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Offline navynukedoc

Outages and returnees
« on: Dec 16, 2011, 02:29 »
Anyone have an idea on how staffing goes for outages? I know returning people get preference, but how does someone get into a plant that has never been there? I have been working with a few staffing companies for spring outages, but haven't gotten any approvals for a HP spot anywhere in 3 months.

Am I just worrying too soon that I won't find any work in the spring? I am an 18.1 HP with 4 more months needed to be a 3.1.

Any advice, ideas, or knowledge is appreciated.

-Doc
"Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence" - George Washington

LaFeet

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #1 on: Dec 16, 2011, 02:36 »
Doc,  what was your rate on the EPrise?

If previously a SMAG then you might have a better chance at getting in.  I was an RO, but had extensive DOE/DOD experience prior to my first outage (RIVERBEND- DRYWELL- nights muahahahaha).  Once you get your foot into the room do the best that you can and keep your work quality and quantity as high as possible.  No need to B nose, just work hard and make yourself an asset.

After that you will get requested more often.  But there is no guarantee that the company (Big B or DZ) will submit your resume to the places you want.

Case in point, I was requested for Fort Calhoun and I asked to go back there..... recruiter told me I was not approved, the RPM asked why I did not submit my resume.....

Do the best you can and most likely you will be asked for during future outages.

Good luck, happy holidays, and thank you for your service - Lafeet

Offline navynukedoc

Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #2 on: Dec 17, 2011, 01:45 »
Doc,  what was your rate on the EPrise?

Case in point, I was requested for Fort Calhoun and I asked to go back there..... recruiter told me I was not approved, the RPM asked why I did not submit my resume.....

Good luck, happy holidays, and thank you for your service - Lafeet

I was a corpsman. An actual true HP not RadCon, however, I did alot of time in spaces when we were floating. Got qual'd for checkpoint monitor and did some extensive space surveys so RP, HP, RCT, RPT are one in the same to me.


I am afraid you may be right about not having my resume submitted to a site. I was working with a recruiter for a specific set of outages this spring before my last one was finished. Called twice a week and was told that Company "A" was great about hiring "new blood" for their outages. After 3 months of calls i got an all of a sudden, "They have all been staffed" response from him.

It kind of sucks that you make yourself known, and then something like this happens. I know that there are alot of techs not retiring, or even more plants aren't bringing on as many road techs on board as before, but I don't want to get stuck at the current plant 2 times a year (if there are no cancelled outages like Surry), which would take me 2 more years to get my last 4 months of experience to move to a 3.1 level.

I am just praying that someone picks me up for a couple f jobs this spring. Kids don't get fed and mortgages don't get paid on UI!!

And thanks for your service as well! Hope your Christmas and New Year's are both safe and blessed!
"Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence" - George Washington

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #3 on: Dec 17, 2011, 10:18 »
Doc,
The best advice I can give you is to stop focusing on particular outages and take whatever the recruiters have to offer.

There is a lot of smack talked here about certain plants, and why some people don't want to go back there.  But you ought to ignore that for now until you have worked in the business for several more years.

The rationale is this.  If you take the jobs that everyone else is avoiding, you will get work while they are sitting at the house because they refused it.

Meanwhile, beware of getting what you ask for.  Things aren't always what they seem to be.  If you are just looking at the outage schedule, and you see one that looks like it will last for months, it doesn't mean that they will keep the whole RP staff there for the duration.  People salivate over the prospect of a single job giving them 9-12 weeks of work in the same place, and they jump on it.  Then, you hear them crying that they got laid off after 18 days and had to scramble to get another spot somewhere else.

I always got lots more work by telling them that I will go wherever they want me to go.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #4 on: Dec 17, 2011, 11:04 »
Try making contacts at the actual place you went to work.  Then that place will ask FOR YOU from whatever staffing company staffs the job next outage, or put in a good word for you at another plant site with the same company (like Exelon, PGE, dominion....).  That is how I get to go where I want MOST of the time.  Do you remember anyone's number from your past outages at the plant site?

