Just some regrets from my time in the service.

[maltheopia]

So. In case anyone cares, I would describe myself as a thoroughly average sailor. Did 3.5-3.6 in the pipeline. However, this was after the period of time people said that nuclear standards have gone down. My ego compels me to disagree, but considering how hard I got rolled in UT's EE programs the first two semesters (this is where the B's and C's came from, dropping me to a 2.9 which I've had to slowly recover to a 3.6 as of today) I am inclined to agree. Fleet time wasn't much more exception. Couple of EPs, mostly MPs. Surface nuke. Got RO and useless pewter pins six month on board, coasted the rest of the time with no real leadership positions and useless collateral duties like TPO, Rx DC maintenance-style guy, MGS, etc.. I got removed from watchstanding a couple of times due to poor CTE scores. Left the Navy, went to University of Texas at Austin, got accepted into the EE program. Which I cheerfully admit that I didn't deserve, I was a C-student in highschool and an SAT coaster; had to take it again though.

I'd say my biggest regret was not using the time more wisely and getting more quals and leadership positions. I totally had an attitude of 'this is just to help me grease the skids for commercial power generation, my life will REALLY start once I go to college' the whole time and my whole career in it was to get s**t done as quickly as possible and then loaf. Like, I was stupid enough not to take calculus classes on board even though some of my friends were because I 'knew' that I'd have to relearn it all over again anyway. Which not only made things unnecessarily hard but also was a complete waste of time so I could do... what? Play D&D? Watch football? Enjoy movies?

I guess what I'm saying is, even for FTN people who have a definite plan when you get out, don't waste the time in there. When you get out, pumping your resume and getting knowledge/experience literally costs money and if you're doing a serious career or education you just plain don't have the time.

Damn, why didn't I finish my RT qualification... I had everything I needed but the RO board. And then I sat on it for four months until terminal leave. Dammit...

[Starkist]

Join a utility and do something about your regrets. 

[Samabby]

This is a good first step, now make the changes needed for a successful future. Good luck, son.

[SpaceJustice]

You should re-enlist.

[DLGN25]

It sounds to me like your division leadership were lacking in not putting a boot up your butt.  Some people are motivated, others need a little motivation.  Perhaps times have changed, but in my time, if you did not make it, your life was miserable and limited.

If you really did not make it, you could be assured, your next duty station was not a place you really wanted to go to.

[LaFeet]

All the kids that worked for me will tell you that I never encouraged them to stay in.  I always asked them what they wanted to do and challenged them to meet those goals.

As a result I know 5 of 6 that stated they were the 6 and out who are now Senior Chiefs or Master Chiefs.   Me.... I never played the political game....even aced the E7 exam a few times... retired as an E6. 

I wish I had gotten advanced, but I do know that I challenged myself and I am proud of what I accomplished.

As for the needs of the navy....they can no longer touch me as I am way past the 30 year point now.....

Seems like you know what went wrong,  now fix it....

And thanks for your service- ET1(SS) retired

[hoopercj]

It sounds to me like your division leadership were lacking in not putting a boot up your butt.  Some people are motivated, others need a little motivation.  Perhaps times have changed, but in my time, if you did not make it, your life was miserable and limited.

If you really did not make it, you could be assured, your next duty station was not a place you really wanted to go to.

It seems to me that he did make it so far as he accomplished all that he needed to while in the navy. While he certainly didn't make the most of his time, he appearantly met all the required milestones for a naval operator. Nowhere is it mandated that someone qualify RT (surface), or PPWS, or take college courses while they're in the navy.... and in fact if it was mandated it probably would end in the ultimate degredation of the whole qualification process for those watchstations.

In any case, it happens all too often that people get out with what seems like these very regrets. For anyone reading this who doesn't know what to make of it, the sage advice here is to don't just do the minimum and to think ahead to when you get out of the navy. Waiting until "you're done qualfying" to start working on a degree, for example, ends up  with you being in 4 or 5 years and realizing that you've been qualifying SOMETHING or taking a "short break" for the entire time.

