      511.0 11.2224 C  39.80 m     73mSe
490.26 0.00126      340.08 40.1181 IT  1.18 d     151Pm
490.3 0.00063      112.1 68.8037 C  1.38 m     186Hg
490.3 0.0088      511.0 204.09 -  12.40 m     135Nd
490.33 0.0001144      13.0 911.205 N  6.15 h     228Ac
490.34 1.17E-6      27.4723 27.2017 IFT  33.60 d     129mTe
490.34 0.0016      811.77 88.9656 IF  15.19 d     156Eu
490.368 0.0216      293.266 36.0263 IFT  1.38 d     143Ce
490.4 0.0011      728.18 879.37 C  25.60 m     160Ho
490.4 0.0045      228.12 52.3889 C  2.65 m     166Lu
490.4 0.0006      728.18 879.37 C  5.02 h     160mHo
490.4 0.0019      117.718 186.32 I  4.015 s     147La
490.422 0.0042      7.42 78.75 F  2.65 d     172Tm
490.451 0.0192      1093.61 52.39 C  6.70 d     172Lu
490.47 9.100001E-2      960.7 422.12 C  3.53 h     202mPb
490.5 0.043      72.0 63.0 CF  1.55 h     230Ra
490.5 0.0014      27.37 12.7 T  42.20 m     227Ra
490.53 1.092E-5      739.5 181.068 IT  2.75 d     99Mo
490.6 0.00065      344.28 511.0 C  17.50 h     152Tb
490.6 0.00034      229.32 41.5422 C  1.59 d     147Gd
490.6 0.024      143.26 107.945 I  7.60 m     105Tc
490.7 0.0036      63.0005 8.91 C  57.00 m     183Ir
490.7 0.0033      511.0 286.5 C  1.61 h     75Br
490.76 0.0078      186.68 63.0005 CF  11.78 d     190Ir
490.76 0.0346      186.68 605.14 CF  3.20 h     190mRe
490.76 0.0032      220.948 586.03 I  3.15 m     89Kr
490.78 0.00108      116.8 255.68 I  12.44 m     151Nd
490.8 0.0017      8.22 13.3 T  22.30 m     233Th
490.8 0.0019      74.9694 10.6 C  1.80 h     201Bi
490.8 0.00062      316.74 218.23 I  13.52 m     146Ce
490.9 0.053      1114.3 1095.6 IF  2.10 h     127Sn
490.9 0.00015      211.475 798.79 I  14.33 s     143Ba
490.9 0.009      102.7 19.2792 I  21.2 s     107Tc
490.95 0.000224      52.3889 7.42 C  2.01 d     170Lu
491.0 5.27E-6      12.7 27.36 N  3.28E+4 y     231Pa
491.0 0.063      310.4 9.44 -  6.80 m     185mAu
491.0 0.0052      511.0 179.4 -  2.03 m     121mCs
491.15 0.00107      44.4816 43.7441 C  6.40 h     153Dy
491.2 0.085      467.7 521.1 I  33.3 s     81As
491.2 0.00039      206.5 511.0 C  1.05 h     174Ta
491.243 0.0285      388.633 666.331 CF  13.11 d     126I
491.27 0.0027      1383.93 953.31 I  2.71 h     92Sr
491.27 0.05      511.0 388.66 C  1.63 m     126Cs
491.28 0.007      66.832 9.44 C  17.65 h     193Au
491.3 0.9      1348.0 1564.0 IF  4.13 m     127mSn
491.3 0.024      2077.9 333.99 I  17.5 s     136Te
491.3 0.0      11.2224 103.01 IFT  57.28 m     81mSe
491.3 0.000061      50.7416 49.7726 C  1.26 h     164Yb
491.3 0.0      427.875 27.4723 IFT  2.76 y     125Sb
491.4 0.0007      191.92 590.91 IFT  14.61 m     101Mo
491.47 0.0146      218.59 296.53 I  39.68 s     139Xe
491.47 0.0034      218.59 296.53 I  39.68 s     139Xe
491.5 0.00031      55.7902 7.9 C  2.36 d     177Ta
491.5 0.00121      167.4 196.1 -  0.893 s     147Ba
491.591 0.027      327.428 14.6 T  10.50 h     245Pu
491.6 0.03      276.4 131.9 C  1.50 m     180Ir
491.64 0.0008      49.1277 48.2211 C  1.81 h     163Tm
491.64 0.0005      63.0005 8.91 C  1.73 d     188Ir
491.7 0.0018      638.05 511.0 C  3.48 h     150Tb
491.7 0.0038      326.83 426.14 I  1.33 m     109Rh
491.74 0.0127      63.0005 8.91 C  10.50 h     187Ir
491.82 4.131E-5      404.853 832.01 N  36.10 m     211Pb
491.9 0.0027      635.8 778.5 -  59.1 s     208Fr
491.9 0.0037      511.0 9.44 -  11.4 s     181Au
491.9 0.0006      728.18 879.37 C  5.02 h     160mHo
491.93 0.0008      253.42 323.89 I  1.286 s     93Kr
491.93 1.155E-5      27.81 459.6 IFT  1.16 h     129Te
492.0 0.0001      20.2161 20.0737 CF  8.47 h     101Pd
492.0 0.05      289.4 112.2 -  51.0 s     181Pt
492.0 0.0035      64.8956 9.18 C  2.35 h     187Pt

maybe more info than you asked for  ;)

hope that helps sf
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Offline Marlin

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #15 on: Feb 11, 2013, 01:29 »
Quote from: Mikey on Feb 10, 2013, 01:33
I had to sign up again Nukeworker - it ate my old login!  >:(

Right fallout and Fukushima.

I'm trying to figure out a gamma spec line - right on 490 keV =- 2 keV ... crisp, loud and sharp.
If could be a radon daughter - but ... I can't identify with my limited searches.

There are a few things it could be - but ... opening the floor to suggestions gentlemen!

Source Fukishima.

Sample location US for fallout or Japan for release evaluation?

Half Life?

I will make a stab at Bismuth I have seen it on a number of particulate samples high in radon daughters. You need to fill in a lot of blanks to get a real answer.




That's just my opinion I could be wrong.   Dennis Miller  :)
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Offline GLW

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Re: Rain and Fukushima
« Reply #16 on: Feb 11, 2013, 06:27 »
Quote from: spentfuel on Feb 11, 2013, 01:00
Energy (keV)     Intensity     Remarks     Associated energies (keV)     Production     Half life     Parent
488.0 0.092      373.5 602.7 C  1.78 m     136Pm.......................

maybe more info than you asked for  ;)

hope that helps sf

 ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

stop bein' a smartass and killing the poor boy you old codger!!!!!!

I screened out 55 of those entries based on half life on my 72 second cursory long hard glance,...

context, Mikey needs context,...
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