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #5 on: Dec 18, 2011, 02:39 »
Try making contacts at the actual place you went to work.  Then that place will ask FOR YOU from whatever staffing company staffs the job next outage, or put in a good word for you at another plant site with the same company (like Exelon, PGE, dominion....).  That is how I get to go where I want MOST of the time.  Do you remember anyone's number from your past outages at the plant site?

This is a great way to make sure that you are never ever ever considered for any other work other than that where you are requested by name.  You might get where you want to go, but you won't go anywhere else unless everybody else is unavailable.
Remember that Bartlett, Atlantic, et.al. are your employer. Exelon, FP&L, FENOC, and the like ARE NOT.  You really have no business going behind the back of your employer and contacting their customers directly, but lots of people do it.  Yet, they can't figure out why the office is constantly "forgetting" to submit their resumes or giving them short shrift on all other kinds of things.

The office is full of people who will remember when you screw up their  work, make their jobs difficult, and go behind their back.  If you can find fault with them taking exception to you f---ing up their staffing like that, then you deserve what you get.

Don't be that guy.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

radrat

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #6 on: Dec 18, 2011, 03:16 »
Samich has a good point, if the plant takes notice that you do a good job for them they will sometime ask for you by name or like he said put in a good word for you. It really depends on YOU... if you stand out in the crowd you will be noticed. If you stand out for the wrong reasons.. well thats self explanatory.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #7 on: Dec 18, 2011, 03:55 »
That is all true, but if you have to call them to get them to ask for you, then they didn't really want you all that badly.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #8 on: Dec 18, 2011, 04:34 »
This is a great way to make sure that you are never ever ever considered for any other work other than that where you are requested by name.  You might get where you want to go, but you won't go anywhere else unless everybody else is unavailable.
Remember that Bartlett, Atlantic, et.al. are your employer. Exelon, FP&L, FENOC, and the like ARE NOT.  You really have no business going behind the back of your employer and contacting their customers directly, but lots of people do it.  Yet, they can't figure out why the office is constantly "forgetting" to submit their resumes or giving them short shrift on all other kinds of things.

The office is full of people who will remember when you screw up their  work, make their jobs difficult, and go behind their back.  If you can find fault with them taking exception to you f---ing up their staffing like that, then you deserve what you get.

Don't be that guy.


Not true for me.  fine if it works for you.  I've had staffers tell me half truths more than once in an attempt to put me where they wanted me.  For instance telling me a plant is fully staffed when it is not.  Plus plenty of others.  I tried to work with them at first but have had plenty of success doing it this way.  Even if I don't get the most work (which hasn't happened yet), I get to go where I want work with who I want when I want (so far 6 years).  I find the best way to get alot of work is to work very hard and help out the people you actually work for at the plants, they will tell others about you and pull hard to get you back.  I have been requested from other plants for the same company just because of my performance at the first plant.  And Bartlett and Atlantic still call me every season with requests to work plants I've never worked before when they aren't fully staffed.  I'd rather be the guy who works hard at the plant site instead of good old boying with bartlett or atlantic to get where I want to go.

Once again we have someone on this site who thinks only his experience matters and everyone else doesn't know.  Speak for yourself, not as an omniscient god, because you aren't as smart as you think you are.  Someone else needs to "not be that guy" as well.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #9 on: Dec 18, 2011, 05:40 »
It's nice that you have all those six years experience to back up your notion that  doing what your employer needs you to do is "good old boying".

My career on the road started in 1987.  How old were you then?

Yes, there is no dispute that the office will tell you what they want you to know.  They will tell you that an outage is staffed when what they can't tell you is that they just don't want to send you there because they need you elsewhere.  But, go ahead and backstab them to get what you want.  After all, it is always all about what YOU want anyway.  Doesn't every employer see it that way?  I don't think so.

Man, I'm just hitting you with reality.  For the past five years, my job has included staffing outages (in another capacity).  You can make book on the fact that the guy who manages to arrange all his own work despite the fact that the company needs him somewhere else is NOT the guy we call first when a really good deal comes up.
There is only so much work to go around.  Lots of times, we can use everybody as much as they want to work.  Other times, there is only enough to make a few people financially chubby while the others take what we have left.