[rlbinc]

No mercy, no quarter, off to the dungeon.

[Fermi2]

You should re-enlist.

LMAO!

[DLGN25]

It seems to me that he did make it so far as he accomplished all that he needed to while in the navy. While he certainly didn't make the most of his time, he appearantly met all the required milestones for a naval operator. Nowhere is it mandated that someone qualify RT (surface), or PPWS, or take college courses while they're in the navy.... and in fact if it was mandated it probably would end in the ultimate degredation of the whole qualification process for those watchstations.

In any case, it happens all too often that people get out with what seems like these very regrets. For anyone reading this who doesn't know what to make of it, the sage advice here is to don't just do the minimum and to think ahead to when you get out of the navy. Waiting until "you're done qualfying" to start working on a degree, for example, ends up  with you being in 4 or 5 years and realizing that you've been qualifying SOMETHING or taking a "short break" for the entire time.

It seems to me he was not exactly stellar in performing the minimum expected of him.

I got removed from watchstanding a couple of times due to poor CTE scores.

Buy maybe that is the norm now.

[hoopercj]

It seems to me he was not exactly stellar in performing the minimum expected of him.

Buy maybe that is the norm now.

i wouldn't say it's the norm, but on some of the surface ships at least the CTE tests get kind of rediculous. I know on the roosevelt at one point it was not uncommon for even the most proficient of operators to find themselves potentially facing this scenario. Beyond that though, One of the primary issues i have with the navy, and the biggest reason that i'm getting out after my current enlistment, is that (in my experience) there's always somebody in charge who thinks that making someone's life hell is the answer to creating motivation.

the original poster provided a constructive post, presumably for baby nukes, talking about what he could have done better with his time in the navy, and very few of the replies to his post added anything useful to the topic.

[maltheopia]

You should re-enlist.

Ha! Now there's an idea. Probably not, though. I still like commercial power generation and I enjoyed watchstanding and drills; I just hated all of the ancillary stuff that went with the Navy like deployments and cleaning stations. But I think that too big of a time gap has elapsed and I'm already in my junior year of college. I don't think I'm cut out for military service, especially military leadership. I can easily see myself as being the next Captain Ricks, for people who have read Sum of All Fears.

It seems to me he was not exactly stellar in performing the minimum expected of him.

Buy maybe that is the norm now.

The whole CTE score thing is a whole 'nuther can of worms I don't want to get into too much. I will say though that I thought that at least on surface ships the tests are unnecessarily difficult and that I think that graders lean harder on FNGs and out-of-divisional people than people who are 'in the plant'. Not that I particularly blame them, though. I strongly think that CTEs should have actual consequences to them yet there is a grey area as far as grading is concerned. I can tell you right now that 3.6 work can be leaned on enough to be 3.2 work, 3.2 to 2.7, and so on. And I also don't think that this is necessarily bad or shady, because there are some people who think that getting one immediate action wrong in the 'First Casualty' should get you to fail the whole question and other people who think as long as the rest of it is spot-on you should get half-credit.

But anyway, that's not what I was trying to get at. I did want to give my perspective on someone who viewed themselves as 'too cool for this s**t'. You're not that cool and you're not that smart. I certainly wasn't.

[HeavyD]

The NPTM (Nuclear Program Training Manual) had (not sure if it is still in there) a statement that directed tests be graded for understanding.  The blurb also included the statement that the answer key was to be utilized as a guide and was not the be-all-end-all as far as answering a question.

Now, having said that, the quarterly visits by the SNPMTT (Surface Nuclear Power Mobile Training Team, think Squadron for sub guys) had our Reactor Training staff grading the CTEs by the answer key only.  If it wasn't on the key and it was correct, too bad.  To add to that, some of the guys and gals we had in RT were not the sharpest tools in the shed.  Some of the divisions used RT just like any other cross-divisional billet, simply as a way of moving their dead weight or problem children into someone else's house.  That, however, is a topic for another post.

