Posts On This Site

[maha556677]

This is my first time on this site and Jesus Christ this is ridiculous. I can barely scroll through posts without being interrupted by snobby remarks about a letter misplaced or something said grammatically incorrect. You people are supposed to be helpful and not bash people for spelling and grammar mistakes. Seriously. I think they understand how knowledgeable and experienced you are; this is probably the reason they chose this site. These are serious questions that are, in return, meant to be answered seriously. This is a forum, not the LSAT. Just answer these kids' questions, trolls!

[Rennhack]

 

[Frankie Love]

Freedom of speech bro.

Go away if you don't like it here.

[Rennhack]

Frank, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell people to go away.

[UncaBuffalo]

This is my first time on this site and...this is ridiculous. I can barely scroll through posts without being interrupted by snobby remarks about a letter misplaced or something said grammatically incorrect. You people are supposed to be helpful and not bash people for spelling and grammar mistakes. Seriously. I think they understand how knowledgeable and experienced you are; this is probably the reason they chose this site. These are serious questions that are, in return, meant to be answered seriously. This is a forum, not the LSAT. Just answer these kids' questions, trolls!

So, I put off posting for 24 hours...to make sure I wasn't just feeding a troll...

...but I came to the conclusion that maha has hit the nail on the head.


We do need to cut the new posters more slack...whether that be not nitpicking their spelling and grammar...or not immediately screaming "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION!"


Let's visualize NukeWorker as a large retail establishment.  If we want new customers to do business with us, we do not hire greeters to :
1.  Criticize the way the new customers look, sound, and walk.
or
2.  Tell them, "Find it yourself" when they ask where the products are located (even if we spent lots of time and money hanging signs on each aisle that list the products...and have signs pointing towards the very place that this new customer is asking about...)


Anyway, I think we do need to make a conscious effort to cut new posters some slack.  Maybe make a rule that NO negative comments can be made to anyone with less than 10 posts?   (And then...shred them on post number 11, if they are still clueless!    )

[HydroDave63]

Let's visualize NukeWorker as a large retail establishment.  If we want new customers to do business with us, we do not hire greeters to :
1.  Criticize the way the new customers look, sound, and walk.
or
2.  Tell them, "Find it yourself" when they ask where the products are located (even if we spent lots of time and money hanging signs on each aisle that list the products...and have signs pointing towards the very place that this new customer is asking about...)

Or, we can visualize NukeWorker as the highest search result for "nuclear jobs" or similar search terms, with the added bonus of a large discussion Forum buffet.

IIRC, advertisers are the largest single revenue stream for the website. Those advertisers spend good money to advertise the jobs they need to fill with the highest quality candidates. Candidates that can: 1) successfully send a readable resume or navigate that company's HR website to apply 2) Pass the necessary written exams to perform the job advertised 3) Pass the FFD testing and background check(s) required in the position and 4) be trainable in that position.

So, with that in mind, what factor do the majority of the postings/posters receiving criticism early on possess? That's right, FAILing one or more of the points listed above. And what would our advertising HR Manager see on a random grab of Forum threads? Questions on "how to beat urinalysis", "how few questions do I need to have right on a POSS exam", "why won't XXXXX company call me back, they must suck", "I get out of the Navy in 3 years (or 5 days), who here can find me a suh-weet 6 figure job at the plant of my choice", etc.  If we clear our mind for a moment and put ourselves in the shoes of the HR manager with a limited amount of recruiting dollars, would you take a chance on a site peppered with those topics and visitors, or take the safe way out with indeed, energycentral or the other sites?

On the other hand, there is probably a happy medium to be found. I have a hunch that a fair number of us 'hey-snowflake-go-search' members wouldn't bodycheck as much if there was some way that the new posters HAD to perform a search prior to posting. Instead, the seagull posters fly in, squawk loudly, see what they can peck out of the Forum picnic basket, squawk indignantly and crap all over on the way out. Just like trying to fish near Humboldt, only without the delicious Dungeness crab to show for it!

[UncaBuffalo]

I've got no problem with hammering the bozos who want NukeWorker to help them beat FFD.

As for the rest of the new posters, I just think we chase away a lot of good people because we don't give them a chance to acclimate.  Most of us don't like text-speak in the posts...but we have to give the newbies a chance to see that on their own, instead of just hammering them straight out of the chute.  Maybe the non-searching newbies are 'seagulls' who would become too much of a problem if we didn't have our current shoot-on-sight policy...but I think most of them would figure it out after a few days.  I'm not asking anyone to spoonfeed the posters who obviously haven't done any homework.  I'm just asking that we restrain ourselves from being rude in the open forums until new members have a chance to figure out the basics...

[UncaBuffalo]

IIRC, advertisers are the largest single revenue stream for the website.

..and there is NO way that less site-traffic is a good thing to the advertisers, right?

[Frankie Love]

if you don't like it here.

Having a bad day Rennhack? I said if you don't like it here. Christ, I have seen posts worse than what I said get props big time. Go after the real clowns next time.