When one person pulls strings, calls in chits, works the angles, and arranges to pressure me into putting him on a five week outage - and I know damned well that he could work two six-week jobs that conflict with the one he wants - he gets what he wants.  Someone else gets 7 weeks more work.  He can think all he wants that he got over on me, but I know the truth.

At least I never have to tell half-truths or full out lies.  I just tell the simple truth.  "There is a paycheck waiting for you at the plant where I'm sending you.  If you go somewhere else, there isn't."  That usually does the trick.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #10 on: Dec 18, 2011, 07:15 »
I've been in nuclear power since 1988.  I guess I have to explain everything, no reading between the lines for this guy, most people have other experiences under their belt besides traveling 3.1.  Takes a while to get there, and other experiences in nuclear power are important too.

  I never said you didn't know what you were talking about when it comes to your experiences.  You should stop belittling others with your know it all tone.  I've told what has worked for me as a traveling tech for the last 6 years.

Congratulations on telling the truth to your prospective recruits.  Reminds me of chris rock's "I take care of my kids". Your supposed to tell the truth.  I don't want to rely on recruiters feeding me a line of BS, so I went to the ultimate source for the job when the recruiters weren't working for me.  I don't know how many of my friends have said "bartlett said they would do this after I did that but......"  so I decided to look out for number one, just like bartlett and atlantic do.

  - don't be that guy

If this guy (op) doesn't have a job anyway, why not try something different?  this guy is getting the line you said people get when they go around recruiters.  sounds like he is getting the bs line by doing it the way you say to do it, so try something else.

Content1

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #11 on: Dec 18, 2011, 07:51 »
It is like anything else in life.  You get some jobs you want, and sometimes you lose.  I could never get to Diablo Canyon unless half the original crew retired, and alternates were unavailable.   One time when I tried to get to Palo Verde, I was told they only take returnees.    I was a returnee, then they said only from the most-recent outage.  I think the willingness to take anything is a key, along with contacting more than one recruiter and one company.    I tried to get into Hanford back in 2009, and got approved only after I accepted my current position. (As it turned out, I would have been laid off with the droves of others had I went there).    The world or the recruiter does not owe you a living; it  be mutual.     You want the job; they want you.  Sometimes they have someone else in mind, and you're the backup, and when the original accepts, you should make alternate plans.   Sometimes things are beyond your control.    I have been chosen for layoffs at times with little more justifications than others were preferred.    I got another job where I was wanted and needed.   Life goes on.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #12 on: Dec 18, 2011, 09:33 »
You are right about that telling the truth business.

The reason Bartlett and DZ have to resort to lying, is that they lie to you from the start.  The idea that they give you a "wish list" as if you actually have some kind of choice is the reason they have to give you a BS excuse when they don't make your wish come true.

Half of all lies or more are told to cover for another lie.  If they didn't tell you that a particular plant was on the table for you (when it really never was), they wouldn't have to cover that lie by telling you it is already staffed (when that isn't true either).

Frankly, I find it inefficient that they run the techs through this process.  Tell me if this makes any sense at all.
1. They put up a list of outages - or you just look at the NukeWorker.com schedule - or you hear it from a friend who heard it from a friend ... In any case, you are given the impression that it is your choice when and where you are going to work.
2. You call BNI or DZAtlantic and tell them where you want to work.
3. They submit your resume somewhere, but not necessarily where you asked them to.
4. They BS you about why you can't work where you wanted.
5. They offer you an alternative job that you don't really want - because you really wanted to dance with the pretty girl and not the one they are trying to set you up with.
6. The promise that if you take the job they need to fill, they will give you a plum job as a reward.
7. You settle on some job somewhere.
8. When it is time to cash in and get the plum job, you have to go up to step 2 and start all over from there.

You see what I mean?  It practically invites you to short-circuit the process and go behind their back -- but that doesn't make it right.