As to why their is an apparent lack of compliance with the source document concerning CTEs (notice I said apparent   ), I do not have an answer nor has anyone been able to provide an answer.  CTEs and their worth as far as assessing the effectiveness of your training program are, like many other things, only as good as the effort put into them.  I can say, based on past experience, that a department wide sense of "tunnel vision" can develop around CTE performance.  I have seen a Reactor Dept become so focused on getting as much training "completed and documented" and focus on CTE scores that the performance of the plant tasks (overhaul and maintenance during a refueling) seemed to become 2nd or 3rd fiddle.  That may actually be an indictment against a single organization instead of the program as a whole though, so take it with a grain of salt.

Again, observations about things past and fairly present.

[DLGN25]

Perhaps I was a bit to hard.  In my day 66-72, there was no training division, at least on Bainbridge, it was not there, but then again, with only two plants, we were much smaller an operation.

In any event, it looks like I got out well before the BS, or should I say before even more BS.

[Starkist]

CTE scores. Hah... Theres a good start to fixing the NNPP. Don't send people to "retire at sea" to training department.  
 
*Braced for smites*

Training department was mostly a joke on my ship, E9 (refuse to call that excrement a "Chief") getting masted, shady scoring of tests, compromising of tests, etc etc. Id be dishonest to say I didnt "capitalize" on some of that, but everyone did.  And I do mean EVERYONE (Except a certain genius level Lt.), from the nubliest nub all the way up the chain.  


edit: cross threading, I apologize.

[GLW]

.....I'd say my biggest regret was not using the time more wisely and getting more quals and leadership positions. I totally had an attitude of 'this is just to help me grease the skids for commercial power generation, my life will REALLY start once I go to college' the whole time and my whole career in it was to get s**t done as quickly as possible and then loaf. Like, I was stupid enough not to take calculus classes on board even though some of my friends were because I 'knew' that I'd have to relearn it all over again anyway. Which not only made things unnecessarily hard but also was a complete waste of time so I could do... what? Play D&D? Watch football? Enjoy movies?

I guess what I'm saying is, even for FTN people who have a definite plan when you get out, don't waste the time in there. When you get out, pumping your resume and getting knowledge/experience literally costs money and if you're doing a serious career or education you just plain don't have the time.....

It seems to me that he did make it so far as he accomplished all that he needed to while in the navy. While he certainly didn't make the most of his time, he appearantly met all the required milestones for a naval operator. Nowhere is it mandated that someone qualify RT (surface), or PPWS, or take college courses while they're in the navy.... and in fact if it was mandated it probably would end in the ultimate degredation of the whole qualification process for those watchstations......

Why resurrect this thread?!?!?

Well, it's 0539 EST,...

and these posts highlight what I have tried to tell an awful lot of folks regardless of all the "best of the best of the best" hype the USN still puts into the heads of NNPP candidates;

the NNPP was the easiest job I have ever had,..

it's all laid out for you,...

every step of the way, whether it be A school, nuke school, advancement in rate, advancement as a PO, etc., there is a complete bibliography and success path already put together for you, all you have to do is;

show up on time or earlier,...

do what you're told when you're told,...

don't skate out early,...

easy, peazy, lemon squeezy,...

[MacGyver]

Why resurrect this thread?!?!?

Well, it's 0539 EST,...

and these posts highlight what I have tried to tell an awful lot of folks regardless of all the "best of the best of the best" hype the USN still puts into the heads of NNPP candidates;

the NNPP was the easiest job I have ever had,..

it's all laid out for you,...

every step of the way, whether it be A school, nuke school, advancement in rate, advancement as a PO, etc., there is a complete bibliography and success path already put together for you, all you have to do is;

show up on time or earlier,...

do what you're told when you're told,...

don't skate out early,...

easy, peazy, lemon squeezy,...