And...it's still free speech. What...I can't voice my own opinion? I paid my money to become a member to get information from the site, stay in touch with those who work in the industry which I have been a member for more than thirty years and other reasons. I didn't pay to become a member of your "business". I have a right to express my opinions and I also have a right to not "support" your "business". Not what I signed up for and you should note that in the fine print next time. "By joining web site you are posting in support of my business and the business of nuclear" The guy was out of line and making huge generalizations and you over reacted. Sorry Rennhack, didn't want to piss off the almighty Oz.

[Frankie Love]

I meant that comment in a nice way...

[GLW]

I meant that comment in a nice way...

emoticons frankie,....

always the emoticons (or lack thereof),....

[ski2313]

And...it's still free speech. What...I can't voice my own opinion?

Of course you can.. but when Rennhack objects, at his own place of business, and when your free speech may be a detriment to his business, then he can toss ya out       Of course you're welcome to all the free speech you want at your own website.

I have no opinion one way or the other on this.. just pointing out the reality of it. I have some friends who own an online business  that is quite large with a very busy forum, and they have been successful over the years in taking the "free-speechers" to court for harassment, among other things... I'm sure it's kind of a sobering feeling having the police show up while you're tapping away on your computer at home. Not implying anything one way or the other. Just pointing out that "free speech" on the internet does have it's limits.

OK... off soapbox. Commence noobie bashing. 

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Having a bad day Rennhack? I said if you don't like it here. Christ, I have seen posts worse than what I said get props big time. Go after the real clowns next time.

And...it's still free speech. What...I can't voice my own opinion? I paid my money to become a member to get information from the site, stay in touch with those who work in the industry which I have been a member for more than thirty years and other reasons. I didn't pay to become a member of your "business". I have a right to express my opinions and I also have a right to not "support" your "business". Not what I signed up for and you should note that in the fine print next time. "By joining web site you are posting in support of my business and the business of nuclear" The guy was out of line and making huge generalizations and you over reacted. Sorry Rennhack, didn't want to piss off the almighty Oz.

From one of my favorite pages; http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,4700.0.htm Forum rules

Freedom of speech
Freedom of speech, the liberty to speak and otherwise express oneself and one's opinions. Like freedom of the press which pertains to the publication of speech. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution bars the federal government from 'abridging the freedom of speech'.

Although speech is freer in the United States than in many societies, federal and state laws do restrict many kinds of expression. Some kinds of speech regarded as damaging to individual interests (e.g., libel and slander...See Rule #7) are limited primarily by the threat of tort action; other forms of speech (e.g., obscenity...See Rule #6) are restricted by law because they are regarded as damaging to society as a whole. Speech that is regarded as disruptive of public order has long been beyond protection (e.g., 'fighting words' that cause a breach of the peace or false statements that cause general panic ...See Rule #4). The government also limits speech that threatens it directly; although sedition laws are rarely prosecuted in the United States, such rationales as a danger to 'national security' have been invoked to silence criticism of or opposition to the government.

Actually Frankie, you paid to use the Gold Member areas of this site. 
That's it, the rest of the site is free for ALL to use.    (See what I did there?)   

[DSO]

This is my first time on this site and Jesus Christ this is ridiculous. I can barely scroll through posts without being interrupted by snobby remarks about a letter misplaced or something said grammatically incorrect. You people are supposed to be helpful and not bash people for spelling and grammar mistakes. Seriously. I think they understand how knowledgeable and experienced you are; this is probably the reason they chose this site. These are serious questions that are, in return, meant to be answered seriously. This is a forum, not the LSAT. Just answer these kids' questions, trolls!

"Jesus Christ"?? How about I interrupt you for the unneeded use of the Lords name in vain?

[GLW]

Let's visualize NukeWorker as a large retail establishment.  If we want new customers to do business with us, we do not hire greeters to :
1.  Criticize the way the new customers look, sound, and walk.
or
2.  Tell them, "Find it yourself" when they ask where the products are located (even if we spent lots of time and money hanging signs on each aisle that list the products...and have signs pointing towards the very place that this new customer is asking about...)

A love ya unc but NW.com is hardly a retail establishment for the OP, the only folks that visual applies to are GM's who pay to play, and the occasional user who pays for advertising.

For the OP, NW is more akin to a free, all you can eat buffet,...

Some of them come through the door, look about for a moment or two and then yell out to the other diners "Does anybody here know where the banana pudding is?"

Then, if one of the voluntarily paying diners has the nerve to look up from his table and respond with "Take a second or two to look for it yourself we're busy over here!" the OP and like minded folks retort with, "If I wanted to earn something for myself I would not have come here looking for a freebie you indolent selfish slob! The sign says free! It's not my problem you are an idiot and actually help pay for this stupid place! If it ain't free, if it ain't ALL free, don't bother inviting us in!!! And, if my "illiterate beer gut" spreading out between my "wife beater spelling" and my "cut off shorts punctuation" is only found to be somewhat less offensive than my "screw the search feature toe jam" flaking off of my "spoon feed me flip flopped" feet, well, too bad for you bucko!! I'm here, I'm eating and I'm not even bothering to pick up a clean plate for seconds, and watch as I sneeze right past the glass sneeze shield!!!"