The only reason they have to lie to you about why you don't get your choice is that they were lying when they told you that they were offering you a choice. 
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Rennhack

Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #13 on: Dec 18, 2011, 10:47 »
The idea that they give you a "wish list" as if you actually have some kind

they were lying when they told you that they were offering you a choice. 

'Wish' and 'choice' aren't the same thing.  It's not called a choice list.

I go hunting, not killing.

Offline navynukedoc

Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #14 on: Dec 19, 2011, 09:37 »
I understand the concept of let your actions speak for themselves and you will be noticed. But the problem for me is, I have only worked one outage, so I only have one place to go back to. And only one job is not enough to pay the bills, as everyone here knows. I really don't want to go and contact the site directly, for one I don't know any people in the industry.

I don't have an issue with working for another job in a non outage position, it just seems all those positions want people with years of power plant experience!

And as far as being lied to, unfortunately that is just the nature of the beast, and I am confident that karma will return the favor. I just don't know how I am going to work, when it seems all the spots are being taken up by returnees. Which from what I have read on here for the last year, there should be way more spots open versus none being open to a guy who is new to power plants.

It is frustrating for sure. Just wish someone like me didn't have to struggle for work.

Wonder if I just send donuts in to the recruiters, if they would be more willing to work with me. (It worked with the detailers in DC)  ;)
"Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence" - George Washington

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #15 on: Dec 19, 2011, 10:06 »
I get it that B and A are looking out for themselves, no problem, that is why they pull all that rigamaroll.  I don't understand why people think it's not right to contact the plant.  These people ARE the customers, and B and A havn't always told them the truth either.  They want a certain tech and a certain tech wants to go, but both are told they can't for varying reasons not always true.  Bartlett had the chance to shape the perception of how recruiting gets done and they blew it, so people do what they have to do to work around these issues.  Actually I have gotten the truth out of them quite a bit more in the last couple of years, but the perception is there and all recruiters aren't made equally.  It will take a few years of straight and narrow for techs to really believe recruiters again.

To the OP, i would try everything, donuts included.  Also, if the plant you worked for is part of a larger corporation (usually yes) and you have any contacts, do try and see if they will help you get a job at a different plant.  Sometimes those contacts include someone at B or A, which has happened twice in my case to secure a job.  A job at pilgrim led me to st. lucie because someone knew someone (plant to bartlett).  When you need a job and aren't getting a job, nothing should be off the table within reason.  Call old navy buddies see if they have an in somewhere.  Next time you do get work make sure you get plenty of contacts.  Exhaust every option.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #16 on: Dec 19, 2011, 11:06 »
Donuts aren't going to do it.  But calling them a couple of times per week until outage season might.  Then step it up to daily around the second week in February.  Lay off it a little during the summer.  You want to be poised to strike, but don't nag them about it.  Also, this week and next aren't good for more than maybe one call total.  It's Christmas.  They aren't going to be getting new contracts until after the 1st.  They will be taking time off, etc.

After a year or two, you won't have to call them anymore.  They will be calling you.  That is another conversation altogether.

Here is the inside scoop:  If they say an outage is "staffed"  it only means that they have enough resumes approved by the site to fill the open slots.  It doesn't account for the techs who decline to confirm, the ones who back out after confirming, the techs who are somehow caught up in an access/badging issue, the ones who get sick or suddenly get hired as a house tech somewhere, the ones who bust out on the exams or FFD ...

There are going to be a lot of openings.  When those have to be filled quickly, the recruiter has to get on the phone and call a lot of people who aren't going to be available for whatever reason.  Sometimes it takes a dozen calls to get a yes.  If you just happen to be on the phone with them when they have an opening somewhere, you will be saving them a lot of work.  It really does work that way.  On the other hand, the fact that you are sitting at home wanting work, and you have let them know it, doesn't get your name to the top of the call list.  If you are 45th on the list, you are going to still be 45th on the list.  If you are already on the phone with them as they are about to dial number 11, you automatically become next in line.

Why is it not alright to call the plant?  Because you are not the company's authorized point of contact with that customer.  You are going outside your area of authority as far as they are concerned.  If, by doing that, you show up or embarrass the company you work for, that makes you a bad employee.  Remember the relationship here.  The company writes checks payable to you - not the other way around.  Because that is the case, they get to tell you what to do and when to do it.  They are your employer, not your agent.  The recruiter works for the company, not for you.

If the plant wants you, they put your name on a list of pre-approved techs.  Those techs are confirmed first.  Then, they submit a pile of resumes for the RPM to approve.  If your pal at the plant gives you the "why wasn't this guy's resume submitted?" line, he's just saving face with you.  The fact is that your resume may or may not have been submitted but they just didn't care enough to notice until you called them and brought it to their attention.  If they wanted you back, they would have already approved you - period.  If, however, your name was not on the pre-approved list, your resume was in a pile with all the others.  The fact that they approved and staffed the outage before they got down to your name does not mean that you weren't submitted.  It just means that they didn't give a s--t until you called.
Then, you call the RPM and he fakes outrage that he didn't get your resume.  You get in through the back door.  One of your fellow techs who was approved and confirmed now has just lost his job and has to find another.  You f---ed your fellow tech over.
Or, your resume was not approved because you were pre-approved at another site with a conflicting date.  Because they will never submit you to two outages which overlap, they are going to put your name on the shorter list.
In the case where there are split or backup contracts, your name will be automatically stricken if it is submitted by both companies.  If that happens, you can only get it put back on the list of one of the companies (but never the backup) if the other company agrees to withdraw it.

This is all really simple:  It is not the NFL.  You shouldn't call the site because you shouldn't have to.  If you have to call them to remind them that they wanted you, they didn't want you.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #17 on: Dec 19, 2011, 01:01 »
This situation has to be in the top three subjects of employment in the nuclear power field. 
Truth is, either of these approaches is correct.  That said, contacting the site is risky for alot of the reasons put forth and some others that have not seen the light of day on this thread.  The loyal employee route has it's inherent risks also, not all of which have been thrashed here, yet.
Employment in the traveling circus of nuclear power is a microcosm of employment in these United States of America.  It is simply a bit compressed due to time, distance, and thickness of skin. 
That said, there is risk in whatever path you take.  If there weren't, there would be no reward, i.e. work with pay.  There used to be a grade of nukeworker who would never take a job until the pay went up, be it due to insufficient staffing (which drove up the wage), incompetent staffing (which brought in sub-contractors and bigger wages), a combination of the two (again, more money), or a lousy site (which no one wanted to work at, but some one will always work somewhere if the money is good enough).  Did these techs take risks?  You betcha.  Did they always work?  Nope.  Did they make money?  Enough to justify their stance.  Did it help with career longevity?  You take your own poll, pal.
To sum it up, no matter what you do, it will be wrong and right.  Wrong for them and right for you.  Make sure that what is right for you is what you want. 
And as a cautionary word on calling site people who might be able to help.... make sure you know them.   Not simply have crossed their path, but really know them.  If you haven't been networking with them since your last time on their site, they may not be the best to call as soon as you need a job. 
Good luck!

Offline navynukedoc

Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #18 on: Dec 19, 2011, 01:02 »
Donuts aren't going to do it.

Thank for the insight AG. Although I am not looking to return, but to get an initial foot in. Your response was very helpful, and it makes sense.

And the donut comment was a joke. ;)
"Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence" - George Washington

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #19 on: Dec 19, 2011, 01:07 »

And the donut comment was a joke. ;)

That's not going to help your cause with the recruiters.   8)

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #20 on: Dec 19, 2011, 08:23 »
Totally agree with Atomic Archeologist.  A guy who will tell both sides of the story. 

As for the pre-approved list,you havent told the whole story, B and A have told plants a tech isn't available when he really is because they need him to go somewhere else; sometimes because one of their GOBs is going in your place for a myriad of reasons.  Forgot to mention that part huh, or maybe didn't know or don't believe it?  A guy who works higher up in bartlett told me less qualified/competent techs get better jobs sometimes just because they go where bartlett tells them to go.  It doesn't always have to do with not being on the preapproved list or being a better tech.  Let's tell both sides shall we??