The regular guests, the ones with manners, both paying and not, begin to come around less often,...

That includes the ones too quiet to speak up, but grateful that a few will insist on good manners in this free buffet of industry insight,...

Folks do get tired of reading the same old question posted over and over and over and over,...

They get even more tired of answering them, not answered because, well really, why should the give a darn users around here be expected to keep typing multiple paragraph answers to the same question over and over and over?

And if, they retort with "look it up", they run a 50-50 chance of getting slammed,...

None of the sampling of questions listed below, all asked within the last two maybe three years were ever answered, well, not answered in the OP's thread, just somewhere else, sometime else, and the folks who knew where don't care to answer much anymore,...

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,17941.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,27877.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,24455.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23079.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,2411.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,33631.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,15709.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,18473.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,21514.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,25711.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,33133.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,27174.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23577.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,27311.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23765.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,26830.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,24841.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,24822.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23326.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,26184.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,34960.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,33949.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,34131.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23971.0.html

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,34056.0.html

..and there is NO way that less site-traffic is a good thing to the advertisers, right?

It's been over four years since the "Most OnLine Ever" record was set on 03-17-2008,...

I'm just saying,...

almost forgot,...(sic)

[thenukeman]

 I do not think most Nukeworkers are English majors and really do not care about a misspelled word or poor grammar as long as the content is respectful. I always have LESS respect for a person that brings a misspelling or a improper use of grammar. I agree with Maha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frankie Love]

emoticons frankie,....

Word! Lesson learned. In fact, I will avoid the firestorm and not make the same mistake. I actually made the comment in passing never thinking it would create such havoc. It's Mike's site and I am just passing through. No disrespect Mike. So now I'll go back to my Obama trashing...Detroit Tiger's loving self.

[Rennhack]

No disrespect Mike.

None taken.

[Rennhack]

As you can see, this is a hot topic.  Both camps have valid points.

I hate it when I go to http://forum.coppermine-gallery.net/, the support board for our FREE photo gallery software.  Every time someone asks questions, they get beaten down... just like new users here.  I don't like it.  Not one bit.

So... what to do about it.  I have already ASKED nicely that folks don't do it.  Some folks have really toned it down, and I appreciate that.  And I always peer coach people when I think its WAY over the line.

What to do when they won't be nice?  Well, that's when I ask them to take their momma's advice and "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all."  I'd rather have 20 unanswered topics, than 1 topic where NUKEWORKER becomes known as a site with a bunch of A-holes.

What to do when that doesn't work, and the old timers still abuse the new kids?  Well, that's when I have to make a judgment call.  Do I BAN the old timers?  Do I ignore them and hope that the help they provide is off-setting the negative posts?  If I banned all the old timers, this forum would be dead.  A dead forum is even worse than one filled with trolls.

So that's where this little thought exercise ends.  The forum ends up as a home for trolls, instead of dead. Long live the Trolls.

I'd pay each of the Trolls $36/yr if they stop giving the new guys shit, and actually take the time to help them.  Copy paste links to all the FAQ's.  A link to the search engine.  Suggestions on how to find the answer.  Anything helpful, instead of blasting them immediately, and every time.

The worst part is that being a troll is contagious.  User B sees that User C is having fun being a jackass, and he wants to be cool too.  Then our troll population just doubled.

It's 4:15 am.  I'm going to bed; I have to get up in 2 hours to babysit a website full of adults that don't know how to behave in public.

[RDTroja]

It's 4:15 am.  I'm going to bed; I have to get up in 2 hours to babysit a website full of adults that don't know how to behave in public.

That pretty much sums it up.

Like most debates (at least those not involving certain members of this site  ) there are valid points on both sides. There is no point in being rude, but I understand there is a bit of inclination toward exasperation when the same question is repeatedly asked in different syntax. Maybe we need (Deja Vu alert!) a read-and-acknowledge requirement prior to posting that provides the etiquette expectations... you can't post until you have at least lied about reading the rules. Maybe that would not do anything. Perhaps an 'A-hole of the Week' award, except that some members (or non-members) would find pride in holding that particular status.

But I think we already have an answer. There is a part of the site where the gloves come off, so why not insist that the other places they stay on? It may take more policing than you (Mike) are willing to support, but why can't posts that violate rules be deleted and unrepentant violators be temporarily banned?

Be Helpful, Be Quite or Be Gone.

Yes, we may lose a little expertise from those that won't play nicely. I don't think that is too much to give up if we get better help in the long run for more people. I think the result would be more people helped even if certain specific advice is less easy to get. Maybe wider vs. deeper is not so bad if this site can avoid a reputation of being a home for disgruntled bastards with a lot of knowledge but no social skills.

Or maybe not. It is early in the morning and my caffeine has not fully kicked in yet.

[Dave Warren]

How about you pick a few unopinionated (yes, it is a word) "experts" to answer the newbies questions? If those experts need assistance, they can throw it out into the alligator pit of Gold members. This way, the Nukeworker greeters (for lack of a better word) can start the process and you can keep the website civil from the start.