As far as the company writing my checks...that is true.  But who writes the checks for the company annd why shouldn't they ultimately get what they want?  I am friends with a guy who was the house POC for Bartlett at one of the plants before 2004.  Time and time again he had to call bartlett to force them to send techs he wanted, that bartlett said were not available, and he had them on the other line according to him!!! I believe him, never lied about anything else to me.

One more thing too, B and A have cut bait with plenty of techs after traveling for a job they thought was going to last much longer.  If people can be treated like that by the plant and B and A, I think they have a right to be more choosey about the plant they want to work, and to get the real scoop from someone who actually works at the plant before they go if they have contacts/friends before the get screwed over by something everyone knew was coming but them.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #21 on: Dec 20, 2011, 02:01 »
You haven't said anything there that I don't agree with.  But, you are almost making my point for me.

If a person higher up in Bartlett tells you that a loyal employee is more valuable to the company than someone who is more qualified, then think about how valuable you would be to them by being both.

If you are a top of the line tech, that gives you some capital to work with.  If you spend that capital on getting your way at the expense of the company who pays you, you are wasting it.  But, if you compound it by adding loyalty and a strong work ethic, you are going to go much farther with it.

Your friend may not have lied, but that doesn't mean he knew the whole picture.  If you really want both sides of the story, the only place to get it is from someone who actually knows all three sides of the story.  (There are always at least three sides.)  When I say that someone is not available, it is because I know for sure that he is not.  He may not know it yet.  He may screw himself out of a pretty good deal that is in the works by playing me against the customer.  Or, he may just be lying.
I will never purposely screw one of my employees - not even for a good customer.  But, if that employee insists on screwing himself, and he enlists the aid of my customer to do it, I just get out of his way.

I'll give you an example of what happens when I don't:  One of my customers called me and asked for a certain person for his outage.  The employee was already working at another job.  I told the customer he wasn't available.  An hour later, the same customer called me back and told me that he had talked to my guy, who told him that he was going to be free in time to go to that job.  What he failed to tell him was that he was going to drag up on his current job, which had about two weeks left until scheduled completion, to make himself available.
The outage lasted 21 days.  Because I refused to assign him to it, he didn't drag up.  He continued another 5 weeks right where he was.
My company would have lost five weeks worth of billings (over $40,000.00) if he had left one job to go to the other.  For all he knew, he would have made only one week's more pay to make that jump.  In reality, he would have lost three weeks' worth.  Either way, the company would have lost any revenue from his original assignment, and would still have been able to staff the other without him jumping ship.  The person who actually filled that job would have lost the chance to work altogether for that three week period.
Aside from the loss of revenue (and loss of pay to him as it turned out) both he and the company would have lost a lot of traction with the customer that he was so willing to abandon.  As it is, the company now looks bad to the customer who wanted him, and it is all because he lied about his availability.
That is bad business all around.

He used to make around $100k or better (not including per diem) when he worked for us.  I don't know what he is making now, but he isn't working any outages at that site where he thought he had an inside track.  So, who gained by his going behind my back?

If you put what YOU want in front of what is good for the company and your fellow employees, it doesn't matter how technically competent and qualified you think you are.  We have no use for people who do that, and we shed ourselves of them as soon as possible.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #22 on: Dec 20, 2011, 09:27 »
I may have made your point for you, but I was straight forward and told as many sides of the story as I know.  You keep everything mysterious until someone has something to say that doesn't fit your mold, then you all of a sudden come up with some new info.  Maybe you are telling the full truth, but trustworthy good people don't usually treat others like that.

I've seen what happens to some of the good techs by the way (that actually stay in the biz), most get recognized by the plant they work at and get put into a higher paying job or year round thing. 

You are still acting like you and your company are the only type of machine going on out there.   All companies and all recruiters are not made equally.  You are still talking about your experiences like the whole inudstry works like yours does.  I have a hard time believing you are really that ignorant.  I think you like to win arguments and prove points, but so far everything you've told me is from one slice of the pie, and nothing new.   There are many more slices your aren't considering it seems since your ax only grinds one way.  Give me some new info please or a fresh perspective.

If I worked for one company that made me alot of money and was very loyal to me like it seems your company is, I wouldn't "drag up" or try to wiggle my way in, I would be loyal to that company.  I just haven't seen that company come down the road yet.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #23 on: Dec 20, 2011, 09:57 »
Gimme a break!
My posts are too long as it is.  I couldn't possibly tell it all in one screed.
And believe me when I tell you that I feel your pain.  I was getting shafted all over while you were still in the Navy cleaning up all the mistakes I made before I got out.  Only difference is that there were a LOT more companies playing cutthroat with us back in the 80's and I didn't realize for a while that I could have played them better than I did.
But for now, I have to admit that I don't work for Bartlett or DZ and I do my best not to treat people as unfairly as I was being treated.  With that, I also have to add that it was usually the site, and not Bartlett or Numanco or any of the others who was screwing me.
Just look at the newest post on the board today.  Remind you of anything?  Going to work an outage, even as a returnee, only to find that you are sweating it out in the Drywell while some light duty commando is getting the same pay to smear clipboards at access, and then getting laid of first because you aren't related to any house techs....  that has always sucked.  Having an RPM keep you for three extra days (no OT) just so you could miss the start of another outage.  That sucks too.

The flip side is that I can afford to be more fair to my crew because they (mostly) aren't looking to stick it in my back the minute after I go to war for one of them.  It just gave me a clearer picture of what the recruiters are facing.  Loyalty has to go both ways.  All I'm saying is that maybe they would stop lying to you if it weren't necessary for them to lie to get you to do what they need you to do.

Just like I only have one perspective (my own) to see things from, so does anyone else.  Your last paragraph above would seem to be just plain obvious, but it seems to have eluded a small percentage of my workforce.  Even though I don't make promises I can't keep, they accuse me of holding out on them.  While I am trying to get every one of them a fair shot at maximum work, there are still a few who think they can do better by cutting me out of the loop.  And I really do try to match people with the jobs they prefer as well as the customers who request them.  It just doesn't always work to their benefit or the company's for that to happen.
It is best for the company that I take care of the people.  It is best for the people that I take care of the company.  The company understands that.  It is the people who seem not to be able to figure that out.
Maybe it is just whipped dog syndrome.  Out of the entire list of people on my desk, the only ones who manage to totally screw themselves, their co-workers, and the company are the ones who used to be HP's for Bartlett and the like.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Outages and returnees
« Reply #24 on: Dec 21, 2011, 08:56 »
Good post.  My only problem with your info was your pointed negative comments at people who try to make their own way.  Like I said before, all companies are not created equal.  It sounds like if I worked for your company I wouldn't have to work around you like some other companies.  I have worked for a small company that was straight up and good to me, and I was straight up with them, but no big ones.  The bigger ones look at people like all they are are big dollar signs.  Remember the bugs bunny cartoon where those two dudes are in the boat and they are looking at each other like pieces of food (mirage)?  That reminds of the way B and A picture people.  At least I know where they are coming from.

I wish it was different but in my experience working for the best deal for me using all avenues of approach has maximized my $$ and $$-per-time worked over the last 6 years.  And all the networking involved helped me make even more contacts compounding the benefit.  Like a house tech friend of mine moved to a new plant and got a supervisor position.  A friend of mine was working there and since they both knew me they said "we need to get that guy here, call him".  So I was contacted by my buddy with the supervisor's blessing.  That type of thing helps, and it wasn't started with B or A.

There is the negative of course that B and A look at me as more of a free agent so they aren't looking to do me any favors, but they don't try to guilt me into doing a job I don't really want to do either, silver lining. 

For me, so far, this approach has benefited me.  I have talked to "loyalists" who have benifited from the other approach also, so there is the other side of the coin and I can see that it has possibilities too.

 


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